There is a post running that @CG_SBCrumb started:
Minimum Details Required:
Date of TW:
Your Guild’s GP
Opposing team’s GP:
# of my guild members who joined:
# of opposing guild members who joined:
We have consistently been getting ridiculous matchups since my last post on here. It's really disheartening to see that no one who is capable of doing something about this cares. At this point more than enough data has been collected. This is another example of how something that is clearly broken is not going to get fixed in this game.
Here is my guild's previous match. 250 mil vs 295 mil. guess who won? We have pretty much the same thing going on for this current TW. I have come to despise playing these because CG refuses (let's call it what it is) to give us a level playing field. As an officer, I don't even know what to tell my guildmates anymore. This has been going on for at least 18 months. Please either fix this already or put your big boy pants on and admit that you have no interest in doing so.
How is this fair??? Ok, forget fair, how is this RIGHT???
We are a low GP Guild, new players trying to make it in the SWGOH World, they have a 16m advantage, 5 ULT GL's,
The W1ndu Cleaner5 avg per joined player 1m
X一Kamino avg pr player 1.3m
Looks close...
Until you see this:
Maybe you could say they are not cheating, they are just exploiting the broken match making process to their advantage.
But either way, this just does not fill the guild players with much encouragement to continue playing!
"Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.
To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar."
PLEASE PLEASE LOOK AT THE TW MATCHING PROCESS
Your Guild’s GP: The W1ndu Cleaner5 = 47.7M
Opposing team’s GP: X一Kamino 63.7M
# of my guild members who joined: 36
# of opposing guild members who joined: 28
Date: 23 - 25 May 2021
and just to point out:
Zetas :: 206 vs 620
Ults :: 0 vs 5
GEARS
G11 :: 139 vs 197
G12 :: 101 vs 262
G12+1 :: 20 vs 47
G12+2 :: 6 vs 24
G12+3 :: 12 vs 56
G12+4 :: 3 vs 14
G12+5 :: 3 vs 23
G13 :: 25 vs 207
RELICS
Tier 2 :: 2 vs 12
Tier 3 :: 6 vs 39
Tier 4 :: 4 vs 33
Tier 5 :: 7 vs 57
Tier 6 :: 2 vs 9
Tier 7 :: 4 vs 42
Tier 0 :: 0 vs 5
Tier 1 :: 0 vs 9
Tier 8 :: 0 vs 1
MODS
6E mods :: 266 vs 642
10+ speed mods :: 549 vs 1594
15+ speed mods :: 122 vs 418
20+ speed mods :: 16 vs 90
25+ speed mods :: 0 vs 15
100+ off mods :: 189 vs 265
@BabyYoda_Windu. I am not dismissing your claim or anything like that, but you are aware you are misrepresenting the situation, right?
All of those values you are showing are the full numbers for the guild, not the numbers for the players who are actively playing.
This is not to say they dont need to look at matchmaking, especially when it comes to number of players joined. But it's not cheating, players are allowed to have lives and guilds are allowed not to require full participation.
Yes, I appreciate the full stats are for full guild...
But I am more concerned that they have 2 ULT GL's (that we can see) in the actual event and we're no where near that level...
Our Top 8 Arena Power: 144k, 136k, 125k, 110k, 107k, 105k, 104k, 100k
Their Top 8 Arena Power: 179k, 166k, 161K, 160k, 129k, 119k, 116k, 112k
Yes, there will always be those that don't/can't join but it is just really demoralizing when you know that there's ZERO chance...
Kyno just the fact that you are fighting our cause gives me hope!
I will amend my post for the bit added in frustration...
just so we are all aware, they are very unlikely to ever give any specific characters influence on matchmaking. so the number of GLs with or without ultimate is always something the players will have to deal with.
Yes, I appreciate the full stats are for full guild...
But I am more concerned that they have 2 ULT GL's (that we can see) in the actual event and we're no where near that level...
Our Top 8 Arena Power: 144k, 136k, 125k, 110k, 107k, 105k, 104k, 100k
Their Top 8 Arena Power: 179k, 166k, 161K, 160k, 129k, 119k, 116k, 112k
Yes, there will always be those that don't/can't join but it is just really demoralizing when you know that there's ZERO chance...
Kyno just the fact that you are fighting our cause gives me hope!
I will amend my post for the bit added in frustration...
just so we are all aware, they are very unlikely to ever give any specific characters influence on matchmaking. so the number of GLs with or without ultimate is always something the players will have to deal with.
Surely, if a matching process works based upon
"The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
and
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power."
Whilst the GL itself isn't called out, the GP Imbalance is obvious and looking at these 8 teams to me looks like both these two factors have failed... Clearly it would be worth investigating from each of the 8 which ones actually joined TW!
I know that on paper match ups can look heavily one sided in favour of Team A and then Team B wins, but I think that is the exception, and not the rule... I stand by that the match ups algorithm is flawed and needs a more in depth review. We had what appeared to be a fair match and we were stomped upon, that to me is just better tactics on their part.
All this post is meant to highlight is that we the players feel that part of the game is actually not working in a fair manner.
Yes, I appreciate the full stats are for full guild...
But I am more concerned that they have 2 ULT GL's (that we can see) in the actual event and we're no where near that level...
Our Top 8 Arena Power: 144k, 136k, 125k, 110k, 107k, 105k, 104k, 100k
Their Top 8 Arena Power: 179k, 166k, 161K, 160k, 129k, 119k, 116k, 112k
Yes, there will always be those that don't/can't join but it is just really demoralizing when you know that there's ZERO chance...
Kyno just the fact that you are fighting our cause gives me hope!
I will amend my post for the bit added in frustration...
just so we are all aware, they are very unlikely to ever give any specific characters influence on matchmaking. so the number of GLs with or without ultimate is always something the players will have to deal with.
Surely, if a matching process works based upon
"The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
and
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power."
Whilst the GL itself isn't called out, the GP Imbalance is obvious and looking at these 8 teams to me looks like both these two factors have failed... Clearly it would be worth investigating from each of the 8 which ones actually joined TW!
I know that on paper match ups can look heavily one sided in favour of Team A and then Team B wins, but I think that is the exception, and not the rule... I stand by that the match ups algorithm is flawed and needs a more in depth review. We had what appeared to be a fair match and we were stomped upon, that to me is just better tactics on their part.
All this post is meant to highlight is that we the players feel that part of the game is actually not working in a fair manner.
again, unless I am mistaken. those top 8 on both are based on who is in the guild and not who joined the match. (it is not specified in the post). so I dont think we can make that determination from the information stated in that post. "would be worth investigating" is such an understatement in this situation. it is a flawed comparison without that being accounted for.
so while many posts try to highlight this same sentiment, many times they use inaccurate representations of the matchup and that tends to skew the perception of what is going on.
this is not to say they shouldn't look into things and try to make improvements, just that many of these that seem to be "open and shut cases" are not necessarily the case.
thats not really the way this works, when they look at the analytics of this, they will look at everything, not just some individual rounds in question.
Yes, we would like them to look at everything and I think there's enough posts floating around the forums to warrant that. It is just getting more and more common to see this type of issue.
Maybe you @Kyno could create/combine an all encompassing thread that brings this to the right team's attention? Maybe we have not articulated it well enough to get the action required... This thread can then be closed
Once again, thank you to everyone that has contributed
Yes, we would like them to look at everything and I think there's enough posts floating around the forums to warrant that. It is just getting more and more common to see this type of issue.
Maybe you Kyno could create/combine an all encompassing thread that brings this to the right team's attention? Maybe we have not articulated it well enough to get the action required... This thread can then be closed
Once again, thank you to everyone that has contributed
This is already on the list of things they are going to look at.
I imagine the problem with TW isn't that there aren't issues to address or that the Development team of CG doesn't care about it. I imagine it's about resources.
TW got started and is running along since 2018 and it's bugged and everyone knows it but there were very recent massive overhauls to content in the following.:
Revamped Challenge Rancor
GAC revision
New GL
Bad Batch
Conquest
All of these take time, and right now, constant resources to keep balanced.
TW needs love - it's just not on a priority list that we know of. I would also appreciate, if possible, for someone to provide or point me to ANY concrete mathematics around How TW is setup.so that even if it can't be changed maybe we can mitigate the problems. I doubt the SDK released that Grand Ivory and Swgoh.gg use has any data but if anyone has poked about in it that would be great to confirm.
Finally - it would be nice if we could please get any feedback on this thread outside of players that there is an active ticket to look at this or not in production support.
I imagine the problem with TW isn't that there aren't issues to address or that the Development team of CG doesn't care about it. I imagine it's about resources.
TW got started and is running along since 2018 and it's bugged and everyone knows it but there were very recent massive overhauls to content in the following.:
Revamped Challenge Rancor
GAC revision
New GL
Bad Batch
Conquest
All of these take time, and right now, constant resources to keep balanced.
TW needs love - it's just not on a priority list that we know of. I would also appreciate, if possible, for someone to provide or point me to ANY concrete mathematics around How TW is setup.so that even if it can't be changed maybe we can mitigate the problems. I doubt the SDK released that Grand Ivory and Swgoh.gg use has any data but if anyone has poked about in it that would be great to confirm.
Finally - it would be nice if we could please get any feedback on this thread outside of players that there is an active ticket to look at this or not in production support.
@LightSideRules Expertly worded and a good summary of what we have received in the games and I think we are appreciative even if reading some of these TW comments it doesn't come across...
This is all I know:
"Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.
To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar."
As I understand it, TW is on the list, we just don't know where...
Thanks for your response - I think I read everything that has been posted in the last year around team wars and nearly everything that was not copy/paste available outside a paywall searchable via google.
The miss matches are real - the problem I'm seeing is if there is an algorithm doing what you are suggesting it is doing a really bad job - ESPECIALLY when you go above the 225GP for a guild. My guild gets teamed up against 280GP guilds and that's not rare. A lot of our members are players since the beginning and there is no way to shed useless characters that are leveled up and geared up from 4 years ago (CUP is a great example).
I've read about how things get weighted by win and loss streaks but the realty is this: Nobody has anything concrete. Potency vs Tenacity is far less vague and documented. Since TW takes place only on CG servers there isn't a way to test outside of the real thing by someone who is not already a CG partner. The reason I asked about the SDK is maybe there was something in there buried in the comments - I'm not a developer but I know enough to understand when I'm talking to one who isn't going waaay into the weeds.
Replies
Active GP 143,125,227
44 @ AVG 3.253m
vs
34 @ AVG 4.210m
As expected we were stomped
Minimum Details Required:
Date of TW:
Your Guild’s GP
Opposing team’s GP:
# of my guild members who joined:
# of opposing guild members who joined:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/182579/territory-war-matchmaker/p17
and see: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162893/dev-post-matchmaking-clarification-post-3-15/p1 for the Explanation on how TW Matching was Intended - THREAD CLOSED
Be good to combine the posts
Here is my guild's previous match. 250 mil vs 295 mil. guess who won? We have pretty much the same thing going on for this current TW. I have come to despise playing these because CG refuses (let's call it what it is) to give us a level playing field. As an officer, I don't even know what to tell my guildmates anymore. This has been going on for at least 18 months. Please either fix this already or put your big boy pants on and admit that you have no interest in doing so.
We are a low GP Guild, new players trying to make it in the SWGOH World, they have a 16m advantage, 5 ULT GL's,
The W1ndu Cleaner5 avg per joined player 1m
X一Kamino avg pr player 1.3m
Looks close...
Until you see this:
Maybe you could say they are not cheating, they are just exploiting the broken match making process to their advantage.
But either way, this just does not fill the guild players with much encouragement to continue playing!
@CG_SBCrumb @CG_Doja_Fett @Kyno
"Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.
To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar."
PLEASE PLEASE LOOK AT THE TW MATCHING PROCESS
Your Guild’s GP: The W1ndu Cleaner5 = 47.7M
Opposing team’s GP: X一Kamino 63.7M
# of my guild members who joined: 36
# of opposing guild members who joined: 28
Date: 23 - 25 May 2021
and just to point out:
Zetas :: 206 vs 620
Ults :: 0 vs 5
GEARS
G11 :: 139 vs 197
G12 :: 101 vs 262
G12+1 :: 20 vs 47
G12+2 :: 6 vs 24
G12+3 :: 12 vs 56
G12+4 :: 3 vs 14
G12+5 :: 3 vs 23
G13 :: 25 vs 207
RELICS
Tier 2 :: 2 vs 12
Tier 3 :: 6 vs 39
Tier 4 :: 4 vs 33
Tier 5 :: 7 vs 57
Tier 6 :: 2 vs 9
Tier 7 :: 4 vs 42
Tier 0 :: 0 vs 5
Tier 1 :: 0 vs 9
Tier 8 :: 0 vs 1
MODS
6E mods :: 266 vs 642
10+ speed mods :: 549 vs 1594
15+ speed mods :: 122 vs 418
20+ speed mods :: 16 vs 90
25+ speed mods :: 0 vs 15
100+ off mods :: 189 vs 265
My unsportsmanlike Comment Removed
All of those values you are showing are the full numbers for the guild, not the numbers for the players who are actively playing.
This is not to say they dont need to look at matchmaking, especially when it comes to number of players joined. But it's not cheating, players are allowed to have lives and guilds are allowed not to require full participation.
But I am more concerned that they have 2 ULT GL's (that we can see) in the actual event and we're no where near that level...
Our Top 8 Arena Power: 144k, 136k, 125k, 110k, 107k, 105k, 104k, 100k
Their Top 8 Arena Power: 179k, 166k, 161K, 160k, 129k, 119k, 116k, 112k
Yes, there will always be those that don't/can't join but it is just really demoralizing when you know that there's ZERO chance...
@Kyno just the fact that you are fighting our cause gives me hope!
I will amend my post for the bit added in frustration...
just so we are all aware, they are very unlikely to ever give any specific characters influence on matchmaking. so the number of GLs with or without ultimate is always something the players will have to deal with.
Surely, if a matching process works based upon
"The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
and
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power."
Whilst the GL itself isn't called out, the GP Imbalance is obvious and looking at these 8 teams to me looks like both these two factors have failed... Clearly it would be worth investigating from each of the 8 which ones actually joined TW!
I know that on paper match ups can look heavily one sided in favour of Team A and then Team B wins, but I think that is the exception, and not the rule... I stand by that the match ups algorithm is flawed and needs a more in depth review. We had what appeared to be a fair match and we were stomped upon, that to me is just better tactics on their part.
All this post is meant to highlight is that we the players feel that part of the game is actually not working in a fair manner.
again, unless I am mistaken. those top 8 on both are based on who is in the guild and not who joined the match. (it is not specified in the post). so I dont think we can make that determination from the information stated in that post. "would be worth investigating" is such an understatement in this situation. it is a flawed comparison without that being accounted for.
so while many posts try to highlight this same sentiment, many times they use inaccurate representations of the matchup and that tends to skew the perception of what is going on.
this is not to say they shouldn't look into things and try to make improvements, just that many of these that seem to be "open and shut cases" are not necessarily the case.
Yes 166k, (and most of their squads shown above are higher GP than our Best)
Yes 161K,
Not Sure 160k,
Yes 129k,
Yes 119k,
I was sort of hoping someone would look
thats not really the way this works, when they look at the analytics of this, they will look at everything, not just some individual rounds in question.
Same for my alt guild. Some horrible looking matches turn out just fine/competitive.
Maybe you @Kyno could create/combine an all encompassing thread that brings this to the right team's attention? Maybe we have not articulated it well enough to get the action required... This thread can then be closed
Once again, thank you to everyone that has contributed
This is already on the list of things they are going to look at.
We will have to wait and see what comes of that.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/182579/territory-war-matchmaker/p18
But as people are still reporting mismatches there, following CG's template (more or less) I thought it best to direct people that way.
TW got started and is running along since 2018 and it's bugged and everyone knows it but there were very recent massive overhauls to content in the following.:
All of these take time, and right now, constant resources to keep balanced.
TW needs love - it's just not on a priority list that we know of. I would also appreciate, if possible, for someone to provide or point me to ANY concrete mathematics around How TW is setup.so that even if it can't be changed maybe we can mitigate the problems. I doubt the SDK released that Grand Ivory and Swgoh.gg use has any data but if anyone has poked about in it that would be great to confirm.
Finally - it would be nice if we could please get any feedback on this thread outside of players that there is an active ticket to look at this or not in production support.
@LightSideRules Expertly worded and a good summary of what we have received in the games and I think we are appreciative even if reading some of these TW comments it doesn't come across...
This is all I know:
"Matchmaking seeks to create the most fair matchups, with two primary goals in mind:
The squad power of participating individuals in each guild should be near the same average power.
The strongest possible squads of both participating guilds should be near the same average power.
To achieve this, matchmaking uses multiple parameters.
As a primary consideration, matchmaking identifies the strongest characters/ships expected to be used by each participant in the Territory War and assigns a value to each roster. Then it looks for the single strongest squads and compares them to each other. Matchmaking then aggregates these criteria for the guild and finds the opponent that is most similar."
As I understand it, TW is on the list, we just don't know where...
There's loads more information on the following post:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/182579/territory-war-matchmaker#latest
Thank you for you contribution!
The miss matches are real - the problem I'm seeing is if there is an algorithm doing what you are suggesting it is doing a really bad job - ESPECIALLY when you go above the 225GP for a guild. My guild gets teamed up against 280GP guilds and that's not rare. A lot of our members are players since the beginning and there is no way to shed useless characters that are leveled up and geared up from 4 years ago (CUP is a great example).
I've read about how things get weighted by win and loss streaks but the realty is this: Nobody has anything concrete. Potency vs Tenacity is far less vague and documented. Since TW takes place only on CG servers there isn't a way to test outside of the real thing by someone who is not already a CG partner. The reason I asked about the SDK is maybe there was something in there buried in the comments - I'm not a developer but I know enough to understand when I'm talking to one who isn't going waaay into the weeds.