Thoughts on Raid rewards being competitive?
I'm one to think that raid rewards should not be competitive, you should never feel at odds with your guild members for doing well, but if they're soloing raids and making you miss chances at rewards because you can't solo start to finish like you need to wait for a specific phase for your best team to put in your best score, you might resent them for that. (note it's not about me, I can get 2nd even with a Kylo soloing because I have a team that can solo P1 at least, so inb4 any "git gud" remarks)
Vs TB where everyone gets the same rewards you're stoked if your guildmate is able to get lots of combat waves and complete special missions, it's to your benefit.
I think because of the competitive nature of raid rewards, is one of the reasons we're not getting another raid right off the bat, because GL's will destroy it or it'll be so hard that you need a GL to participate, taking away all that time developing the raid to be disposed of so quickly, and they'll get all the good rewards all the time.
If raid rewards were like TB rewards or simmed raid rewards, then everyone would be glad their guildmates can solo it or even if it's so hard only GL's can really do well in it, at least that way everyone gets rewards for their guildmate carrying them.
but as of right now, it'd almost be more fair to just make all raids simmable. HSTR if you have more than 1 SLKR should be simmable.
Vs TB where everyone gets the same rewards you're stoked if your guildmate is able to get lots of combat waves and complete special missions, it's to your benefit.
I think because of the competitive nature of raid rewards, is one of the reasons we're not getting another raid right off the bat, because GL's will destroy it or it'll be so hard that you need a GL to participate, taking away all that time developing the raid to be disposed of so quickly, and they'll get all the good rewards all the time.
If raid rewards were like TB rewards or simmed raid rewards, then everyone would be glad their guildmates can solo it or even if it's so hard only GL's can really do well in it, at least that way everyone gets rewards for their guildmate carrying them.
but as of right now, it'd almost be more fair to just make all raids simmable. HSTR if you have more than 1 SLKR should be simmable.
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If I work 2 hours day and my coworker works 10 hours/day, he should be paid more.
Same reason the person who 4/4's every combat mission in TB gets the same reward as the guy who only deployed in 1 phase. It's a guild effort, you should only feel resentment for guild members not pulling their weight, not for guild members exceeding everyone else.
It izzz what it izzzz
I’m just waiting for galactic legend Ani (podracer)
There is some merit to this at first, but it changes over time.
After awhile, the work analogy is more like:
There are more workers in the office than there is work to be done, so whoever arrives first in the morning gets paid $500, while the rest only get $10 for the day.
The best suggestion I’ve seen before (imo) are “damage tiers” linked to rewards.
If you score 20M+, you get prize box 1.
If you score between 10-20M, prize box 2.
Etc. Etc.
All 50 members could put in equal effort to all obtain box 1.
I like this idea, but when would they switch from a guild effort to an individual? Some guilds need everyone to contribute, some guilds have less contributors because of power differences, and then there are the guilds that need it.
This sounds better than the current system to me.
+1 to the idea of the OP about not causing resentment within the guild. Even things out.
That means v little to CG as their priority with something like this is the Economy.
Even Pit rewards being magnitudes better than HAAT speaks to this.
Rewards need touch-ups, not going to happen though
It's less about "what's fair" and more about "what's holding cg up from releasing another raid". I think the competitive nature of raid rewards paired with GL's destroying raid content are a big chunk of why we aren't getting a new raid.
You misspelled "Kylo"
This is a great idea. Also with this system we should be able to set how long the raid lasts.
Say it's 1 hour. So even if someone absolutely wrecks the tank, it'll still be there for a late comer to attack and get rewards.
But competitive rewards allow cg to have players continously spend on raid teams to remain competitive. Of course this only continues to the point until everyone can solo it. Then everyone that chooses to take the time get an equal chance at top rewards while those that choose not to participate get lower rewards.
Hpit and haat areata this point for most guilds now and there really isn't much of an issue. Newer players only need to build a couple teams and then they can solo if they want a shot at #1.
The sith raid will be there soon. Once most players have slkr or another solo team that comes out, then it'll be just like haat.
I personally don't have slkr but can usually reach top ten by doing a 40% of p1 run and then soloing p3. I'm still working on gas and jedi Luke requirements but if another toon comes out that makes a solo possible I would dump resources into it (though ftp since I don't spend money) to keep the good rewards.
But if the rewards were all the same then no one would work on any teams after the raid was beatable in a reasonable amount of time.
I don't think competitive rewards are really the problem. The issue I see with raids are now that the power creep has gotten so great that the raids last only minutes.
I think if they just made the raids available for 24hrs for everyone it would be a more welcome change. I like the goal of getting the highest score and think that those that put the effort in should be rewarded. But the rewards now are based on who logs in at a certain time.
So the fix I suggest is that the raid opens but instead of ending and a phase being locked when the total damage is reached by the guild it simply unlocks the next phase and then once a single player reaches that threshold, it locks that phase so you can still only do the max dmg. At the end of the two days you get the rewards based on your dmg. This would also remove the need for the 24hr join period.
If this were implemented I think the competitive rewards would be fine. Or rewards based on total damage so you have something to work towards.
The problem with this is, that two guilds with same number of participants could win very different amount of rewards (different prize boxes) for accomplishing the exact same goal: Killing the Sith triumvirate. The guild that has 50 people soloing it doesn't accomplish anything more than the guild that struggles to beat the raid. A dead triumvirate is a dead triumvirate and should be rewarded with the same amount of rewards for all guilds.
Was just going to say that. If you are the weak link in a guild and members are soloing the raid then enjoy the free gear. Want to place top it’s easy, don’t git gud, git kylo! Lol
Or go join a weaker gulf and be the whale in it and place 1. I’m sure they would love to have a whale in a weaker guild to help them beat sith raid if they are still unable to yet.
The big difference between raids and TB is that TB has incremental rewards and raids are all or nothing. Thus there is an incentive to keep improving your TB teams for everyone’s benefit until you get to the point of maxing stars, whereas once the guild can beat a raid there would be no additional incentive if not for the competitive reward structure.
Such new difficulty tiers could also provide fresh rewards, end-game gear as well as even a new toon to farm.
This way we can properly re-visit and enjoy the older raids and new rewards from it - we can make them relevant again, rather than just sim them like the old Rancor raids - seems like a waste of content if it isn't kept relevant and therefore never played.
Id also say the same for LS and DS battles - actually playing the battle instead of using a sim should give you better RNG for the better gear, or something that entices players to replay them and fully enjoy the game on an ongoing and recurring basis.
Just a thought.
We still need to work on teams for TB, TW, and GAC. Why would not needing to work on those raid teams be a problem? Do you think that since Rancor raid is simmable and new players don't need to work on teams to solo Rancor, that it's a problem? What about HAAT? Many players don't even bother attacking that one so they obviously don't need to work on the teams to solo HAAT.
To explain why competitive raid rewards ARE a problem, see the next quote.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the problem! Because HSTR rewards in the top 10 can give full gear pieces (My last finish was #2 and I got a full G12 and G12+ piece) the difference in rewards between top 10, and 11-50 are so ridiculously unbalanced. I've said more than once, if you look at how much GET it cost to buy the parts to make a full G12+ piece, and compared it to the difference between rank 10 and rank 11 prizes, the TB rewards PALE in comparison to the HSTR rewards.
Because of that you actually will progress FASTER by dropping into a lower guild where you can reliably get top 10 HSTR rewards, rather than the once a month TB payouts. CG has often said they want to move people of comparable strength into guilds together. Because of the competitive rewards structure of HSTR, it actually promotes members who cannot get top 10, but can do a considerable amount of damage, to actually move down in guilds. This should never be the case that you get more rewards from sandbagging.
Why is this a problem? One guild is struggling to beat HSTR and only the top 5 members might get the top prize box, meanwhile another guild is easily clearing the HSTR with 30 members able to hit that top prize box. The rewards match the effort, which is exactly what other people in this same thread are arguing as a reason to keep the current reward structure. The guild that's struggling to beat it gets the same amount of traya shards as the other guild who's easily clearing it (but let's be honest they don't need traya shards anymore if they're beating it easily). The only difference is the amount of resources that the advanced guild has spent developing the teams to do more damage. Shouldn't the higher investment reward a higher payout?
I think that either a reward box based on damage (with timed phases) would be a good option, or just let it be simmed with similar restrictions to PIT raid, and give everybody the rank 10 rewards so everyone has a shot at full G12 pieces. Because if they give rank 11+ rewards on a sim, guilds will all still run manually, because the reward difference is THAT much.
I think the below solution would be best. And I think it addresses most of the issues listed.
1. Make hstr and haat simable for guilds similar to pit. Ex enough people have trays and beaten x number of times.
2. For guilds that can sim the raid at the same time open up a personal raid for each member that can be completed with additional rewards that are based on how far you make it through. The rewards should be better overell than the current ones but the sim rewards could be bottom of the current raid along as you can get fully crafted pieces if you can do several million dmg. Say a chance at fully crafted for half the raid and a better chance at increments above that.
As long as the rewards are better combined then most will want to stay in guilds that can sim it once they have a big roster. It simply goes from a guild challenge to an individual one.
People actually have to earn the rewards so it is fair.
And cg still gets you to build towards slkr if you don't already have him for an easier solo.
And it gives us something to do and a challenge to those that don't already have a solo team.
Hey CG, wanna listen to your players for once?
Why? It's a guild event and both guilds accomplish exactly the same thing: They kill the triumvirate. That's the ultimate goal of the raid. One guild doesn't do more damage to the triumvirate than the other (SLKR killing Sion and/or DN on P4 is irrelevant). The triumvirate doesn't become "more dead" just because the total damage done by the participants is higher.
Therefore the guilds should have the same amount of rewards.
Any guild currently simming Pit should agree with this. Otherwise they have the option to still run it, but I wonder how many actually do.
Or how many would sim HAAT and Sith if they had the option?