So what exactly is the problem with Rose ... ?

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Stenun
651 posts Member
edited July 22
Can anyone explain to me - without being insulting, rude, dismissive, sexist or racist - a legitimate reason for the hatred some fans pour on Rose Tico in The Last Jedi or The Rise Of Skywalker?
I have genuinely never seen any legitimate reason for the the hatred, and even anger, that so many fans seem to have for this one character. I've seen racism aimed at her; I've seen sexism aimed at her; I've seen her dismissed with "she's just annoying" or "I just don't like her"; but not liking someone is different from hating her. And Rose isn't just "not liked", she's hated. Why? Nobody has ever shown me a legitimate reason for hating her so much.
So, please, enlighten me ... and please try to keep things pleasant. :)

Replies

  • TVF
    24356 posts Member
    Not sure why you think this will go any different.
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  • Stenun
    651 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Not sure why you think this will go any different.

    Hope.
  • TVF
    24356 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Not sure why you think this will go any different.

    Hope.

    I will counter with one word as well.

    Internet.
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  • Stenun
    651 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Not sure why you think this will go any different.

    Hope.

    I will counter with one word as well.

    Internet.

    I have hope even for the internet. :smiley:
  • Stenun
    651 posts Member
    I could be wrong, but it seems many fans do not understand her purpose in the story, so they think she is irrelevant and just there as filler. Its incorrect, but seems to be the only non-terrible explanation for hate.

    It's certainly a more hopeful reason than any I have yet seen. But I still hope we can hear from someone who hates her. I mean, I won't agree with their argument as I clearly don't hate her, but I just want to understand why so many do.
    And not agreeing is fine. We can not agree and remain civil. As the old saying goes, it would be very boring if everyone liked the same things. :-)
  • LordDirt
    1430 posts Member
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  • LordDirt
    1430 posts Member
    ykndz4jl0l10.png
  • Stenun
    651 posts Member
    I'm not going to argue - that's not what I want this thread to be about. But I do want to make sure I understand other people's positions properly.
    So let me clarify.

    The argument you're putting forward with that "fist through the town" / "save those we love" pic is that Rose contradicts herself? Yes?
  • Stenun
    651 posts Member
    OK, I said I wasn't going to argue but let me just make this one point ...
    You've said that she is bad as well as Finn and Poe. But Finn and Poe aren't as hated as Rose. What is it about Rose that singles her out for such hatred? She spends all of TLJ with Finn and all the actions you've criticised her for, Finn does as well. But Finn is not as hated as Rose is.
    Why hate Rose and not Finn?

    I'm trying to understand and right now, I don't.
  • LordDirt
    1430 posts Member
    edited July 22
    IDK, I can't stand all three! :) Maybe because Finn and Poe actually do things and she doesn't? You could remove her for Star Wars and she wouldn't be missed? IDK
  • Vendi1983
    3998 posts Member
    Could remove Indy from Raiders of the Lost Ark and the entire movie would unfold exactly as it did anyway...
  • I don't particularly like rose as a character but I would hardly classify my feelings as hate.

    I'd place it in the same category as jar jar binks, an annoying side character that really serves no purpose to the story. Though if the Darth jar jar rumors were true then jar jar makes more sense.

    But rose is really only in the movie for a pointless side quest and to spout anti capitalism propaganda about "war profiteering". It really adds nothing to the story and takes me out of the movie so my guess is that association is one of the reasons many dislike her character.

    Personally, the issues with Rey's character and the disconjointed story line, as well as the blatant use of time (ea only 16 hours to save the galaxy and travel to 4 different planets) to build stakes in both the rise of Skywalker and the last jedi are bigger issues than rose.

    I think the difference between rose andujar jar was that jar jar was at least meant to be entertaining to kids (and my daughter loves him so it works) but rose was meant only to send a political message in a very obvious way and no subtlety which makes the messenger associated with the message which many don't like.
  • TVF
    24356 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    ykndz4jl0l10.png

    This is a very poorly made point.
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  • Nihion
    2991 posts Member
    I don’t hate Rose, but I do believe that the problem comes from the writing. She seems to be shoved into the movie (might be Disney’s doing) and it doesn’t feel like Rian really knew what he wanted for this character. Her weird mood swings are created to forward the plot and teach things to Finn, which takes away from her being a real character. To explain the anger that she gives off, they kill her sister, and then she tells Finn that it’s about saving what you love. I think this was the wrong message. I think the correct message was this: “Not all bad guys are bad guys, not all good guys are good guys.” This is where Finn’s story was sort of headed before it seems to get bogged down by plot and studio meddling. He comes from the “bad guys” but is a good guy, DJ shows him dealers for the “bad guys” that the “good guys” also buy from. That message fits better, and gives Rose a more clear purpose.

    Overall, I think the big problem is that she’s just a plot/message device, instead of a real character. She was so close, and I just wanted some more depth instead of more “My past experiences can help Finn.” I think that this makes her come off as “annoying,” and that’s why people don’t like her. Aside from the racists and sexists of course.
  • LordDirt
    1430 posts Member
    She was almost a fangirl in the movie and not a character.
  • CCyrilS
    4897 posts Member
    If kathleen kennedy were an actor and not a producer, she would be Rose. Rian would be jar jar, of course.
  • Vendi1983
    3998 posts Member
    @Stenun really interesting article. Thanks!
  • I don't like her because her character arc is undeveloped, same as Rey's
  • Vendi1983
    3998 posts Member
    Should read the article above. As a supporting character she doesn't necessarily need an arc. Typically they are there to advance or change the arc of one of the main characters.
  • TVF
    24356 posts Member
    edited July 24
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    Should read the article above. As a supporting character she doesn't necessarily need an arc. Typically they are there to advance or change the arc of one of the main characters.

    Well they also said "same as Rey." Personally I try to avoid wasting time arguing with someone who thinks Rey is underdeveloped.
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  • Ultra
    5981 posts Member
    I don't like her because her character arc is undeveloped, same as Rey's

    Actually, she had a well developed arc
    LordDirt wrote: »
    ykndz4jl0l10.png
    You clearly didn't understand her point in the second image. Her sister died in a suicide run, and she wants to fight the First Order to protect the galaxy, not to topple the regime. As in, she doesn't want to lose Finn and anyone else she cares about in the process again. The difference is why you are fighting the other side. Finn had no regard for his own life, and was willing to do whatever it takes as long as it hurt the First Order
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Sure. Plus why does she save a bunch of animals and leave the slave kids? Why does she and Finn let a complete stranger know the plans? They are the reason the Resistance got blown away. Her character as well as Finn and Poe are bad. Finn just yells for Rey most of the time and Poe gets most of the Resistance destroyed.
    To be fair, Poe and Finn were already planning to do something stupid, she just provided an option that was less stupid than what they were going for

    Also, they didn't have the time to save the kids because they can't just dump the kids in a middle of the jungle and tell them to survive on their own. Its easier to save the animals than the kids, and as we have seen in The Phantom Menace, Slavery is more accepted in the galaxy, and it might not sit right with you, but it is allowed in the galaxy. Its a lot more complicated to save kids. Yes, they trusted a stranger and that backfired on them. People trust strangers all the time, and sometimes it goes bad for them. Its a silly complaint to make

    Why did Harry Potter trust Sirius Black? Why did Luke and Ben trust Han and Chewie to fly them from Tatooine? Why does Shmi let Qui-Gon take away Anakin, he could've been a liar for all we know, etc etc etc
  • Because there's 7.8 billion people in this world and and no way everyone is going to like certain characters. Shes not my least favorite character but she messed up the relation I wanted to see happen (I know a bit selfish) I thought him and Rey were going to connect but then in just 1 movie Finn finds some random resistance member, goes on one mission and now they're in love. Idk just kinda bummed me out seeing that
  • Nihion
    2991 posts Member
    Because there's 7.8 billion people in this world and and no way everyone is going to like certain characters. Shes not my least favorite character but she messed up the relation I wanted to see happen (I know a bit selfish) I thought him and Rey were going to connect but then in just 1 movie Finn finds some random resistance member, goes on one mission and now they're in love. Idk just kinda bummed me out seeing that

    That’s a big problem with these movies. The only relationship that Disney seems sure of was Finn and Poe. Everyone else interacted differently with each other from movie to movie.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    You clearly didn't understand her point in the second image. Her sister died in a suicide run, and she wants to fight the First Order to protect the galaxy, not to topple the regime. As in, she doesn't want to lose Finn and anyone else she cares about in the process again. The difference is why you are fighting the other side. Finn had no regard for his own life, and was willing to do whatever it takes as long as it hurt the First Order

    I feel like there's two problems with this:
    1) I feel you have Finn's motivation wrong here. Finn wasn't willing to do whatever it takes to hurt the First Order. He was willing to do whatever it takes to save his comrades in the Resistance. Willing to give his life to save his friends, who were, as far as all the characters knew, all doomed to die if the gun was allowed to fire.
    2) You say Rose "doesn't want to lose Finn and anyone else she cares about in the process again". That may be the sentiment of the words she says, sure. But the consequence of her action doesn't logically match her words. She's literally going to lose everyone else she cares about by doing what she did, stopping Finn before he could stop the gun. By stopping Finn she dooms everyone she knows to die and the galaxy to fall to the First Order. In that moment, Finn is the last hope of saving the Resistance. Yes, a Force miracle saves the day afterwards, because movie, but in the context of what the characters know at the time of the event her action is dooming everyone to die, which would make her sister's sacrifice absolutely meaningless. By telling Finn he's wrong, she's also saying her sister was wrong, because her sister did exactly what Finn is trying to do. Sacrificed her life to save the others. Her action prevents Finn from doing exactly the action she says they should do: saving the people they love. It's also worth mentioning she crashes Finn right in front of the very people who want to kill him as a traitor. They'll almost certainly kill him on their way to kill everyone in the base through the newly destroyed door if not for the sudden Force miracle. She's not even really likely to save his life or her own in this action. There's no real context in which her action is the logical or the right one for the situation. If they wanted to have her stop Finn because she loves him, without dooming the Resistance to certain death, they could have had her charge past and crash her own ship into the gun instead. That, at least, would have been logical and save both her love and her friends, rather than dooming everyone.

  • Stenun wrote: »
    OK, I said I wasn't going to argue but let me just make this one point ...
    You've said that she is bad as well as Finn and Poe. But Finn and Poe aren't as hated as Rose. What is it about Rose that singles her out for such hatred? She spends all of TLJ with Finn and all the actions you've criticised her for, Finn does as well. But Finn is not as hated as Rose is.
    Why hate Rose and not Finn?

    I'm trying to understand and right now, I don't.

    It is true that Finn and Poe did actions along with her in that sequence. I think part of the reason they get a pass, to such extent as they do, is they were characters that already existed and had investment from the first movie. Rose is created suddenly in the second movie and immediately made a member of the main party and a love interest out of nowhere. Her existence in the film is also tied to many of the most criticized parts of the movie, some of which would never have happened without her. Most especially, as I mentioned in a comment on Ultra's comment, the Rose stops Finn and dooms the entire Resistance scene. Where it's not just her contradicting her words elsewhere, it's her words and actions literally conflicting with each other. I actually liked her at first appearance, because the sequence with Finn was funny and she had a note of sympathy for her sister's death. The side quest and the romance and her inclusion in the main party felt very forced, and began souring me on her as the film went on. If they hadn't tried to force her into the forefront of the action and then tied her to that subverting the hero scene, I don't think she would have been nearly as hated. As a side character, she was an interesting light moment in a tense situation. But like Jar-Jar someone else compared her to, she plays way too big a role in events, and honestly she would be as responsible as Jar-Jar in the Senate for dooming the galaxy if not for the Force miracle that followed.
  • HTWarrior
    37 posts Member
    edited July 29
    I can only speak for myself: For me its never been about the character of Rose or the actress Kelly Tran in particular. However she (and Holdo) were the main additions to the SW-universe in TLJ which imao was the worst piece of SW film ever recorded. Dont wanna list all the disapointments this film entailed cuz it makes me nausious. It just was the very first time in my life that I sat in a cinema watching a SW-movie and got impatient out of boredom hoping it would end soon. So I guess after watching many people who think similarly about TLJ focussed their frustration towards Rose and Holdo although they both played only secondary roles as to why TLJ was as bad as it was.

    My resentment was always aimed at Ryan Johnson (and even to him only partially given he also directed my favourite episode of "Breaking Bad")
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