Help with Bugs Team

Hoping someone can help me with a couple of questions on the Bugs group.
1) I have seen several discussions on how people think the protection / health equalization SHOULD work, but I want to understand how they DO work and I can't find that. I think it has to be one of 2 ways First: Bug 1 gets attacked and loses 25% of his protection. Then, to "equalize" 25% is divided by 5 which is 5%each so each Bug now has 95% of their protection in their stats. Second: Bug 1 is attacked and loses 10,000 protection points. 10,000/5 = 2000 points each and each bug now has 2000 less units of protection than they originally had.
Can someone tell me if it is one of these or something else?

2) Did the Bugs get reworked? Ever since the Vader rework I have been slaughtering Bug teams. About a week ago I went back to not being able to beat them. I was taking down gear 12s with one or 2 having relics, now no relics and a couple below gear 12 I am getting beat.

Thanks for any help on either of these.

Replies

  • Well its more about equally dividing the remains hp/prot, than dividing the damage between them, but in a single target case the math is basically the same.

    Neither of your methods works for AOE damage, as you are talking about dividing and subtracting that damage, so better to think of it as adding all remaining hp/prot into one pool, then dividing that evenly. Ignore the damage factor.
  • TVF
    25564 posts Member
    shaun51422 wrote: »
    2) Did the Bugs get reworked? Ever since the Vader rework I have been slaughtering Bug teams. About a week ago I went back to not being able to beat them. I was taking down gear 12s with one or 2 having relics, now no relics and a couple below gear 12 I am getting beat.

    Nope, did not get reworked.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Snowbird13
    272 posts Member
    edited August 7
    TVF wrote: »
    shaun51422 wrote: »
    2) Did the Bugs get reworked? Ever since the Vader rework I have been slaughtering Bug teams. About a week ago I went back to not being able to beat them. I was taking down gear 12s with one or 2 having relics, now no relics and a couple below gear 12 I am getting beat.

    Nope, did not get reworked.

    Look at their speed. If they are faster than your empire squad, it's a tough battle. Fast g11-12 bugs are harder than relics. In my shard there are a few bug teams. I destroy the one with 4 relics and a g12. The fast one with one relic is much harder. You have to get out in front of them if you want to beat them. Most empire teams aren't going to take a lot of hits from the mass assists.

    Are you using palp lead and thrawn? Fracture the brute, and take out GBA first. Use force crush, then MM. You should be able to hit everyone but GBA with a basic and get another force crush out, and save your culling blade for GBA. With that many dots and debuffs, he should go down with culling blade, and the health equalization is gone.
  • Vader can solo Geonosians teams under 2 conditions; 1: He is of equal gear level/relic or higher and 2: He is faster.

    If he doesn’t meet either of these, it’s best to run him with Palp, Shore, or Thrawn
  • Snowbird13
    272 posts Member
    edited August 7
    Vader can solo Geonosians teams under 2 conditions; 1: He is of equal gear level/relic or higher and 2: He is faster.

    If he doesn’t meet either of these, it’s best to run him with Palp, Shore, or Thrawn

    Not too sure about that one. I could put my fastest mods on him, but he will only take out one or two on his first run MM. That still leaves 4 before his next turn, which won't be a MM

    He does solo bugs in 3v3 though
  • Vader can solo Geonosians teams under 2 conditions; 1: He is of equal gear level/relic or higher and 2: He is faster.

    If he doesn’t meet either of these, it’s best to run him with Palp, Shore, or Thrawn

    This has been my experience until this week. Now suddenly my relic 4 Vader that goes 1st can't put down teams that are g12 and lower.
  • Snowbird13 wrote: »
    Vader can solo Geonosians teams under 2 conditions; 1: He is of equal gear level/relic or higher and 2: He is faster.

    If he doesn’t meet either of these, it’s best to run him with Palp, Shore, or Thrawn

    Not too sure about that one. I could put my fastest mods on him, but he will only take out one or two on his first run MM. That still leaves 4 before his next turn, which won't be a MM

    He does solo bugs in 3v3 though

    Also was my experience until this week
  • I don’t know what experiences you’ve all been having but I haven’t had issues running Vader solo into Geos, although I tend to also throw in Shoretrooper/IPD if they are a strong Geo team
  • Well its more about equally dividing the remains hp/prot, than dividing the damage between them, but in a single target case the math is basically the same.

    Neither of your methods works for AOE damage, as you are talking about dividing and subtracting that damage, so better to think of it as adding all remaining hp/prot into one pool, then dividing that evenly. Ignore the damage factor.


    I'm just talking about single target. I think it has to be somewhat about dividing the damage because if you had one with more stars and gear than another then the equalization would give the weak one a good deal more protection after he was damaged than before. That isn't right is it?
  • shaun51422 wrote: »
    Well its more about equally dividing the remains hp/prot, than dividing the damage between them, but in a single target case the math is basically the same.

    Neither of your methods works for AOE damage, as you are talking about dividing and subtracting that damage, so better to think of it as adding all remaining hp/prot into one pool, then dividing that evenly. Ignore the damage factor.


    I'm just talking about single target. I think it has to be somewhat about dividing the damage because if you had one with more stars and gear than another then the equalization would give the weak one a good deal more protection after he was damaged than before. That isn't right is it?

    It's % based. If you look after each equalization your health/prot bars are at the same level, so the same %. This does mean that attacking a geo with a lower max protection is more effective.

    Numbers are simplified to show the effect, but, let's say we have 6 geos out and they all have 10k max protection, except sun fac who has 20k protection.

    You do 6000 damage to geo soldier, leaving him at 40% protection. When protection equalizes they add up the percentage, so 5 people at 100% and one at 40%. So 540%, divide by 6 and we're at an average of 90%. So all geos go to 90% protection.

    So now you have 5 geos at 9,000 protection and sun fac is at 18,000 protection. That means geos are missing a total of 7000 protection even though you only did 6k damage to soldier.

    The opposite is also true though, if you did that 6k damage to sun fac geos would equalize to 95% protection. This means your 6,000 damage results in a loss of only 3,500 protection!
  • I’m curious, what are your move orders and kill priorities going in?
  • DuneFlint wrote: »
    shaun51422 wrote: »
    Well its more about equally dividing the remains hp/prot, than dividing the damage between them, but in a single target case the math is basically the same.

    Neither of your methods works for AOE damage, as you are talking about dividing and subtracting that damage, so better to think of it as adding all remaining hp/prot into one pool, then dividing that evenly. Ignore the damage factor.


    I'm just talking about single target. I think it has to be somewhat about dividing the damage because if you had one with more stars and gear than another then the equalization would give the weak one a good deal more protection after he was damaged than before. That isn't right is it?

    It's % based. If you look after each equalization your health/prot bars are at the same level, so the same %. This does mean that attacking a geo with a lower max protection is more effective.

    Numbers are simplified to show the effect, but, let's say we have 6 geos out and they all have 10k max protection, except sun fac who has 20k protection.

    You do 6000 damage to geo soldier, leaving him at 40% protection. When protection equalizes they add up the percentage, so 5 people at 100% and one at 40%. So 540%, divide by 6 and we're at an average of 90%. So all geos go to 90% protection.

    So now you have 5 geos at 9,000 protection and sun fac is at 18,000 protection. That means geos are missing a total of 7000 protection even though you only did 6k damage to soldier.

    The opposite is also true though, if you did that 6k damage to sun fac geos would equalize to 95% protection. This means your 6,000 damage results in a loss of only 3,500 protection!

    Thanks. This is what I was trying to figure out.
  • Train
    36 posts Member
    My understanding of how it works:
    Damage is computed against the individual (or each individual for an AOE). Hive mind equalization is computed on the sum of the remaining health and protection pool of alive units with hive mind.

    Example:
    100k Total Protection Pool
    100k Total Health Pool
    Geo A has 20k HP, 20k PP

    Geo A receives 30k hit, now has 10k health. Hive mind kicks in: Total Health and Protection Pool is now 170k out of 200k.
    100k/100k = 100%
    70k/100k = 70%
    All units with hive mind get full health and 70% protection. (May be slightly unequally distributed so that the total protection amongst all Geos equals 70k)
  • I’m curious, what are your move orders and kill priorities going in?

    Norally Sun Fac 1st with Crush, then GBA with culling, then which ever and have another Culling for Brute. Before this week, GBA and Brute were always killed if GBA was anything less than a relic and usually at least one of the others went down, usually both. I would say 90% of the time the only one left was the one I used Crush on.
  • Train wrote: »
    My understanding of how it works:
    Damage is computed against the individual (or each individual for an AOE). Hive mind equalization is computed on the sum of the remaining health and protection pool of alive units with hive mind.

    Example:
    100k Total Protection Pool
    100k Total Health Pool
    Geo A has 20k HP, 20k PP

    Geo A receives 30k hit, now has 10k health. Hive mind kicks in: Total Health and Protection Pool is now 170k out of 200k.
    100k/100k = 100%
    70k/100k = 70%
    All units with hive mind get full health and 70% protection. (May be slightly unequally distributed so that the total protection amongst all Geos equals 70k)

    I think this is the same as what DuneFlint wrote above, right?
  • DuneFlint
    581 posts Member
    edited August 7
    shaun51422 wrote: »
    Train wrote: »
    My understanding of how it works:
    Damage is computed against the individual (or each individual for an AOE). Hive mind equalization is computed on the sum of the remaining health and protection pool of alive units with hive mind.

    Example:
    100k Total Protection Pool
    100k Total Health Pool
    Geo A has 20k HP, 20k PP

    Geo A receives 30k hit, now has 10k health. Hive mind kicks in: Total Health and Protection Pool is now 170k out of 200k.
    100k/100k = 100%
    70k/100k = 70%
    All units with hive mind get full health and 70% protection. (May be slightly unequally distributed so that the total protection amongst all Geos equals 70k)

    I think this is the same as what DuneFlint wrote above, right?

    The math is different on theirs. They have the net loss as the same amount as the damage, give or take a coue protection. So attacking a weaker geo wouldn't make a difference. I really thought attacking a weaker one was more effective to reducing their pool, but i don't remember where i got that from, so they could very well be right and I'm wrong.
  • Train wrote: »

    I did find that in my search. But that thread is more on how people think it should work rather than how it does work. I was hoping that since it was a year later everyone (or at least someone) knew for sure now.
  • As noted above, the Health/Prot pools are equalized by %.

    So YES, you get better results by hitting the Lowest HP/PROT people first since it takes off more actual HP/Prot from the beefy tank types.

    But to do that you have to get around those taunts :)

  • Train
    36 posts Member
    I did a quick search here and on Reddit, and this discussion has occurred a number of times. None of discussions I looked at came to any definitive conclusion. Unfortunately the details of what is going on are not described on SWGOH.GG, so there's not really any good way to know for sure besides asking the developers. Are they doing one of those Q&A's anytime soon again?

    Personally, I see no reason why an equalization effect would add or remove HP from the total gained or lost based on who you attack. Then it's also doing damage and not just equalizing.

    Either way, attacking a weaker enemy is absolutely more effective. You do more damage against units with lower defense.
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