GAC division 2, how is this happening

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  • Waqui
    8507 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.
    I don't know how the algorithm handles the remainder. I can only speculate, as can you.

    There are only 2 ways for a player to place that highly:
    1) Win matches with full clears
    2) Be awarded byes

    Given the staggering weakness of that roster the possibility of repeatedly winning much less getting full clears, even against a roster of comparable matchmaking GP assuming such a thing exists, seems very remote.

    The other possibilities are cheating to win or repeatedly being given byes.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.
    I don't know how the algorithm handles the remainder. I can only speculate, as can you.

    There are only 2 ways for a player to place that highly:
    1) Win matches with full clears
    2) Be awarded byes

    Given the staggering weakness of that roster the possibility of repeatedly winning much less getting full clears, even against a roster of comparable matchmaking GP assuming such a thing exists, seems very remote.

    The other possibilities are cheating to win or repeatedly being given byes.

    I have no clue how the algorithm works and it's mostly speculation anyway, but I don't imagine that winners will be given a bye after the 1st round and so it's unlikely that you'll see a player shoot to the top of the rankings during rounds 2-3.

    And if there's ever a situation with a remainder or 1 or 2, then there are hundreds of other groups that could even out the holes.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.

    A bye. One bye. Not 10.

    So you agree, that one or more byes can't be the full explanation 10 rounds in, right?

    What do you mean by "full explanation"?

    I believe that the player sprang ahead in the rankings (temporarily) because of 1 bye in round 1, week 4. But it isn't the full explanation because it would still require great skill from the player to be undefeated and have scored a lot of points in weeks 1-3.

    The bye grants the player 2000 points no other player has access to until the round ends. For purposes of the OP comparing himself against this player, all the OP has to do is ensure his victory and add 2000 points to his own score (the OP will eventually receive those points when the round ends).
  • Waqui
    8507 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.

    A bye. One bye. Not 10.

    So you agree, that one or more byes can't be the full explanation 10 rounds in, right?

    What do you mean by "full explanation"?

    I believe that the player sprang ahead in the rankings (temporarily) because of 1 bye in round 1, week 4. But it isn't the full explanation because it would still require great skill from the player to be undefeated and have scored a lot of points in weeks 1-3.

    So, you agree then. Jolly good :-)

  • Waqui
    8507 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.
    I don't know how the algorithm handles the remainder. I can only speculate, as can you.

    There are only 2 ways for a player to place that highly:
    1) Win matches with full clears
    2) Be awarded byes

    Given the staggering weakness of that roster the possibility of repeatedly winning much less getting full clears, even against a roster of comparable matchmaking GP assuming such a thing exists, seems very remote.

    The other possibilities are cheating to win or repeatedly being given byes.

    The possibility of getting nothing but byes after being placed in their own one-player groups seems far more remote.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.
    I don't know how the algorithm handles the remainder. I can only speculate, as can you.

    There are only 2 ways for a player to place that highly:
    1) Win matches with full clears
    2) Be awarded byes

    Given the staggering weakness of that roster the possibility of repeatedly winning much less getting full clears, even against a roster of comparable matchmaking GP assuming such a thing exists, seems very remote.

    The other possibilities are cheating to win or repeatedly being given byes.

    The possibility of getting nothing but byes after being placed in their own one-player groups seems far more remote.

    But it is a possibility. I don’t know the Maths in other divisions, but it does remain a possibility at some stage of a GAC that one player and one player only gets promoted to, say Aurodium after GA2.

    If that were ever to happen, they’d get 3 byes. And they’d probably get a bit bored too.



  • Waqui
    8507 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Hmmm.... My lengthy response was flagged for review. It may show up eventually.

    All evidence points to a bye.

    We are 9-10 rounds in. The player ranking 1st has won 9 rounds and already played his offense in round 10. He may have gotten a bye at some point, but he didn't get 10 byes.
    Though unlikely, it is theoretically possible. His roster is weak enough that it could be have lowest matchmaking GP in his division. That could lead to him being in a bracket of one after each matchmaking within the GAC. In such a case, he would have to be awarded byes for all of his matches.

    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created. In groups of 3 or more players nobody will have 3 byes. That's impossible with the current matchmaking with a group of 8 (matching by number of wins so far).
    Depends how sophisticated the algorithm is.

    Consider splitting a sorted list of 10 into groups of 3 with the aim of producing the best matches. The simplest approach would be:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3, 2) (1)

    With a little more sophistication you could make:
    (10, 9, 8) (7, 6, 5) (4, 3,) (2,1)

    Trading one player with 2 byes for four players with 1 bye each.

    Matching is constrained by division & league and for each pairing there is a 1 in 8 chance that when you divide the number of players by 8 the remainder is 1 player

    .... And you truly believe, that groups of a single player happen i swgoh? Again:
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.
    I don't know how the algorithm handles the remainder. I can only speculate, as can you.

    There are only 2 ways for a player to place that highly:
    1) Win matches with full clears
    2) Be awarded byes

    Given the staggering weakness of that roster the possibility of repeatedly winning much less getting full clears, even against a roster of comparable matchmaking GP assuming such a thing exists, seems very remote.

    The other possibilities are cheating to win or repeatedly being given byes.

    The possibility of getting nothing but byes after being placed in their own one-player groups seems far more remote.

    But it is a possibility. I don’t know the Maths in other divisions, but it does remain a possibility at some stage of a GAC that one player and one player only gets promoted to, say Aurodium after GA2.

    If that were ever to happen, they’d get 3 byes. And they’d probably get a bit bored too.
    Waqui wrote: »
    I highly doubt that groups are organised so that a single player can have 3 byes in a GA. I highly doubt that groups of only 1 player will be created.

    I highly doubt that CG (yes, even CG) would design it that way. I'm quite sure that CG (yes, even CG) would account for this when setting the thresholds for the various leagues in each division.

  • Look, most the answers to your indignations are right in front of you.

    All the time? Yes, in the first round of a GA across all divisions you'll often find several.

    Never seen it? Of course not because you already made it clear that you don't normally look. This isn't something that sticks around for a long time. As there are many players like yourself that jump in to boost your rank right away and these players with byes get quickly over-taken.

    Also the rankings make it easy to see the top players but no one else.

    How is the roster possible? In my observations the divisions outside #1 have 30,000 - 50,000 players. Div #1 has much more. There are many players that focus on the collector aspect and have GP distributions just like this one.

    A bye every time? Luck? No these players get there on skill beating other players with similar rosters. That's how matchmaking works, remember: top X GP, same division and league.

    How do they get so high in the rankings? Like I said they get a perfect score AND round 1 rewards for winning. That's 2,000 more points than any other players has the opportunity to get at that moment.

    And it's much easier for these players to acquire every feat with rosters like that.

    Edit: I wrote this post days ago and it got flagged for review. I don't see any edits from my original. Not sure why it was flagged either.
  • In my observations the divisions outside #1 have 30,000 - 50,000 players. Div #1 has much more.
    Actually we have seen screenshots of 6-digit ranks from several divisions posted in a thread a few months ago.
  • Kyno
    31087 posts Moderator
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    In my observations the divisions outside #1 have 30,000 - 50,000 players. Div #1 has much more.
    Actually we have seen screenshots of 6-digit ranks from several divisions posted in a thread a few months ago.

    I really think a lot of people just underestimate how many players play this game. in the closed loop many of us see all the time it feels small, but its really not. There are just many tiers of players and different play styles, that kind of make each group feel like the other groups are much smaller (or fewer groups) than there really are.
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