Why does GL Luke require 21 characters at relic 3+

Replies

  • Kyno
    26619 posts Moderator
    Darion wrote: »
    kyno looking at my odometer example, when you get the brand new swgoh account and dedicate all your time and resources to only GL luke. does your RELICOMETER that tabulates all your character stats, will it tell you you have 14 relics once you unlock the JML event or will it tell you you have 21 relics

    Again, only if you ignore the fact that you now have JKL.

    He is in and of himself a step and reward.

    No matter what anyone how anyone wants to slice it:

    tymtgbxw9x5k.jpg

    Of course if we want to start a breakdown. It takes way more characters as you will need to include all the toons you have used to get gear, crystals and materials from each table, TBs, TWs, events, and both arenas, and anywhere else you have used to bring stuff into your account.
  • Since they both need same # of characters, I bet the jkl req won't effect anybodies decision. Now onto wrapping it up with irrelevant analogies.
  • @kyno I think that's a political answer; how many relics will you HAVE to have in your roster in order to participate in the JML event? You don't need 14, you need 21.
  • It's really not that complicated. There are two ways to count requirements. Both have merits for different reasons and in different situations. The default, in many cases, is to not count stuff recursively. That doesn't mean the nested dependencies don't exist.

    The real complaint here is about the fairness of the requirements, which is actually a complicated topic.

    Objectively, the requirements are different. This is true regardless of how you "count" the requirements. That is, even if you only look at the listed 15 toons, they're going to require different amounts gear (kyros, stun guns, even mk 1 stun guns!) to level up. It's also too early to say but there will likely be a different number of "required" zetas to beat the events.

    Different does not necessarily mean unfair. But, it's not easy to objectively define fairness. Hence, the debate. For starters though, fairness should to be measured across a population (eg the entire player base or 3+ yr accounts or accounts that already have 1 GL or new accounts). And, since you guys can't even agree on what that population is, you're never going to agree on what's fair. But the analogies are great so keep 'em coming.

    Other thoughts:

    I'm surprised no one has used "university course prerequisites" as an analogy yet unless I missed it.

    To propose yet another measure of fairness (which I don't think is perfect), suppose we simply wait until both characters are released, and see whether there's a significant difference in which one gets unlocked more within the first 3-6 months (measured across a few different populations). I'd argue a sort of "empirical fairness" (not sameness) exists in the requirements if roughly equal numbers of SEEs and JMLs get unlocked within a fixed time frame for a given population. And, it might well be the case that the requirements are fair, in this sense, for "3+ yr accounts" and not fair for "new accounts". You could also measure whether that empirical assessment of fairness evolves with time. Whether or not discrepancies in fairness over time or between different populations is itself unfair is an entire different debate.
  • @Calo_Nord

    Thank you for a truly productive addition to the discussion.
  • There is also this disparity between first and second batch of gls. Given cg said all of these four aim for a similar power differential, it's a curiosity. The no of requirements were announced as placeholder after the first batch of req.s, now we have 15 which I'm still not sure if it's a placeholder. Required relic tiers changed as well, there were no relic 4-6 needs for the first two.
  • Guys... Let's wait for the final requirements ya...

    Also, CG is bad at communicating... Stop bashing one another and peace out

    And yes I agree, GML takes more requirements then SEE... Its a fact. Just have to accept it...
  • I don't think I am bashing whatsoever, from what I have seen @kyno has been great in the chat before in wide ranging topics, however I do believe from the most technical point he is right it's a 14 player event but I think he is patently wrong to have the perspective that this event only requires 14 relics.
  • Kyno
    26619 posts Moderator
    Darion wrote: »
    I don't think I am bashing whatsoever, from what I have seen kyno has been great in the chat before in wide ranging topics, however I do believe from the most technical point he is right it's a 14 player event but I think he is patently wrong to have the perspective that this event only requires 14 relics.

    Let me ask, do the players who finished JKL the first round, before he was a requirement have different requirements for JML than anyone who didn't? because they used the "additional toons" to unlock JKL and will not have to relic them for JML.

    if you have to drive 315 miles for a trip with 2 stops at friends houses at 100 and 200 miles in relation to the whole trip.

    when at your last stop and asked how long your drive is to your destination, is the answer 315 miles, or 115 miles. one is the correct answer, and the other is a good opportunity for a dad joke.

    ignoring milestones on a trip as if they dont exsist, is a fine mindset to have when you want to look at how far you have come(looking at your roster build now and where you will be when you get done with JML), but it doesnt' change how long segments of the trip (each event, because they are independent entities) are in relation to where you are.

    if the OP wants to discuss how many toons they need to relic (or others in certain situations) to get JML from where they are now, that is a different topic than saying that he directly requires anything more than he directly requires, becuase once you have JKL, you reset the odometer to take the journey to get JML, as that is its own thing.

    every player is in different places on many toons, so again, the OPs situtation is different than someone elses who may have X number of them already relic'd does that mean those players have different requirements? No. the requirements are the same for everyone, 15.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    I don't think I am bashing whatsoever, from what I have seen kyno has been great in the chat before in wide ranging topics, however I do believe from the most technical point he is right it's a 14 player event but I think he is patently wrong to have the perspective that this event only requires 14 relics.

    Let me ask, do the players who finished JKL the first round, before he was a requirement have different requirements for JML than anyone who didn't? because they used the "additional toons" to unlock JKL and will not have to relic them for JML.

    if you have to drive 315 miles for a trip with 2 stops at friends houses at 100 and 200 miles in relation to the whole trip.

    when at your last stop and asked how long your drive is to your destination, is the answer 315 miles, or 115 miles. one is the correct answer, and the other is a good opportunity for a dad joke.

    ignoring milestones on a trip as if they dont exsist, is a fine mindset to have when you want to look at how far you have come(looking at your roster build now and where you will be when you get done with JML), but it doesnt' change how long segments of the trip (each event, because they are independent entities) are in relation to where you are.

    if the OP wants to discuss how many toons they need to relic (or others in certain situations) to get JML from where they are now, that is a different topic than saying that he directly requires anything more than he directly requires, becuase once you have JKL, you reset the odometer to take the journey to get JML, as that is its own thing.

    every player is in different places on many toons, so again, the OPs situtation is different than someone elses who may have X number of them already relic'd does that mean those players have different requirements? No. the requirements are the same for everyone, 15.

    Not to pile on, but time to pile on, but also support you

    It's all relative to where you are in the game, and what your roster looks like. I think you and everyone else are arguing two different things.

    I'll use my real game situation. Today I will cross 5mil gp. I have both Rey and SLKR. I have 7* Malak and 7* gas.

    I am closer to SEE than I am to JKLS... And in addition I'm closer to SEE than JMLS...

    To me, the choice is clear and obvious, I can probably get SEE before I can get JKLS (68/100 on Hoda and 10/100 on Wampa)... It's a much bigger investment for me from where I'm at to get JMLS than SEE, and I'm a sith/empire fan (have a sith holocron on my desk, wearing an empire lanyard) so I'm happy with this requirement.

    But many in my guild/my spheres are literally thrilled with the JMLS requirements because they essentially have 0 work to do and are closer for him than SEE, since many people at this level already have a relic'd rebel team, already wanted or had JKLS irregardless of JMLS (I am still farming for JKLS cause I want him outside JMLS), and find these requirements super palatable.

    So technically both Kyno and the huddled masses, and all the analogies are correct. It's just where you are sitting and where you are looking at. The journey guide only looks at the direct prerequisites, not the prerequisites of that prerequisite prerequisites. And both are legitimate ways to look at this. But to have an honest argument, both sides need to decide to argue about the same **** thing
  • Most likely they added jedi Luke because a lot of late game players have cls, han, chewie, r2, and 3PO already reliced or at least g12+. So they needed a way to make the gear crunch harder.

    The alternative would have been to require relic pao or kit fisto or some other useless rebels or jedi. That would not only not make a lot of sense lore wise but would be dreadful to relic even more useless characters.

    We'll have to wait and see how even the requirements turn out to be. Adding malak as a requirement may make them closer but ultimately it depends on what your roster looks like. Mine is more ds heavy already we with empire and sith so I'm going for papa palps. And I hope they add malak since that's a freebie for me.

    And there are many where they are rebel heavy and jml will be the easy win because they were already mostly done we with jedi Luke when the event was announced. So it will all be relative to your roster.

    When they said they would be similar, they may not mean similar if starting from scratch but similar on average for the vast majority of the player base with some being closer to papa palps as and some to jml.

    It is also more difficult to not require legendary toons or journey toons for ls characters as there are far more ls characters that are legendary or journey characters and far less ones that haven't been requirements already for a legendary or journey character.

    There are only a handful of legendary ds characters

    1. Thrawn
    2. Darth revan
    3. Darth Malak
    4. Traya

    But there are far more for ls

    1. Gmy
    2. Jedi revan
    3. Cls
    4. Jtr
    5. Padme
    6. Gas
    7. Chewie
    8. 3P0
    9. R2
    10. Jedi luke

    They could add all 4 to papa palps requirements and it would still not be completely even if starting from scratch. But what else can they do?

    People complain if they put trash characters as req but they complain if you have a recent journey character. They aren't going to put only the rebels everyone has geared up already and give away a free GL. Just isn't going to happen.

    Personally I would have preferred if they saved jkl and made him a gl with a mix of his and jml's requirements since ep 8 luke isn't that great in my opinion but I'm sure disney probably vetoed that idea since they are obsessed with sequel trilogy content.

  • 1. Thrawn
    2. Darth revan
    3. Darth Malak
    4. Traya.

    Palp is also a legendary
  • Yado101 wrote: »

    1. Thrawn
    2. Darth revan
    3. Darth Malak
    4. Traya.

    Palp is also a legendary

    Fair enough. I thought I was missing one. He's already required though
  • Can we shut up with the distance and race analogies?

    The bottom line is that if you're an end game player, you would've had most of the requirements for Jedi Luke anyway. If you're a mid level player who found GAS and malak shards more useful than hoda or wampa, then Jedi Luke is a long way off, so Master Luke is even further away.

    I'm in the second category who also finds getting one character relic'd a big time investment, so unless the final round of requirements changes my mind I'll go for palps.
  • Why does this OP always whine about everything?
  • Noticed as well
  • Jpolson43 wrote: »
    Why does this OP always whine about everything?

    Why do you always follow me, are you a stalker?
  • Jpolson43 wrote: »
    Why does this OP always whine about everything?

    Why do you always follow me, are you a stalker?

    While I agree it is rather unfair, we still do not know the last part of requirements. So, there is some probability, there will be some more overlapping characters like Hyoda, Captain Han Solo, ROLO or May be even Lando...
  • TVF
    25894 posts Member
    Jpolson43 wrote: »
    Why does this OP always whine about everything?

    Why do you always follow me, are you a stalker?

    Not directed at me, but I follow everyone, and I notice patterns. Jpolson43 may do similarly.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Jpolson43 wrote: »
    Why does this OP always whine about everything?

    Why do you always follow me, are you a stalker?

    Not directed at me, but I follow everyone, and I notice patterns. Jpolson43 may do similarly.

    And the more some talk more the pattern shows up...like if you are one of (if not the one) who more post/comment on forum people start to know you pattern
  • TheMaster12345
    604 posts Member
    edited September 22
    Jpolson43 wrote: »
    Why does this OP always whine about everything?

    Why do you always follow me, are you a stalker?

    People have seen a lot of complaint threads from you. Some of them being this one, one about GCs and a lot of other comments and threads that I don't remember the names to.
  • Eh if they were empty complains, they would never get this big, most of my posts got solid reason behind them
  • Not directed at me, but I follow everyone, and I notice patterns.

    Disagree.
  • So i don't understand....if I already have the characters (from my own gaming or obtaining other characters) than I shouldn't count that as a requirement?? That doesn't make any sense.

  • All I'm saying is that so far you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to get the GL Luke, compared to the other 3 GL's, this is the most amount of required relic toons,

    Quit lying to yourselves, if you don't have the said 21 characters then you won't get the GL Luke, its as simple as that, now call it whatever you want 2 race, 19 different farm progression or what not
  • I don't know why this became a debate.... Does a player need wampa at R3 to get GL luke? The answer is yes, and while it is not a direct requirements, it's still a requirement all the same.
  • Yeah I am sorry about all the anoligies I feel like I kinda took it to an extreme.

    But I have stated that you need to consider the characters themselves more and the stats on how many players have those required characters at much higher gear levels compared to SEEP requirements which would likely balance things out more.

    But I will not be told there are less than 21 characters needed at relics it's an illogical statement at best and blatant gaslighting at worst.

    When you look at JML requirements you think yeah I wouldn't mind upgrading them because they're AWESOME characters to have, which is the trade-off considering you look at SEEP requirements and there are already 4 terrible characters with room for potentially 5 more.
  • LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    I don't know why this became a debate.... Does a player need wampa at R3 to get GL luke? The answer is yes, and while it is not a direct requirements, it's still a requirement all the same.

    And a person needs to be in a guild. And needs whatever is required to farm the gear. And ... but that is not the point. You don't say a player needs an R3 Wampa to get JML for the same reason you don't say belonging to a guild is required to get JML.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    I don't know why this became a debate.... Does a player need wampa at R3 to get GL luke? The answer is yes, and while it is not a direct requirements, it's still a requirement all the same.

    And a person needs to be in a guild. And needs whatever is required to farm the gear. And ... but that is not the point. You don't say a player needs an R3 Wampa to get JML for the same reason you don't say belonging to a guild is required to get JML.

    From planet earth to @StarSon if you don't have a relic 3 wampa, you can't get JML, you do not need to be in a guild to get gear, or do you need to be in a guild to get wampa,
    Belonging to a guild is not a requirement to get the JML, wampa is
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