Why does GL Luke require 21 characters at relic 3+

Replies

  • @kyno can you please close this discussion, all it is now is the exact same points being made time and time again with slightly different wording.
  • Sigh
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.

    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    Hey great job, now did you unlock ur JKL with gear 8 and 10 characters? Oh no you didn't since you needed those characters at relic 3 to unlock him, and guess what, without JKL you can't get JML 😉, so stop dropping the mike on ur head and use it instead.

    End of the day, you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to unlock JML, if you say otherwise you are clearly just a troll or you just don't understand basic math, keep ur race 1 and 2 to yourself, in order to get JML you need all these characters at relic 3 or higher and that is the end of the story.
  • Sigh
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.

    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.
    End of the day, you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to unlock JML, if you say otherwise you are clearly just a troll or you just don't understand basic math, keep ur race 1 and 2 to yourself, in order to get JML you need all these characters at relic 3 or higher and that is the end of the story.
    And yet it shouldn't be an issue or even considered a disparity. You already get your ROI for the additional characters by getting JKL himself.

    Do you need more characters due to indirect requirements? Sure. Does it matter in any way though?


  • And yet it shouldn't be an issue or even considered a disparity. You already get your ROI for the additional characters by getting JKL himself.

    Do you need more characters due to indirect requirements? Sure. Does it matter in any way though?


    Questionable. One might make an argument that 21 reliced toons will reward you JML + JKL, while 26 reliced toons could reward you SLK + BigForehead Rey.

    You might or might not suffer some penalty in GAC for this. I for one, dont think it will result in any serious difference. Also, if someone is such a tryhard in GAC they are well aware of this situation and can make a more educated decision, if they want to. I am not really an expert on the "Roster Vs GAC MM" optimization, so i couldnt know.

    But this denial here on the forum indeed annoys me.
  • Starslayer wrote: »

    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".

    You really dont understand, that you already reliced 5+ characters to be eligible for JML, whereas you did not have to relic anyone (so far) to be eligible for NecroPalpi?

    Without relicing those 5+ toons first, you are simple not eligible for JML. I fully understand that you have now JKL, congrats, well done, well deserved. I DO understand it. Do you understand, that you actually REQUIRE those characters at relic to be eligible for JML? If you do, stop trolling, if you dont, well, i cannot help you any more.
  • Sigh
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.
    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    Hey great job, now did you unlock ur JKL with gear 8 and 10 characters? Oh no you didn't since you needed those characters at relic 3 to unlock him, and guess what, without JKL you can't get JML 😉, so stop dropping the mike on ur head and use it instead.

    End of the day, you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to unlock JML, if you say otherwise you are clearly just a troll or you just don't understand basic math, keep ur race 1 and 2 to yourself, in order to get JML you need all these characters at relic 3 or higher and that is the end of the story.
    @Its_not_a_moon
    @SerWulfgar

    When you say "21 characters of r3 of higher are needed to unlock JML", it's true. But when you say that the prerequisites are 21 characters and when cg say it's 14 it's a loophole, that's not true. From my roster's point of vue, the prerequisites are relic'ing 14 characters + ship, for either GL. No loophole here, just a fact.

    I will try another sport analogy, because i think we just don't understand each other and could find common ground, so let's try something else. To win the champions League in soccer, you need to play 13 games. Some teams, the least seasoned ones, need to play 4 more games in a qualifier round in order to access the tournament. So those teams have to play a total of 17 matches to win the champions league, true. Still, for all other teams (here players with jkl or on the road to unlock jkl anyway), it's a 13 games tournament.

  • TVF
    25640 posts Member
    @kyno can you please close this discussion, all it is now is the exact same points being made time and time again with slightly different wording.

    Welcome to the forums!
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.

    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    So if someone has all the toons at R7 there are no requirements for JML?? sorry man, this makes no sense.
  • MasterSeedy
    2389 posts Member
    edited September 23
    @Starslayer
    From my roster's point of vue, the prerequisites are relic'ing 14 characters + ship, for either GL. No loophole here, just a fact.

    From my roster's point of view, I need 10 toons and no ships.
  • Starslayer
    319 posts Member
    edited September 23
    @Starslayer
    From my roster's point of vue, the prerequisites are relic'ing 14 characters + ship, for either GL. No loophole here, just a fact.

    From my roster's point of view, I need 10 toons and no ships.

    A bunch of players find jml requirements easier than palp (so far, the thread could have a major update shortly ^^), even if it needs a hard to unlock character. So yes, the Obi-Wan theorem (aka point of vue) is relevant to judge the balance of requirements imo (as much as the usefulness of required characters, but that's another subject).

    Even if part of what's op is saying is true, i don't see any loophole or unfairness. I agree with the premice but not the conclusion ;)
    Post edited by Starslayer on
  • Ok does it really matter that some call requirements for requirements as requirements and some don't?

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Just agree to disagree on how you view it.

    I know why cg lists it the way they do. It's easier to list a legendary character as a requirement than to list every character from scratch. With how many legendary characters that have been around for a long time now, I'd expect more of them to be needed in the future.

  • LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.

    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    So if someone has all the toons at R7 there are no requirements for JML?? sorry man, this makes no sense.

    I think it does. Let's exaggerate, like a lot. Let's say Grumpy Luke requires 12 Resistance characters at Relic level and Palp 3 Tusken at Relic level. I guess a bunch of players will find Luke requirements insanely easy and Palp requirements a cheap shot. Others will disagree big time. On a different perspective, to unlock GAS, the four 501st clones at a prerequisites would have been a better deal than just Shaakti+Asaaj, even if it would mean 4 characters instead of 2, because you would have gear them anyway. My point is that the raw number of gear needed from a starting account isn't enough to judge difficulty/fairness of a requirement.
    The challenge of the requirements (imho) is to balance character collection and strategy gameplay. On a collector perspective, different 'styles' of requirements is a low blow, because if you absolutely want the character just because, you have to jump through the hoops that CG puts in front of you, even if you don't like it. On a gameplay perspective, different styles of requirements offer an meaningful choice. If I didn't chase JKL, should I go the easy way for Palp or the hard way and end up with better characters ? If I have Rey and JKL and am closer to JML than Palp or Kylo, should I go for Kylo anyway because of Sith Raid, or Palp because of Kit reveal ?
    TL;DR: JLK required isn't a curve ball imo. There are more factors to balance requirements than gear needed from a starting account.
  • tldr: we live in a data-driven world and that's why the requirements look the way they do.

    Debating the transitivity of requirements seems rather silly to me. Asking why there is an apparent (implicit) lopsidedness in requirements is a legitimate question that only a few people have actually attempted to answer. Here's my best guess at an explanation which others have stated as well so this isn't exactly new. Let's suppose for a moment that generic DS GL and generic LS GL each only require 1 character to unlock. Suppose further that within the current state of the game the distribution of gear levels for these characters looks roughly like:

    DS char1 (on the left) | LS char1 (on the right)

    9d5a2dheu4ie.png

    Ignore the axis. I grabbed images from the internet since I was too lazy to generate figures myself. Intuitively, in the current state of the game, the "average" player has low gear DS char1 and the "average" player has high gear LS char1. In the short term, it's too easy for the "average" player to unlock generic LS GL which requires LS char1. Unveiling requirements shocks the dynamics of the game so the long term incentives of players will change but in the short term the "imbalance" in requirements is bad for the health of the game. So how do you fix the imbalance? Well, the simplest way would be to replace LS char1 with another character whose distribution looks more like DS char1. But there are other ways too.

    Suppose instead we add more requirements to both like DS char2 and LS char2 such that the distributions are swapped for the new reqs. That is, the "average" player has high gear DS char2 and low gear LS char2. Technically, that doesn't necessarily fix the imbalance because now what you really care about are the joint distributions (which I'm not drawing here). The point is: there is data-driven mathematical way to assess how balanced the requirements are given the current state of the game.

    Yet another, even more complicated, approach to balancing the requirements, would be to replace LS char1 by a new character that's gated behind other requirements such the the joint distribution over all those has roughly similar implications "on average" for unlocking generic LS GL when compared with the requirements "on average" for unlocking generic DS GL.

    But, what do I know? I suppose CG could, instead, have absolutely no clue what the current state of their game is. I'm just speculating that in a data-driven business world there's probably a very clear data-driven reason for the requirements (and that includes the ones that haven't been revealed yet!). Of course, there's also the possibility CG could want the requirements to be imbalanced for an entirely different but (I would bet) still data-driven reason. So all we can really do here is guess at motives...

    * distributions and hence "average" players are relative to a population (entire playerbase, old accounts, new accounts) which circles back to a point I made in an early post about the fairness of the requirements.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Sigh
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.
    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    Hey great job, now did you unlock ur JKL with gear 8 and 10 characters? Oh no you didn't since you needed those characters at relic 3 to unlock him, and guess what, without JKL you can't get JML 😉, so stop dropping the mike on ur head and use it instead.

    End of the day, you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to unlock JML, if you say otherwise you are clearly just a troll or you just don't understand basic math, keep ur race 1 and 2 to yourself, in order to get JML you need all these characters at relic 3 or higher and that is the end of the story.
    @Its_not_a_moon
    @SerWulfgar

    When you say "21 characters of r3 of higher are needed to unlock JML", it's true. But when you say that the prerequisites are 21 characters and when cg say it's 14 it's a loophole, that's not true. From my roster's point of vue, the prerequisites are relic'ing 14 characters + ship, for either GL. No loophole here, just a fact.

    I will try another sport analogy, because i think we just don't understand each other and could find common ground, so let's try something else. To win the champions League in soccer, you need to play 13 games. Some teams, the least seasoned ones, need to play 4 more games in a qualifier round in order to access the tournament. So those teams have to play a total of 17 matches to win the champions league, true. Still, for all other teams (here players with jkl or on the road to unlock jkl anyway), it's a 13 games tournament.

    However, there is no way someone can get JML without r3 wampa, etc but a team can win the tournament without having to play those 4 more games.

    In the finals Soccer world cup A team just need to win one game to be the champion that doesn’t chage the fact that the team needed to play 7 games to be the champion
  • Another fact:
    Everyone who is missing Wampa is missing a lot of fun!
  • Jppc wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Sigh
    Starslayer wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Omg, we are still here, ppl not understanding how the requirement of the requirement is still an indirect requirement. Scary part is, ppl denying this are still allowed to vote. And drive. And reproduce.

    For the last time: if the race is 2000 meters, but you must qualify for it on an 1500 meters race, then the race is still 2000 meters, but you have to run 3500 meters, to finish it. Splitting it into two sections, and running it on two days, and getting a medal for the first one does NOT reduce the total length. Boom, roasted.

    For some strange reason, in every athletic competition, where ppl can qualify to the finals in one round or in 2 rounds, everyone with 2 rounds are considered to be at a disadvantage. Not saying that it fully determines the outcome, but still.

    Another scary part: this conversation is just superfluous, should have ended after the first post with a "Yes and who cares?" comment.
    I have unlocked JKL. So I have 2 choices: relic 15 characters to farm Grumpy Luke or relic 15 characters to farm Palpalich. I will see your "Boom, roasted" and raise you a "Drop mike".
    On a sidenote: I did reproduce. Only once, but still, sorry if this scares you.

    Hey great job, now did you unlock ur JKL with gear 8 and 10 characters? Oh no you didn't since you needed those characters at relic 3 to unlock him, and guess what, without JKL you can't get JML 😉, so stop dropping the mike on ur head and use it instead.

    End of the day, you need 21 characters at relic 3 or higher to unlock JML, if you say otherwise you are clearly just a troll or you just don't understand basic math, keep ur race 1 and 2 to yourself, in order to get JML you need all these characters at relic 3 or higher and that is the end of the story.
    @Its_not_a_moon
    @SerWulfgar

    When you say "21 characters of r3 of higher are needed to unlock JML", it's true. But when you say that the prerequisites are 21 characters and when cg say it's 14 it's a loophole, that's not true. From my roster's point of vue, the prerequisites are relic'ing 14 characters + ship, for either GL. No loophole here, just a fact.

    I will try another sport analogy, because i think we just don't understand each other and could find common ground, so let's try something else. To win the champions League in soccer, you need to play 13 games. Some teams, the least seasoned ones, need to play 4 more games in a qualifier round in order to access the tournament. So those teams have to play a total of 17 matches to win the champions league, true. Still, for all other teams (here players with jkl or on the road to unlock jkl anyway), it's a 13 games tournament.

    However, there is no way someone can get JML without r3 wampa, etc but a team can win the tournament without having to play those 4 more games.

    In the finals Soccer world cup A team just need to win one game to be the champion that doesn’t chage the fact that the team needed to play 7 games to be the champion

    Man, my analogy **** big time ^^

    Calo Nord explained what I meant far better two post up. There are more factors to balance requirements than gear needed from a starting account.
  • I have zero problem with someone saying that the requirements for JML are "fair" compared to the requirements for SEE. I think what's "fair" depends on what you get at the end, so I have no idea how they are reaching this conclusion before the new GLs have dropped, but that's their opinion and I won't contest it.

    I do have a problem with people saying that the game does not require 21 toons at relic3+ for JML. That's a fact and denying reality isn't an opinion, it's a problem.

    Fortunately it seems to me that the people who were denying that 21 relic3+ toons are required are either posting less or slowly figuring out that whether or not something is fair is different from whether or not something exists. (I haven't bothered to compare the names of posters from page 1-2 with those from page 6-7).

    I hope that maybe, MAYBE we can now get on with a productive conversation that accepts reality and moves to discussions of whether the requirements are good/fair/whatever, which IMO is still premature, but at least has a chance of bringing out interesting opinions.
  • Calo_Nord wrote: »
    tldr: we live in a data-driven world and that's why the requirements look the way they do.

    Debating the transitivity of requirements seems rather silly to me. Asking why there is an apparent (implicit) lopsidedness in requirements is a legitimate question that only a few people have actually attempted to answer. Here's my best guess at an explanation which others have stated as well so this isn't exactly new. Let's suppose for a moment that generic DS GL and generic LS GL each only require 1 character to unlock. Suppose further that within the current state of the game the distribution of gear levels for these characters looks roughly like:

    DS char1 (on the left) | LS char1 (on the right)

    9d5a2dheu4ie.png

    Ignore the axis. I grabbed images from the internet since I was too lazy to generate figures myself. Intuitively, in the current state of the game, the "average" player has low gear DS char1 and the "average" player has high gear LS char1. In the short term, it's too easy for the "average" player to unlock generic LS GL which requires LS char1. Unveiling requirements shocks the dynamics of the game so the long term incentives of players will change but in the short term the "imbalance" in requirements is bad for the health of the game. So how do you fix the imbalance? Well, the simplest way would be to replace LS char1 with another character whose distribution looks more like DS char1. But there are other ways too.

    Suppose instead we add more requirements to both like DS char2 and LS char2 such that the distributions are swapped for the new reqs. That is, the "average" player has high gear DS char2 and low gear LS char2. Technically, that doesn't necessarily fix the imbalance because now what you really care about are the joint distributions (which I'm not drawing here). The point is: there is data-driven mathematical way to assess how balanced the requirements are given the current state of the game.

    Yet another, even more complicated, approach to balancing the requirements, would be to replace LS char1 by a new character that's gated behind other requirements such the the joint distribution over all those has roughly similar implications "on average" for unlocking generic LS GL when compared with the requirements "on average" for unlocking generic DS GL.

    But, what do I know? I suppose CG could, instead, have absolutely no clue what the current state of their game is. I'm just speculating that in a data-driven business world there's probably a very clear data-driven reason for the requirements (and that includes the ones that haven't been revealed yet!). Of course, there's also the possibility CG could want the requirements to be imbalanced for an entirely different but (I would bet) still data-driven reason. So all we can really do here is guess at motives...

    * distributions and hence "average" players are relative to a population (entire playerbase, old accounts, new accounts) which circles back to a point I made in an early post about the fairness of the requirements.

    Ok you are right. You know how are the real distribution of geared toons? You know if CG wants JML to be harder to obtain? You may or may not explained why 21 is needed doesn’t change the fact that to obtain JML you need to have reliced wampa,hyoda,vader,ROLO,CHOLO,etc
    Anyone who get JML will need to have at least 21 characters reliced.
  • Jppc wrote: »
    Calo_Nord wrote: »
    tldr: we live in a data-driven world and that's why the requirements look the way they do.

    Debating the transitivity of requirements seems rather silly to me. Asking why there is an apparent (implicit) lopsidedness in requirements is a legitimate question that only a few people have actually attempted to answer. Here's my best guess at an explanation which others have stated as well so this isn't exactly new. Let's suppose for a moment that generic DS GL and generic LS GL each only require 1 character to unlock. Suppose further that within the current state of the game the distribution of gear levels for these characters looks roughly like:

    DS char1 (on the left) | LS char1 (on the right)

    9d5a2dheu4ie.png

    Ignore the axis. I grabbed images from the internet since I was too lazy to generate figures myself. Intuitively, in the current state of the game, the "average" player has low gear DS char1 and the "average" player has high gear LS char1. In the short term, it's too easy for the "average" player to unlock generic LS GL which requires LS char1. Unveiling requirements shocks the dynamics of the game so the long term incentives of players will change but in the short term the "imbalance" in requirements is bad for the health of the game. So how do you fix the imbalance? Well, the simplest way would be to replace LS char1 with another character whose distribution looks more like DS char1. But there are other ways too.

    Suppose instead we add more requirements to both like DS char2 and LS char2 such that the distributions are swapped for the new reqs. That is, the "average" player has high gear DS char2 and low gear LS char2. Technically, that doesn't necessarily fix the imbalance because now what you really care about are the joint distributions (which I'm not drawing here). The point is: there is data-driven mathematical way to assess how balanced the requirements are given the current state of the game.

    Yet another, even more complicated, approach to balancing the requirements, would be to replace LS char1 by a new character that's gated behind other requirements such the the joint distribution over all those has roughly similar implications "on average" for unlocking generic LS GL when compared with the requirements "on average" for unlocking generic DS GL.

    But, what do I know? I suppose CG could, instead, have absolutely no clue what the current state of their game is. I'm just speculating that in a data-driven business world there's probably a very clear data-driven reason for the requirements (and that includes the ones that haven't been revealed yet!). Of course, there's also the possibility CG could want the requirements to be imbalanced for an entirely different but (I would bet) still data-driven reason. So all we can really do here is guess at motives...

    * distributions and hence "average" players are relative to a population (entire playerbase, old accounts, new accounts) which circles back to a point I made in an early post about the fairness of the requirements.

    Ok you are right. You know how are the real distribution of geared toons? You know if CG wants JML to be harder to obtain? You may or may not explained why 21 is needed doesn’t change the fact that to obtain JML you need to have reliced wampa,hyoda,vader,ROLO,CHOLO,etc
    Anyone who get JML will need to have at least 21 characters reliced.

    Nope, I don't.

    I did say debating the transitivity of requirements is pointless and that I'm just speculating that in a data-driven business world there's probably a very clear data-driven reason for the requirements (and that includes the ones that haven't been revealed yet!). Of course, there's also the possibility CG could want the requirements to be imbalanced for an entirely different but (I would bet) still data-driven reason. So all we can really do here is guess at motives...


  • Kyno
    25997 posts Moderator
    I have zero problem with someone saying that the requirements for JML are "fair" compared to the requirements for SEE. I think what's "fair" depends on what you get at the end, so I have no idea how they are reaching this conclusion before the new GLs have dropped, but that's their opinion and I won't contest it.

    I do have a problem with people saying that the game does not require 21 toons at relic3+ for JML. That's a fact and denying reality isn't an opinion, it's a problem.

    Fortunately it seems to me that the people who were denying that 21 relic3+ toons are required are either posting less or slowly figuring out that whether or not something is fair is different from whether or not something exists. (I haven't bothered to compare the names of posters from page 1-2 with those from page 6-7).

    I hope that maybe, MAYBE we can now get on with a productive conversation that accepts reality and moves to discussions of whether the requirements are good/fair/whatever, which IMO is still premature, but at least has a chance of bringing out interesting opinions.

    It is just gaslighting the community to say he requires anything other than what he actually requires.

    Trying to cause an upset about needing a very good toon who has other requirements and acting like there is no reward for those previous achievements is just silly.
  • I have zero problem with someone saying that the requirements for JML are "fair" compared to the requirements for SEE. I think what's "fair" depends on what you get at the end, so I have no idea how they are reaching this conclusion before the new GLs have dropped, but that's their opinion and I won't contest it.

    I do have a problem with people saying that the game does not require 21 toons at relic3+ for JML. That's a fact and denying reality isn't an opinion, it's a problem.

    Fortunately it seems to me that the people who were denying that 21 relic3+ toons are required are either posting less or slowly figuring out that whether or not something is fair is different from whether or not something exists. (I haven't bothered to compare the names of posters from page 1-2 with those from page 6-7).

    I hope that maybe, MAYBE we can now get on with a productive conversation that accepts reality and moves to discussions of whether the requirements are good/fair/whatever, which IMO is still premature, but at least has a chance of bringing out interesting opinions.

    I think the issue comes down to the definition of requirements.

    Some are only defining requirements as the toons shown in the journey guide.

    Others are defining it as everything you need to have in your roster to get the character.

    Both definitions can be correct depending on how you are defining such things.

    So is it really worth arguing about.

    I personally lean towards using the first definition since it is easier to say jkl is required rather than to name all of his requirements.

    However if you are favoriting all characters that you need to work on you may want to look at it from the second point of view.

    So both can be correct at the same time and arguing about it is arguing semantics and a waste of time.
  • let's get JMLqfcraiahy741.jpg
    Hmmmm it says it needs JKL18kfxgpe4uhl.jpg
    Oh look JKL needs these characters at relic 3, wait does that mean I NEED 21 characters at relic 3 or above to unlock him????? Yes
  • let's get JMLqfcraiahy741.jpg
    Hmmmm it says it needs JKL18kfxgpe4uhl.jpg
    Oh look JKL needs these characters at relic 3, wait does that mean I NEED 21 characters at relic 3 or above to unlock him????? Yes

    You show quite clearly with your first screenshot that Wampa is not a JML requirement.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    let's get JMLqfcraiahy741.jpg
    Hmmmm it says it needs JKL18kfxgpe4uhl.jpg
    Oh look JKL needs these characters at relic 3, wait does that mean I NEED 21 characters at relic 3 or above to unlock him????? Yes

    You show quite clearly with your first screenshot that Wampa is not a JML requirement.

    Oh wow 👏 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 we got a genius here people
  • Ultra
    6663 posts Member
    Let’s get SEE
    08jg45sc4p8d.pngHmmmm it says it needs EP

    fc526ojxlmh5.png
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Let’s get SEE
    08jg45sc4p8d.pngHmmmm it says it needs EP

    fc526ojxlmh5.png

    Hmmm EP doesn't require 9 toons to be at relic 3, get that through your head
  • Where is the best place to farm Darth Vader?
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Where is the best place to farm Darth Vader?
    Achievements. 50,000 arena wins gets you 15 shards!
  • Inorder to unlock JML, it is necessary that you own JKL, in order to unlock JKL it is a necessity that you own those 9 toons at relic 3(not optional), thus making the requirement to unlock JML 21 toons at relic 3 or above. This is a FACT not an opinion, there is no way for someone to get JKL without those 9 toons at relic 3
This discussion has been closed.