Turn Meter Overflow and Bonus Turns

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Replies

  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    Gas stands up after 10 turns
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    edited November 17
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The TM overflow rules still apply when characters gain bonus turns. Vader ended up at 100% TM when he gained his bonus turn since he had just performed an action. JKA and Ahsoka most likely ended up with some overflow (unless they were at 0% initially in your scenario). Speed is only considered if they are tied on TM overflow.

    This.

    Vader gets his bonus turn and has 0 overflow.

    The other 2 get a bonus turn and turn whatever TM they had into overflow.

    So now a bonus turn grants +100% turn meter instead of bringing a unit’s turn meter to 100%? Is that written down anywhere?

    According to Kyno (a couple of years ago) a turn was defined as 100% TM. Hence gaining a bonus turn would be gaining 100% bonus TM (which couldn't be prevented - but Kyno never confirmed that part AFAIK). The outcome was the same as bringing the TM to 100% (because of the cap) but it was really an addition of 100% TM. That's how I read Kyno's definition back then.

    Since there was no system in place before the change to capture any overflow, that was "the way it worked."

    Now we have a system to capture the overflow, so when it states a toon gets 100% TM they go to 100%. A bonus turn adds 100% TM (just like it did in the past, but either stopped at 100% or it just didnt matter that you were at any number higher than 100%), which now leaves you with 100% and TM overflow, of the TM you had when you gained the bonus turn.

    Gaining 100% bonus turnmeter can still give you an overflow just like gaining a bonus turn can, right? There isn't any difference between gaining 100% bonus TM and gaining a bonus turn in that regard, right?

    The difference between an ability granting 100% TM and granting a bonus turn is how they are tagged.
    Both add 100% TM
    Bonus turn is tagged "bonus_turn"
    100% TM gain (b2 unique) is tagged "speed_recovery"

    So yes both can give you overflow.
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The TM overflow rules still apply when characters gain bonus turns. Vader ended up at 100% TM when he gained his bonus turn since he had just performed an action. JKA and Ahsoka most likely ended up with some overflow (unless they were at 0% initially in your scenario). Speed is only considered if they are tied on TM overflow.

    This.

    Vader gets his bonus turn and has 0 overflow.

    The other 2 get a bonus turn and turn whatever TM they had into overflow.

    So now a bonus turn grants +100% turn meter instead of bringing a unit’s turn meter to 100%? Is that written down anywhere?

    According to Kyno (a couple of years ago) a turn was defined as 100% TM. Hence gaining a bonus turn would be gaining 100% bonus TM (which couldn't be prevented - but Kyno never confirmed that part AFAIK). The outcome was the same as bringing the TM to 100% (because of the cap) but it was really an addition of 100% TM. That's how I read Kyno's definition back then.

    Since there was no system in place before the change to capture any overflow, that was "the way it worked."

    Now we have a system to capture the overflow, so when it states a toon gets 100% TM they go to 100%. A bonus turn adds 100% TM (just like it did in the past, but either stopped at 100% or it just didnt matter that you were at any number higher than 100%), which now leaves you with 100% and TM overflow, of the TM you had when you gained the bonus turn.

    Gaining 100% bonus turnmeter can still give you an overflow just like gaining a bonus turn can, right? There isn't any difference between gaining 100% bonus TM and gaining a bonus turn in that regard, right?

    The difference between an ability granting 100% TM and granting a bonus turn is how they are tagged.
    Both add 100% TM
    Bonus turn is tagged "bonus_turn"
    100% TM gain (b2 unique) is tagged "speed_recovery"

    So yes both can give you overflow.

    I knew that. My intention was to correct Kyno's false statement (that gaining bonus TM doesn't create overflow - only bonus turns do). If you had kept on reading you would have seen that Kyno admitted his mistake in the end.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Did he take his turn or just stand up?

    He stood up and took a turn killing one of my guys, don’t remember which one but guess that’s not important, then my SL kylo took his turn.
    I usually don’t run into GAS teams in arena anymore so it’s hard to test again for me.
    And I don’t want to test in GAC because i don’t want to gamble with the points.

    But I guess from the replies so far this is not the intended behavior?
  • scuba wrote: »
    Gas stands up after 10 turns

    So his turn meter during the cover phase is merely for show then? That would explain this. I guess it’s working as intended then.

  • It's ten total turns on all sides, I believe. The ability doesn't specify Allies or Enemies:

    "Recover 10% Protection and Turn Meter at the end of every turn, which can’t be prevented."
  • Kyno
    26612 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Did he take his turn or just stand up?

    He stood up and took a turn killing one of my guys, don’t remember which one but guess that’s not important, then my SL kylo took his turn.
    I usually don’t run into GAS teams in arena anymore so it’s hard to test again for me.
    And I don’t want to test in GAC because i don’t want to gamble with the points.

    But I guess from the replies so far this is not the intended behavior?

    Yes, this is an issue.

    He should stand up between Hux and Kylo (which I have also seen), but he should not take a turn before Kylo. (Never seen that one)
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Gas stands up after 10 turns

    So his turn meter during the cover phase is merely for show then? That would explain this. I guess it’s working as intended then.

    He gains 10% tm each turn and has 0 speed.
    So tm isn't for show.
    10*10 = 100%
    No I don't think he should move before kylo bonus turn since GAS hits 100% TM and Kylo is granted a bonus turn (so will have over flow) and bonus turns are supposed to go first.

    Could be something weird with it though.
  • Merailla
    75 posts Member
    edited November 18
    Now explain what is happening in this example pls:

    Vader, this time under Palp lead does his AoE during MM and brings GK under 50% HP, JKA that had 30% TM gets bonus turn..But under Palp lead, Vader just landed 7+ debuffs on enemy team and should gain 140+% TM and also bonus turn from MM..Who goes first?
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    Now explain what is happening in this example pls:

    Vader, this time under Palp lead does his AoE during MM and brings GK under 50% HP, JKA that had 30% TM gets bonus turn..But under Palp lead, Vader just landed 7+ debuffs on enemy team and should gain 140+% TM and also bonus turn from MM..Who goes first?

    From the official announcement of the introduction of TM overflow:

    "NOTE #1: Units who have been granted a bonus turn are subject to the same rules, but they will take their turn before anyone who has not been granted a bonus turn. If there are multiple units with a bonus turn, the order is determined by the same criteria: highest overflow, then highest speed, then randomly."
  • Waqui wrote: »
    From the official announcement of the introduction of TM overflow:

    "NOTE #1: Units who have been granted a bonus turn are subject to the same rules, but they will take their turn before anyone who has not been granted a bonus turn. If there are multiple units with a bonus turn, the order is determined by the same criteria: highest overflow, then highest speed, then randomly."

    I can read, now pls answer the question..who has more TM overflow in this case...?
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    Now explain what is happening in this example pls:

    Vader, this time under Palp lead does his AoE during MM and brings GK under 50% HP, JKA that had 30% TM gets bonus turn..But under Palp lead, Vader just landed 7+ debuffs on enemy team and should gain 140+% TM and also bonus turn from MM..Who goes first?

    Test it out and tell us
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    From the official announcement of the introduction of TM overflow:

    "NOTE #1: Units who have been granted a bonus turn are subject to the same rules, but they will take their turn before anyone who has not been granted a bonus turn. If there are multiple units with a bonus turn, the order is determined by the same criteria: highest overflow, then highest speed, then randomly."

    I can read, now pls answer the question..who has more TM overflow in this case...?

    You have your answer in what you quoted. Please use your reading skills.
  • Merailla
    75 posts Member
    edited November 19
    OK, JKA goes first in this case btw..surprised @Waqui ?

    How is this answered in that quote, pls tell me...there is nothing about if the TM gain from skills or lead adds TM to bonus turn TM overflow..
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    OK, JKA goes first in this case btw..surprised @Waqui ?

    How is this answered in that quote, pls tell me...there is nothing about if the TM gain from skills or lead adds TM to bonus turn TM overflow..

    There is everything you need to know about cases where multiple characters gained a bonus turn. But of course you need to understand it to see it.

    If what you see doesn't comply with the official announcement/description of the mechanism I'd recommend to report it as a bug.
  • My guess is that the damage from FC is what caused GK to drop below 50%. If so, that means the debuffs haven't been applied yet, so JKA's bonus turn is triggered right there, meaning he has his BT before Vader's from MM + overflow from debuffs. It's an order of operations thing, like zOld Ben taunting through Fracture.
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    My guess is that the damage from FC is what caused GK to drop below 50%. If so, that means the debuffs haven't been applied yet, so JKA's bonus turn is triggered right there, meaning he has his BT before Vader's from MM + overflow from debuffs. It's an order of operations thing, like zOld Ben taunting through Fracture.

    I am thinking this is it also, because they are making bonus turns go first, JKA gets his bonus turn triggered before Vader, wouldn't be the first time something did work as planned.

    Also @Merailla how do you know jka is at 30% tm when it happens? Guess or did you math it?
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    edited November 19
    scuba wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    My guess is that the damage from FC is what caused GK to drop below 50%. If so, that means the debuffs haven't been applied yet, so JKA's bonus turn is triggered right there, meaning he has his BT before Vader's from MM + overflow from debuffs. It's an order of operations thing, like zOld Ben taunting through Fracture.

    I am thinking this is it also, because they are making bonus turns go first, JKA gets his bonus turn triggered before Vader, wouldn't be the first time something did work as planned.

    Also Merailla how do you know jka is at 30% tm when it happens? Guess or did you math it?

    I take it back. It looks like while vader has the merciless buff he is prevented from tm gains (speed_recovery)
    fh58g04c206k.png

    So no matter how many debuffs he lands he will have 0 overflow
    It even says so in his ability
    Merciless: +50% Offense, +25% Critical Chance, and +50% Critical Damage; immune to Fear, Stun, and Turn Meter manipulation and Darth Vader's bonus turns do not trigger other characters' effects based on bonus turns or Turn Meter gain
  • scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    My guess is that the damage from FC is what caused GK to drop below 50%. If so, that means the debuffs haven't been applied yet, so JKA's bonus turn is triggered right there, meaning he has his BT before Vader's from MM + overflow from debuffs. It's an order of operations thing, like zOld Ben taunting through Fracture.

    I am thinking this is it also, because they are making bonus turns go first, JKA gets his bonus turn triggered before Vader, wouldn't be the first time something did work as planned.

    Also Merailla how do you know jka is at 30% tm when it happens? Guess or did you math it?

    I take it back. It looks like while vader has the merciless buff he is prevented from tm gains (speed_recovery)
    fh58g04c206k.png

    So no matter how many debuffs he lands he will have 0 overflow
    It even says so in his ability
    Merciless: +50% Offense, +25% Critical Chance, and +50% Critical Damage; immune to Fear, Stun, and Turn Meter manipulation and Darth Vader's bonus turns do not trigger other characters' effects based on bonus turns or Turn Meter gain

    Thx for being helpful unlike @Waqui

  • Well that does it then. He's just getting a 100% natural bonus turn whereas Anakin is getting his plus overflow.
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Vendi1983 wrote: »
    My guess is that the damage from FC is what caused GK to drop below 50%. If so, that means the debuffs haven't been applied yet, so JKA's bonus turn is triggered right there, meaning he has his BT before Vader's from MM + overflow from debuffs. It's an order of operations thing, like zOld Ben taunting through Fracture.

    I am thinking this is it also, because they are making bonus turns go first, JKA gets his bonus turn triggered before Vader, wouldn't be the first time something did work as planned.

    Also Merailla how do you know jka is at 30% tm when it happens? Guess or did you math it?

    I take it back. It looks like while vader has the merciless buff he is prevented from tm gains (speed_recovery)
    fh58g04c206k.png

    So no matter how many debuffs he lands he will have 0 overflow
    It even says so in his ability
    Merciless: +50% Offense, +25% Critical Chance, and +50% Critical Damage; immune to Fear, Stun, and Turn Meter manipulation and Darth Vader's bonus turns do not trigger other characters' effects based on bonus turns or Turn Meter gain

    Thx for being helpful unlike @Waqui

    It's obviously easier for you to resolve to personal attacks than to admit your own mistake in your description of the scenario. Well, done, @Merailla. *golf clap*
  • Merailla
    75 posts Member
    edited November 19
    @Waqui If you would have posted the MM description, I would have said thx to you..But you did not, did you? You posted obvious stuff that has nothing to do with my question what so ever.
  • Waqui
    7844 posts Member
    Merailla wrote: »
    If you would have posted the MM description, I would have said thx to you..

    You made a mistake. I tried to help. I don't need your gratitude. Just skip the personal attacks.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Merailla wrote: »
    If you would have posted the MM description, I would have said thx to you..

    You made a mistake. I tried to help. I don't need your gratitude. Just skip the personal attacks.

    I think i have solution to this. I will add you to my ignore list, pls do the same.
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