matchmaking with 2 fleet spots

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HerderOfNerf
137 posts Member
edited September 29
I didn't think matchmaking could get any dumber when I was regularly getting matched with players with 1.5M more GP. As the title says, CG proved me wrong.

They added a second fleet on defense. So now we need four fleets for GA. And none of it counts towards matchmaking. I don't even have enough lvl 85, 7-star ships to field four fleets. But in their infinite wisdom, they match me entirely with players who have been playing for two years longer and have half a million more GP in ships alone.

I shouldn't have to dump massive resources into ships just to get a fair match. I can't seeing as they're releasing two new GL every six months. Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • Wow. I never thought of that. So let's say I save my Neg and Mal for offense and my opponent sets both on defense. How is my mal going to win a mirror with a four-star hyena and no vulture? It's not.

    If they're going to make ships a major part of GA, they need to include ship GP in matchmaking.
  • Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun?

    *Sandbox mode!
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    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    The worst of the worst players complained until CG tilted matchmaking in their favor. Now they're doing it to an extreme extent. So no, I'm not worried about making GA fun for them.
  • @Nikoms565 I kept saying on other topics, it doesn't like ships get calculated in any way before. But it's much harder to verify for me since everyone has everything at this gp so it might be canceling each other out.

    @HerderOfNerf can you help us figure this out please? Since you have a significant difference of ships with your opponent we might be able to see if your top x toon gp matches closely while ship doesn't. The best way to do this is hotbot since it displays exact values. Command is "!compare ally code". If you never used it, DSRbot's ",ga me ally code" should do fine.
  • Ship GP isn't accounted for at all. afbrsilqakzs.png
  • Also if this really is the case, it will be a legitimate demand from cg and when mm expands to involve it, your current disadvantage will be reversed.
  • Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.
  • Froggyogy wrote: »
    Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.


    Lol. Looks like you started playing yesterday. You don't even have a 7-star capital ship. Get back to me when every resource you have goes into farming GL. And then tell me how you're going to farm additional fleets that take more resources than you've put in your entire roster.
  • Ship GP isn't accounted for at all. afbrsilqakzs.png

    Ship gp won't be counted in it's totality even if mm involved it. What we need to look into is something like top 28 ship gp I think. Neither bot shows anything as such. At least with hotbot we get to see if your top toon gp is close enough in exact numbers to suspect ship gp is excluded.
  • He has every ship except for two at lvl 85, 7-stars. That's 40 ships. I have 28. I don't see any way that's factored into matchmaking.
  • Kyno
    25874 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    There’s not enough ships for necessitating 4 ships for GAC yet. Each capital ship needs 7 ships. We have 8 capital ships. That necessitates 56 ships. We have 43 currently and many are specific to their faction and some that are needed for multiple capital ship strategies. Not to mention many don’t have Finalizer or Raddus close to 7* to be viable.

    Bottom line we need more ships.

    I dont agree with your conclusion, but your math is wrong.

    yes each capital ship needs 7 ships. but we only need 4 capital ships for 2 squads in GAC. so 28 total ships for 4 capital ships. so yes we have that, but we still need more with synergy.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    There’s not enough ships for necessitating 4 ships for GAC yet. Each capital ship needs 7 ships. We have 8 capital ships. That necessitates 56 ships. We have 43 currently and many are specific to their faction and some that are needed for multiple capital ship strategies. Not to mention many don’t have Finalizer or Raddus close to 7* to be viable.

    Bottom line we need more ships.

    I dont agree with your conclusion, but your math is wrong.

    yes each capital ship needs 7 ships. but we only need 4 capital ships for 2 squads in GAC. so 28 total ships for 4 capital ships. so yes we have that, but we still need more with synergy.

    Don’t you think we need more ships?
    I don’t like ships but I really think we need more ships.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    There’s not enough ships for necessitating 4 ships for GAC yet. Each capital ship needs 7 ships. We have 8 capital ships. That necessitates 56 ships. We have 43 currently and many are specific to their faction and some that are needed for multiple capital ship strategies. Not to mention many don’t have Finalizer or Raddus close to 7* to be viable.

    Bottom line we need more ships.

    I dont agree with your conclusion, but your math is wrong.

    yes each capital ship needs 7 ships. but we only need 4 capital ships for 2 squads in GAC. so 28 total ships for 4 capital ships. so yes we have that, but we still need more with synergy.

    Just because we need only 4 doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have more. There aren’t enough ships for the expansion. For most, 3 of those ships will be Negotiator, Malevolence and Ackbar. That’s 21 ships alone and many of them like the bugs and hounds tooth are taken up that are needed for the strategies with the other capital ships. The remaining capital ships are Mace (trash and no GR ships left after Negotiator), Executrix (which doesn’t have enough empire ships Or the bugs after Mal), Thrawn (which lacks the proper empire ship or bugs after Mal) and finally raddus and Finalizer which most players don’t have 7* and neither have close to enough ships for synergy.

    So aside from being picky about my math, which technically is right, we don’t have enough ships and need more. Hence this was a premature move for GAC’s and was a bad move by CG.
  • What it comes down to is CG is trying to find a way to force people to use more resources on ships. And as a result, force p2p players to spend more on ships. As usual, they're going about it the wrong way. If they want ships to be relevant, they should make more content for ships. And maybe, just maybe, focus on making that content original and fun to play. Instead of a lazy re-skin of something that already exists.
  • Froggyogy wrote: »
    Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.


    Lol. Looks like you started playing yesterday. You don't even have a 7-star capital ship. Get back to me when every resource you have goes into farming GL. And then tell me how you're going to farm additional fleets that take more resources than you've put in your entire roster.

    You are in div 1, with only 1 or 2 semi viable fleets. Still your issue with not farming them. No need to push that onto others... I stalled out getting my negotiator to 7 stars so I could unlock the mal, just for another fleet. And if you do a mirror match if you have both the negotiator and malevolence, maybe you need to rethink your strategy... If your opponent sets both on defense, why would you intentionally go for a Mirror match when neg can take on mal on defense and mal can take on neg on defense... seems pointless...

    So, I’m the end, I agree with Froggyogy... this is your fault for not farming fleets. Yes, CG should include ships into match making, but what would that do...

    You have three options,
    1- you get someone super focused on Squads but not fleets
    2-you get someone super focused on fleets but not squads
    3- you get a mix...
    Seems like you just want to pick and choose for an easy win...


    Also, before you do say anything, I am close to 5.3m, with an even roster as fleets is easy crystals every day... much easier than squads. So...


  • You adapt an overcome. You make do with what you have. Make a note that you will need to invest in fleets as part of your plan for resource allocation, settle in for ride and play the game.
  • Froggyogy wrote: »
    Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.


    Lol. Looks like you started playing yesterday. You don't even have a 7-star capital ship. Get back to me when every resource you have goes into farming GL. And then tell me how you're going to farm additional fleets that take more resources than you've put in your entire roster.

    You are in div 1, with only 1 or 2 semi viable fleets. Still your issue with not farming them. No need to push that onto others... I stalled out getting my negotiator to 7 stars so I could unlock the mal, just for another fleet. And if you do a mirror match if you have both the negotiator and malevolence, maybe you need to rethink your strategy... If your opponent sets both on defense, why would you intentionally go for a Mirror match when neg can take on mal on defense and mal can take on neg on defense... seems pointless...

    So, I’m the end, I agree with Froggyogy... this is your fault for not farming fleets. Yes, CG should include ships into match making, but what would that do...

    You have three options,
    1- you get someone super focused on Squads but not fleets
    2-you get someone super focused on fleets but not squads
    3- you get a mix...
    Seems like you just want to pick and choose for an easy win...


    Also, before you do say anything, I am close to 5.3m, with an even roster as fleets is easy crystals every day... much easier than squads. So...


    There are only 2 meta fleets. Neg and Mal. If you had read what I wrote, you would know my mal can't beat neg or mal.

    The problem with matchmaking is they match players who have been playing for vastly different periods of time. Players who have been playing for two years longer already have a lot of the prerequisites for GL before they're announced. So they spend less time farming them and are able to farm other things. Like ships.

    Players who haven't played as long have to put every resource they have into those prerequisites just to keep up.

    But that's all besides the point. Your argument is that it's the players fault if their opponent has a huge advantage in ships. Why not apply that same logic, or the lack thereof, to toons? Why not match someone with 2M GP top 80 toons with someone with 1M GP? It's their fault they didn't put the resources into them. Never mind they haven't played long enough to do it.
  • He has every ship except for two at lvl 85, 7-stars. That's 40 ships. I have 28. I don't see any way that's factored into matchmaking.

    Just like mm isn't counted by the # toons you have at 7* lvl 85, neither would ships be counted that way. This doesn't give much insight.

    I'm willing to do it manually (between both sides top 28 ships) if you don't mind putting both your ally codes.
  • Froggyogy wrote: »
    Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.


    Lol. Looks like you started playing yesterday. You don't even have a 7-star capital ship. Get back to me when every resource you have goes into farming GL. And then tell me how you're going to farm additional fleets that take more resources than you've put in your entire roster.

    You are in div 1, with only 1 or 2 semi viable fleets. Still your issue with not farming them. No need to push that onto others... I stalled out getting my negotiator to 7 stars so I could unlock the mal, just for another fleet. And if you do a mirror match if you have both the negotiator and malevolence, maybe you need to rethink your strategy... If your opponent sets both on defense, why would you intentionally go for a Mirror match when neg can take on mal on defense and mal can take on neg on defense... seems pointless...

    So, I’m the end, I agree with Froggyogy... this is your fault for not farming fleets. Yes, CG should include ships into match making, but what would that do...

    You have three options,
    1- you get someone super focused on Squads but not fleets
    2-you get someone super focused on fleets but not squads
    3- you get a mix...
    Seems like you just want to pick and choose for an easy win...


    Also, before you do say anything, I am close to 5.3m, with an even roster as fleets is easy crystals every day... much easier than squads. So...


    There are only 2 meta fleets. Neg and Mal. If you had read what I wrote, you would know my mal can't beat neg or mal.

    The problem with matchmaking is they match players who have been playing for vastly different periods of time. Players who have been playing for two years longer already have a lot of the prerequisites for GL before they're announced. So they spend less time farming them and are able to farm other things. Like ships.

    Players who haven't played as long have to put every resource they have into those prerequisites just to keep up.

    But that's all besides the point. Your argument is that it's the players fault if their opponent has a huge advantage in ships. Why not apply that same logic, or the lack thereof, to toons? Why not match someone with 2M GP top 80 toons with someone with 1M GP? It's their fault they didn't put the resources into them. Never mind they haven't played long enough to do it.

    Um, first off, I would blame the player if they got to 5m GP and still didn’t have the correct toons...

    Second off, whilst meta, other fleets can beat negotiator and malevolence... Admittedly it would take a while, but tie bomber with empire can beat neg...
    next, I did read what you wrote, and if you are unable to get your mal to beat mal or neg, them, as stated before hand, you haven’t put much time into it... I have a 4 star bomber and 5 star vulture droid, 7 star geos and 6 star IG 2000, yet, can beat neg and mal... all about timing. Buzz droids do most the work anyway. Just get them out, have sun fad, vulture and bomber in starting line up nd don’t call reinforcements. Only use special abilities. Reinforce when you lose one of your starting ships... AI plays very badly for mal on defense...

    If you are unable to win though, maybe put some time into fleet. As I stated before, it’s a great source of crystals. You basically get back what you put in.

  • I think all of you are beating on herderofnerd unjustly right away. If mm is really comparing the ships both sides are using along with top x toons, it's all on him to not have functional teams.

    For a second let's pause that try to figure out if that's the case. If the mm is not comparing ships, he's fully justified to make a matter of this and it's a developer problem.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    He has every ship except for two at lvl 85, 7-stars. That's 40 ships. I have 28. I don't see any way that's factored into matchmaking.

    Just like mm isn't counted by the # toons you have at 7* lvl 85, neither would ships be counted that way. This doesn't give much insight.

    I'm willing to do it manually (between both sides top 28 ships) if you don't mind putting both your ally codes.

    I admire your passion for swgoh
  • Froggyogy wrote: »
    Since I can't possibly win, I'll no longer participate in GA. I'll just set every meta squad on defense and it won't be fun for anyone. Not that CG ever cared about players having fun.

    I get the frustration. I don't get the response. You won't have fun, so you want to ruin other people's fun? Are you a child?

    Facts. The OP is also literally getting mad over something that is their fault. If you don't have good Negotiator AND Malevolence fleets by the time you are up there, that is entirely your fault. I am in Division 7 right now and I have two perfectly viable offensive and defensive fleets and a well rounded roster and I am probably a third or a fourth of your GP. And also, farming Vulture droid and Hyena bomber are not massive resources, they don't even require characters so I don't know what you mean by that. Obviously the matchmaking can and will be unfair at times but many times that's because you did not plan out your roster efficiently.


    Lol. Looks like you started playing yesterday. You don't even have a 7-star capital ship. Get back to me when every resource you have goes into farming GL. And then tell me how you're going to farm additional fleets that take more resources than you've put in your entire roster.

    You are in div 1, with only 1 or 2 semi viable fleets. Still your issue with not farming them. No need to push that onto others... I stalled out getting my negotiator to 7 stars so I could unlock the mal, just for another fleet. And if you do a mirror match if you have both the negotiator and malevolence, maybe you need to rethink your strategy... If your opponent sets both on defense, why would you intentionally go for a Mirror match when neg can take on mal on defense and mal can take on neg on defense... seems pointless...

    So, I’m the end, I agree with Froggyogy... this is your fault for not farming fleets. Yes, CG should include ships into match making, but what would that do...

    You have three options,
    1- you get someone super focused on Squads but not fleets
    2-you get someone super focused on fleets but not squads
    3- you get a mix...
    Seems like you just want to pick and choose for an easy win...


    Also, before you do say anything, I am close to 5.3m, with an even roster as fleets is easy crystals every day... much easier than squads. So...


    There are only 2 meta fleets. Neg and Mal. If you had read what I wrote, you would know my mal can't beat neg or mal.

    The problem with matchmaking is they match players who have been playing for vastly different periods of time. Players who have been playing for two years longer already have a lot of the prerequisites for GL before they're announced. So they spend less time farming them and are able to farm other things. Like ships.

    Players who haven't played as long have to put every resource they have into those prerequisites just to keep up.

    But that's all besides the point. Your argument is that it's the players fault if their opponent has a huge advantage in ships. Why not apply that same logic, or the lack thereof, to toons? Why not match someone with 2M GP top 80 toons with someone with 1M GP? It's their fault they didn't put the resources into them. Never mind they haven't played long enough to do it.

    Um, first off, I would blame the player if they got to 5m GP and still didn’t have the correct toons...

    Second off, whilst meta, other fleets can beat negotiator and malevolence... Admittedly it would take a while, but tie bomber with empire can beat neg...
    next, I did read what you wrote, and if you are unable to get your mal to beat mal or neg, them, as stated before hand, you haven’t put much time into it... I have a 4 star bomber and 5 star vulture droid, 7 star geos and 6 star IG 2000, yet, can beat neg and mal... all about timing. Buzz droids do most the work anyway. Just get them out, have sun fad, vulture and bomber in starting line up nd don’t call reinforcements. Only use special abilities. Reinforce when you lose one of your starting ships... AI plays very badly for mal on defense...

    If you are unable to win though, maybe put some time into fleet. As I stated before, it’s a great source of crystals. You basically get back what you put in.

    Hyena and vulture both require regular energy. You know what else requires regular energy? Almost every toon required for GL. So to stay close to the meta, you have to prioritize those farms. And at the rate CG is releasing GL, it's not possible to farm GL while spending resources on fleet. Or anything else for that matter.

    And again, that's beside the point. If they're are going to make ships a major part of GA (and by doubling the fleets, they did) they should include ships in matchmaking.

    But thanks for the tips. I've been trying to figure out how to improve in fleet arena.

    84d80kvefte6.png
  • Jppc wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    He has every ship except for two at lvl 85, 7-stars. That's 40 ships. I have 28. I don't see any way that's factored into matchmaking.

    Just like mm isn't counted by the # toons you have at 7* lvl 85, neither would ships be counted that way. This doesn't give much insight.

    I'm willing to do it manually (between both sides top 28 ships) if you don't mind putting both your ally codes.

    I admire your passion for swgoh

    Thanks. It's something of huge impact to verify this. I don't understand when there's endless discussions about mm that people aren't remotely interested in this side of it and just assume it would be working fine.
  • GAC is involves ships. regardless of what MM does, Its at your own risk to not invest in ships for a game mode that involves ships.

    Its not like, all of a sudden GAC changed to involve ships, its been part of the mode since day 1.

    My other comment is, so what you get a round where you are overmatched in ships? I guarantee you will get future matchups where you out ship your opponent .

    There has been one constant I have observed in GAC since day 1, there is always someone better than you, someone worse than you and someone in the same boat.
  • rickertron wrote: »
    GAC is involves ships. regardless of what MM does, Its at your own risk to not invest in ships for a game mode that involves ships.

    Its not like, all of a sudden GAC changed to involve ships, its been part of the mode since day 1.

    My other comment is, so what you get a round where you are overmatched in ships? I guarantee you will get future matchups where you out ship your opponent .

    There has been one constant I have observed in GAC since day 1, there is always someone better than you, someone worse than you and someone in the same boat.

    It's not one round. I'm at 5.2M GP and almost every single match I get is over 6M GP. I get matched almost exclusively with day one players who have been able to farm ships as they go without sacrificing keeping up with the meta. Players should be matched who have been playing for roughly the same amount of time.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    There’s not enough ships for necessitating 4 ships for GAC yet. Each capital ship needs 7 ships. We have 8 capital ships. That necessitates 56 ships. We have 43 currently and many are specific to their faction and some that are needed for multiple capital ship strategies. Not to mention many don’t have Finalizer or Raddus close to 7* to be viable.

    Bottom line we need more ships.

    I dont agree with your conclusion, but your math is wrong.

    yes each capital ship needs 7 ships. but we only need 4 capital ships for 2 squads in GAC. so 28 total ships for 4 capital ships. so yes we have that, but we still need more with synergy.

    Sorry Kyno but your math leaves no room for error on ship battles which is pretty unreasonable

    Unlike characters, ships have much less flexibility in making up with whatever you have left, so it’s much tougher to clean up battles without using everything you have available. There needs to be more fleets to clean up battles

    Some fleets are downright awful while others feel very incomplete
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