Which one is stronger Luke or Palp?

Replies

  • Ultra
    11454 posts Moderator
    I also think its too early to judge SEE, JML until the ultimates are out

    Yes, we have seen some videos of ultimate JML on defense, but those were very early videos against some heavy krakens with no knowledge of how it was modded

    As more players get JML with different modding setups, we might be able to determine how good or bad they actually are
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Except I specifically said he wasn't broken (read my quote to which you were responding) - and you disagreed anyway:
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    I think we should all stop watching new videos of the new GL. Wait 1 or 2 months and watch again.
    All the videos which are out there now are useless. One day they say something another day it s the opposite

    Oh, have we found the JML team that gets to ult on defense against DR?

    Is that a requirement? Does every new character have to dominate every team?

    Did CG explicitly state that jml would dominate Darth Revan?

    The answer to all of those is no. You may not like that your new toy isn't all powerful but that doesn't mean that it is broken.

    If the most resource-intensive GL in the game can easily be beaten by a single-team meta from over a year ago, while not broken, it is certainly a cause for people to raise concerns.

    Maybe. But not every new character is designed to be meta. And that is certainly the case when they release them 2 at a time.

    People assumed because he requires a lot of resources he'd be the best. But CG stated they would be comparable to other GLs. So basically good but not meta.

    If you assume and spend a ton of money to get a character you only have yourself to blame.

    And not meta doesn't mean useless.

    1. He beats SLKR on offense. I'm sure that helps some people climb with him even if he isn't perfect.

    2. Probably good for ls tb

    3. Another GL on defense or a counter to SLKR in GAC. Most of the teams that counter him are the same ones that counter Rey or Kylo so they can not be used for one.

    4. CG may have a new game mode in mind where jml dominate. Who knows

    Details. You're welcome. Strawman...again.

    Done.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Lol you contracted bugs to intention/power differential (which we can't possibly know, but only interpret). That indeed is a strawman. If something not being buggy was enough for it to never change and cg was infallible with their intentions we would have never seen the changes we saw countless times.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Except I specifically said he wasn't broken (read my quote to which you were responding) - and you disagreed anyway:
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    I think we should all stop watching new videos of the new GL. Wait 1 or 2 months and watch again.
    All the videos which are out there now are useless. One day they say something another day it s the opposite

    Oh, have we found the JML team that gets to ult on defense against DR?

    Is that a requirement? Does every new character have to dominate every team?

    Did CG explicitly state that jml would dominate Darth Revan?

    The answer to all of those is no. You may not like that your new toy isn't all powerful but that doesn't mean that it is broken.

    If the most resource-intensive GL in the game can easily be beaten by a single-team meta from over a year ago, while not broken, it is certainly a cause for people to raise concerns.

    Maybe. But not every new character is designed to be meta. And that is certainly the case when they release them 2 at a time.

    People assumed because he requires a lot of resources he'd be the best. But CG stated they would be comparable to other GLs. So basically good but not meta.

    If you assume and spend a ton of money to get a character you only have yourself to blame.

    And not meta doesn't mean useless.

    1. He beats SLKR on offense. I'm sure that helps some people climb with him even if he isn't perfect.

    2. Probably good for ls tb

    3. Another GL on defense or a counter to SLKR in GAC. Most of the teams that counter him are the same ones that counter Rey or Kylo so they can not be used for one.

    4. CG may have a new game mode in mind where jml dominate. Who knows

    Details. You're welcome. Strawman...again.

    Done.

    So where in the 2nd quote do I say he's broken. I said maybe to something. That indicates that it's too early to tell which is my position.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Lol you contracted bugs to intention/power differential (which we can't possibly know, but only interpret). That indeed is a strawman. If something not being buggy was enough for it to never change and cg was infallible with their intentions we would have never seen the changes we saw countless times.

    And we may very well see changes. I never said we wouldn't. With the evidence I've seen, I don't think we will. But that evidence is limited. That's why I've said it's too soon to tell.

    The fact that the "description" argument hasn't changed my mind doesn't mean it can't be changed.

    I think we'll see more of what he can do when more of the smaller whales get him. No offense but my experience is that a lot of krackens rely on spending large sums of cash to win and by using cash as a crutch aren't really that great at nodding or theory crafting.

    And being that the only jmls out there with ultimates are probably krackens, we likely won't see the best modding or team comps for a few more weeks when the dolphins and more hardcore ftp get him.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Lol you contracted bugs to intention/power differential (which we can't possibly know, but only interpret). That indeed is a strawman. If something not being buggy was enough for it to never change and cg was infallible with their intentions we would have never seen the changes we saw countless times.

    And we may very well see changes. I never said we wouldn't. With the evidence I've seen, I don't think we will. But that evidence is limited. That's why I've said it's too soon to tell.

    The fact that the "description" argument hasn't changed my mind doesn't mean it can't be changed.

    I think we'll see more of what he can do when more of the smaller whales get him. No offense but my experience is that a lot of krackens rely on spending large sums of cash to win and by using cash as a crutch aren't really that great at nodding or theory crafting.

    And being that the only jmls out there with ultimates are probably krackens, we likely won't see the best modding or team comps for a few more weeks when the dolphins and more hardcore ftp get him.

    As an f2p close to running the event, I'm on the hoard/wait mode. Depending on the outcome I'll shift to SEE first (even if I'll surely get JML too)
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.

    My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.

    I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?

    Please provide details.

    Lol you contracted bugs to intention/power differential (which we can't possibly know, but only interpret). That indeed is a strawman. If something not being buggy was enough for it to never change and cg was infallible with their intentions we would have never seen the changes we saw countless times.

    And we may very well see changes. I never said we wouldn't. With the evidence I've seen, I don't think we will. But that evidence is limited. That's why I've said it's too soon to tell.

    The fact that the "description" argument hasn't changed my mind doesn't mean it can't be changed.

    I think we'll see more of what he can do when more of the smaller whales get him. No offense but my experience is that a lot of krackens rely on spending large sums of cash to win and by using cash as a crutch aren't really that great at nodding or theory crafting.

    And being that the only jmls out there with ultimates are probably krackens, we likely won't see the best modding or team comps for a few more weeks when the dolphins and more hardcore ftp get him.

    As an f2p close to running the event, I'm on the hoard/wait mode. Depending on the outcome I'll shift to SEE first (even if I'll surely get JML too)

    I went for PP and I'm about halfway on the requirements but will probably go for jml after that.

    I am ftp and wasn't close enough to get jkl the second time so there was no point in going for jml when you can't get that prerequisite. And I tend to play with more anyway. My ds roster is much more developed than ls. Except for first order.

    And there's nothing wrong with hoarding and waiting. But I think jml will likely work out fine. Yeah, he can be countered by Darth revan but so can Rey. I haven't seen either of the new GLs hit my shard yet but I bet they both will hold ok on defense. Though nothing holds super well on defense.

    I can crush Rey on offense with vader. But the Rey teams still hold as well as any. I really only see a few people running a counter while there are at least a dozen GAS teams sitting in the 40s or 50s that could probably counter the current GLs if they put some effort in. I think it'll be the same with jml.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    No, I haven't. No, it isn't.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    Just because Starson hasn't personally tested him, doesn't mean it's too early to voice concerns if other people have tested him and posted multiple videos. Do we have to wait until every player has unlocked a character before we can voice concerns now? Please, continue to change the rules of your argument. Make this an even bigger waste of everyone's time.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    No, I haven't. No, it isn't.

    Ok so that video is evidence? It shows one battle. It doesn't show the mods of the attacking team or the defending team.

    Yes it shows the team is beatable. Every team is beatable. And every GL has at least one non GL counter. For the purpose of tw or gac, if your opponent has to waste Revan, Gas, and jkl for a counter, it's not a bad defensive team.

    So how does this prove that Jml need fixing?
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    Just because Starson hasn't personally tested him, doesn't mean it's too early to voice concerns if other people have tested him and posted multiple videos. Do we have to wait until every player has unlocked a character before we can voice concerns now? Please, continue to change the rules of your argument. Make this an even bigger waste of everyone's time.

    I think we need to wait until more have. And if he personally had him and tested him, I may put a little bit more weight into what he's said. But he is only going off the incomplete evidence such as the video he linked to.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    No, I haven't. No, it isn't.

    Ok so that video is evidence? It shows one battle. It doesn't show the mods of the attacking team or the defending team.

    Yes it shows the team is beatable. Every team is beatable. And every GL has at least one non GL counter. For the purpose of tw or gac, if your opponent has to waste Revan, Gas, and jkl for a counter, it's not a bad defensive team.

    So how does this prove that Jml need fixing?

    Never once said he shouldn't be beatable, though I do contend that he should not be hard-countered by a team as old as DR like he is. Which is why this proves he needs fixing: his AI doesn't prioritize Jedi Teachings which means he'll never get to ultimate. Further, he should be able to get to his ultimate if he's not the leader. As things stand, this will almost definitley not be possible in any pvp match because he will need to take 50 turns to charge up.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
    Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
    Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
    even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.

    Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.

    But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.

    So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?

    Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.

    No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.

    So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.

    I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.

    On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.

    I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?

    Nope just means the counter is effective.

    My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.

    If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?

    No. Because GL's are, by CG's stated intentions, supposed to be plug and play. "Has to be a leader" is not the same as plug and play.

    And I don't think he's bugged. Not sure I've said he is. I think he's weak, and considering the investment, that's asinine. His AI should be smart enough to get him to ultimate, and it currently is not.

    And people should be smart enough to look at his kit and decide if it'll work before spending thousands to get him. No one forced you to buy jml.

    I've only seen a couple of videos of him on defense and I'm not sure if those even had the ultimate unlocked. So it is impossible to say whether his ai can get to the ultimate on defense in a normal battle.

    So for now I don't know if his ai is working or not. I default to assuming it is unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    I spent $0 on his pre-requisites, and will spend $0 on him. What does that have to do with anything?

    But no, it's not impossible to say his AI can't get to ultimate on defense.

    Do you have him and his ultimate unlocked? Have you seen more than the few videos on YouTube? If so please share your information.

    Since you said you have spent $0 on him, I'm going to guess you don't have him yet.

    Nope, should unlock in a couple days, ultimate probably 10 days after. Go check out Vego's other videos. There are a lot. The one I like the best at the moment is "JKR (non-GL comp) beats Bastila led Unkillable JML comp".

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNp-UAo3T69NH2PWrwgLIQ

    So you haven't tested him then. So it's too early to tell.

    No, I haven't. No, it isn't.

    Ok so that video is evidence? It shows one battle. It doesn't show the mods of the attacking team or the defending team.

    Yes it shows the team is beatable. Every team is beatable. And every GL has at least one non GL counter. For the purpose of tw or gac, if your opponent has to waste Revan, Gas, and jkl for a counter, it's not a bad defensive team.

    So how does this prove that Jml need fixing?

    Never once said he shouldn't be beatable, though I do contend that he should not be hard-countered by a team as old as DR like he is. Which is why this proves he needs fixing: his AI doesn't prioritize Jedi Teachings which means he'll never get to ultimate. Further, he should be able to get to his ultimate if he's not the leader. As things stand, this will almost definitley not be possible in any pvp match because he will need to take 50 turns to charge up.

    I disagree that he shouldn't be beatable by a certain team because you feel it is too old. I think having counters to GLs is important. Darth Revan seems like an ok one for jml to me. So agree to disagree on that one. Whether CG agrees and nerfs Darth revan we'll have to wait and see. I really hope they don't since it would probably require massive changes to either Darth revan or jml to do so. And I'm not a big fan of massive changes.

    As far as the ai goes, they may or may not make changes there. I don't think the ai should be perfect but we can agree to disagree on that too.

    Another idea may be using gmy to spread jedi teachings. I would think that it would spread like other buffs so that may get the ultimate there quicker.

    I haven't seen that tested yet. It would also put tenacity up so that would make Darth revan have a harder time.

  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Jedi Teachings cannot be copied.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Only because the books don't fit in a copier though.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Only because the books don't fit in a copier though.

    Could you imagine the damage if you tried to file them in half and squish them down on the copier? Egads.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Only because the books don't fit in a copier though.

    Could you imagine the damage if you tried to file them in half and squish them down on the copier? Egads.

    tenor.gif?itemid=15541006
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Jedi Teachings cannot be copied.

    Is there an audiobook version? Then R2-D2 could just play it for the team.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Jedi Teachings cannot be copied.

    Gmy's middle ability on an opposing team would be copying it. But if jml gives the ability to gmy on his own team and gmy spreads the buff, that wouldn't be copying the buff.

    My reading of the kit is that an opposing team can't copy the buff. But I haven't tested it.
  • SemiGod
    3001 posts Member
    Palp against teams without Kylo in it

    💀
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    StarSon wrote: »
    Jedi Teachings cannot be copied.

    Gmy's middle ability on an opposing team would be copying it. But if jml gives the ability to gmy on his own team and gmy spreads the buff, that wouldn't be copying the buff.

    My reading of the kit is that an opposing team can't copy the buff. But I haven't tested it.

    It also means it cannot be spread.

    At about 1:01 GMY with Jedi Teachings uses BM and JML's ultimate does not charge further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02p1LKU5ZCk
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    I don’t have the ultimate yet but Rey lead is a hard counter for SEE pre ultimate. Basically, after gearing see and trying many fights agains kylo and Rey. I have concluded that see is the worst of all of them. Not being able to beat Rey with 4 Jedi on the team even without the ultimate, is a problem. I don’t know that having the ultimate is going to change much. I hope it does...
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    I don’t have the ultimate yet but Rey lead is a hard counter for SEE pre ultimate. Basically, after gearing see and trying many fights agains kylo and Rey. I have concluded that see is the worst of all of them. Not being able to beat Rey with 4 Jedi on the team even without the ultimate, is a problem. I don’t know that having the ultimate is going to change much. I hope it does...

    Not beating a GL team with ultimate, by using a GL team without ultimate is not a problem, IMO.

    The ultimate is the end game, end game. It should be what evens out all the GLs (I'm not saying it does right now, but I still think it's a little early in the release cycle to tell)
  • Setting aside the sheer number of counters going as far back as 18 months that JML has, which is another debate. There are 2 fundamental issues with JML as they stand:

    1) Of all 4 GL’s, Luke is the only one that has non gimmick (like fracture) ways to shut down the ultimate from charging up and a vital part of his damage build up - Jedi lessons; and

    2) Of all 4 GL’s he is the weakest , by some distance, from a damage perspective. Kylo, Rey and SEE are all potent on their own which why their ‘plug and play’ role in teams as leads or allies works. It doesn’t work with Luke. He is a wet noodle on his own and even more so when not in the leader slot.

    Having the ultimate won’t change this in any shape or form. The only thing that sets Luke apart from regular tanks is his inflated stats and innate, when zeta’d, 30% reduced damage. He is just a GK with a multiplier of 2.x and that is not anywhere near equivalent to the other 3 GL’s.
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