Which one is stronger Luke or Palp?

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  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    I don’t have the ultimate yet but Rey lead is a hard counter for SEE pre ultimate. Basically, after gearing see and trying many fights agains kylo and Rey. I have concluded that see is the worst of all of them. Not being able to beat Rey with 4 Jedi on the team even without the ultimate, is a problem. I don’t know that having the ultimate is going to change much. I hope it does...

    Not beating a GL team with ultimate, by using a GL team without ultimate is not a problem, IMO.

    The ultimate is the end game, end game. It should be what evens out all the GLs (I'm not saying it does right now, but I still think it's a little early in the release cycle to tell)

    I am sure the ultimate will make a difference, but will it be enough? Rey without the ultimate has been shown as being difficult for see also. I can see it now, see will win when he has the ultimate being the last man standing for low banner wins vs Rey, guaranteed losses vs kylo and low banner wins vs JML. See better be able to auto the sith raise solo...
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Is it correct that it is better to have a Rey without ultimate than a Rey with ultimate ?
    At least in defense
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Is it correct that it is better to have a Rey without ultimate than a Rey with ultimate ?
    At least in defense

    No?
  • Is it correct that it is better to have a Rey without ultimate than a Rey with ultimate ?
    At least in defense

    Why wouldn't you want Rey to have her ultimate? Her ultimate makes her so much harder to face.
  • Idk Ahnaldt said that in one video. Something like she does more often sudden whirldwind but i dont remember exactly
  • InyakSolomon88
    1247 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Idk Ahnaldt said that in one video. Something like she does more often sudden whirldwind but i dont remember exactly

    well i don't have Rey, as res hero Finn has gone from 95/100 to 99/100 the past 3 days and res hero poe is 3/100 but every Rey in my guild, on TW defense, was easily overcome no matter her squad comp before her ult was put on. Once her ult was put on she started putting up bigger defending numbers with upwards of 9-10 defends in one instance. but her more midrange is 2-5 defends. obviously it in part depends on your opponents but I have never heard it suggested to not put her ultimate on.
    Post edited by InyakSolomon88 on
  • Idk Ahnaldt said that in one video. Something like she does more often sudden whirldwind but i dont remember exactly

    There are times in a battle where you have both options available where WW might be preferred, but no, Rey w/ultimate >>>> Rey without. That's even more the case in LSTB (it allows her team a chance to heal up).
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Luke > SEE, the timeout team proves this
    Until the Sith get a character like JKL or GAS to take them to the next level there's no competition
    SEE is ult dependent
    Without it he can't beat Rey
    In General, he loses to Kylo

    I picked two GLs and was wrong both times
    Rey sucks
    SEE sucks
    And I can't believe I still play this game
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    Luke > SEE, the timeout team proves this
    Until the Sith get a character like JKL or GAS to take them to the next level there's no competition
    SEE is ult dependent
    Without it he can't beat Rey
    In General, he loses to Kylo

    I picked two GLs and was wrong both times
    Rey sucks
    SEE sucks
    And I can't believe I still play this game

    I feel your pain. Those are my two also. See is so far behind now though that there is a chance he will get the kylo treatment. I hope so anyway.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • If you have one old and one new GL at this point, it's hard to feel bad for you. Obviously you have the resources to get them quickly enough (what with how new the new GLs are), so just go grab another.

    Do you really have Piett finished but not Sith Trooper? Cuz that would be very, very weird.
  • If you have one old and one new GL at this point, it's hard to feel bad for you. Obviously you have the resources to get them quickly enough (what with how new the new GLs are), so just go grab another.

    Do you really have Piett finished but not Sith Trooper? Cuz that would be very, very weird.

    My FO was bare minimum gear level for BB8 whereas my JTR team was relicd for the HSTR
    I was collecting the Sith and had them all mostly done... on top of that I was waiting for Piett for a long time and got him as soon as he dropped
    I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo

    Pointless comment
    Kylo Beats SEE, Rey, the Raids, solos any other non GL team, Can solo Geonosis TB
    Luke beats Kylo in one niche thing
    Kylo: 99
    Luke: 1
    Really, you think that's equal?
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo

    Pointless comment
    Kylo Beats SEE, Rey, the Raids, solos any other non GL team, Can solo Geonosis TB
    Luke beats Kylo in one niche thing
    Kylo: 99
    Luke: 1
    Really, you think that's equal?

    So you're saying Luke has 99 problems, but Kylo ain't one.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*


  • So you're saying Luke has 99 problems, but Kylo ain't one. [/quote]

    Mostly that this notion of balance is laughable
    Investing in Kylo is more efficient than getting any other GL
    Maybe even the other 3 combined
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo

    Pointless comment
    Kylo Beats SEE, Rey, the Raids, solos any other non GL team, Can solo Geonosis TB
    Luke beats Kylo in one niche thing
    Kylo: 99
    Luke: 1
    Really, you think that's equal?

    No but your argument is silly. Darth Revan beats everyone so why bother investing in any GLs, then? Only need Darth Revan. He kills everybody. Problem solved :smile:
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo

    Pointless comment
    Kylo Beats SEE, Rey, the Raids, solos any other non GL team, Can solo Geonosis TB
    Luke beats Kylo in one niche thing
    Kylo: 99
    Luke: 1
    Really, you think that's equal?

    No but your argument is silly. Darth Revan beats everyone so why bother investing in any GLs, then? Only need Darth Revan. He kills everybody. Problem solved :smile:

    Can I have 5 sith empire teams? I would go undefeated in gac then no problem.
  • yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Can I have 5 sith empire teams? I would go undefeated in gac then no problem.

    I'm still waiting on my other 2 Wats :joy:
  • 1 more thrawn would be nice to.
  • I'm actually closer to Luke than Kylo, but Kylo is indisputably the best GL

    but Luke autos Kylo

    Pointless comment
    Kylo Beats SEE, Rey, the Raids, solos any other non GL team, Can solo Geonosis TB
    Luke beats Kylo in one niche thing
    Kylo: 99
    Luke: 1
    Really, you think that's equal?

    No but your argument is silly. Darth Revan beats everyone so why bother investing in any GLs, then? Only need Darth Revan. He kills everybody. Problem solved :smile:

    Im not wasting anymore of my time on someone using whataboutisms
    Kylo is without a doubt the best GL across the board
    Revan does not beat the timeout Luke team either
    This company falsely advertised again
    Not only are the GLs not equal, but the new ones are both worse than Kylo

    No new content in 2020 and the only exciting thing they did was botched horribly
  • Fhoenix
    191 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    I'm more confused about how they build the ultimate ability... Just thinking about it in very basic terms.

    Luke is the TANK Galactic legend, but his Ultimate is charge by having his team move aggressively.

    SEE is an Attacker, but his ultimate is reliant on the other team attacking his team and needs to be surrounded by tanks.. well or just characters who can handle a lot of damage and or mitigate the incoming damage.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for the Tank to need to take damage to build up his Ult, and the attacker build his up by wrecking the other team?
  • Fhoenix wrote: »
    I'm more confused about how they build the ultimate ability... Just thinking about it in very basic terms.

    Luke is the TANK Galactic legend, but his Ultimate is charge by having his team move aggressively.

    SEE is an Attacker, but his ultimate is reliant on the other team attacking his team and needs to be surrounded by tanks.. well or just characters who can handle a lot of damage and or mitigate the incoming damage.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for the Tank to need to take damage to build up his Ult, and the attacker build his up by wrecking the other team?

    THIS
    Would require the game designers to have played at least one game in their life...

    They should pay attention to design and power creep in MTG
    They've done it for 25 years and don't make fundamental mistakes like this
  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    Luke > SEE, the timeout team proves this
    Until the Sith get a character like JKL or GAS to take them to the next level there's no competition
    SEE is ult dependent
    Without it he can't beat Rey
    In General, he loses to Kylo

    I picked two GLs and was wrong both times
    Rey sucks
    SEE sucks
    And I can't believe I still play this game
    The timeout team is kinda bugged and can be taken out by including han to take out wat before he uses shield tech, so I'm not sure how dramatic this is even if the results of this prot regen party are hilarious. But a lot of players who went for SEE can be forgiven for being immensely disappointed.

    SLKR also solos HSTR, and JML does great in the pve endgame LS TB. They can both do very well in GL battles.

    Both of those GLs have fairly useful requirements--many of SLKR's toons can be used in his squad, and all the kylos can be used pretty effectively to solo weak squads since they have pretty good kits and are immune to %HP damage. JML requirements include a fantastic CLS squad and other toons in his requirements (even though they're hefty), as well as the best fleet of all the GLs.

    As far as Luke v. Palp... I could probably get SEE in a couple weeks of Krennic farming if I bought the Piett weekly shipments (i have plenty of crystals and all the required gear ready) but I don't see the point in dumping R7 on totally neglected toons like Sid, and all the random Empire toons like Krennic, when I still would drop below the SLKR wall in arena and would have to use DR *without SEE* to get past it (the only SEE-related toon in that counter squad is Thrawn).

    SEE's optimal squad setups (it's not clear what they would be, exactly, especially if he's not meant for squad arena) doesn't use his requirements, and empire fleet really needs Gauntlet in the starting lineup (whose pilots aren't in his requirements and are useless elsewhere).

    And it would just bump me into much tougher GA matchups that could very well cost reliable Kyber ranking. Maybe for some people at some kraken levels he'd be a nice luxury GL for GA, obviously I can't say what the value for others would be. But it's a little crazy to imagine that a F2P player in an only 3 year old shard could get a brand-new meta toon--a Galactic Legend!--almost right after he comes out but that there isn't a ton of incentive to do so.
  • @CG_SBCrumb , @CG_Doja_Fett There are 5 major problems with JML (or GLuke as I call him):

    1. The AI of GLuke's team seem to prefere calling him with Inherited Teachings, which severely hampers his ult charging

    2.As Ultra publish about JML tries to use Inherited Teachings on toons that cannot assist so he wastes a turn.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z2i7lI98o&ab_channel=Vego

    3. DR can counter GLuke without much of a problem, even when DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) is undersized, as can be seen from:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBaOLdTAloQ&ab_channel=dc07
    Even without his ult, this is something that sould not be applicable- lower investment, especially undersized lower investment, of something that was not a meta for the past 3-4 metas. A counter like this from the first 9 days (and we're talking about the most suggested [by CG] squad of GLuke). Ultimate or not, this should not happen.

    4. Even under EP lead, a complete f2p, DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) can beat GLuke (and we're talking about the most suggested [by CG] squad of GLuke) as can be seen from:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVmhT0Mqsqk&ab_channel=dc07
    Again, ultimate or not, this should not happen.

    5. GLuke, is a tank, the only tank among the GL, and yet his tenacity is the almost the lowest of them all (he got 63% at relic 7, GLee got 108%, GLey got 97% and only GLylo got the lower of 48%). A tank suppose to soak up damage and be as resistance to debuff as possible (especially if that tank also relay on inflicting debuffs to enemies or using "supportive (role wise)" abilities. The relative (compare to the other GL) low tenacity and the lack of tenacity given to his allies plays a big role in all the GLuke counters- wether it's loosing turn, inability to use abilities/assist give TM or anything similar. It's also force those who have GLuke to mod him for more tenacity (which still a drop in the sea since the difference if 34%-45%), a modding that weaken GLuke in other areas (if he would have modded for those areas).

    Also (less important compare to the other 5 points but still worth noting), yes, his protection is the highest among the GLs, but except for GLey, not by a large margin at all. And compare to the other characters he's not even in the top 30. To be honest I'm referring to his protection before his lead & unique addition, but as a character that, more than any other toon, relay so much on his protection, it can be expected his protection will be higher.

    Any update on the matters?
    It is really dissapointing to such iconic character and undoubtedly the most grind costly, pummelled so easily...

  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    avihas wrote: »
    3. DR can counter GLuke without much of a problem, even when DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) is undersized, as can be seen from:
    4. Even under EP lead, a complete f2p, DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) can beat GLuke (and we're talking about the most suggested [by CG] squad of GLuke) as can be seen from:
    I'm not disagreeing with your argument, but people will probably ask how much of the DR counter is a Luke issue, as opposed to the player putting Luke in the leader slot. After all, DR really relies on being able to hit the leader (hence the resurgence of pretaunt tanks and part of why wat's shield tech is so good). Maybe explain why JKR or JKL lead aren't really options so that GL Luke isn't taunting in the leader slot?

    (I think the tank + leader topic also explains how SEE is really doing well against JML, despite SEE's weakness).
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Idk Ahnaldt said that in one video. Something like she does more often sudden whirldwind but i dont remember exactly

    There are times in a battle where you have both options available where WW might be preferred, but no, Rey w/ultimate >>>> Rey without. That's even more the case in LSTB (it allows her team a chance to heal up).

    That said, I rarely use my ultimate when facing a Rey mirror in arena. Good way to time out. Only time I use it is when its just the AI Rey or Rey/Hyoda left. Most of the time its not necessary though as Gas/JKL finish AI rey before needing it.
  • dgree wrote: »
    avihas wrote: »
    3. DR can counter GLuke without much of a problem, even when DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) is undersized, as can be seen from:
    4. Even under EP lead, a complete f2p, DR (with Wat and Nasty Basty) can beat GLuke (and we're talking about the most suggested [by CG] squad of GLuke) as can be seen from:
    I'm not disagreeing with your argument, but people will probably ask how much of the DR counter is a Luke issue, as opposed to the player putting Luke in the leader slot. After all, DR really relies on being able to hit the leader (hence the resurgence of pretaunt tanks and part of why wat's shield tech is so good). Maybe explain why JKR or JKL lead aren't really options so that GL Luke isn't taunting in the leader slot?

    (I think the tank + leader topic also explains how SEE is really doing well against JML, despite SEE's weakness).

    That's basically my point. DR is a great at focusing/take down the leader and move on from there. GLuke is all about the enemies focus on him. So CG built a character that can easily counter by an relative old (or at least veteran) ftp character. Furthermore, they can counter him while being undersize!!!!. No GL should be counter by an small undersized team (1-3 characters), let alone characters that are not GL!!. This completly negate the whole point of GL- the very peak of the spear. Well, if it can be so easily counter by a f2p it's not the very tip of the spear. GL should be a long farm/grind until the just reqard, but when the reward (=the GL character) is too easily counter by far less superior character, why people should go after those GLs??!

    It's even worst than the situation with GLylo pre his reworks, because pre reworked GLylo was countered by full/undersized GA$, which was the meta until the arrival of the GL, and GLuke is counter by even weaker character than GA$, that was no meta for more than a year and require far far les reasources than GA$ or GL.

    CG have set the precedent for the require to fix GLuke when they fix GLylo, twice, and say that a team with far less investment should not counter (let alone easy counter/undersize) the tip of the spear characters. They even done this before when they buff Malak so he could not be counter by EP.

    I'm not asking for someting that is not on due. I did not say GLuke should be omnipotent and/or solo HSTR and LS geo.
    Fixing the AI so he'll reach his ult faster and won't waste turns by calling characters that can't assist will solve 50% of the problem (you can even add that he clean the debuff on a character before calling to assist and than it wouldn't be a waste of turn[point 2 of mine).
    Give his lead something like "+20% tenacity, +15% armor and +15% resistance, double for a Jedi" will probably solve the other half of the problem- he could still be beaten, but not so easily. He and his allies won't be so vulnerable to debuffs and heavy hits. Plus this fit more to his role as a tank
  • In addition (but not instead!!) CG could add to his base protection something like 20k protection. I won't make him the character with the most protection in the game, but it will add more cushion to the reciving damage.
    I will admit that while this is reasonable from the prospective of him being the best tank, messing with the nase stats of the character should be done with much greater delicacy, so this suggested point should be examined more carefully and tested.
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