Has anyone beat SLKR with SEE?

Prev1
dgree
118 posts Member
Title. Has anyone won this matchup (SEE on offense), and with which squad composition? (I'm literally just asking, and not saying it's impossible, although I've seen every video I can find including SLKR on offense soloing an SEE Sith titan squad)
  • SEE needs a tank to soak SLKR's permastun KO hit. (probably pretaunt since SEE is so much slower than SLKR)
  • Then he needs to survive SLKR, which no one seems to be able to do successfully, indicating SEE has to fracture SLKR. So the 3rd part spot goes to Thrawn.
  • Next, Thrawn needs to be able to get around two tanks to get to SLKR--this means, likely, Malak (dispel/shock) + Traya (isolate).

So no spots for another damage dealer like in a DR or Vader counter squad. But that makes sense, right? SEE is a GL attacker, so he can dish out the damage or somehow seize the advantage. Except between his slow speed, lack of control, and low damage output pre-ultimate, he's probably kind of just sitting there like a bit of a paperweight, just waiting to die. It seems CG intended this, literally suggesting having SEE sit there with 3-4 tanks waiting for his ultimate, but that's not enough to beat FO. But maybe, with all this setup, it's possible for SEE to win. Maybe? Is that too optimistic?

Actually, there *is* one more squad that would have a decent chance of working:

GAS lead with 5s/chewy/han/c3p0/SEE. The GAS/5s guard cheese squad kinda had a spare spot anyway. I take no position on whether we should expect someone who loves Sith enough to put R7 on Darth Sidious (totally neglected throughout the CW era?!) to make this abomination their main squad.

Replies

  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    Nevermind, the Thrawn thing didn't and very likely won't work. SLKR not only gets a bonus turn from Hux so that he's ready to go at it again right when fracture ends, but SEE's damage is just way too low and his squad can't even dip into a non-tank's HP bar before the taunts go back up, so there's hardly a turning of the tables.

    GAS/5s guard cheese it is?
  • Sorry as my brain isn’t working today.. sidious brings what?
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    Damodamo wrote: »
    Sorry as my brain isn’t working today.. sidious brings what?
    required for SEE. Sorry, bad writing.
  • This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.
  • Ultra
    6696 posts Member
    MaulVI wrote: »
    This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.

    A joke that can solo GAS 501st, Padme, Sith Empire with 64 banners
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    SLKR soloing SEE should never happen.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    MaulVI wrote: »
    This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.
    I mean, there's clearly a huge difference between the way SLKR turns into a beast while powering up FOO, and the way SEE tries to do the same thing, and SLKR on offense can definitely stomp SEE to pieces. I'm just wondering if SEE can beat SLKR at all.
  • Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
    . I agree to some extent, but there is no good reason for SLKR to be able to solo SEE 1v5. That’s broken and puts all SLKR owners at a huge advantage in GAC.

    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    edited October 13
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
    I'm just asking if SEE can beat SLKR, and how (maybe the arena strategy forum would've been better). With any squad comp (ideally Sith or even just DS, of course, but that's probably optimistic).
  • MaulVI wrote: »

    Dear cg, please test your next batch of gls before releasing them.
  • MaulVI wrote: »

    <3 Rockzor lol.. thanks for that
  • MaulVI wrote: »

    That SEE is not ult and since he relies on there being two people to link soloing would be easier.
  • MaulVI
    33 posts Member
    edited October 13
    MaulVI wrote: »

    That SEE is not ult and since he relies on there being two people to link soloing would be easier.

    And he will never get ult against one character. Good luck not dying before you can take 50 turns to get the ult against one character that not only out damages you, but is also way faster.
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    edited October 14
    There are already videos of SEE hitting ult vs SLKR and it doesn't matter. SEE being able to annihilate two people at once in about the same time as it takes DN to also annihilate two people is nice, but it doesn't do anything to SLKR who still wrecks SEE.
    MaulVI wrote: »
    And he will never get ult against one character. Good luck not dying before you can take 50 turns to get the ult against one character that not only out damages you, but is also way faster.
    Also a good point. SEE is both slow and entirely dependent on linked enemies doing a bunch of attacks.
  • Yeah, the ultimate is extremely disappointing. I wish I wouldn't have wasted time farming it. You either have to play around trying not to control the opposing team and let them take turns to build the ultimate, and/or let the opposing team completely obliterate your team to get some charges via turns. It's pretty bad to intentionally turtle your way through a match to annihilate two characters. That is my team in the Video above we tried Super fast SEE, Really heavy Offense, Super Slow to build turns.. it's just not looking too good for a GL vs GL match.
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
    . I agree to some extent, but there is no good reason for SLKR to be able to solo SEE 1v5. That’s broken and puts all SLKR owners at a huge advantage in GAC.

    This is quite similar to Rey. I can tell you as a Rey owner, people drop quite a number of banners on that match even if they have no problem beating it.

    Don't understand the scenario you are imagining though. Assume you have see and your opponent slkr. Why are you exactly putting see on defense against that particular opponent? If anything they will put slkr on defense because you'll have quite the trouble if you try to beat it with see.
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
    . I agree to some extent, but there is no good reason for SLKR to be able to solo SEE 1v5. That’s broken and puts all SLKR owners at a huge advantage in GAC.

    This is quite similar to Rey. I can tell you as a Rey owner, people drop quite a number of banners on that match even if they have no problem beating it.

    Don't understand the scenario you are imagining though. Assume you have see and your opponent slkr. Why are you exactly putting see on defense against that particular opponent? If anything they will put slkr on defense because you'll have quite the trouble if you try to beat it with see.

    I have Rey and now SEE. It’s just that SLKR is so strong that it opens up many options compared to the Rey owner.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Alexandros21
    12 posts Member
    edited October 15
    It makes sense that each GL will have a counter, and that the counter should be inherently linked to a weakness in the kit. In the case of SEE the weakness is inherent in the link mechanic, the same way GAS’ weakness against SEE is inherent in his kit (max protection). I don’t see any problem with that...

    Also thinking out loud, why would the most FTP GL be held to a similar standard to other less FTP GLs?
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    Why is everyone complaining that SLKR can beat SEE? The GLs are balanced. People were afraid that the new ones would be unbalanced, but they aren't. SLKR beats SEE. SEE beats JML. JML beats SLKR. And I think Rey is kinda up in the air, I haven't heard much about how Rey fairs.
    . I agree to some extent, but there is no good reason for SLKR to be able to solo SEE 1v5. That’s broken and puts all SLKR owners at a huge advantage in GAC.

    This is quite similar to Rey. I can tell you as a Rey owner, people drop quite a number of banners on that match even if they have no problem beating it.

    Don't understand the scenario you are imagining though. Assume you have see and your opponent slkr. Why are you exactly putting see on defense against that particular opponent? If anything they will put slkr on defense because you'll have quite the trouble if you try to beat it with see.

    I have Rey and now SEE. It’s just that SLKR is so strong that it opens up many options compared to the Rey owner.

    I agree and expect some sort of straightening overall for all the gls via little tweaks. The -shouldn't- arguments don't make all that much sense though.
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    Fhoenix wrote: »
    Yeah, the ultimate is extremely disappointing. I wish I wouldn't have wasted time farming it. You either have to play around trying not to control the opposing team and let them take turns to build the ultimate, and/or let the opposing team completely obliterate your team to get some charges via turns. It's pretty bad to intentionally turtle your way through a match to annihilate two characters. That is my team in the Video above we tried Super fast SEE, Really heavy Offense, Super Slow to build turns.. it's just not looking too good for a GL vs GL match.

    Thanks for the info and experimentation. Sounds like the idea of simply loading the team up with tanks (who don't really get that much support from SEE, especially malak) and just sitting their turtling and waiting to die so that you can annihilate 2 NPCs 10 years later if you're lucky isn't just a disappointing playstyle but one that also won't work.

    It's been a few days since I posted this, and I was kinda hoping somehow some tactic would work but it just seems like SEE is wastes an important squad slot in sith/empire counter teams.


  • MaulVI wrote: »
    This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.

    SEE is complete joke because he is trashed by SLKR. SLKR is complete joke because he is trashed by JML. JML is complete joke because he is trashed by DR. The conclusion - Rey is the best GL ever... wait, what?

    Looks like both new GL are powerful but not balanced well, and we most probably will see some adjustments in near future.
  • Hortus wrote: »
    MaulVI wrote: »
    This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.

    SEE is complete joke because he is trashed by SLKR. SLKR is complete joke because he is trashed by JML. JML is complete joke because he is trashed by DR. The conclusion - Rey is the best GL ever... wait, what?

    Looks like both new GL are powerful but not balanced well, and we most probably will see some adjustments in near future.

    I don't really want to make it sound like I am advocating more kit changes. We have enough of that where things don't go exactly as we would want so we vent, and then things either get way over tuned, or broken.

    I really wanted to point out that it's just not a good idea for arena teams even with ultimate. The way to stop SEE/GML/SLKR/Rey currently is to mix and mash Frankenstein teams together. This is ok for arena, but over all you can't have those Jedi arena teams of Rey + Jedi and still place JML + Jedi. there will be some natural balancing out. KAM is also going to steal even more Jedi (maybe?). More time will be spent if you care to set up your GAC/TW board.

    There is, in my opinion however, a problem that a single Character can solo a full relic team. I'm not sure I really like that if I have to place bets on my opponent holding SLKR then I can't place SEE. So I guess positive side is I get to use him on offense, downside is I was really hoping to make up a fun team that wouldn't get one shot solo'd by a singular GL leaving them to be able to still place a relatively strong full FO team now.
  • RAYRAY
    2692 posts Member
    Fhoenix wrote: »
    Hortus wrote: »
    MaulVI wrote: »
    This is basically all you need to see to realize that SEE is a complete joke.

    SEE is complete joke because he is trashed by SLKR. SLKR is complete joke because he is trashed by JML. JML is complete joke because he is trashed by DR. The conclusion - Rey is the best GL ever... wait, what?

    Looks like both new GL are powerful but not balanced well, and we most probably will see some adjustments in near future.

    I don't really want to make it sound like I am advocating more kit changes. We have enough of that where things don't go exactly as we would want so we vent, and then things either get way over tuned, or broken.

    I really wanted to point out that it's just not a good idea for arena teams even with ultimate. The way to stop SEE/GML/SLKR/Rey currently is to mix and mash Frankenstein teams together. This is ok for arena, but over all you can't have those Jedi arena teams of Rey + Jedi and still place JML + Jedi. there will be some natural balancing out. KAM is also going to steal even more Jedi (maybe?). More time will be spent if you care to set up your GAC/TW board.

    There is, in my opinion however, a problem that a single Character can solo a full relic team. I'm not sure I really like that if I have to place bets on my opponent holding SLKR then I can't place SEE. So I guess positive side is I get to use him on offense, downside is I was really hoping to make up a fun team that wouldn't get one shot solo'd by a singular GL leaving them to be able to still place a relatively strong full FO team now.

    I think the sheer lopsidedness of the interaction between kylo and palp will be what causes their first “tweak”. There is a small chance of someone finding a team post ultimate that changes that but we will see.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 17
    Post Ultimate it won't change anything. SEE loses his tankiness and prot regain, and speed up, and the ability to put deception on targets... for a 20 turn cd double annihilate... and a basic that doesn't even get stronger post ult.

    His kit, while creative is lackluster.
    Hes not this mastermind behind the scenes debuffing and controlling the battlefield... hes an old man throwing farts at people and tickling them. Who care about stealing protection when every attacker has decent to great health pools and can life steal most of that back. or get prot up that can't be stolen.

    SEE doesn't put meaningful debuffs. He flat out screws over the best two sith tanks for no reason (if malak can't be crit he can't fear/taunt as well as not having prot to regain from second see special.)
    and sion... who's built around reviving himself to be a sticky taunt.. cause his stats for a tank are lackluster to take the revive into account.

    (and yes. I have SEE... hes not worth the trash you have to build to get him)
  • ShaggyB
    1730 posts Member
    Shiryu wrote: »

    (and yes. I have SEE... hes not worth the trash you have to build to get him)

    Thats why i went JML first. Same reason i went slkr first too.

    Characters you level werent complete garbage and had use outside unlocking the GL.

  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 17
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »

    (and yes. I have SEE... hes not worth the trash you have to build to get him)

    Thats why i went JML first. Same reason i went slkr first too.

    Characters you level werent complete garbage and had use outside unlocking the GL.

    I actually had Sid r7 before he was ever announced. mostly as a troll but I did find a use for him. Heavy potency modded under treya. He has about 220k health and everytime a dot ticks on an enemy the entire team heals.


    Other then that. yeah hes bad
    Krennic is bad
    RG is one of the worst toons in the game.

  • When I grant a link to SLKR, SEE doesn’t get 8% Ultimate Charge when SLKR moves.
    Is this normal behavior?
  • dgree
    118 posts Member
    bassa wrote: »
    When I grant a link to SLKR, SEE doesn’t get 8% Ultimate Charge when SLKR moves.
    Is this normal behavior?
    SEE should get 8% every time a linked enemy uses an ability, GL or not
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