A visualization of the Gear Crunch

Replies

  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    Sure, but advising others on these techniques doesnt always help.

    Does it ever lol.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.

    Lol
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?
  • StarSon
    7437 posts Member
    Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.

    Wrong. Read more.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.
    I don’t think he did. The only person claiming that TVF was the only person who said they were an issue was the person who brought them up.
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.
    I don’t think he did. The only person claiming that TVF was the only person who said they were an issue was the person who brought them up.

    it-s-a-fact-o.gif
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon
    7437 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.

    Wrong. Read more.

    No, I totally did all the reading. And you definitely said the word credits.
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.

    Wrong. Read more.

    No, I totally did all the reading. And you definitely said the word credits.

    "Bringing up" means saying it first.

    Read more again. In order.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon
    7437 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.

    Wrong. Read more.

    No, I totally did all the reading. And you definitely said the word credits.

    "Bringing up" means saying it first.

    Read more again. In order.

    Reading in order isn’t nearly as fun
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.

    Wrong. Read more.

    No, I totally did all the reading. And you definitely said the word credits.

    "Bringing up" means saying it first.

    Read more again. In order.

    Reading in order isn’t nearly as fun

    I guess we'll need to redefine OP then lol.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

    Based on the inventory they had, that was pretty much their best. The next person closest to them was well over 1 million GP higher.
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.

    So if their best teams are currently the nuke team, Traya, JKR, RJT, and a G12 DR team....why are they in my bracket? You’re still failing to answer why someone with such a discrepancy in power is even matched up against GL’s or anything remotely close
  • TVF
    36599 posts Member
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

    Based on the inventory they had, that was pretty much their best. The next person closest to them was well over 1 million GP higher.
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.

    So if their best teams are currently the nuke team, Traya, JKR, RJT, and a G12 DR team....why are they in my bracket? You’re still failing to answer why someone with such a discrepancy in power is even matched up against GL’s or anything remotely close

    Because of the choices they made with their top 80.

    But regardless of anything you hear, you will always blame matchmaking, and furthermore it's irrelevant to this thread, so I'm moving on.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

    Based on the inventory they had, that was pretty much their best. The next person closest to them was well over 1 million GP higher.
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.

    So if their best teams are currently the nuke team, Traya, JKR, RJT, and a G12 DR team....why are they in my bracket? You’re still failing to answer why someone with such a discrepancy in power is even matched up against GL’s or anything remotely close

    Because of the choices they made with their top 80.

    But regardless of anything you hear, you will always blame matchmaking, and furthermore it's irrelevant to this thread, so I'm moving on.

    Because that’s a flawed matchmaking system but oh well. Can’t ever put the blame on CG 🤷🏻‍♂️.

    But I do agree, back to the main topic of CG not providing enough gear to its players
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

    Based on the inventory they had, that was pretty much their best. The next person closest to them was well over 1 million GP higher.
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.

    So if their best teams are currently the nuke team, Traya, JKR, RJT, and a G12 DR team....why are they in my bracket? You’re still failing to answer why someone with such a discrepancy in power is even matched up against GL’s or anything remotely close
    Post their ally code, and yours. The reason they’re matched with you will soon become apparent.
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance
    Squad someone runs in arena =/= their best squad.

    Based on the inventory they had, that was pretty much their best. The next person closest to them was well over 1 million GP higher.
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    This post made sense once upon a time.

    Then they changed MM and now it doesn't.

    That’s not exactly true. It’s based on how much you pay, where you place in arenas, how well you do in HSTR, and how well your guild does in guild events. F2p players that are not checking all of this list probably haven’t had time to push bad toons out of the top 80 yet.

    I still have 6 toons in my top 80 that haven’t been used in GAC since 2019. The last time I put gear on any of them was the c3PO event (my 2 Ewoks on the list).
    But surely there’s none of those 6 you exclusively geared / levelled to bloat your GP for TB back when it first arrived?

    You obtained 3po with the 2 you mentioned, so there was some gain in gearing them.

    Ravens is suggesting that TB fluff (taking all toons to g7, level 50 so you can Chuck mods on them, levelling all abilities to the point of needing purple ability mats - that sort of thing) is adversely affecting his and other people’s GAC matchmaking. I don’t accept that this is accurate for anyone who has been actively playing the game since GA / GAC arrived.

    I’m not having those issues. I don’t have GL’s but I’ve developed counters and strategies with them. The first GL im actually going to have in short order is JML, and that’s because many of his reqs I had relic already from JKL and other necessities in the game. SEE is another story.

    But you did say this, right...?
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.

    This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.

    IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.

    A worthy contribution to the forums.

    Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.

    OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.

    GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.

    A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.

    Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system

    Haha I enjoy this one.

    And nothing about what I said is wrong. Some people I get matched up with have no business being in the same bracket as me or other people who have more developed rosters. When their top team is DR and older metas, no GAS, no JKL or GL’s why are they there?

    Because of their choices, same as everyone else.

    Anyway, it's really not relevant to this thread.

    Yup people totally should’ve known that their choices to fluff their rosters for TB, at CG’s suggestion, would have totally blew up in their faces for a game mode that wasn’t even thought up yet. How dare they....

    For me, there’s a huge difference between having bad toons in your top 80 and having toons that were fluffed just for TB deployment value in your roster.

    I get it, pushing low quality toons out of your top 80 is easier for some than others, but I’ve got plenty lead balloons in my top 80, even with 2 GL and JKL, hopefully JML by mid - late November.

    I said that in reference to TVF talking about a different person making the wrong choices in their rosters. He also forgets that some just moved up from both TB’s in Hoth to Geo’s.
    The overall point was that in the last few rounds of GC I consistently see someone who doesn’t belong in the brackets with myself and others who are far behind more advanced. Heck, one guy still had the old GG nuke arena team. Why in the heck was he with players with GL’s, JKL, or their counters? He didn’t get a single win

    Lol at blaming CG when someone is running GG nuke in arena.

    Why are they even in my bracket? If that’s their best squad then why the heck would they be placed there. So yes, that is CG’s fault for their system placing that player into a bracket that they have no chance

    It's not CG's job to help people making poor choices, be it roster construction or arena team.

    So if their best teams are currently the nuke team, Traya, JKR, RJT, and a G12 DR team....why are they in my bracket? You’re still failing to answer why someone with such a discrepancy in power is even matched up against GL’s or anything remotely close
    Post their ally code, and yours. The reason they’re matched with you will soon become apparent.

    971-354-768. That’s mine but I don’t know theres
  • flux_rono
    2120 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    476m8lo7et64.png

    Source from reddit and much thanks too.

    This is what we mean devs. This is a gear crunch and we need more F2P ways to get this gear.

    This doesn’t even include the gold gear, G12 gear, G12+ or finishers either. But you know what? The G12 and above gear...thats fine. That’s an acceptable choke point in the game given the level of progression we are at. We don’t need that stuff to get to G12. G12 should not be a chore to get to anymore. Now that you have moved the goalposts permanently requiring relic toons for unlocks and new premium characters, G12 should be made much easier to achieve. How do you do that? Make all the gear in this picture much more accessible via updates to daily challenges, events, gear heist events, raid reward distribution, GC rewards, etc.

    my main question to this graph is.... where is Mando, RH poe, cara, FO sith trooper, droideka, B1, and any other missing characters from those years. seems like a selective graph missin info.

    also if this graph doesnt include gear 12 finishers then its 10000000000% wrong, since kryo only started with Drevan (i believe) and this shows bossk and others having kryo that came way before him
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    I did - but not that they are a problem. Check again.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.
    I don’t think he did. The only person claiming that TVF was the only person who said they were an issue was the person who brought them up.

    Again:
    Mentioning credits and claiming that there's an issue with credits is two different things. You know that.
  • Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    I did - but not that they are a problem. Check again.
    I did not say you said they are a problem. Check again.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    TVF did. Duh.
    I don’t think he did. The only person claiming that TVF was the only person who said they were an issue was the person who brought them up.

    it-s-a-fact-o.gif

    It's also a fact that you brought up issues in relation credits - not I.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Can we stop the who said what side conversation and please stay on topic
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Options
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Now credits are an issue too?

    Does anyone here manage their resources?

    You're the only one here saying they are an issue.

    I know better than to chase you down any rabbit hole, including this one.

    Still:
    You are the only one here claiming credits are an issue.
    Who brought credits up?

    I did - but not that they are a problem. Check again.
    I did not say you said they are a problem. Check again.

    We agree then. So what's your point - if you have any?
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