You do realize that about 1/3 of the meta report for top teams is GLs under another lead right?
And who might that be??
JKL is the best character they have put out yet. I’m sure they took their time to create him. His event was even way better then any GL events by far.
I would rather they make “mini GLs” like him and require less to unlock.
I get what they are doing. Trying to make us level up all the garbage they have created because surprisingly the community knew better then to level up those useless characters that they created over the years.
No more sandbagging accounts for GAC I guess was what they are going for.
But when you can get characters like Drevan,malak and badstila pretty easily in comparison and then beat all teams with them. Then they have to think of ways to make us level up others.
GC I thought would go down that road and started off that way with relic level requirements for factions.
Pulling that has now made it way easier for us to get that valuable mod material.
So once again a lower player can climb arena with Drevan and never need a GL.
[/quote]
I think while you may be able to climb in arena without a GL (that was already the case. I climb against Rey and Kylo with vader and thrawn counters already), having at least one GL probably will make you hold better on defense.
The Darth revan example is a good one. Yes you can beat GL luke and GL rey to climb. But you'll fall further since Darth revan can be beaten by a lot of teams too. Rey, kylo, see, gas, padme all beat him fairly easily on offense.
The same holds true for the vader counter. You would think that since a vader team with wat easily counters GL Rey, you would see a lot of them in arena. But there are probably 20 relived GAS teams in the 50s, 60s, or 70s (occasionally I have to climb through them since I sometimes fall that far). You would think most of them could also field a vader counter and climb to first like I do. But it just doesn't happen all that much. Most just hand out in the 40s or 50s. Somehow, I doubt they'll all start using Darth revan to climb either.
A lot of these "weak squad" counters to SEE can be prevented by making the Sith squad a team that already prevents these counters, and throwing SEE into them. SEE kinda ruins DR synergy, but the Sith player could run DR with SEE, or SEE with DR and it would work fine. They could also run Triumvirate under Traya lead and throw in SEE and it'd be great against Geos.
People can feel free to read my post in Suggestions explaining SEE's mechanics and issues, and I'll note that my post in this subforum on SEE counters to SLKR is dead because no one found a way to even make a bad SEE counter for the standard SLKR squad.
I'd prefer no rushes to judgment or action, but it's foreseeable that there's going to be more and more of a panic as more people invest the heavy time and resources to get SEE while arena shards fill with more SLKR squads that push SEE squads lower below the meta arena rankings. (Or maybe people just won't get SEE and these 80 threads will fizzle, idk).
Did you just suggest throwing in a GL under a Traya/trio lead to beat GEOs?
I was wondering that myself.😂
His entire suggestion seems to be “is your gl useless against most squads? Simple, build squads that can defeat those squads, then throw your gl in so they can carry him.”
Like SEE is a baby in a car seat that is going along for the ride.
This basically sums it up, and in some cases (eg. against SLKR) is actually overly positive.
We often see JKR as a lead for GLs because JKR is an amazing Jedi lead. Amazing. Darth Revan, on the other hand, for example, was limited on purpose with a new "Sith Empire" faction tag, where DR won't provide SEE with most of the benefits and SEE not having the SE faction tag will ruin DR's crit damage. (And SEE won't get to ultimate).
GAS is also often a lead because the idea of a new GL not dominating the meta was so horrendous that he had to be hardcoded to murder 5s just in case 5s sacrifice would help GAS win (it probably doesn't)--so people will run GAS with 5s, and put a GL inside that squad. This is probably the one good SLKR counter squad with a spare spot for SEE in the car seat.
So once again a lower player can climb arena with Drevan and never need a GL.
A player can climb with SE without a GL, but they'll get smashed by the GLs and thrown way down overnight, so it'll be a big climb. As more people get GLs, that climb will get bigger. Unfortunately, having SEE may not help this issue that much if a person's shard gets 50-100 SLKRs.
A lot of these "weak squad" counters to SEE can be prevented by making the Sith squad a team that already prevents these counters, and throwing SEE into them. SEE kinda ruins DR synergy, but the Sith player could run DR with SEE, or SEE with DR and it would work fine. They could also run Triumvirate under Traya lead and throw in SEE and it'd be great against Geos.
People can feel free to read my post in Suggestions explaining SEE's mechanics and issues, and I'll note that my post in this subforum on SEE counters to SLKR is dead because no one found a way to even make a bad SEE counter for the standard SLKR squad.
I'd prefer no rushes to judgment or action, but it's foreseeable that there's going to be more and more of a panic as more people invest the heavy time and resources to get SEE while arena shards fill with more SLKR squads that push SEE squads lower below the meta arena rankings. (Or maybe people just won't get SEE and these 80 threads will fizzle, idk).
Did you just suggest throwing in a GL under a Traya/trio lead to beat GEOs?
I was wondering that myself.😂
His entire suggestion seems to be “is your gl useless against most squads? Simple, build squads that can defeat those squads, then throw your gl in so they can carry him.”
Like SEE is a baby in a car seat that is going along for the ride.
A lot of these "weak squad" counters to SEE can be prevented by making the Sith squad a team that already prevents these counters, and throwing SEE into them. SEE kinda ruins DR synergy, but the Sith player could run DR with SEE, or SEE with DR and it would work fine. They could also run Triumvirate under Traya lead and throw in SEE and it'd be great against Geos.
People can feel free to read my post in Suggestions explaining SEE's mechanics and issues, and I'll note that my post in this subforum on SEE counters to SLKR is dead because no one found a way to even make a bad SEE counter for the standard SLKR squad.
I'd prefer no rushes to judgment or action, but it's foreseeable that there's going to be more and more of a panic as more people invest the heavy time and resources to get SEE while arena shards fill with more SLKR squads that push SEE squads lower below the meta arena rankings. (Or maybe people just won't get SEE and these 80 threads will fizzle, idk).
Did you just suggest throwing in a GL under a Traya/trio lead to beat GEOs?
I was wondering that myself.😂
Can either of you post the video of Geos winning?
This way instead of trying to mock someone theory crafting a way out, we can all discuss the actual details of the match.
No, the guy in question said he would post the SWGOH.gg link for us, though. The thing I’m mocking is the suggestion that the GL is so weak he needs to be carried by teams that can already do the job.
You do realize that about 1/3 of the meta report for top teams is GLs under another lead right?
What does that have to do with what I said?
You seem to be implying that GLs should not be under other leads.
No, I was implying that GLs should be able to beat squads without having to rely on another squad that can already do it without the GL. So far I’m not seeing the SEE can do much other than beat JML, which can be done without needing a GL. Plus, you put SEE under a different lead and you’ll never see his ultimate which, I’ve been told, is the key to his power. (“Can’t judge that, because SEE doesn’t have his ultimate in that video”)
I didnt see him suggesting that to beat Geos, but to not be beat by geos.
Also isnt that the whole point of the game, finding the best team to make something work, I'm not sure why making a team better, even if you use a GL, is a bad idea.
Would be nice to see the other factors in that video that would probably be significant in the situation of calling him junk....
A player can climb with SE without a GL, but they'll get smashed by the GLs and thrown way down overnight, so it'll be a big climb. As more people get GLs, that climb will get bigger. Unfortunately, having SEE may not help this issue that much if a person's shard gets 50-100 SLKRs.[/quote]
I don't think See will fair that much worse than any other GL on defense. Yes, slkr beats him pretty easily. But jml beats SLKR rather easily. And see beats jml rather easily.
And SLKR also beats Rey pretty easily. So most likely those with SLKR will climb max jump unless that jump is jml (and they don't have either another GL to switch in or a Darth revan counter readily available). But I don't think SLKR owners will specifically target papa palps over Rey.
A lot of these "weak squad" counters to SEE can be prevented by making the Sith squad a team that already prevents these counters, and throwing SEE into them. SEE kinda ruins DR synergy, but the Sith player could run DR with SEE, or SEE with DR and it would work fine. They could also run Triumvirate under Traya lead and throw in SEE and it'd be great against Geos.
People can feel free to read my post in Suggestions explaining SEE's mechanics and issues, and I'll note that my post in this subforum on SEE counters to SLKR is dead because no one found a way to even make a bad SEE counter for the standard SLKR squad.
I'd prefer no rushes to judgment or action, but it's foreseeable that there's going to be more and more of a panic as more people invest the heavy time and resources to get SEE while arena shards fill with more SLKR squads that push SEE squads lower below the meta arena rankings. (Or maybe people just won't get SEE and these 80 threads will fizzle, idk).
Did you just suggest throwing in a GL under a Traya/trio lead to beat GEOs?
I was wondering that myself.😂
His entire suggestion seems to be “is your gl useless against most squads? Simple, build squads that can defeat those squads, then throw your gl in so they can carry him.”
Like SEE is a baby in a car seat that is going along for the ride.
A lot of these "weak squad" counters to SEE can be prevented by making the Sith squad a team that already prevents these counters, and throwing SEE into them. SEE kinda ruins DR synergy, but the Sith player could run DR with SEE, or SEE with DR and it would work fine. They could also run Triumvirate under Traya lead and throw in SEE and it'd be great against Geos.
People can feel free to read my post in Suggestions explaining SEE's mechanics and issues, and I'll note that my post in this subforum on SEE counters to SLKR is dead because no one found a way to even make a bad SEE counter for the standard SLKR squad.
I'd prefer no rushes to judgment or action, but it's foreseeable that there's going to be more and more of a panic as more people invest the heavy time and resources to get SEE while arena shards fill with more SLKR squads that push SEE squads lower below the meta arena rankings. (Or maybe people just won't get SEE and these 80 threads will fizzle, idk).
Did you just suggest throwing in a GL under a Traya/trio lead to beat GEOs?
I was wondering that myself.😂
Can either of you post the video of Geos winning?
This way instead of trying to mock someone theory crafting a way out, we can all discuss the actual details of the match.
No, the guy in question said he would post the SWGOH.gg link for us, though. The thing I’m mocking is the suggestion that the GL is so weak he needs to be carried by teams that can already do the job.
You do realize that about 1/3 of the meta report for top teams is GLs under another lead right?
What does that have to do with what I said?
You seem to be implying that GLs should not be under other leads.
No, I was implying that GLs should be able to beat squads without having to rely on another squad that can already do it without the GL. So far I’m not seeing the SEE can do much other than beat JML, which can be done without needing a GL. Plus, you put SEE under a different lead and you’ll never see his ultimate which, I’ve been told, is the key to his power. (“Can’t judge that, because SEE doesn’t have his ultimate in that video”)
I didnt see him suggesting that to beat Geos, but to not be beat by geos.
Also isnt that the whole point of the game, finding the best team to make something work, I'm not sure why making a team better, even if you use a GL, is a bad idea.
Would be nice to see the other factors in that video that would probably be significant in the situation of calling him junk....
I’d agree if it weren’t a GL. Huge investment for this character. GLs are sold as the most powerful game changing characters. SEE just seems to be legendary like DR or Luke instead of GL.
Relic Spy hits hard and his damage keeps accumulating. SEE heals himself too much but doesn’t hit too hard without his ultimate
Eventually spy will get to a point where he’ll hit hard enough to kill SEE. He’s always stealthing so he can’t be linked either
It’s totally believable
yeah I don't doubt this could happen. No Traya lead would weaken the Triumvirate since her lead is really what does the bugs in, and if you're not running Vader with SEE, which also isn't a guarantee vs bugs, you're screwed pretty quickly.
It's pretty funny, though.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
Relic Spy hits hard and his damage keeps accumulating. SEE heals himself too much but doesn’t hit too hard without his ultimate
Eventually spy will get to a point where he’ll hit hard enough to kill SEE. He’s always stealthing so he can’t be linked either
It’s totally believable
yeah I don't doubt this could happen. No Traya lead would weaken the Triumvirate since her lead is really what does the bugs in, and if you're not running Vader with SEE, which also isn't a guarantee vs bugs, you're screwed pretty quickly.
It's pretty funny, though.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
Are you saying that SEE will have a purpose in some new raid or otherwise end game content that is coming really soon? Because if not arena tw or GAC their needs to be something really compelling that he is the best at.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
yeah I don't doubt this could happen. No Traya lead would weaken the Triumvirate since her lead is really what does the bugs in, and if you're not running Vader with SEE, which also isn't a guarantee vs bugs, you're screwed pretty quickly.
It's pretty funny, though.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
what Sith trio+2 is losing to geos? are they g8 triumvirate vs r7 Geos? I don't even know why you're responding to me with your strange analogy. Are geos the window? Is SEE the hammer? He must be an inflatable one then.
You know who bugs can't kill? Cuz they can counter almost everything in the game so I can tell you. Bugs can't kill GLs*. They can't kill Rey, ultimate or not. G12+ or not. They can't kill SLK. Ultimate or not. G12+ or not. Haven't heard a peep about them killing Luke yet. But apparently they can kill GLEE, which is absolutely hilarious.
BTW, Luke is a hard counter to SLK. So your theory is wrong since it implies that the newest GLs can't beat the old GLs. Luke can. GLEE can kill Rey, I've heard. So if your imaginary next super(?) GLs can only kill Rey and SLK that's a pretty big problem since these GLs can kill both of them already. Rey and Kylo obviously can kill each other. Maybe next time check who you're replying to bc your post seems to take exception to me finding humor in bugs killing a GL which is silly.
A player can climb with SE without a GL, but they'll get smashed by the GLs and thrown way down overnight, so it'll be a big climb. As more people get GLs, that climb will get bigger. Unfortunately, having SEE may not help this issue that much if a person's shard gets 50-100 SLKRs.
I don't think See will fair that much worse than any other GL on defense. Yes, slkr beats him pretty easily. But jml beats SLKR rather easily. And see beats jml rather easily.
And SLKR also beats Rey pretty easily. So most likely those with SLKR will climb max jump unless that jump is jml (and they don't have either another GL to switch in or a Darth revan counter readily available). But I don't think SLKR owners will specifically target papa palps over Rey.[/quote]
SEE is an easy fight for SLKR. There will be fewer JML squads and they'll be towards the top since, as you say, SLKR squads will avoid them. This is the way metas work, and it's why GAS squads are higher generally than DR squads even though DR can beat GLs better than a normal GAS squad--GAS is a newer meta than DR. And it's why DR are generally going to be under all these squads rather than at the top, even though DR counters JML and is capable of beating both Rey and SLKR.
In other words, JML may push SLKR squads down, but there will likely be walls of SLKR between the SEE squads and the JML squads. That's just my prediction and depends on how SLKR-heavy someone's shard is (mine is already SLKR-heavy and won't have as many Reys and JMLs as the ancient shards) but point is, the "rock-paper-scissors" meme is easily overstated and the arena ranks will generally settle in a manner that will push a weak squad to the bottom--DR below GAS, and SEE on top of GAS but below the other GLs.
Relic Spy hits hard and his damage keeps accumulating. SEE heals himself too much but doesn’t hit too hard without his ultimate
Eventually spy will get to a point where he’ll hit hard enough to kill SEE. He’s always stealthing so he can’t be linked either
It’s totally believable
yeah I don't doubt this could happen. No Traya lead would weaken the Triumvirate since her lead is really what does the bugs in, and if you're not running Vader with SEE, which also isn't a guarantee vs bugs, you're screwed pretty quickly.
It's pretty funny, though.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
If SEE is not meant to be used on defense or in arena, then what IS his purpose? If somebody relics 15 toons to get him, he better be useful on defense and arena. Not invincible but competitive as compared to other GLs
See almost feels like he should be the one taunting he’s so beefy and can heal pretty well.
I’ve been playing him in arena. Don’t have his ultimate yet and missing his first zeta in his basic. Not worried about charging yet.
My take away is I agree he needs an few tweaks to make him feel more on par with the others
But, I can say I do have better success with him then I do with kylo or rey when I used them without ultimate.
I’m beating rey with ultimate quite consistently. It’s always down to 1v1 and the old fart pulls it off. I am looking very foreword to his ultimate and last zeta to see how many characters I can have left alive after a battle.
This game makes these events revolving around banners.
Having leaders that keep the team alive is more and more a must.
Relic Spy hits hard and his damage keeps accumulating. SEE heals himself too much but doesn’t hit too hard without his ultimate
Eventually spy will get to a point where he’ll hit hard enough to kill SEE. He’s always stealthing so he can’t be linked either
It’s totally believable
yeah I don't doubt this could happen. No Traya lead would weaken the Triumvirate since her lead is really what does the bugs in, and if you're not running Vader with SEE, which also isn't a guarantee vs bugs, you're screwed pretty quickly.
It's pretty funny, though.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
If SEE is not meant to be used on defense or in arena, then what IS his purpose? If somebody relics 15 toons to get him, he better be useful on defense and arena. Not invincible but competitive as compared to other GLs
You do realize that there is an offensive side to each game mode, even arena. he can be competitive and on par with the other GLs, but just be worse at defense than them. (not saying he is there right now, not defending anything) if he is crushing GLs on offense, and able to snack on anything in TW/GAC, that makes him extremely useful. we need more options, this could be one of them. remember you are limited on the defensive counters you can make with vader, WAT, and others like Thrawn.
SEE is an easy fight for SLKR. There will be fewer JML squads and they'll be towards the top since, as you say, SLKR squads will avoid them. This is the way metas work, and it's why GAS squads are higher generally than DR squads even though DR can beat GLs better than a normal GAS squad--GAS is a newer meta than DR. And it's why DR are generally going to be under all these squads rather than at the top, even though DR counters JML and is capable of beating both Rey and SLKR.
In other words, JML may push SLKR squads down, but there will likely be walls of SLKR between the SEE squads and the JML squads. That's just my prediction and depends on how SLKR-heavy someone's shard is (mine is already SLKR-heavy and won't have as many Reys and JMLs as the ancient shards) but point is, the "rock-paper-scissors" meme is easily overstated and the arena ranks will generally settle in a manner that will push a weak squad to the bottom--DR below GAS, and SEE on top of GAS but below the other GLs.
And JML is an easy win for papa palps. So it could also be papa palps at the top with a wall of jml keeping kylo from the top.
Now I don't think that will happen. Too many players at the top have other counters that those walls aren't too hard to get around. There will still be plenty of players still running Rey for example since she will still hold pretty well as far as I can tell. Since most of the GLs can beat two of the other 3 and I will assume mirror matches, it'll probably still be pretty evenly distributed up until the point where the GLs stop.
Obviously it'll vary from shard to shard. My shard still has a lot of Reys, about half as many kylos, two or 3 jmls, and 1 person that has all 4 and switches it up from time to time.
From the meta report, a lot more people went for jml than papa so I do expect some of the Rey teams to switch to jml as and also some of the kylo teams to switch as well since in a sea of jml teams kylo on defense won't do well. But in a sea of jml teams a papa palps team may do ok. It probably depends on how annoying th ef mirror match is. If it's annoying, ymthey may switch to Rey or Kylo and target papa for an easier win. If the mirror match is easy on offense, it is likely not worth the effort.
SLKR is fine how he is, he isnt too strong at all, specially compared to Rey, they are around the same level for sure.
SEE tho is massively weaker than both Rey and SLKR, even JML is much better than Palps who very much so need big tune up to his kit.
SLKR is fine.
SEE i just way to weak.
SLKR is fine how he is, he isnt too strong at all, specially compared to Rey, they are around the same level for sure.
SEE tho is massively weaker than both Rey and SLKR, even JML is much better than Palps who very much so need big tune up to his kit.
SLKR is fine.
SEE i just way to weak.
Agreed on SEE needing re-work but Kylo is definitely far better than Rey
Replies
Having a JKL-like character for SEE (Snoke) would be nice. Perhaps with Link synergy or a summonable Praetorian Guard tank.
And who might that be??
JKL is the best character they have put out yet. I’m sure they took their time to create him. His event was even way better then any GL events by far.
I would rather they make “mini GLs” like him and require less to unlock.
I get what they are doing. Trying to make us level up all the garbage they have created because surprisingly the community knew better then to level up those useless characters that they created over the years.
No more sandbagging accounts for GAC I guess was what they are going for.
But when you can get characters like Drevan,malak and badstila pretty easily in comparison and then beat all teams with them. Then they have to think of ways to make us level up others.
GC I thought would go down that road and started off that way with relic level requirements for factions.
Pulling that has now made it way easier for us to get that valuable mod material.
So once again a lower player can climb arena with Drevan and never need a GL.
[/quote]
I think while you may be able to climb in arena without a GL (that was already the case. I climb against Rey and Kylo with vader and thrawn counters already), having at least one GL probably will make you hold better on defense.
The Darth revan example is a good one. Yes you can beat GL luke and GL rey to climb. But you'll fall further since Darth revan can be beaten by a lot of teams too. Rey, kylo, see, gas, padme all beat him fairly easily on offense.
The same holds true for the vader counter. You would think that since a vader team with wat easily counters GL Rey, you would see a lot of them in arena. But there are probably 20 relived GAS teams in the 50s, 60s, or 70s (occasionally I have to climb through them since I sometimes fall that far). You would think most of them could also field a vader counter and climb to first like I do. But it just doesn't happen all that much. Most just hand out in the 40s or 50s. Somehow, I doubt they'll all start using Darth revan to climb either.
This basically sums it up, and in some cases (eg. against SLKR) is actually overly positive.
We often see JKR as a lead for GLs because JKR is an amazing Jedi lead. Amazing. Darth Revan, on the other hand, for example, was limited on purpose with a new "Sith Empire" faction tag, where DR won't provide SEE with most of the benefits and SEE not having the SE faction tag will ruin DR's crit damage. (And SEE won't get to ultimate).
GAS is also often a lead because the idea of a new GL not dominating the meta was so horrendous that he had to be hardcoded to murder 5s just in case 5s sacrifice would help GAS win (it probably doesn't)--so people will run GAS with 5s, and put a GL inside that squad. This is probably the one good SLKR counter squad with a spare spot for SEE in the car seat.
A player can climb with SE without a GL, but they'll get smashed by the GLs and thrown way down overnight, so it'll be a big climb. As more people get GLs, that climb will get bigger. Unfortunately, having SEE may not help this issue that much if a person's shard gets 50-100 SLKRs.
I didnt see him suggesting that to beat Geos, but to not be beat by geos.
Also isnt that the whole point of the game, finding the best team to make something work, I'm not sure why making a team better, even if you use a GL, is a bad idea.
Would be nice to see the other factors in that video that would probably be significant in the situation of calling him junk....
A player can climb with SE without a GL, but they'll get smashed by the GLs and thrown way down overnight, so it'll be a big climb. As more people get GLs, that climb will get bigger. Unfortunately, having SEE may not help this issue that much if a person's shard gets 50-100 SLKRs.[/quote]
I don't think See will fair that much worse than any other GL on defense. Yes, slkr beats him pretty easily. But jml beats SLKR rather easily. And see beats jml rather easily.
And SLKR also beats Rey pretty easily. So most likely those with SLKR will climb max jump unless that jump is jml (and they don't have either another GL to switch in or a Darth revan counter readily available). But I don't think SLKR owners will specifically target papa palps over Rey.
I’d agree if it weren’t a GL. Huge investment for this character. GLs are sold as the most powerful game changing characters. SEE just seems to be legendary like DR or Luke instead of GL.
Creative way of pointing out how using sith trio+2 vs geos loses in 80% of the leaderships.
Using a hammer to clean a window also doesn't work, but it doesn't mean the hammer is broken.
The morale of the story is using something incorrectly results in failure but that doesn't mean what your using is broken.
a lot of people asking for see to beat kylo or mad kylo solos see but why do people think this is broken? Don't use see on D if opponent has kylo, don't use see in arena, that's not see purpose.
See and JML might just be hard counters to the next GL which the next GL might hard counter Rey and KYLO.
SEE doesn't have his ultimate yet though
GLs without ultimate and with ultimates are different ballparks
Are you saying that SEE will have a purpose in some new raid or otherwise end game content that is coming really soon? Because if not arena tw or GAC their needs to be something really compelling that he is the best at.
what Sith trio+2 is losing to geos? are they g8 triumvirate vs r7 Geos? I don't even know why you're responding to me with your strange analogy. Are geos the window? Is SEE the hammer? He must be an inflatable one then.
You know who bugs can't kill? Cuz they can counter almost everything in the game so I can tell you. Bugs can't kill GLs*. They can't kill Rey, ultimate or not. G12+ or not. They can't kill SLK. Ultimate or not. G12+ or not. Haven't heard a peep about them killing Luke yet. But apparently they can kill GLEE, which is absolutely hilarious.
BTW, Luke is a hard counter to SLK. So your theory is wrong since it implies that the newest GLs can't beat the old GLs. Luke can. GLEE can kill Rey, I've heard. So if your imaginary next super(?) GLs can only kill Rey and SLK that's a pretty big problem since these GLs can kill both of them already. Rey and Kylo obviously can kill each other. Maybe next time check who you're replying to bc your post seems to take exception to me finding humor in bugs killing a GL which is silly.
I don't think See will fair that much worse than any other GL on defense. Yes, slkr beats him pretty easily. But jml beats SLKR rather easily. And see beats jml rather easily.
And SLKR also beats Rey pretty easily. So most likely those with SLKR will climb max jump unless that jump is jml (and they don't have either another GL to switch in or a Darth revan counter readily available). But I don't think SLKR owners will specifically target papa palps over Rey.[/quote]
SEE is an easy fight for SLKR. There will be fewer JML squads and they'll be towards the top since, as you say, SLKR squads will avoid them. This is the way metas work, and it's why GAS squads are higher generally than DR squads even though DR can beat GLs better than a normal GAS squad--GAS is a newer meta than DR. And it's why DR are generally going to be under all these squads rather than at the top, even though DR counters JML and is capable of beating both Rey and SLKR.
In other words, JML may push SLKR squads down, but there will likely be walls of SLKR between the SEE squads and the JML squads. That's just my prediction and depends on how SLKR-heavy someone's shard is (mine is already SLKR-heavy and won't have as many Reys and JMLs as the ancient shards) but point is, the "rock-paper-scissors" meme is easily overstated and the arena ranks will generally settle in a manner that will push a weak squad to the bottom--DR below GAS, and SEE on top of GAS but below the other GLs.
Maybe the real Sith Eternal Emperor was all the neglected Sith people took to R7 along the way
If SEE is not meant to be used on defense or in arena, then what IS his purpose? If somebody relics 15 toons to get him, he better be useful on defense and arena. Not invincible but competitive as compared to other GLs
I’ve been playing him in arena. Don’t have his ultimate yet and missing his first zeta in his basic. Not worried about charging yet.
My take away is I agree he needs an few tweaks to make him feel more on par with the others
But, I can say I do have better success with him then I do with kylo or rey when I used them without ultimate.
I’m beating rey with ultimate quite consistently. It’s always down to 1v1 and the old fart pulls it off. I am looking very foreword to his ultimate and last zeta to see how many characters I can have left alive after a battle.
This game makes these events revolving around banners.
Having leaders that keep the team alive is more and more a must.
You do realize that there is an offensive side to each game mode, even arena. he can be competitive and on par with the other GLs, but just be worse at defense than them. (not saying he is there right now, not defending anything) if he is crushing GLs on offense, and able to snack on anything in TW/GAC, that makes him extremely useful. we need more options, this could be one of them. remember you are limited on the defensive counters you can make with vader, WAT, and others like Thrawn.
And JML is an easy win for papa palps. So it could also be papa palps at the top with a wall of jml keeping kylo from the top.
Now I don't think that will happen. Too many players at the top have other counters that those walls aren't too hard to get around. There will still be plenty of players still running Rey for example since she will still hold pretty well as far as I can tell. Since most of the GLs can beat two of the other 3 and I will assume mirror matches, it'll probably still be pretty evenly distributed up until the point where the GLs stop.
Obviously it'll vary from shard to shard. My shard still has a lot of Reys, about half as many kylos, two or 3 jmls, and 1 person that has all 4 and switches it up from time to time.
From the meta report, a lot more people went for jml than papa so I do expect some of the Rey teams to switch to jml as and also some of the kylo teams to switch as well since in a sea of jml teams kylo on defense won't do well. But in a sea of jml teams a papa palps team may do ok. It probably depends on how annoying th ef mirror match is. If it's annoying, ymthey may switch to Rey or Kylo and target papa for an easier win. If the mirror match is easy on offense, it is likely not worth the effort.
SEE tho is massively weaker than both Rey and SLKR, even JML is much better than Palps who very much so need big tune up to his kit.
SLKR is fine.
SEE i just way to weak.
Agreed on SEE needing re-work but Kylo is definitely far better than Rey