Sith Eternal Emperor Soloed By SLKR?

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Is something going to be done about this? And what does everyone think would be an appropriate change to SEE’s kit that could solve this problem and balance out the GL’s?

Replies

  • Add Thrawn to the team.
  • Make him instantly get ult when only 1 enemy remains 🤷‍♂️
  • scuba
    12477 posts Member
    Don't put SEE on defense
  • scuba wrote: »
    Don't put SEE on defense

    It doesn’t matter, he loses to Kylo on offense too
  • Gifafi
    4995 posts Member
    finish his abilities and find the right team?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 17
    I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing

    You haven't heard good things cause there is NO GOOD THINGS about him.

    (yes i own SEE)

    I have tried every type of mod set, speed seems best.
    He throws weak farts at people
    His mastery stacking doesn't really do anything
    His Protection stealing is below decent at best and very meh any other time.
    His deceive is a worse daze... worse cause the daze tm prevention only works against jedi and rebels.
    He has no other meaningful debuffs until ult, and while a locked shock is nice, the damage on his new basic is just as bad as his thrown farts.
    He loses basically all survival options when he ults, along with being able to deceive targets and get his speed up.
    His kit contradicts ALL sith design. Malak cant be crit, thus cant fear and taunt, cause linked targets cant crit malak. sion cant revive (his mechanic to justify his weaker tanking stats). ALL sith have some sort of health recovery or altering effects... and yet SEE recovers all their protection? Retribution is... ok? sorta? Why do sith have retribution when SEE was all about that deception?

    He's bad. plain and simple. and i dare ANY dev to come in here and tell me otherwise. i have spent way to much of MY TIME, and CRYSTALS testing him to come to any other conclusion.
  • thedrjojo
    690 posts Member
    edited October 18
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing

    You haven't heard good things cause there is NO GOOD THINGS about him.

    (yes i own SEE)

    I have tried every type of mod set, speed seems best.
    He throws weak farts at people
    His mastery stacking doesn't really do anything
    His Protection stealing is below decent at best and very meh any other time.
    His deceive is a worse daze... worse cause the daze tm prevention only works against jedi and rebels.
    He has no other meaningful debuffs until ult, and while a locked shock is nice, the damage on his new basic is just as bad as his thrown farts.
    He loses basically all survival options when he ults, along with being able to deceive targets and get his speed up.
    His kit contradicts ALL sith design. Malak cant be crit, thus cant fear and taunt, cause linked targets cant crit malak. sion cant revive (his mechanic to justify his weaker tanking stats). ALL sith have some sort of health recovery or altering effects... and yet SEE recovers all their protection? Retribution is... ok? sorta? Why do sith have retribution when SEE was all about that deception?

    He's bad. plain and simple. and i dare ANY dev to come in here and tell me otherwise. i have spent way to much of MY TIME, and CRYSTALS testing him to come to any other conclusion.

    4wio1uxpscyy.jpg
    jf96ai70846z.jpg

    This crap seep team beats that full jedi squad
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Rename0200102220
    27 posts Member
    edited October 18
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing

    You haven't heard good things cause there is NO GOOD THINGS about him.

    (yes i own SEE)

    I have tried every type of mod set, speed seems best.
    He throws weak farts at people
    His mastery stacking doesn't really do anything
    His Protection stealing is below decent at best and very meh any other time.
    His deceive is a worse daze... worse cause the daze tm prevention only works against jedi and rebels.
    He has no other meaningful debuffs until ult, and while a locked shock is nice, the damage on his new basic is just as bad as his thrown farts.
    He loses basically all survival options when he ults, along with being able to deceive targets and get his speed up.
    His kit contradicts ALL sith design. Malak cant be crit, thus cant fear and taunt, cause linked targets cant crit malak. sion cant revive (his mechanic to justify his weaker tanking stats). ALL sith have some sort of health recovery or altering effects... and yet SEE recovers all their protection? Retribution is... ok? sorta? Why do sith have retribution when SEE was all about that deception?

    He's bad. plain and simple. and i dare ANY dev to come in here and tell me otherwise. i have spent way to much of MY TIME, and CRYSTALS testing him to come to any other conclusion.

    4wio1uxpscyy.jpg
    jf96ai70846z.jpg

    This crap seep team beats that full jedi squad

    Ok... cool? So what if he is good against JML? This argument is the equivalent of if when GAS was destroying SLKR you would have said it was ok because he destroyed other teams. That doesn’t change the fact that his other interactions are still broken and poorly designed.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 18
    Poopfist wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing

    You haven't heard good things cause there is NO GOOD THINGS about him.

    (yes i own SEE)

    I have tried every type of mod set, speed seems best.
    He throws weak farts at people
    His mastery stacking doesn't really do anything
    His Protection stealing is below decent at best and very meh any other time.
    His deceive is a worse daze... worse cause the daze tm prevention only works against jedi and rebels.
    He has no other meaningful debuffs until ult, and while a locked shock is nice, the damage on his new basic is just as bad as his thrown farts.
    He loses basically all survival options when he ults, along with being able to deceive targets and get his speed up.
    His kit contradicts ALL sith design. Malak cant be crit, thus cant fear and taunt, cause linked targets cant crit malak. sion cant revive (his mechanic to justify his weaker tanking stats). ALL sith have some sort of health recovery or altering effects... and yet SEE recovers all their protection? Retribution is... ok? sorta? Why do sith have retribution when SEE was all about that deception?

    He's bad. plain and simple. and i dare ANY dev to come in here and tell me otherwise. i have spent way to much of MY TIME, and CRYSTALS testing him to come to any other conclusion.

    4wio1uxpscyy.jpg
    jf96ai70846z.jpg

    This crap seep team beats that full jedi squad

    Ok... cool? So what if he is good against JML? This argument is the equivalent of if when GAS was destroying SLKR you would have said it was ok because he destroyed other teams. That doesn’t change the fact that his other interactions are still broken and poorly designed.


    Finally someone else gets it. Who cares if SEE can beat JML. He loses HARD to the other two gls and most DS teams walk all over him. Who cares if he can solo gas. GAS is never on defense anymore so thats a mute point.

    He's lackluster at best and plain garbage at worst.

    Simple way to put it... He's the king of the trash required to get him.

    For all the bloat on your roster to get crap characters, that per CG's philosophy will NEVER get a rework or tweaked, he isnt worth it.

    Why go for SEE when you can go for JML and get a rebel team that **** all over GAS anyway? while getting JKL that basically beats almost any non GL team with ease.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    Poopfist wrote: »
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    I haven’t heard any good things about SEE. This toon seems very disappointing

    You haven't heard good things cause there is NO GOOD THINGS about him.

    (yes i own SEE)

    I have tried every type of mod set, speed seems best.
    He throws weak farts at people
    His mastery stacking doesn't really do anything
    His Protection stealing is below decent at best and very meh any other time.
    His deceive is a worse daze... worse cause the daze tm prevention only works against jedi and rebels.
    He has no other meaningful debuffs until ult, and while a locked shock is nice, the damage on his new basic is just as bad as his thrown farts.
    He loses basically all survival options when he ults, along with being able to deceive targets and get his speed up.
    His kit contradicts ALL sith design. Malak cant be crit, thus cant fear and taunt, cause linked targets cant crit malak. sion cant revive (his mechanic to justify his weaker tanking stats). ALL sith have some sort of health recovery or altering effects... and yet SEE recovers all their protection? Retribution is... ok? sorta? Why do sith have retribution when SEE was all about that deception?

    He's bad. plain and simple. and i dare ANY dev to come in here and tell me otherwise. i have spent way to much of MY TIME, and CRYSTALS testing him to come to any other conclusion.

    4wio1uxpscyy.jpg
    jf96ai70846z.jpg

    This crap seep team **** all over that full jedi squad

    Ok... cool? So what if he is good against JML? This argument is the equivalent of if when GAS was destroying SLKR you would have said it was ok because he destroyed other teams. That doesn’t change the fact that his other interactions are still broken and poorly designed.


    GAS is never on defense anymore so thats a mute point.

    You guys are missing out then. GAS ranks #1 on swgoh.gg in fewest banners per win on defense. But this will probably fall on deaf ears, making it a mute point too... 😉
  • So what high tier TW's do you see GAS on defense in? None? cool.
  • You guys are missing out then. GAS ranks #1 on swgoh.gg in fewest banners per win on defense. But this will probably fall on deaf ears, making it a mute point too... 😉

    Nice vid on that vader counter to single tank SLKR with SEE just standing there. Such a high banner win!

  • Yeah, if you put GAS on defense you’re doing something wrong, but once again, this is not the point. I don’t care about GAS. I care about Kylo being able to solo one of the new GL’s
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    edited October 18
    scuba wrote: »
    Don't attack Kylo with him. God forbid someone would actually have to use multiple teams to climb in arena.

    All the criticisms of SEE kit in practice are correct. I anticipated the worst reaction to these criticisms, and this is it: the idea that while an old GL should be able to crush every game mode to reward the people who got him first some more, anyone who saved for a Sith GL doesn't get anything and should have to get multiple GLs just to survive in arena.

    To quote Dark Lord Anakin: "This is outrageous! It's unfair!"
  • dgree wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Don't attack Kylo with him. God forbid someone would actually have to use multiple teams to climb in arena.

    All the criticisms of SEE kit in practice are correct. I anticipated the worst reaction to these criticisms, and this is it: the idea that while an old GL should be able to crush every game mode to reward the people who got him first some more, anyone who saved for a Sith GL doesn't get anything and should have to get multiple GLs just to survive in arena.

    To quote Dark Lord Anakin: "This is outrageous! It's unfair!"

    This. 100% this. For the amount of resources needed for SEE, to have him be so lackluster is just heartbreaking. A few simple fixes would go along way. Make his unique Sow Discord hit any enemy, not just LS units. Give deceived targets -50% defense as well as the weaker daze like effect. Have his 2% prot regain from Sow Discord also restore health and hit his SITH allies.
    His So be it, Jedi should also restore health as well since every single other sith kit relies on health like mechanics.

    (for the record i own SLKR as well and can beat JML with him just by giving him wat's tank tech.)
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    The irony is that there are multiple Sith teams that *can* counter SLKR fairly reliably, but trying to fit SEE in them will make them worse and sabotage the battle. He's dead weight in a squad that needs 5 useful toons due to SLKR's perma-advantage mechanics, superior stat-stacking, and ability to immediately permastun and disable an enemy at the start of battle.
  • Shiryu
    116 posts Member
    edited October 18
    And he gets no controlling abilities himself, has no damage, can only make 2 targets not crit, and doesn't really help his allies all to much unlike a team wide range of multiple buffs that the other GL's hand out like candy

    when it comes to GLs... SLKR and JML are the best, Rey super close behind and SEE left for dead last and he never even got off the starting line.
  • dgree wrote: »
    The irony is that there are multiple Sith teams that *can* counter SLKR fairly reliably, but trying to fit SEE in them will make them worse and sabotage the battle. He's dead weight in a squad that needs 5 useful toons due to SLKR's perma-advantage mechanics, superior stat-stacking, and ability to immediately permastun and disable an enemy at the start of battle.

    This. And this is one of my complaints about Bulldog’s counter. By putting SEE in the leader slot you’re honestly just making a less effective variation of a better Sith team like Darth Revan.
  • That's my problem with youtubers. It's all about their views and click baits. Yes I understand they need to make money and that requires views. But still. Maybe a discussion on what we can do to make things better instead of "SEE BEATS SLKR! oh wait it was all vader all along" would be more productive.

    Also blind devotion that things are "ok" when multiple SEE owners have come out and said the complete opposite isn't helpful either.

    Granted, I have also watched Ahnaldt's SEE ultimate testing vid and by the end he visually looked disappointed. It was subtle but it was definitely there.
  • That sucks. Well at least people who go for SEE get 60% of an imperial trooper squad...
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    edited October 18
    Poopfist wrote: »
    This. And this is one of my complaints about Bulldog’s counter. By putting SEE in the leader slot you’re honestly just making a less effective variation of a better Sith team like Darth Revan.
    You're exactly right about SEE just sabotaging existing counter squads, but to be fair, beyond the clickbaity title, Bulldog does mention this.

    The video Bulldog is using from a prominent Sith disc member also is the product of serious work by people with heavy Empire/Sith rosters who know how to use them. And this is the best anyone's come up with.

    Post edited by Kyno on
  • See teams beat Rey teams, or will when they get see ultimate (I've beaten uRey with see, but it's far from a guarantee). See decimates jml teams. See loses to Slkr teams hard. But slkr gets decimated by jmls. You are complaining about a rock paper scissors and want your new shiny to be a you win button,and that's not how this works. The game is designed now to require multiple GL if not all of them if you want an unstoppable meta. There is no team that is safe and unbeatable. It's what everyone wanted until they didn't want it.

    All the gl have off meta counters. They have from the beginning. I've gotten 60 banner battles both against my Rey and against enemy Rey's with vader teams.

    Would I like some changes to See's kit so that the 1v5 mechanism gets fixed, yes. Would I love to find a way for my see to beat slkr reliably, yes.

    But that above team, I was down to 1v4 seep vs jml, jkl, gas, and Hoda. Seep proceeded to fart on every one of them and make them disappear. I even killed hoda before jml for good measure (and cause his heal was getting annoying). And I'm missing 3 zetas (including the 50% protection recovery on 1st special)
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    There is no team that is safe and unbeatable.
    Sorry, but this is a strawman. Nobody's saying they "want their new shiny to be a they win button". No one is complaining that SLKR on offense can beat SEE, at all. They just want a new GL to be capable (even if it requires putting together the right squad of high-relic Sith outside of the GL's requirements), of beating an older meta GL. But instead, the only way of beating a normal SLKR squad with Sith is by benching SEE.

    But congratulations on your arena battle win. Let me ask: how are you climbing through SLKR walls?
  • The main thing that is making me upset is that 90% of my arena shard is SLKR. My daily climb won't change much after I unlock SEE in a couple weeks. At least I've gotten really good at the DR counter now...
  • scuba wrote: »
    Poopfist wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Don't put SEE on defense

    It doesn’t matter, he loses to Kylo on offense too

    Don't attack Kylo with him. God forbid someone would actually have to use multiple teams to climb in arena.

    God forbid people would wait and see how good the GL's are before making such a steep investment of resources.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    So what high tier TW's do you see GAS on defense in? None? cool.

    I see plenty of GASs in D in TW between top 10 guilds. I would consider those TWs are top end. Just ask your friends in those top guilds.
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