So GL’s can be underdogged now?

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If this is allowed by CG then this is awful. They did all they could to prevent this kind of underdogging with SLKR. JML should get the same kind of treatment. If CG allows this then the investment in JML is incredibly undercut

Replies

  • Yeah this is why it's not just an ult thing. Direct focus, shock and fear all get around everything in his kit as a leader.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Antwon120 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »


    If this is allowed by CG then this is awful. They did all they could to prevent this kind of underdogging with SLKR. JML should get the same kind of treatment. If CG allows this then the investment in JML is incredibly undercut

    I personally think this is fine. Maybe JML isn't going to be best for defense, but rather offense. Not every GL has to be an invincible wall on defense.

    Wait. For consistency's sake how is GML being cheesed by DR + 2 okay, but somehow, SLKR being cheesed by GAS/Fives + Echo (who were the previous meta - not one from two years ago) needed to be "fixed"?

    DR, bast, wat doesn't exploit how the AI is programmed to act.

    SLKR refused to use 80% of his kit because he would NEVER use his aoe to actually siphon stats.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Antwon120 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »


    If this is allowed by CG then this is awful. They did all they could to prevent this kind of underdogging with SLKR. JML should get the same kind of treatment. If CG allows this then the investment in JML is incredibly undercut

    I personally think this is fine. Maybe JML isn't going to be best for defense, but rather offense. Not every GL has to be an invincible wall on defense.

    Wait. For consistency's sake how is GML being cheesed by DR + 2 okay, but somehow, SLKR being cheesed by GAS/Fives + Echo (who were the previous meta - not one from two years ago) needed to be "fixed"?

    DR, bast, wat doesn't exploit how the AI is programmed to act.

    SLKR refused to use 80% of his kit because he would NEVER use his aoe to actually siphon stats.

    Oh....so SLKR would never be able to get to his ultimate....oh wait....

    When SLKR ai was broken he ALSO wouldn't use his ult. He didn't use any of his aoes. he would only use his basic and stab

  • Cause faulty AI coding is not the same as working as intended mechanics.

    DR locks down enemy teams with fear. While with the GAS cheese SLKR refused to use half of his kit because of broken ai. There is a difference there


    Does it make it right. That's up to the the non-communicating devs to answer.
  • Gifafi
    4995 posts Member
    “Now”
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    Cause faulty AI coding is not the same as working as intended mechanics.

    DR locks down enemy teams with fear. While with the GAS cheese SLKR refused to use half of his kit because of broken ai. There is a difference there


    Does it make it right. That's up to the the non-communicating devs to answer.

    Also, this last week, Doja_Fett has done a tremendous job with communication in his first week. Is it enough to make up for the last several months? Not even a little, but it’s a positive change and hopefully it gets better. But that’s besides the point.

    Bottom line, GL’s should not be getting underdogged like this by two characters (wat being a support for his tech).
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    Shiryu wrote: »
    Cause faulty AI coding is not the same as working as intended mechanics.

    DR locks down enemy teams with fear. While with the GAS cheese SLKR refused to use half of his kit because of broken ai. There is a difference there


    Does it make it right. That's up to the the non-communicating devs to answer.

    This nails it. If someone puts a taunting tank in the leader slot and loads up the squad with a bunch of turtle-speed attackers, that is specifically the sort of squad that is vulnerable to DR. JML and JKL already have fear immunity and GAS the Malak-killer cleanses himself. Maybe that still shouldn't work if it's too undesirable to remove JML from the leader slot, but this shouldn't be a shock (pun intended, not sorry)
  • These new GLs are funky.One can be 3 manned by Dr lead and the other can be soloed with kylo.

    Pick your poison
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    edited October 18
    SLKR could already be "underdogged" by GAS/5s/chewy/han. Just sayin, it's not new, even if it isn't preferable. The main new thing, tbh, is that a brand-new GL on offense has basically no hope of beating an older meta squad without shoving him in that underman GAS counter squad.
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    So a character seemed to be one of the 4 “pinnacle of power” master toons should be getting 3 manned by DR? Yeah I don’t think so.
    I'm not saying it should be happening, just why it's happening. If the squad is setup differently--faster toons that aren't half of DR's ferocity speed, better debuff management, JML taunting outside of the leader slot--I think DR probably gets smashed.
  • dgree wrote: »
    SLKR could already be "underdogged" by GAS/5s/chewy/han. Just sayin, it's not new, even if it isn't preferable. The main new thing, tbh, is that a brand-new GL on offense has basically no hope of beating an older meta squad without shoving him in that underman GAS counter squad.
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    So a character seemed to be one of the 4 “pinnacle of power” master toons should be getting 3 manned by DR? Yeah I don’t think so.
    I'm not saying it should be happening, just why it's happening. If the squad is setup differently--faster toons that aren't half of DR's ferocity speed, better debuff management, JML taunting outside of the leader slot--I think DR probably gets smashed.

    We know why it’s happening. But it shouldn’t be. And it’s not a 4 person attack. You need a 5th and it’s not possible without a tanky 5’s, GAS at R7, chewy buffed out. Hand buffed out, and you need Hyoda.
  • GLs should have never been able to be feared just like they can’t be stunned.
  • Just put the other luke in slot leader and you cant win with drevan
  • XaVii wrote: »
    Just put the other luke in slot leader and you cant win with drevan
    And now your fancy new GL Tank can’t taunt without Wat. Or reach his ultimate. Or do essentially anything besides getting Heroes Arise off slightly faster and having an AoE Ability Block that will end up being used at the same time as an AoE Stun.
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    Shaddess wrote: »
    GLs should have never been able to be feared just like they can’t be stunned.

    GLs are immune to fear.
  • Just pondering here...
    • It seems in many of these scenarios, the real troublemaker is Wat :)
    • Other than that, Revans should be promoted to the status of "Galactic Legend" since that what Revan in fact was back in his time. Just add the tag to the Revans, and there you go -- the counter becomes valid AND you can't add Revans to the other GL teams anymore. In truth, Revans should have been the first GLs, IMO. But what gives...

    Notice, I am not making a suggestion or request here, just making an observation rather...
  • ... and a further comic observation in the same manner, C3P0 and Wat are also sorts of GLs too :)
  • Canadafett
    55 posts Member
    edited October 18
    gunnymeden wrote: »
    ... and a further comic observation in the same manner, C3P0 and Wat are also sorts of GLs too :)

    No, they are just very good utility toons, same with Hyoda and this game severely lacks utility support toons so they just plug in so many teams.
  • Canadafett wrote: »
    gunnymeden wrote: »
    ... and a further comic observation in the same manner, C3P0 and Wat are also sorts of GLs too :)

    No, they are just very good utility toons, same with Hyoda and this game severely lacks utility support toons so they just plug in so many teams.

    Yes, I agree. Hence, "comic" :)
  • I think that part of the problem likely is that Jml, gas, jkl, hoda, jkr may not be the best defensive team for a jml lead.

    The fact that Darth revan destroys it is probably proof of tgat much.

    The real question is whether there is a better comp out there that prevents this issue.

    Maybe put gmy in there for the tenacity up. With proper mods, he can out speed dark Bastilla. May not prevent Darth revan's fear but would definitely help with the shocks.

    Maybe put go in there as a second tank?

    And as others have mentioned jkl lead with jml ranking completely destroys Darth revan's fear.

    It just seems with so many obvious ways to potentially avoid this issue, that saying it's broken is a bit premature.

    If every comp that has jml in it can be 3v5 countered, then they may seem it being fixed. But if it is just this one comp, and there are better options out there that hold better, then it obviously isn't an issue.

    It also depends on how reliable that counter really is. It looks great on the video but videos like that can be deceiving. I have been experimenting with vader lead against the one jml team in our shard. One battle went very well and I won easily. But then several others with the exact same comps were horrible losses.

    But had I posted a video saying that vader countered it easily, then people would be calling for a nerf even though it is a counter but a rng dependent one.

    Lastly modding needs to discussed. Are we sure the jml team shown has the best modding for that team. Maybe it needs modded for more tenacity?
  • dgree
    120 posts Member
    Tenacity is good for the debuffs other than fear (which JKL and JML are immune to anyway), but once DR gets ferocity he'll have decent potency. One issue modding-wise: DR is just so much faster with ferocity stacks than these turtle titan jedi. If an enemy unit is too slow, DR can go twice before they have a chance to move. That specific squad setup really relies on properly using proper mechanics on offense for turns that can be prevented if the team is left on defense.
  • dgree wrote: »
    Tenacity is good for the debuffs other than fear (which JKL and JML are immune to anyway), but once DR gets ferocity he'll have decent potency. One issue modding-wise: DR is just so much faster with ferocity stacks than these turtle titan jedi. If an enemy unit is too slow, DR can go twice before they have a chance to move. That specific squad setup really relies on properly using proper mechanics on offense for turns that can be prevented if the team is left on defense.

    Tenacity up tends to stop the shocks pretty well even with the stacks of ferocity. Except for darth revan's fear which can't be resisted except where immune.

    I've used Darth revan enough to know that if the enemy gets tenacity up, you likely won't land the debuffs. I even ran gmy in my Darth revan team when it was meta for much easier mirror matches.

    So if you can get a cleanse and tenacity up, you could probably spread the jedi teachings and get to jml's ultimate before Darth revan can get through jml.

    So what's the best team then? Well it seems you need a cleanser and tenacity up to hold against Darth revan. So you have jml, gmy, and gk. Then you likely still want savior so you have jkr as a 4th. Then you have either jkl or gas for damage.

    I think that would be a better balanced team for defense. Though you could probably leave jkr out and use both gas and jkl. I'm not sold that savior is necessarily needed since jml taunts and is pretty tanky and on offense, the opponent will just kill jkr first anyway.
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