I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
hello CG,while you give JML a buff,can you please explain that why SEE BEING RAVAGED by five EMPIRE TROOPER?When people say DR can defeat JML,you told them it will be a buff,but what about SEE?It's HARDER to get it than REY and SLKR.
As far as I know, cg hasn't said anything about buffing jml because Darth revan beat him. They made a minor ai change because Luke wasn't spreading his buffs the way they liked.
I believe that Darth revan can still beat the jedi titans under jml after that.
The issue is more that DR wins with just him, Bastilla, and any level wat so long as he’s zeta’d.
The fix to that is make his teachings unpreventable or undispellable. Or make some kind of immunity to fear.
It’s a simple fix honestly so then the ultimate can charge and things can be tested that way.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Then they shouldn’t be rushed. If this is the release cadence then they really need to test test test.
Definitely not wise making the people investing lots of money,resources,time to then buff or debuff their investments.
Bit my hand once shame on you, bit my hand twice shame on me.
They will never be able to do the amount of testing the community can do in as little as 1 week, it's just not possible, from a numbers standard point.
This is not about some obscure team compositions, though. Most of the "surprising" counters are fairly obvious, so it begs the question what are they actually testing. It started with emergency buff to Malak after a team that debuffs itself shockingly got countered by a team that feeds off debuffs and hasn't really improved since.
It could be ineptitude as you suggest or the more likely explanation is that they figured out that Darth revan can counter jml and are ok with it.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
hello CG,while you give JML a buff,can you please explain that why SEE BEING RAVAGED by five EMPIRE TROOPER?When people say DR can defeat JML,you told them it will be a buff,but what about SEE?It's HARDER to get it than REY and SLKR.
As far as I know, cg hasn't said anything about buffing jml because Darth revan beat him. They made a minor ai change because Luke wasn't spreading his buffs the way they liked.
I believe that Darth revan can still beat the jedi titans under jml after that.
The issue is more that DR wins with just him, Bastilla, and any level wat so long as he’s zeta’d.
The fix to that is make his teachings unpreventable or undispellable. Or make some kind of immunity to fear.
It’s a simple fix honestly so then the ultimate can charge and things can be tested that way.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Can’t get to ultimate while the entire team is feared.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
hello CG,while you give JML a buff,can you please explain that why SEE BEING RAVAGED by five EMPIRE TROOPER?When people say DR can defeat JML,you told them it will be a buff,but what about SEE?It's HARDER to get it than REY and SLKR.
As far as I know, cg hasn't said anything about buffing jml because Darth revan beat him. They made a minor ai change because Luke wasn't spreading his buffs the way they liked.
I believe that Darth revan can still beat the jedi titans under jml after that.
The issue is more that DR wins with just him, Bastilla, and any level wat so long as he’s zeta’d.
The fix to that is make his teachings unpreventable or undispellable. Or make some kind of immunity to fear.
It’s a simple fix honestly so then the ultimate can charge and things can be tested that way.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Can’t get to ultimate while the entire team is feared.
The entire team isn't always feared. Both jml and jkl are immune to it. And the rest of the team still aren't feared all the time.
I have used Darth revan (full team with wat) against jml. While ef he doesn't always get his ultimate, he has at least once out of around 5 battles so far. So it is definitely not impossible with the fear.
Then they shouldn’t be rushed. If this is the release cadence then they really need to test test test.
Definitely not wise making the people investing lots of money,resources,time to then buff or debuff their investments.
Bit my hand once shame on you, bit my hand twice shame on me.
They will never be able to do the amount of testing the community can do in as little as 1 week, it's just not possible, from a numbers standard point.
This is not about some obscure team compositions, though. Most of the "surprising" counters are fairly obvious, so it begs the question what are they actually testing. It started with emergency buff to Malak after a team that debuffs itself shockingly got countered by a team that feeds off debuffs and hasn't really improved since.
It could be ineptitude as you suggest or the more likely explanation is that they figured out that Darth revan can counter jml and are ok with it.
That could be the case too. Or they are aware all along, plan to make adjustments, but want to see the GLs out in the wild even in their unfinished state first.
Then they shouldn’t be rushed. If this is the release cadence then they really need to test test test.
Definitely not wise making the people investing lots of money,resources,time to then buff or debuff their investments.
Bit my hand once shame on you, bit my hand twice shame on me.
They will never be able to do the amount of testing the community can do in as little as 1 week, it's just not possible, from a numbers standard point.
This is not about some obscure team compositions, though. Most of the "surprising" counters are fairly obvious, so it begs the question what are they actually testing. It started with emergency buff to Malak after a team that debuffs itself shockingly got countered by a team that feeds off debuffs and hasn't really improved since.
It could be ineptitude as you suggest or the more likely explanation is that they figured out that Darth revan can counter jml and are ok with it.
That could be the case too. Or they are aware all along, plan to make adjustments, but want to see the GLs out in the wild even in their unfinished state first.
I'm not sure why they would be aware of a counter that they plan to buff a team to remove and not fix it before release. That just sounds like a bad idea to me. But I suppose it is possible.
did this game ever have open beta environment or they continue to use us as live testers? some spend a fortune on them and feel jebaited
They announced the player evaluation team a while back with open applications. As far as we know that team is one of the rounds of testing that goes on.
Then they shouldn’t be rushed. If this is the release cadence then they really need to test test test.
Definitely not wise making the people investing lots of money,resources,time to then buff or debuff their investments.
Bit my hand once shame on you, bit my hand twice shame on me.
They will never be able to do the amount of testing the community can do in as little as 1 week, it's just not possible, from a numbers standard point.
This is not about some obscure team compositions, though. Most of the "surprising" counters are fairly obvious, so it begs the question what are they actually testing. It started with emergency buff to Malak after a team that debuffs itself shockingly got countered by a team that feeds off debuffs and hasn't really improved since.
No but if you think about testing this game within the confines of the game (no sandbox mode), there will always be limitations to the amount of time they can put in to mod every team and character to the same extent of mods that a larger group will have. As just one example of a way the larger group will always be able to more thoroughly test things.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
hello CG,while you give JML a buff,can you please explain that why SEE BEING RAVAGED by five EMPIRE TROOPER?When people say DR can defeat JML,you told them it will be a buff,but what about SEE?It's HARDER to get it than REY and SLKR.
As far as I know, cg hasn't said anything about buffing jml because Darth revan beat him. They made a minor ai change because Luke wasn't spreading his buffs the way they liked.
I believe that Darth revan can still beat the jedi titans under jml after that.
The issue is more that DR wins with just him, Bastilla, and any level wat so long as he’s zeta’d.
The fix to that is make his teachings unpreventable or undispellable. Or make some kind of immunity to fear.
It’s a simple fix honestly so then the ultimate can charge and things can be tested that way.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Can’t get to ultimate while the entire team is feared.
The entire team isn't always feared. Both jml and jkl are immune to it. And the rest of the team still aren't feared all the time.
I have used Darth revan (full team with wat) against jml. While ef he doesn't always get his ultimate, he has at least once out of around 5 battles so far. So it is definitely not impossible with the fear.
JML can be feared. He is not immune to that.
He cannot be feared. He is immune to stun effects like fear
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
But Hoda totally needs Crit Chance and Offense Up!!!
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
Is information like that available in swgoh.gg?
Yes.
I.guess not, I thought it was in the mechanism section, but no they dont show target preference details
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
I just wish grumpy Luke wasn't bugged, and that "testers" would find the obvious bugs like he currently has.
They should've let me be a beta tester!
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
Is information like that available in swgoh.gg?
Yes.
I.guess not, I thought it was in the mechanism section, but no they dont show target preference details
@CG_Doja_Fett really appreciate the communication. Great work. Good points about buffing vs nerfing... but about the testing was done part of what u said I'd brush up on dr/malaak release vs ep lead.
Specifically,
Recall EP lead strength is enemy debuffs and EP lead was meta for a long time so it was well well known and popular... then they release dr malaak which debuffs itself yet clearly forgot to test it against the #1 most obvious team that synergies on enemy debuffs. This was equivalent to making baseballs that explode on contact then saying it was overlooked in testing. Possibly but thats just a creative way to say the baseball testing ****.
It's totally understandable that not all combinations are found and if there was some odd interaction with see or gml and a tusken then the community would be more understanding. Same for volume as well 1 team ok 2 teams ok but like 10 teams beating new GL people gonna call it what it is.
Back to the new GLs when one of the most obvious combinations (using the current meta leader GLKylo as a solo to avoid the link) breaks through the testing process and this seemingly obvious combo or cheese isn't noticed until after release its hard to imagine that sufficient testing was done. Just my opinion.
I'm not an expert at what testing they do but at the end of the day if they missed using the current most popular and best meta lead character to solo their new GL then at least imo their testing prerelease was very insufficient.
Maybe they should open up some opportunities for veterans like myself who have been playing since release to help them test? I'm sure a lot of vets could have predicted kylo solo vs see given the kit descriptions. But that again presents issues especially since they seem to want to keep kits secret till 11th hour.
Imo this whole were gonna release stuff then see what happens and adjust later makes it feel like we're in a beta game not a billion dollar premier game. Especially when so much seems to have been missed, either that or there is a huge gap between player expectations for new GL and CG expectations. For years now the newest and most expensive teams dominated requiring select teams to beat them, now if New GL characters can be beat by many many existing combos, that's good for the game imo, especially long term. But... That's not what players have been programmed to expect over the last 3.5 years.
If tldr then just know I hope there is a flattening of power creep because what sifuSteve says below is very very true.
This game was AMAZING and the most fun I have had in a guild team game years ago when it was possible to climb to #1 using several teams all available to all players for a small investment.
Come on guys... They broke all the rules of their own game with GLs. What did you think was going to happen?
Did you really think that all the toons from SWGoH would play nice with toons that, for all intents and purposes, might as well be from SWGoH2?
Of course the AI doesn't know what is going on! It's designed for a game with almost entirely different rules to the rules thar GLs play by.
I wouldn't expect a fix any time soon...
or they were designed differently, without the intent of sitting on defense but being able to beat many teams (including other GLs) on offense.
Its also possible that the players are the ones stuck thinking of the same "rules" when trying to make these new teams/GLs work.
That's a fair point, and I like your angle.
I've been here since November 2015 and the one constant has been that 'any team can be beaten on defense'. It rang true for a long time because every team conformed to the rules... and so it should be! AI shouldn't be able to out-strategise a human being, IMHO.
But with the advent of Nihilus with his 'I don't care about the rules, you die!' Annihilate, they set a precedent that the old rules of Offense vs Defence, Accuracy vs Evasion and Potency vs Tenacity could be broken.
Sadly, around the same time, they also showed that you could have an entire team's utility in two toons: Chaze. Since then, it's been a corporately driven power creep that's made GoH pay to win, culminating in the end-of-life hyperdrive bundle and new code based around advertising that's soon to arrive (look it up!).
What you suggest is actually quite comforting: If you want to achieve greatness then you need to do it yourself and not rely on AI. You'll have to put in your 5+ Arena battles every day if you want that #1 spot. I had that experience for about 18 months and it was the best GoH I played. If CG are really reverting back to that philosophy, then I may just see it through... as long as their greed doesn't ostracise me too much.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
hello CG,while you give JML a buff,can you please explain that why SEE BEING RAVAGED by five EMPIRE TROOPER?When people say DR can defeat JML,you told them it will be a buff,but what about SEE?It's HARDER to get it than REY and SLKR.
As far as I know, cg hasn't said anything about buffing jml because Darth revan beat him. They made a minor ai change because Luke wasn't spreading his buffs the way they liked.
I believe that Darth revan can still beat the jedi titans under jml after that.
The issue is more that DR wins with just him, Bastilla, and any level wat so long as he’s zeta’d.
The fix to that is make his teachings unpreventable or undispellable. Or make some kind of immunity to fear.
It’s a simple fix honestly so then the ultimate can charge and things can be tested that way.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Can’t get to ultimate while the entire team is feared.
The entire team isn't always feared. Both jml and jkl are immune to it. And the rest of the team still aren't feared all the time.
I have used Darth revan (full team with wat) against jml. While ef he doesn't always get his ultimate, he has at least once out of around 5 battles so far. So it is definitely not impossible with the fear.
JML can be feared. He is not immune to that.
Pretty sure all GLs are immune. I use Darth revan to counter and never see the fear debuff on him.
@CG_Doja_Fett really appreciate the communication. Great work. Good points about buffing vs nerfing... but about the testing was done part of what u said I'd brush up on dr/malaak release vs ep lead.
Specifically,
Recall EP lead strength is enemy debuffs and EP lead was meta for a long time so it was well well known and popular... then they release dr malaak which debuffs itself yet clearly forgot to test it against the #1 most obvious team that synergies on enemy debuffs. This was equivalent to making baseballs that explode on contact then saying it was overlooked in testing. Possibly but thats just a creative way to say the baseball testing ****.
It's totally understandable that not all combinations are found and if there was some odd interaction with see or gml and a tusken then the community would be more understanding. Same for volume as well 1 team ok 2 teams ok but like 10 teams beating new GL people gonna call it what it is.
Back to the new GLs when one of the most obvious combinations (using the current meta leader GLKylo as a solo to avoid the link) breaks through the testing process and this seemingly obvious combo or cheese isn't noticed until after release its hard to imagine that sufficient testing was done. Just my opinion.
I'm not an expert at what testing they do but at the end of the day if they missed using the current most popular and best meta lead character to solo their new GL then at least imo their testing prerelease was very insufficient.
Maybe they should open up some opportunities for veterans like myself who have been playing since release to help them test? I'm sure a lot of vets could have predicted kylo solo vs see given the kit descriptions. But that again presents issues especially since they seem to want to keep kits secret till 11th hour.
Imo this whole were gonna release stuff then see what happens and adjust later makes it feel like we're in a beta game not a billion dollar premier game. Especially when so much seems to have been missed, either that or there is a huge gap between player expectations for new GL and CG expectations. For years now the newest and most expensive teams dominated requiring select teams to beat them, now if New GL characters can be beat by many many existing combos, that's good for the game imo, especially long term. But... That's not what players have been programmed to expect over the last 3.5 years.
So if it's a good thing that the new GLs are not overpowered, then maybe we should just accept it and be happy.
Let's assume that this was planned. What more could they do. They stated right when they announced the new GLs that they would be roughly on par. And with jml, kylo, and palps, it really is rock paper scissors with Rey doing okay but not destroying anyone of them. And they all have ftp counters. Some more than others. Although, I'm still skeptical that some of the counters will be reliable. A counter that works one in ten times or requires vastly superior mods can be done but isn't really viable.
But if it's healthy for the game for the new GLs not to be buffed, and they told us up front they wouldn't necessarily dominate the other GLs, then what more can be done? I guess they could continue the power creep since that's what players expect and are currently demanding. But I don't think that's a good solution
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Wow doja, thanks is for this communication, so refreshing.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
All of this applies to SEE as well. CG keeps an eye on the performance of units once they're in the wild. Nothing specific to report, but I'll keep doing my best to relay sentiment.
@CG_Doja_Fett really appreciate the communication. Great work. Good points about buffing vs nerfing... but about the testing was done part of what u said I'd brush up on dr/malaak release vs ep lead.
Specifically,
Recall EP lead strength is enemy debuffs and EP lead was meta for a long time so it was well well known and popular... then they release dr malaak which debuffs itself yet clearly forgot to test it against the #1 most obvious team that synergies on enemy debuffs. This was equivalent to making baseballs that explode on contact then saying it was overlooked in testing. Possibly but thats just a creative way to say the baseball testing ****.
It's totally understandable that not all combinations are found and if there was some odd interaction with see or gml and a tusken then the community would be more understanding. Same for volume as well 1 team ok 2 teams ok but like 10 teams beating new GL people gonna call it what it is.
Back to the new GLs when one of the most obvious combinations (using the current meta leader GLKylo as a solo to avoid the link) breaks through the testing process and this seemingly obvious combo or cheese isn't noticed until after release its hard to imagine that sufficient testing was done. Just my opinion.
I'm not an expert at what testing they do but at the end of the day if they missed using the current most popular and best meta lead character to solo their new GL then at least imo their testing prerelease was very insufficient.
Maybe they should open up some opportunities for veterans like myself who have been playing since release to help them test? I'm sure a lot of vets could have predicted kylo solo vs see given the kit descriptions. But that again presents issues especially since they seem to want to keep kits secret till 11th hour.
Imo this whole were gonna release stuff then see what happens and adjust later makes it feel like we're in a beta game not a billion dollar premier game. Especially when so much seems to have been missed, either that or there is a huge gap between player expectations for new GL and CG expectations. For years now the newest and most expensive teams dominated requiring select teams to beat them, now if New GL characters can be beat by many many existing combos, that's good for the game imo, especially long term. But... That's not what players have been programmed to expect over the last 3.5 years.
I've reached out. Not sure I'll get the in-depth dev response on this as the Scrybe video per se. JML is still pretty new in the wild and MY GUESS (and let's operate under the umbrella that this is MY two cents, no one else's) is that maybe he needs a little time to marinate and be monitored now that he's in the wild. As others have pointed out, people were clowning on SLKR when he first released and now our lil baby has grown up quite a bit.
There was a fix for JML's AI that went out today. I'm not saying that's gonna be applicable to this scenario, but it's another layer of the onion that adds strength to his character overall.
Based on what I know of this industry - especially live service games - is that it's way easier and less risky to release a unit that is somewhere around the levels you're aiming for (not saying that happened in this instance, just speaking in generalities based on MY experience and opinions) and then slowly increase their power if/when needed, versus releasing a unit that hits exactly where you want, and then having to nerf/decrease power.
This is due in part to the fact that no matter how much balance testing you do as a dev team (and yes balance testing was done. Suggesting otherwise is silliness), once the unit is released it now has hundreds of thousands if not millions of eyes on it. These are eyes are passionate and hungry to figure out ways to use this new unit, and through sheer numbers, they will certainly undo the careful planning of far fewer designers and balance testers.
You, the players, are smart. Some of you are downright experts, and with all the possible unit combos in the game, someone somewhere is going to think of some shenanigans that not only impress, but likely scare the developers. Still, watching gamers figure out the "puzzle" or use a unit in unanticipated ways brings us a lot of joy (and probably in some cases terror).
Point is, even if a dev team is fairly certain where a unit will land in the grand scheme of things, often times the community will figure out a way to make it be about 20-30 percent better than they thought.
Other times, the community simply needs time to figure out how to best utilize a new toy.
I hope this frame of reference helps, and I'm confident JML will continue to be watched as things progress.
Lastly, did I mention all of this is just, like, my opinion, man?
Yes. Yes, I did.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
All of this applies to SEE as well. CG keeps an eye on the performance of units once they're in the wild. Nothing specific to report, but I'll keep doing my best to relay sentiment.
Replies
They asked for beta testers a while ago. Not sure how it turned out.
Has that been tested since the ai fix? It does seem that he gets to his ultimate sooner since then.
I'm also still not convinced that the team comp that underdog team worked on is the best one.
Agree to disagree I guess.
It could be ineptitude as you suggest or the more likely explanation is that they figured out that Darth revan can counter jml and are ok with it.
Can’t get to ultimate while the entire team is feared.
The entire team isn't always feared. Both jml and jkl are immune to it. And the rest of the team still aren't feared all the time.
I have used Darth revan (full team with wat) against jml. While ef he doesn't always get his ultimate, he has at least once out of around 5 battles so far. So it is definitely not impossible with the fear.
That could be the case too. Or they are aware all along, plan to make adjustments, but want to see the GLs out in the wild even in their unfinished state first.
I'm not sure why they would be aware of a counter that they plan to buff a team to remove and not fix it before release. That just sounds like a bad idea to me. But I suppose it is possible.
They announced the player evaluation team a while back with open applications. As far as we know that team is one of the rounds of testing that goes on.
No but if you think about testing this game within the confines of the game (no sandbox mode), there will always be limitations to the amount of time they can put in to mod every team and character to the same extent of mods that a larger group will have. As just one example of a way the larger group will always be able to more thoroughly test things.
He cannot be feared. He is immune to stun effects like fear
What games like this have an AI testing new characters?
Also have you seen how the AI operates in game play, do you think having that running against itself would have proved anything?
Also, someone would have to set up each team with mods or at least mod values, the AI cannot do that.
I have other issues with the AI that needs to be fixed, like Bastila Shan almost always calling a support toon to assist with her Rally special, which ends up being Wat Tambor, or Hoda most of the time!
Make Wat or Hoda more tanky.
"target_lowest_debuffed_ally_exclude_self"
Is information like that available in swgoh.gg?
Yes.
I.guess not, I thought it was in the mechanism section, but no they dont show target preference details
No
Super secret double probation stash
Specifically,
Recall EP lead strength is enemy debuffs and EP lead was meta for a long time so it was well well known and popular... then they release dr malaak which debuffs itself yet clearly forgot to test it against the #1 most obvious team that synergies on enemy debuffs. This was equivalent to making baseballs that explode on contact then saying it was overlooked in testing. Possibly but thats just a creative way to say the baseball testing ****.
It's totally understandable that not all combinations are found and if there was some odd interaction with see or gml and a tusken then the community would be more understanding. Same for volume as well 1 team ok 2 teams ok but like 10 teams beating new GL people gonna call it what it is.
Back to the new GLs when one of the most obvious combinations (using the current meta leader GLKylo as a solo to avoid the link) breaks through the testing process and this seemingly obvious combo or cheese isn't noticed until after release its hard to imagine that sufficient testing was done. Just my opinion.
I'm not an expert at what testing they do but at the end of the day if they missed using the current most popular and best meta lead character to solo their new GL then at least imo their testing prerelease was very insufficient.
Maybe they should open up some opportunities for veterans like myself who have been playing since release to help them test? I'm sure a lot of vets could have predicted kylo solo vs see given the kit descriptions. But that again presents issues especially since they seem to want to keep kits secret till 11th hour.
Imo this whole were gonna release stuff then see what happens and adjust later makes it feel like we're in a beta game not a billion dollar premier game. Especially when so much seems to have been missed, either that or there is a huge gap between player expectations for new GL and CG expectations. For years now the newest and most expensive teams dominated requiring select teams to beat them, now if New GL characters can be beat by many many existing combos, that's good for the game imo, especially long term. But... That's not what players have been programmed to expect over the last 3.5 years.
This game was AMAZING and the most fun I have had in a guild team game years ago when it was possible to climb to #1 using several teams all available to all players for a small investment.
Pretty sure all GLs are immune. I use Darth revan to counter and never see the fear debuff on him.
So if it's a good thing that the new GLs are not overpowered, then maybe we should just accept it and be happy.
Let's assume that this was planned. What more could they do. They stated right when they announced the new GLs that they would be roughly on par. And with jml, kylo, and palps, it really is rock paper scissors with Rey doing okay but not destroying anyone of them. And they all have ftp counters. Some more than others. Although, I'm still skeptical that some of the counters will be reliable. A counter that works one in ten times or requires vastly superior mods can be done but isn't really viable.
But if it's healthy for the game for the new GLs not to be buffed, and they told us up front they wouldn't necessarily dominate the other GLs, then what more can be done? I guess they could continue the power creep since that's what players expect and are currently demanding. But I don't think that's a good solution
All of this applies to SEE as well. CG keeps an eye on the performance of units once they're in the wild. Nothing specific to report, but I'll keep doing my best to relay sentiment.
This! Over and over again this!
Thank you!