SEE definitely needs a buff!

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So, SEE in my opinion seems to 100% need a buff done too him, its quite ridiculous how bad he is.

Palp teams can kill him, Geo teams can kill him, Sep teams can kill him, vader teams can kill him, Imperial Troopers absolutely destroy him, and Kylo can 1 v 5 him.

This doesn't feel like a galactic legend at all, specially no where near the power level of Rey and Kylo.
Its arguable that even JML who definitely needs some tweaks also, is actually better off than SEE.
Sure SEE does massive damage once you get the ultimate out but, that's IF you can get the ultimate out and you definitely need him for offense if you want too use it.
When placed on defence, he doesn't get a chance, his entire team get wiped out almost instantly by so so many different teams.
Im sure over the next week we'll see even more silly counters come to light.

And despite what the videos say, you can not solo GAS with him, myself and 2 other people have tried now multiple times and clones just rip through him, so that video was clearly faked an had their mods removed on the 501st.

Again, this is just me voicing my opinion, and im sure it'll trigger many people as what doesnt on the forums but, im thinking maybe give him some leadership defensive bonuses for his team at least and maybe some damage bonuses like Kylo has. Specially considering hes meant to be used with Tanks.
And his ability where all Sith recover 50% protection is a bit silly considering Sith rely on Health in the game.

Just my two cense on it. Please buff "both" GL's.

Replies

  • Put up a post about this myself not to long ago tonight. 100% agree with you that he needs work doing to him in a big way.
  • dgree
    269 posts Member
    edited October 24
    So, SEE in my opinion seems to 100% need a buff done too him, its quite ridiculous how bad he is.

    SEE is Too Weak - - suggestions :)
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    if you have a toon that you think is bad on defense my advice is to use him on offense.

    Hes not even that good on offense. In most matchups the sith does just as well if not better without him. Sure, you can solo GAS and Rebels (both of which you rarely see on defense) but those solos are very risky.
  • Thats also true, he's not actually that good offense wise either.

    If CG dont start to buff these GL's soon, no one is going to end up going for any of them.
  • Eweff
    311 posts Member
    edited October 24
    He definitely doesn’t feel like a GL. He seems like other legendary characters.
  • Nope, he’s strong enough...
  • Ahaha yeah, i forgot all about that. We all had to farm useless characters to get another useless one in return.. mmhh 🤦‍♂️
  • Ahaha yeah, i forgot all about that. We all had to farm useless characters to get another useless one in return.. mmhh 🤦‍♂️

    That’s a good summary
  • Jarvind
    3727 posts Member
    I have to wonder how many of these complaints can be attributed to people not choosing complementary teammates and modding him badly, as opposed to him actually being as bad as everyone wants to believe he is.

    I agree that SEE (and JKL for that matter) isn't as strong as Rey or Kylo, but mine with no ult and still missing a zeta has gotten multiple holds in GA just leading a decent Traya trio and a g12 Sith Empire Trooper, which isn't exactly squad arena material. I'd hardly relegate that to the trash bin.

    I also wonder how many of these complaints are stemming from the stupid Ahnald video of a full R7 trooper team, which most people don't have, mowing down an SEE with no tanks, which is just a garbage comp and deserves to lose on defense.
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  • VelvetDiamond_R6
    72 posts Member
    edited October 24
    Jarvind wrote: »
    I have to wonder how many of these complaints can be attributed to people not choosing complementary teammates and modding him badly, as opposed to him actually being as bad as everyone wants to believe he is.

    I agree that SEE (and JKL for that matter) isn't as strong as Rey or Kylo, but mine with no ult and still missing a zeta has gotten multiple holds in GA just leading a decent Traya trio and a g12 Sith Empire Trooper, which isn't exactly squad arena material. I'd hardly relegate that to the trash bin.

    I also wonder how many of these complaints are stemming from the stupid Ahnald video of a full R7 trooper team, which most people don't have, mowing down an SEE with no tanks, which is just a garbage comp and deserves to lose on defense.

    Id just like to point out that my SEE is modded as best as they can be with the correct mods. And that i have a Trooper squad myself, relic 4 and 5 mostly, and i wasted a SEE team with a tank. I was using Veers, Starck, Death, Piett, Shore. And he was using a full trio SEE team an never got the chance to to use his ultimate.

    The video has merit shamefully. SEE definitely needs work doing to him.
  • But how is he modded? Speed? Protection? Offense? I think the jury’s still out on the optimal way to mod him.
  • I asked on another thread and it seemed it doesn't change anything, but all battles i've seen with see on youtube don't use the 'strategy tip' given by developer's: using 3 or 4 tanks and try to keep see alive until ultimate. A reasonable amount of testing using this strategy would go a long way to argue that see doesn't perform as intended.
  • Yeah the modding seems to not matter much, ive tried Speed Protection, Speed Health, Speed an Pro/Health mix, no matter how you mod him, you always get the same results.

    So either way he needs some serious work doing to him. There are like 5 f2p counters now and probably more by this time tomorrow. An he really cant hold up on defense, no matter who you use with him. Even if you use DR an Badstilla, or entire tank teams with him, or Sith Trio, its always the same. He and His team get obliterated. An hes not that good on offense either.

    I really think he needs a leadership boost an some defense bonuses for everyone, anything to keep him alive for more than 60seconds.
  • our emperor eternal has too many issues for this to go unchanged. I think some kind of kit work over is needed for sure!

    I like the idea you put out of adding sith defensive bonuses to his lead even tho I believe it will require more than that to make him a viable gl

    a buff is well justified
  • I have now just been informed that Padme is also on the list of teams that can use SEE as toilet paper.
  • Kyno
    26612 posts Moderator
    I have now just been informed that Padme is also on the list of teams that can use SEE as toilet paper.


    Posting videos of these tests can be helpful in allowing people to make judgements on their own. It also give a chance for more people to be involved and give feedback about changes and strategy.

    We have seen many videos of not the best matchups and using those to say one or the other is trash.

    There is also the idea that if they made all 4 GLs stand alones on defense that players would still need to hold them for offense as there are only so many DVs, WATs, Thrawns,....ext. which means they could have had less of a defensive mindset and designed them to do what they do on offense.

    Thinking of the overall roster strategy rather then the arena mindset. They have been hinting at wanting to get away from arena as the driving force, and it's possible they were going for the rock paper scissor type setup, where there are just situations where it doesnt make sense to put certain teams on defense, for any reason.

    I am not saying they should not look at making changes, just suggesting that the community also step back and look at this whole thing with a little perspective too.
  • SithAmer wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I have now just been informed that Padme is also on the list of teams that can use SEE as toilet paper.


    Posting videos of these tests can be helpful in allowing people to make judgements on their own. It also give a chance for more people to be involved and give feedback about changes and strategy.

    We have seen many videos of not the best matchups and using those to say one or the other is trash.

    There is also the idea that if they made all 4 GLs stand alones on defense that players would still need to hold them for offense as there are only so many DVs, WATs, Thrawns,....ext. which means they could have had less of a defensive mindset and designed them to do what they do on offense.

    Thinking of the overall roster strategy rather then the arena mindset. They have been hinting at wanting to get away from arena as the driving force, and it's possible they were going for the rock paper scissor type setup, where there are just situations where it doesnt make sense to put certain teams on defense, for any reason.

    I am not saying they should not look at making changes, just suggesting that the community also step back and look at this whole thing with a little perspective too.

    I do not agree with this at all. If somebody has to relic and gear up more than 13 toons and a ship to get one GL, he better be **** good and on par with other GLs. If a GL which requires so much investment has so many non-GL counters, it is a very serious issue and dissuades people from ever investing in a GL. I have SLKR and I am farming for SEE at the moment. After seeing such posts, I am having serious doubts on proceeding further. If JML AI can be fixed, it is critical that SEE kit also gets a rework to bring him on par with other GLs.

    Got both Kylo and SEE and its a world of difference between them. Kylo can take c-tier FO and turn them into a power house, whereas SEE takes A-tier sith and barely does anything for them. Whatever SEE does Kylo does 10 times better. Kylo does way more dmg both before and after SEEs ult, he has better survivability and better cc. Even SEEs link is mostly a weaker version of Kylos mastery reduction.
  • Kyno
    26612 posts Moderator
    SithAmer wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I have now just been informed that Padme is also on the list of teams that can use SEE as toilet paper.


    Posting videos of these tests can be helpful in allowing people to make judgements on their own. It also give a chance for more people to be involved and give feedback about changes and strategy.

    We have seen many videos of not the best matchups and using those to say one or the other is trash.

    There is also the idea that if they made all 4 GLs stand alones on defense that players would still need to hold them for offense as there are only so many DVs, WATs, Thrawns,....ext. which means they could have had less of a defensive mindset and designed them to do what they do on offense.

    Thinking of the overall roster strategy rather then the arena mindset. They have been hinting at wanting to get away from arena as the driving force, and it's possible they were going for the rock paper scissor type setup, where there are just situations where it doesnt make sense to put certain teams on defense, for any reason.

    I am not saying they should not look at making changes, just suggesting that the community also step back and look at this whole thing with a little perspective too.

    I do not agree with this at all. If somebody has to relic and gear up more than 13 toons and a ship to get one GL, he better be **** good and on par with other GLs. If a GL which requires so much investment has so many non-GL counters, it is a very serious issue and dissuades people from ever investing in a GL. I have SLKR and I am farming for SEE at the moment. After seeing such posts, I am having serious doubts on proceeding further. If JML AI can be fixed, it is critical that SEE kit also gets a rework to bring him on par with other GLs.

    I didnt say they couldnt use a buff, but if SEE has a comp that will be crushing everything when on offense. He is on par with the other GLs.

    He doesnt need to be stand alone on defense. There are plenty of fun and powerful teams that never go on D because they have reliable counters.

    This is just my thoughts on the overall process, dont let me sway you in any way.

    You cannot compare an AI not doing what they want it to, to a reworking of a kit. Those are 2 very different things.

    They are, as always, keeping an eye on things and they stated they want them on par. So we will see how this plays out. I just wanted to point out that on par doesnt mean they will be unbeatable on defense. Complex kits tend do not be great on defense. Both old GLs have none GL counters and I'm sure if they feel this situation is out of line they will do something to rein it in.
  • Yeah im not sure i agree with that either.

    But having a f2p counter is fine and all, i think there should be at least 1 if not 2 per every GL but having 5, 6 or 7 counters if not more in the coming days for SEE is just absolutely absurd.

    For a Galactic Legend, he definitely needs to be viable on both offense and defense. So far nearly all the counter teams can wipe him out in under 60seconds. Where as Luke, Rey and Kylo you have to work for it. SEE is by far the worst GL right now.
    An considering we all had to farm horrible characters that need reworks like Royal Guard and Krennic, that basically have no value in the game right now at all, just to get a horrible GL in return, is just very off putting.

    People are definitely going to avoid him an go after Luke, Rey or Kylo instead unless he has a lot more survivability, if not for himself but for his team. His leadership doesnt do basically anything for for whoever you run him with.

    But anyway, 1 or 2 F2P counters im fine with, but the amount that are popping up right now is just a big no for what is suppose to be a GL.
  • Kyno
    26612 posts Moderator
    Yeah im not sure i agree with that either.

    But having a f2p counter is fine and all, i think there should be at least 1 if not 2 per every GL but having 5, 6 or 7 counters if not more in the coming days for SEE is just absolutely absurd.

    For a Galactic Legend, he definitely needs to be viable on both offense and defense. So far nearly all the counter teams can wipe him out in under 60seconds. Where as Luke, Rey and Kylo you have to work for it. SEE is by far the worst GL right now.
    An considering we all had to farm horrible characters that need reworks like Royal Guard and Krennic, that basically have no value in the game right now at all, just to get a horrible GL in return, is just very off putting.

    People are definitely going to avoid him an go after Luke, Rey or Kylo instead unless he has a lot more survivability, if not for himself but for his team. His leadership doesnt do basically anything for for whoever you run him with.

    But anyway, 1 or 2 F2P counters im fine with, but the amount that are popping up right now is just a big no for what is suppose to be a GL.

    There are only so many slightly lower grade toons to make counters out of. So having 1 or 2 for each is very unlikely if you want them to be unique to each one, and still have the GLs on "another level".

    But I'm not here for people to agree with me, nor do I know what the future plans are.

    I just see it as reasonable that certain GLs are possibly intended to be more geared for offense than defense.

    I would also add that its early and that I would bet that a few of those counters can be modded or team comp that can change those results.
  • Too many f2p counters for sure! This very dumb.

    Galactic Legends should at least hold their own on defence. Even with out Ultimate they should be able to have some defensive viability. Emperor should of been released as a legendary not Galactic Legend.

    I vote for big leadership buff.
  • Kyno
    26612 posts Moderator
    edited October 24
    Too many f2p counters for sure! This very dumb.

    Galactic Legends should at least hold their own on defence. Even with out Ultimate they should be able to have some defensive viability. Emperor should of been released as a legendary not Galactic Legend.

    I vote for big leadership buff.

    I would much prefer they would always win on offense than hold better on defense. (And dont risk timeouts, or be so subject to RNG)
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Sithlords_Inc
    123 posts Member
    edited October 24
    Kyno wrote: »
    Too many f2p counters for sure! This very dumb.

    Galactic Legends should at least hold their own on defence. Even with out Ultimate they should be able to have some defensive viability. Emperor should of been released as a legendary not Galactic Legend.

    I vote for big leadership buff.

    I would much prefer they would always win on offense than hold better on defense. (And dont risk timeouts, or be so subject to RNG)

    That wouldnt be bad tbh
  • scuba
    12607 posts Member
    And after/if CG caves and buffs the new GL, the forums will be on fire with cry's about 8 territories of GL's with no counters.
  • Once Snoke comes all will be fine
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