my continued biggest issue with SEE is his lack of raid damage. On Par or comparable would have SEE doing roughly 10%+ of phase 1,2,3 in CHR. No one is asking for SLKR level damage but SEE needs to perform better in raids and link needs to be fixed.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
I’m a more recent owner of ultimate see, but my main gripe about him is that he has more synergy + efficiency with wat only than a full sith team.
I don’t really think he’s underpowered, I mean I never ever use him with sith though; I did a few times and all they do is get nuked and/or allow other gls to gain their ult more quickly.
Do we think he is under powered because of the immense amount of reliable ftp counters for him?
I think more recent owners are generally happier as because it exceeds our expectation after all the negative talks, also there is more theorycraft on him done overtime so we know how to use it better. The players who rush to get him earlier were more disappointed because they were expecting better, and the sentiment carried over today. I agree SEE is a relatively weaker GL compared with other so I would still get it last if we I have a do-over. But it is hard to get SEE a buff without changing the balance since we now have 4 GLs to balance. It is much easier to buff SLKR when CG can easily buff him against gas cheese but not changing much on Rey.
Having for 4 GLs now, I would pursue SLKR, Rey, JML, SEE in that order if I get a do-over. So I am sympathetic on players who spent their resources to get SEE as their first GLs. But in my view, once you have all of them, SEE is a nice additions to the GL collection. Whether SEE receives a buff or not will just change how the GLs rank among themself. It is on par with other GLs now.
Yea I have rey and jml, rey is never used but jml kills slk in arena, and i just use see wat duo cheese to climb because it’s hilarious 2v5 is better than 5v5. I even just played a SEE team that had se + thrawn, the second I came out of fracture I just nuked the team.
It’s ridiculous, and yea unfortunately to make him effective with sith as opposed to wat 2 man team, they would probably have to rewrite the entire kit
my continued biggest issue with SEE is his lack of raid damage. On Par or comparable would have SEE doing roughly 10%+ of phase 1,2,3 in CHR. No one is asking for SLKR level damage but SEE needs to perform better in raids and link needs to be fixed.
At this point, after owning SEE for 3 months and using him daily... He's fine in Arena. Absolutely fine. He's actually GREAT for me in Arena, because 7/10 people in my shard have JML. So it's extremely easy to do the daily climb. If there weren't so many JMLs, my SEE would be rather bad. But...
Everywhere else in the game, he's useless or underpowered.
Sith raid? Useless.
Rancor raid? Useless
Assault Battles? Useless.
Mythics? Useless.
Galactic challenges? He's good for one of them only (SLKR is good for many of them).
Territory Battle? He's decent filler that helps someone that might be new to the game and don't already have a deep dark sider roster. But useless for veteran players.
GAC? Useless on defense (can be soloed). Decent for attacking if your opponent puts any Jedi on defense...Useless otherwise.
TW? Useless on defense. Decent for attacking JML, JKR, or non-meta teams like Ewoks.
Apparently, CG's definition of what makes a hero a "Galactic Legend" and worthy of the gold border, is simply their Arena performance.
Personally, Arena is my least favorite part of the game. It's a redundant daily chore. Had I known he's really only good for Arena, I would not have invested in him.
I'm getting SLKR next. I'll have him next week. He will be my last GL that I spend money on. After that, all GLs are going to be f2p farmed for me. Not getting tricked by CG twice.
Aside from Arena itself, SLKR is by far the better pick and wiser choice. And SLKR is still good in Arena. Even if not as good as SEE there. He's close. SLKR can do all the other areas of the game beautifully.
Once again. Thats rey with jedi.
If rey adds in the scoundrel bros (han and chewie) wat will be dead before tank tech.
Alternatively Rey with full resistance would crap all over SEE. JTR would stop all protection regain with the undispelable healblock.
If anything this just proves the point that SEE link is a flawed ability.
These numbers do not apply to arena viability, where as far as I know Rey is generally bad against SLKR and probably JML without using Jedi?
Looking at the last GAC seasons stats (specifically 99% of the teams, ignoring the outliers because that takes you from one and a half pages of teams to 83 pages of teams) and there were 77631 Reys on defense, of which none used Han and 13367 (17.2%) used JTR. If you can beat 82% of the standard defensive Rey teams with just SEE/Wat thats still a highly effective team to use. This may change as information on SEE/Wat being able to do this spreads of course.
Its also not just Rey/Jedi that this works on. I have beaten Rey/RH Bros/Han/Chewy with it, though of course its 50/50 on whether Wat or SEE gets shot at the start.
Looks like it beats the 'standard' (21546 out of the 77631 defensive teams used this lineup) Resistance defense team pretty easily. No reason it shouldnt beat everything else that doesnt bring JTR or Han and honestly thats great if there is something that can be done to stop this **** duo with Wat nonsense both using and against SEE.
In TW at a higher level Rey normally isn't set without JTR. Its to help stomp the vader counter.
In every single GAC I've been in that the opponent has set Rey... its ALWAYS with JTR as an assist.
This SEE duo is basicly arena only. Helpful, but for where it matters most (TW/GAC) only marginally useful.
That’s not true. The JTR version can’t be autoed, but I beat Rey/Heros/JTR+1 100% reliably. Just because some people who doesn’t know how to mod SEE or play the battle losing to JTR version only shows the battle can’t be autoed like some of the other combo. Lol
Let’s not throw around the “don’t know how to mod” argument. You said yourself you don’t need god tier mods to be effective. You and Shiryu even have the same sets he just favored damage over health on his primaries. I do appreciate and understand the nuances of different primaries, but his roster shows he’s more that adept at modding.
Mods are relative. Can a poorly modded SEE/Wat lose to greatly modded Rey/JTR? Of course it can. My experience is just that the mods necessary for SEE to beat Rey consistently is more easily available than the mods necessary for Rey teams to defend against SEE consistently. They both can be modded better, but it is easier to do it on SEE than Rey. My comments were not to look down anyone, was more about to comment on the relative ease of modding SEE.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
SEE leads all GLs in percentage of unlocks that wind up leading Rank 1 and Top 10 arena teams, so he is definitely utter useless trash
No, JML actually leads according to swgoh gg
False
30 % of unlocked JML in top 1
52% of unlocked JML in top 10
14% of unlocked SEE in top 1
24% of unlocked SEE in top 10
That is in the squad, not the lead.
@littleMAC77 JML and REY are mostly used under JKR and still good teams for offense even if Gls are not in leader slot, on the other hand though SEE is used mostly in leader slot he performs worse than JML in non-leader slot, but i think that's the topic of the other thread.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
My biggest issue with him is that see+ wat is the team, and not see + sith. It’s not even like see +sith and wat as a 5th.
I understand why other people are angry tho, because yea he sucks in raids but luckily he’s my 3rd gl
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
Kylo is the most useful in GAC, he doesn't even need Wat to crush SEE+ Best of the Best Siths
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
I’m a more recent owner of ultimate see, but my main gripe about him is that he has more synergy + efficiency with wat only than a full sith team.
I don’t really think he’s underpowered, I mean I never ever use him with sith though; I did a few times and all they do is get nuked and/or allow other gls to gain their ult more quickly.
Do we think he is under powered because of the immense amount of reliable ftp counters for him?
I think more recent owners are generally happier as because it exceeds our expectation after all the negative talks, also there is more theorycraft on him done overtime so we know how to use it better. The players who rush to get him earlier were more disappointed because they were expecting better, and the sentiment carried over today. I agree SEE is a relatively weaker GL compared with other so I would still get it last if we I have a do-over. But it is hard to get SEE a buff without changing the balance since we now have 4 GLs to balance. It is much easier to buff SLKR when CG can easily buff him against gas cheese but not changing much on Rey.
Having for 4 GLs now, I would pursue SLKR, Rey, JML, SEE in that order if I get a do-over. So I am sympathetic on players who spent their resources to get SEE as their first GLs. But in my view, once you have all of them, SEE is a nice additions to the GL collection. Whether SEE receives a buff or not will just change how the GLs rank among themself. It is on par with other GLs now.
Ok if it's too hard to buff see and maintain balance, then they can just refund the gear for his requirements since they lied about how good he would be.
Problem solved.
Those that still think he's good can reapply it to him.
Those that don't can apply the gear to an actual gl.
I think refund the gear is the best way. I will use these to get SLKR instead of the useless SEE.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
I’m a more recent owner of ultimate see, but my main gripe about him is that he has more synergy + efficiency with wat only than a full sith team.
I don’t really think he’s underpowered, I mean I never ever use him with sith though; I did a few times and all they do is get nuked and/or allow other gls to gain their ult more quickly.
Do we think he is under powered because of the immense amount of reliable ftp counters for him?
I think more recent owners are generally happier as because it exceeds our expectation after all the negative talks, also there is more theorycraft on him done overtime so we know how to use it better. The players who rush to get him earlier were more disappointed because they were expecting better, and the sentiment carried over today. I agree SEE is a relatively weaker GL compared with other so I would still get it last if we I have a do-over. But it is hard to get SEE a buff without changing the balance since we now have 4 GLs to balance. It is much easier to buff SLKR when CG can easily buff him against gas cheese but not changing much on Rey.
Having for 4 GLs now, I would pursue SLKR, Rey, JML, SEE in that order if I get a do-over. So I am sympathetic on players who spent their resources to get SEE as their first GLs. But in my view, once you have all of them, SEE is a nice additions to the GL collection. Whether SEE receives a buff or not will just change how the GLs rank among themself. It is on par with other GLs now.
Ok if it's too hard to buff see and maintain balance, then they can just refund the gear for his requirements since they lied about how good he would be.
Problem solved.
Those that still think he's good can reapply it to him.
Those that don't can apply the gear to an actual gl.
I think refund the gear is the best way. I will use these to get SLKR instead of the useless SEE.
Agree.
When SEE was announced, this decided me to start the ascension to unlock a GL but at this moment, it was impossible to guess his only usability was beat JML.
Maybe it's okay for someone who already have 2 or 3 GL but for the others, SEE is way more less useful.
Refund gear could allow people in this situation to go after an other GL, more useful.
This would be fair.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
Rey got a buff? What was it?
If I remember correctly they made her immune to status effect (including % health reduction) while in ult.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
My biggest issue with him is that see+ wat is the team, and not see + sith. It’s not even like see +sith and wat as a 5th.
I understand why other people are angry tho, because yea he sucks in raids but luckily he’s my 3rd gl
He is my first so I get the pain of him being crap everywhere else. And I get that issue, just trying to be positive lol
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
Kylo is the most useful in GAC, he doesn't even need Wat to crush SEE+ Best of the Best Siths
SEE isn’t to be used on Def, Kylo can be countered fairly simply to DR, bsf, thrawn, SEt and malak with only SET dying (maybe).
SEE + wat will get 60+ banners against a GL Rey, SEE and Jml, throw in SET to make it 100% sure instead of 95%. He is an offence beast, you can still use him to pick up 60+ banners on pad teams if he isn’t on Def
Once again. Thats rey with jedi.
If rey adds in the scoundrel bros (han and chewie) wat will be dead before tank tech.
Alternatively Rey with full resistance would crap all over SEE. JTR would stop all protection regain with the undispelable healblock.
If anything this just proves the point that SEE link is a flawed ability.
These numbers do not apply to arena viability, where as far as I know Rey is generally bad against SLKR and probably JML without using Jedi?
Looking at the last GAC seasons stats (specifically 99% of the teams, ignoring the outliers because that takes you from one and a half pages of teams to 83 pages of teams) and there were 77631 Reys on defense, of which none used Han and 13367 (17.2%) used JTR. If you can beat 82% of the standard defensive Rey teams with just SEE/Wat thats still a highly effective team to use. This may change as information on SEE/Wat being able to do this spreads of course.
Its also not just Rey/Jedi that this works on. I have beaten Rey/RH Bros/Han/Chewy with it, though of course its 50/50 on whether Wat or SEE gets shot at the start.
Looks like it beats the 'standard' (21546 out of the 77631 defensive teams used this lineup) Resistance defense team pretty easily. No reason it shouldnt beat everything else that doesnt bring JTR or Han and honestly thats great if there is something that can be done to stop this **** duo with Wat nonsense both using and against SEE.
In TW at a higher level Rey normally isn't set without JTR. Its to help stomp the vader counter.
In every single GAC I've been in that the opponent has set Rey... its ALWAYS with JTR as an assist.
This SEE duo is basicly arena only. Helpful, but for where it matters most (TW/GAC) only marginally useful.
That’s not true. The JTR version can’t be autoed, but I beat Rey/Heros/JTR+1 100% reliably. Just because some people who doesn’t know how to mod SEE or play the battle losing to JTR version only shows the battle can’t be autoed like some of the other combo. Lol
Let’s not throw around the “don’t know how to mod” argument. You said yourself you don’t need god tier mods to be effective. You and Shiryu even have the same sets he just favored damage over health on his primaries. I do appreciate and understand the nuances of different primaries, but his roster shows he’s more that adept at modding.
Mods are relative. Can a poorly modded SEE/Wat lose to greatly modded Rey/JTR? Of course it can. My experience is just that the mods necessary for SEE to beat Rey consistently is more easily available than the mods necessary for Rey teams to defend against SEE consistently. They both can be modded better, but it is easier to do it on SEE than Rey. My comments were not to look down anyone, was more about to comment on the relative ease of modding SEE.
I hear yah. I appreciate you clarifying and I agree mods are relative. For me, more important that simply having good modding is having a logic that applies to how you counter which ever team you’re facing at that moment in time. Not related to you since you clarified, but my issue with the “can’t mod argument” is that it’s low hanging fruit. In most cases it shuts down discussion and in regards to SEE comes off as implying “he’s good but only if you mod him a certain way” a logic no one would apply to any other GL. Again speaking in general terms not in response to you.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
Rey got a buff? What was it?
If I remember correctly they made her immune to status effect (including % health reduction) while in ult.
Show your work because afaik this was always the case.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
Rey got a buff? What was it?
Rey received a slight buff to the ult damage, iirc. Certainly nothing even remotely close to what SLK got.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Except the SLK buff came 2 months after release, well after a lot of F2P committed to Rey! This was after the community knew SLK could solo HSTR, but Rey was obviously the stronger PVP toon in GAC and squad arena, making the two balanced.
CG then buffed SLK to the moon, making him straight up better than Rey until JKL evened things out again. I will never forgive CG for how they handled the SLK/Rey meta.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
Kylo is the most useful in GAC, he doesn't even need Wat to crush SEE+ Best of the Best Siths
SEE isn’t to be used on Def, Kylo can be countered fairly simply to DR, bsf, thrawn, SEt and malak with only SET dying (maybe).
SEE + wat will get 60+ banners against a GL Rey, SEE and Jml, throw in SET to make it 100% sure instead of 95%. He is an offence beast, you can still use him to pick up 60+ banners on pad teams if he isn’t on Def
What's the strategy to beating Rey with just SEE and Wat?
Sometimes I even lose to Rey with SEE+Wat+Thrawn+Traya+SET. That's with fracture and isolate on Rey. I don't lose often with that combo but it does happen if I'm fighting a well modded Rey that hits hard. I just can't imagine doing it with just SEE+Wat and no one else unless I'm fighting a scrub Rey.
I have to remember I'm on a 5 year old shard so people have really great mods on their Reys.
If you aren't going to fix see, then please refund all the gear for the too s I geared up for this garbage and the event tickets. Feel free to inactivate see as well.
That way I can put those resources into a GL that is actually on par with the others.
Either way, the community deserves an answer now (not in several months).
Indeed, if CG has no problem with SEE like it is, refund gear and zeta looks like a good solution.
If it work as intended, so CG don't have to be afraid lot's of people choose this option.
Moreover, it was the last time i geared requirements for a GL before multiple tests of it.
This mechanic of announcing requirements weeks after weeks is a trap.
That’s obviously never gonna be an option 😂
Just use him with Wat, beats Rey, SEE and JML without bast lead
It is what is warranted. They lied and said he was equal. He clearly isn't.
But why be afraid of that. If he's so great you can just re gear everything and reunlock him.
If I'm wrong no one but me should want to use those resources elsewhere.
And I'll elaborate on the timeline. They announced the first set of requirements for jml and see back in September. At that time they promised they would be on par.
His kit wasn't revealed until a month later after you pretty much had to have started gearing the requirements. Even then things like him hitting like a wet noodle don't become apparent until you actually unlock him.
So they either need to fix this or refund the gear. And explain why their on par statement isn't a lie.
I think CG said the new GLs would be of comparable or similar power - quite vague and plenty of wiggle room there. JML is absolutely killing it in my arena shard and I'd imagine that's good enough for some people especially if they already have Kylo.
What is unsatisfactory is A) the lack of clear communication from CG - that's why this thread has just run and run and whether JML or SEE, surely they should have more utility than squad arena and their respective TBs.
Comparable or on par. That is semantics. See isn't even close to a similar power level.
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
Kylo is the most useful in GAC, he doesn't even need Wat to crush SEE+ Best of the Best Siths
SEE isn’t to be used on Def, Kylo can be countered fairly simply to DR, bsf, thrawn, SEt and malak with only SET dying (maybe).
SEE + wat will get 60+ banners against a GL Rey, SEE and Jml, throw in SET to make it 100% sure instead of 95%. He is an offence beast, you can still use him to pick up 60+ banners on pad teams if he isn’t on Def
What's the strategy to beating Rey with just SEE and Wat?
Sometimes I even lose to Rey with SEE+Wat+Thrawn+Traya+SET. That's with fracture and isolate on Rey. I don't lose often with that combo but it does happen if I'm fighting a well modded Rey that hits hard. I just can't imagine doing it with just SEE+Wat and no one else unless I'm fighting a scrub Rey.
I have to remember I'm on a 5 year old shard so people have really great mods on their Reys.
Try modding SEE with a speed set, health set and health% primaries. look at the mods on sloweagle's MAW guild and you see quite a few at 140-150k health.
Aka mod the devastating attacker like a speedy tank so he can eat WW and Ult from Rey.
Rey's modded for Off% prob make this harder or maybe that's why they mod for that much health.
it will be funny to see when CG release another generation of new Gls, non-jedi Gls, See will suck, and SLKR will become even more popular
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
Rey got a buff? What was it?
Rey received a slight buff to the ult damage, iirc.
Replies
Yea I have rey and jml, rey is never used but jml kills slk in arena, and i just use see wat duo cheese to climb because it’s hilarious 2v5 is better than 5v5. I even just played a SEE team that had se + thrawn, the second I came out of fracture I just nuked the team.
It’s ridiculous, and yea unfortunately to make him effective with sith as opposed to wat 2 man team, they would probably have to rewrite the entire kit
At this point, after owning SEE for 3 months and using him daily... He's fine in Arena. Absolutely fine. He's actually GREAT for me in Arena, because 7/10 people in my shard have JML. So it's extremely easy to do the daily climb. If there weren't so many JMLs, my SEE would be rather bad. But...
Everywhere else in the game, he's useless or underpowered.
Sith raid? Useless.
Rancor raid? Useless
Assault Battles? Useless.
Mythics? Useless.
Galactic challenges? He's good for one of them only (SLKR is good for many of them).
Territory Battle? He's decent filler that helps someone that might be new to the game and don't already have a deep dark sider roster. But useless for veteran players.
GAC? Useless on defense (can be soloed). Decent for attacking if your opponent puts any Jedi on defense...Useless otherwise.
TW? Useless on defense. Decent for attacking JML, JKR, or non-meta teams like Ewoks.
Apparently, CG's definition of what makes a hero a "Galactic Legend" and worthy of the gold border, is simply their Arena performance.
Personally, Arena is my least favorite part of the game. It's a redundant daily chore. Had I known he's really only good for Arena, I would not have invested in him.
I'm getting SLKR next. I'll have him next week. He will be my last GL that I spend money on. After that, all GLs are going to be f2p farmed for me. Not getting tricked by CG twice.
Aside from Arena itself, SLKR is by far the better pick and wiser choice. And SLKR is still good in Arena. Even if not as good as SEE there. He's close. SLKR can do all the other areas of the game beautifully.
Mods are relative. Can a poorly modded SEE/Wat lose to greatly modded Rey/JTR? Of course it can. My experience is just that the mods necessary for SEE to beat Rey consistently is more easily available than the mods necessary for Rey teams to defend against SEE consistently. They both can be modded better, but it is easier to do it on SEE than Rey. My comments were not to look down anyone, was more about to comment on the relative ease of modding SEE.
False
SEE + Wat gets you good banners against SEE, Rey and Jml, probably the most useful GL in GAC to be fair based on only needing to send in them 2.
30 % of unlocked JML in top 1
52% of unlocked JML in top 10
14% of unlocked SEE in top 1
24% of unlocked SEE in top 10
That is in the squad, not the lead.
My biggest issue with him is that see+ wat is the team, and not see + sith. It’s not even like see +sith and wat as a 5th.
I understand why other people are angry tho, because yea he sucks in raids but luckily he’s my 3rd gl
Kylo is the most useful in GAC, he doesn't even need Wat to crush SEE+ Best of the Best Siths
Yep he's definitely more useful
Agree.
When SEE was announced, this decided me to start the ascension to unlock a GL but at this moment, it was impossible to guess his only usability was beat JML.
Maybe it's okay for someone who already have 2 or 3 GL but for the others, SEE is way more less useful.
Refund gear could allow people in this situation to go after an other GL, more useful.
This would be fair.
And people will rush towards one of the new GLs just to complain about how it's overall inferior to the other GL(s) when the first play testings happen (with ults in play). Happened with Rey/SLKR, happened with SEE/JML, gonna happen with the next two. This community will never learn.
Rey and SLKR got buffs actually, SLKR got more, but jML and SEE just received ignorance from CG side
Rey got a buff? What was it?
If I remember correctly they made her immune to status effect (including % health reduction) while in ult.
He is my first so I get the pain of him being crap everywhere else. And I get that issue, just trying to be positive lol
SEE isn’t to be used on Def, Kylo can be countered fairly simply to DR, bsf, thrawn, SEt and malak with only SET dying (maybe).
SEE + wat will get 60+ banners against a GL Rey, SEE and Jml, throw in SET to make it 100% sure instead of 95%. He is an offence beast, you can still use him to pick up 60+ banners on pad teams if he isn’t on Def
I hear yah. I appreciate you clarifying and I agree mods are relative. For me, more important that simply having good modding is having a logic that applies to how you counter which ever team you’re facing at that moment in time. Not related to you since you clarified, but my issue with the “can’t mod argument” is that it’s low hanging fruit. In most cases it shuts down discussion and in regards to SEE comes off as implying “he’s good but only if you mod him a certain way” a logic no one would apply to any other GL. Again speaking in general terms not in response to you.
Show your work because afaik this was always the case.
Rey received a slight buff to the ult damage, iirc. Certainly nothing even remotely close to what SLK got.
Except the SLK buff came 2 months after release, well after a lot of F2P committed to Rey! This was after the community knew SLK could solo HSTR, but Rey was obviously the stronger PVP toon in GAC and squad arena, making the two balanced.
CG then buffed SLK to the moon, making him straight up better than Rey until JKL evened things out again. I will never forgive CG for how they handled the SLK/Rey meta.
What's the strategy to beating Rey with just SEE and Wat?
Sometimes I even lose to Rey with SEE+Wat+Thrawn+Traya+SET. That's with fracture and isolate on Rey. I don't lose often with that combo but it does happen if I'm fighting a well modded Rey that hits hard. I just can't imagine doing it with just SEE+Wat and no one else unless I'm fighting a scrub Rey.
I have to remember I'm on a 5 year old shard so people have really great mods on their Reys.
Try modding SEE with a speed set, health set and health% primaries. look at the mods on sloweagle's MAW guild and you see quite a few at 140-150k health.
Aka mod the devastating attacker like a speedy tank so he can eat WW and Ult from Rey.
Rey's modded for Off% prob make this harder or maybe that's why they mod for that much health.
Don't remember this either.