So now that SEE can beat every other GL (age two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Still useless for any PvE.
Still useless on GAC/TW defense.
It's cool that he is finally a devastating attacker thanks to some toons that don't have any synergy with him at all. I guess. Still wish all the relics needed for the other sith toons weren't a total waste.
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (age two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Still useless for any PvE.
Still useless on GAC/TW defense.
It's cool that he is finally a devastating attacker thanks to some toons that don't have any synergy with him at all. I guess. Still wish all the relics needed for the other sith toons weren't a total waste.
Yes because our devastating attacker doing 20k damage is the pinnacle of damage dealers.
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (and two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (and two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
Or you know, works well with a Sith team? No need to be a smart ****, why even stay on this page?
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (and two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
Or you know, works well with a Sith team? No need to be a smart ****, why even stay on this page?
So go ahead and add “works well with his faction like SLK with FO” in addition to the “devastating attacker” complaint too? 😂
Some news for you: every GL has their weaknesses. Rey with Resistance is worthless in squad arena. A huge amount of JMLs don’t taunt on their own accord, or have an ult for that matter, in squad arena. Even the golden child, SLK, still needs Sith/Wat/Thrawn/Han to beat everything else.
Armorer is awesome for SEE in Arena and GAC offensively, it certainly fixes the issue with fights with SLKR.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Basicly this. He works in arena with clunky teams.
You won't use this armorer team in GAC or TW.
SEE is useless in EVERY raid.
SEE is hot garbage in pve content.
Why wouldn't you use the armorer team in GAC or TW? Or the SEE + Wat duo in either?
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Armorer is awesome for SEE in Arena and GAC offensively, it certainly fixes the issue with fights with SLKR.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Basicly this. He works in arena with clunky teams.
You won't use this armorer team in GAC or TW.
SEE is useless in EVERY raid.
SEE is hot garbage in pve content.
Why wouldn't you use the armorer team in GAC or TW? Or the SEE + Wat duo in either?
Agreed. This is the cheapest use of characters to counter other GL squads. If I had SEE, I would def make use of this trick before anything else would potentially change in his kit.
I don’t believe this was the intended use for SEE, but it works.
Armorer is awesome for SEE in Arena and GAC offensively, it certainly fixes the issue with fights with SLKR.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Against slkr He’s actually awful in GAC, worst case 4 people die, best case 2 people die. Your at 54 banners or 48 banners after SLKR. There are better counters than SEE.
The idea that his kit is okay because he and darth wat nuke everything but slk is a joke; a 2 man cheese team should never perform better than a 5 man team.
Armorer is awesome for SEE in Arena and GAC offensively, it certainly fixes the issue with fights with SLKR.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Against slkr He’s actually awful in GAC, worst case 4 people die, best case 2 people die. Your at 54 banners or 48 banners after SLKR. There are better counters than SEE.
...which you would then have for other teams. And against Rey or JML, it's SEE + Wat for the win.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
The idea that his kit is okay because he and darth wat nuke everything but slk is a joke; a 2 man cheese team should never perform better than a 5 man team.
Not saying you are commenting about my post, I was simply compelled to reply to this point.
I do not think his kit is ok. I think the 2 man cheese proves that there are fundamental problems with him/the game. The duo does work currently and my comment was more about how this should absolutely be exploited while it exists.
Armorer is awesome for SEE in Arena and GAC offensively, it certainly fixes the issue with fights with SLKR.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Against slkr He’s actually awful in GAC, worst case 4 people die, best case 2 people die. Your at 54 banners or 48 banners after SLKR. There are better counters than SEE.
Use SEE against something else. And use your SLKR counter here. For GAC offensively, SEE is fine. Raids.. not okay
Ok guys, so armourer now means SEE can win reliably on offence against any team. Awesome - that was one of his biggest weaknesses, so that does genuinely make him better, insofar as it gives him something which all the other GLs have had all along.
Regardless though, he is still the worst GL defensively, meaning you drop more in arena, he isn’t usable on defence in GAC and has really no PvE use - that does mean that he is still at the bottom of the pile for all the GLs in every area of the game, so is still by some margin the worst GL in the game overall, and so either needs a buff, or special consideration to make him more viable in future (e.g. making the next set of GLs vulnerable against him). Is that really so hard to understand?
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (and two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
Or you know, works well with a Sith team? No need to be a smart ****, why even stay on this page?
So go ahead and add “works well with his faction like SLK with FO” in addition to the “devastating attacker” complaint too? 😂
Some news for you: every GL has their weaknesses. Rey with Resistance is worthless in squad arena. A huge amount of JMLs don’t taunt on their own accord, or have an ult for that matter, in squad arena. Even the golden child, SLK, still needs Sith/Wat/Thrawn/Han to beat everything else.
SEE's crap synergy with Sith was one of the original criticisms of SEE. And most of the players here with longer explanations of SEE's kit early on have supported a tweak for JML's lead situation. That you and @Nikoms565 think this is a "gotcha" indicates that you haven't read the basics and are still just here to troll.
SEE is the biggest winner from armorer because SEE needed help the most, and armorer's kit arguably hurts SLKR the most. But any strong toon can use armorer to be really strong, probably including JKL vs SLKR.
So now that SEE can beat every other GL (and two of them with only 1 other character on his team), this thread has devolved into complaining about "style points"?
JML running under JKR with Wat and Rey running with Jedi say "HI!".
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
Or you know, works well with a Sith team? No need to be a smart ****, why even stay on this page?
So go ahead and add “works well with his faction like SLK with FO” in addition to the “devastating attacker” complaint too? 😂
Some news for you: every GL has their weaknesses. Rey with Resistance is worthless in squad arena. A huge amount of JMLs don’t taunt on their own accord, or have an ult for that matter, in squad arena. Even the golden child, SLK, still needs Sith/Wat/Thrawn/Han to beat everything else.
SEE's crap synergy with Sith was one of the original criticisms of SEE. And most of the players here with longer explanations of SEE's kit early on have supported a tweak for JML's lead situation. That you and @Nikoms565 think this is a "gotcha" indicates that you haven't read the basics and are still just here to troll.
SEE is the biggest winner from armorer because SEE needed help the most, and armorer's kit arguably hurts SLKR the most. But any strong toon can use armorer to be really strong, probably including JKL vs SLKR.
Like that id-iot himself pointed out in his post, the two biggest complaints were his **** poor damage (against ds especially) and his non existent synergy with his own faction. Sure Res might not be great with Rey but her lead benefits LS at large and SLKR does the same with DS toons. Wouldn’t be bad if their leads were properly faction based LIKE SEE and JML but they aren’t which make the specific leads worse by comparison. So yeah, fix his damage and synergy is what we want not a cheap gimmick like is set up with SEE and Arm. In fact, fix those things on SEE and make it that the armour doesn’t work for SEE and I’d be happier.
I think its pretty clear that this new Armorer comp isnt actually SEE doing anything new. Theres no combination that man handles SLKR like this with any other combination of characters in the game using SEE. Its entirely the result of the Armorer and the crit immunity/prot regen she provides. Armorer isnt exactly unique to SEE, but certainly seems to fit well given crit immunity is more effective against SLKR and GAS than pretty much any other characters in the game. Makes sense why they didnt allow the cant crit while Linked for GLs. SEE would have been curb stomping everything in sight on offense since day 1.
@Hermitthedruid Do you honestly think a marquee character released over 3 months after a GL that makes them stupidly powerful in niche cases where they were struggling fixes the actual issues brought up in the thread? Yes I am aware many of them are blown out of proportion, and currently we are closer to any actual balance between SEE and the others than we have been so far imo. He is situationally good/bad on defense in arena depending on the shard (pretty garbage in mine, pretty good in yours from memory). Still not a great choice for many GAC/TW matchups on defense. Seems like the strongest offensive team in the game now I guess given his undermanning of all the GLs. He now has his area that he excels in over the others to make up for his lackluster performance in areas they excel in.
This was a terrible method to fix SEE though if this is the only thing coming. This doesnt fix him. This doesnt change him. It doesnt address any of the actual concerns in the thread except for his overall value, which is admittedly a good change. I would absolutely love to see Armorer changed to be gated to LS personally, so that the actual problems in his kit and design can be addressed. As is, its very very hard to justify anything that will improve his performance or functionality.
@CG_Doja_Fett We have seen it stated previously (linked recently in the thread) by CG regarding the GAS/Echo duo against SLKR that you do not approve of teams being better while undermanning or it being a very viable and frequently used team composition. Has this changed, and if so why? I assume you read the thread even though you dont actually interact with us for some reason. Tagging @Kyno to see if you can please get us an answer on this topic since Doja probably wont reply? We now have a situation where SEE/Wat can duo nearly every Rey/JML/SEE comp reliably, can SEE/Armorer/Pre-Taunt SLKR likely reliably, and on defense can be beaten by SEE/Wat, Rey/Wat, SLKR solo, reliably.
wow, calling people with a different opinion trolls and id-iots, I cant take you guys seriously
I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with me, so long as they read my actual points and disagreed with them as opposed to using logical fallacies in order to--yes--troll. If you read more carefully and actually took other people seriously in the first place maybe you would've realized this. The crew that comes in to try to troll and hamper SEE owners from communicating with CG continue to show that they're not serious.
Most of the points about SEE are in the early pages of this thread or in my signature, and haven't changed. Wat and Armorer are workarounds that prove some of these points, although it is also worth mentioning that they help SEE in arena (similar to how wat helps JML in arena so that he can permataunt under another lead).
I disagree, I read the word troll pretty often from see owners who want to have a buff.
if someone comes up with data like from gac people point out how bad he is in raids.
this is my observation in this thread.
emotional reactions are on both sides, but I find it hard to have a factual discussion with quite a few see pro buff people
Meta report top 1, see surpassed rey, top 10 got to same percentage. Seems see is as good as rey in arena meta.
If only there were other parts of the game 🤔
You mean like GAC, where SEE +Wat can take down Rey or JML for strong banner count? Or TW where that team can do the same or use the armorer team and save Wat?
Or are you only talking about raids? And let's be honest, no GL does "well" in HSith except SLKR.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@Decado not quoting, but no real update, he was still pushing through data and information to the team the last time we spoke.
It seems that some (just a few from earlier on) of the points and even videos are either countered with data they have, or never panned out since then, or are kind of "ok" as they require high level of investment (I didnt get details but this was about one of the F2P counter videos) and was shown to only be used against a lower relic SEE team.
This is not directly from his most recent comment and push, and from what we talked about he is still talking things over.
Replies
Still useless for any PvE.
Still useless on GAC/TW defense.
It's cool that he is finally a devastating attacker thanks to some toons that don't have any synergy with him at all. I guess. Still wish all the relics needed for the other sith toons weren't a total waste.
Yes because our devastating attacker doing 20k damage is the pinnacle of damage dealers.
Hes a tank / support that has the wrong tag.
Ikr?! Some of them are delusional, they won’t be satisfied until SEE is equal in every way to SLK’s damage, as if SLK’s damage is somehow ok from the perspective of many LS GL owners. 😂
Or you know, works well with a Sith team? No need to be a smart ****, why even stay on this page?
SEE only does damage vs Jedi. everything else he does less then 3 year old toons.
Edit: SLKR, JML, Rey can also use armorer and do the same thing, but better and faster.
However I won't be happy with SEE until he is viable in all areas of the game, like the other 3 GLs.
His design is clunky and it would be nice if his he did something with the faction he leads.
Basicly this. He works in arena with clunky teams.
You won't use this armorer team in GAC or TW.
SEE is useless in EVERY raid.
SEE is hot garbage in pve content.
So go ahead and add “works well with his faction like SLK with FO” in addition to the “devastating attacker” complaint too? 😂
Some news for you: every GL has their weaknesses. Rey with Resistance is worthless in squad arena. A huge amount of JMLs don’t taunt on their own accord, or have an ult for that matter, in squad arena. Even the golden child, SLK, still needs Sith/Wat/Thrawn/Han to beat everything else.
Why wouldn't you use the armorer team in GAC or TW? Or the SEE + Wat duo in either?
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Lets talk about raids, where is raid see performs well in?
As to PVE content, most of it won't allow a light side character into a dark side squad.
Agreed. This is the cheapest use of characters to counter other GL squads. If I had SEE, I would def make use of this trick before anything else would potentially change in his kit.
I don’t believe this was the intended use for SEE, but it works.
Against slkr He’s actually awful in GAC, worst case 4 people die, best case 2 people die. Your at 54 banners or 48 banners after SLKR. There are better counters than SEE.
...which you would then have for other teams. And against Rey or JML, it's SEE + Wat for the win.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Not saying you are commenting about my post, I was simply compelled to reply to this point.
I do not think his kit is ok. I think the 2 man cheese proves that there are fundamental problems with him/the game. The duo does work currently and my comment was more about how this should absolutely be exploited while it exists.
Use SEE against something else. And use your SLKR counter here. For GAC offensively, SEE is fine. Raids.. not okay
Regardless though, he is still the worst GL defensively, meaning you drop more in arena, he isn’t usable on defence in GAC and has really no PvE use - that does mean that he is still at the bottom of the pile for all the GLs in every area of the game, so is still by some margin the worst GL in the game overall, and so either needs a buff, or special consideration to make him more viable in future (e.g. making the next set of GLs vulnerable against him). Is that really so hard to understand?
SEE's crap synergy with Sith was one of the original criticisms of SEE. And most of the players here with longer explanations of SEE's kit early on have supported a tweak for JML's lead situation. That you and @Nikoms565 think this is a "gotcha" indicates that you haven't read the basics and are still just here to troll.
SEE is the biggest winner from armorer because SEE needed help the most, and armorer's kit arguably hurts SLKR the most. But any strong toon can use armorer to be really strong, probably including JKL vs SLKR.
Like that id-iot himself pointed out in his post, the two biggest complaints were his **** poor damage (against ds especially) and his non existent synergy with his own faction. Sure Res might not be great with Rey but her lead benefits LS at large and SLKR does the same with DS toons. Wouldn’t be bad if their leads were properly faction based LIKE SEE and JML but they aren’t which make the specific leads worse by comparison. So yeah, fix his damage and synergy is what we want not a cheap gimmick like is set up with SEE and Arm. In fact, fix those things on SEE and make it that the armour doesn’t work for SEE and I’d be happier.
No different than calling us who aren’t blown away by the cheap strategy instead of an actual fix to SEE delusional... don’t take that serious either.
@Hermitthedruid Do you honestly think a marquee character released over 3 months after a GL that makes them stupidly powerful in niche cases where they were struggling fixes the actual issues brought up in the thread? Yes I am aware many of them are blown out of proportion, and currently we are closer to any actual balance between SEE and the others than we have been so far imo. He is situationally good/bad on defense in arena depending on the shard (pretty garbage in mine, pretty good in yours from memory). Still not a great choice for many GAC/TW matchups on defense. Seems like the strongest offensive team in the game now I guess given his undermanning of all the GLs. He now has his area that he excels in over the others to make up for his lackluster performance in areas they excel in.
This was a terrible method to fix SEE though if this is the only thing coming. This doesnt fix him. This doesnt change him. It doesnt address any of the actual concerns in the thread except for his overall value, which is admittedly a good change. I would absolutely love to see Armorer changed to be gated to LS personally, so that the actual problems in his kit and design can be addressed. As is, its very very hard to justify anything that will improve his performance or functionality.
@CG_Doja_Fett We have seen it stated previously (linked recently in the thread) by CG regarding the GAS/Echo duo against SLKR that you do not approve of teams being better while undermanning or it being a very viable and frequently used team composition. Has this changed, and if so why? I assume you read the thread even though you dont actually interact with us for some reason. Tagging @Kyno to see if you can please get us an answer on this topic since Doja probably wont reply? We now have a situation where SEE/Wat can duo nearly every Rey/JML/SEE comp reliably, can SEE/Armorer/Pre-Taunt SLKR likely reliably, and on defense can be beaten by SEE/Wat, Rey/Wat, SLKR solo, reliably.
I disagree, I read the word troll pretty often from see owners who want to have a buff.
if someone comes up with data like from gac people point out how bad he is in raids.
this is my observation in this thread.
emotional reactions are on both sides, but I find it hard to have a factual discussion with quite a few see pro buff people
If only there were other parts of the game 🤔
You mean like GAC, where SEE +Wat can take down Rey or JML for strong banner count? Or TW where that team can do the same or use the armorer team and save Wat?
Or are you only talking about raids? And let's be honest, no GL does "well" in HSith except SLKR.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
It seems that some (just a few from earlier on) of the points and even videos are either countered with data they have, or never panned out since then, or are kind of "ok" as they require high level of investment (I didnt get details but this was about one of the F2P counter videos) and was shown to only be used against a lower relic SEE team.
This is not directly from his most recent comment and push, and from what we talked about he is still talking things over.