Does anyone know how the AI plays between Wat and SEE - namely which tech it picks for SEE?
I believe Wats tech order is Tank Tech: Tank - Highest combined health/prot > Other - highest combined health/prot > Medpac - lowest combined health/prot > Weapons > fastest attacker. If its just SEE/Wat youll get tank tech, if you have a full team itll be weapons assuming Wat survives long enough.
This is not correct. He does seem to prioritize tank tech first, but he usually puts it on tanks before SEE. Most of my matches against SEE, he puts tank tech on Malak to open.
As I said, Tank tech is tank highest combined health/prot, or if lacking a tank, the highest combined health/prot character on the team.
And as I said, when using only SEE/Wat, as in only two characters, Wats ai will put tank tech on SEE. Or, when using a full team, as in 5 characters, Wat will prioritise tank tech to a tank, or the healthiest non tank if you dont have one, then medpac, then weapons tech which is usually what SEE will get as you almost always have a tank in the lineup.
Look, I think the case for some huge buff is probably overstated, but I also think a retouch is appropriate. The obvious thing to do is to rework one of SEE’s completely useless abilities into something which is good, but not insane, and I think the right way of doing this is by adjusting his mastery stacking to be SEE gains 10% of his CURRENT mastery every time a decieved/linked enemy etc...
This would give him some Raid viability, as he would then be able to meaningfully buff the vader-type raid squads, without being insane. It would also mean that he would ‘feel’ cooler as his damage would ramp up quite a bit faster in the late-game.
So with the armorer we can see that crit immunity stops SEE from being slaughtered by SLKR. I'd suggest adding a group crit immunity buff to his kits and unspellable crit immunity on himself after transformed.
His link issue and extreme low damage vs. dark side issue still need to be addressed though.
Does anyone know how the AI plays between Wat and SEE - namely which tech it picks for SEE?
I believe Wats tech order is Tank Tech: Tank - Highest combined health/prot > Other - highest combined health/prot > Medpac - lowest combined health/prot > Weapons > fastest attacker. If its just SEE/Wat youll get tank tech, if you have a full team itll be weapons assuming Wat survives long enough.
Well i actually tested it. And you are correct about Medpac and partially correct about tank Tech. If there isnt a tank present - Wat uses Tank Tech over Medpac, and puts it at random. I mean there is no "highest combined health/prot" (but is lowest for medpack)
I used teams with 1 lvls + relic units, with GLs with no tanks, with random combinations with no tanks - Wat uses Tank Tech first 99.9% of the time and with no tank in a team he uses it at random. He can put it on lvl1 unit instead of relic 7 GL, he can put it on support or attacker. No pattern found, no priorities, just random.
But tank always gets tanks tech - thats true.
If "highest combined health/prot " SEE or Rey or SLKR would always get tank tech (with no tank in a team) as GLs have most hp/prot combined - and thats not true.
Does anyone know how the AI plays between Wat and SEE - namely which tech it picks for SEE?
I believe Wats tech order is Tank Tech: Tank - Highest combined health/prot > Other - highest combined health/prot > Medpac - lowest combined health/prot > Weapons > fastest attacker. If its just SEE/Wat youll get tank tech, if you have a full team itll be weapons assuming Wat survives long enough.
Well i actually tested it. And you are correct about Medpac and partially correct about tank Tech. If there isnt a tank present - Wat uses Tank Tech over Medpac, and puts it at random. I mean there is no "highest combined health/prot" (but is lowest for medpack)
I used teams with 1 lvls + relic units, with GLs with no tanks, with random combinations with no tanks - Wat uses Tank Tech first 99.9% of the time and with no tank in a team he uses it at random. He can put it on lvl1 unit instead of relic 7 GL, he can put it on support or attacker. No pattern found, no priorities, just random.
But tank always gets tanks tech - thats true.
If "highest combined health/prot " SEE or Rey or SLKR would always get tank tech (with no tank in a team) as GLs have most hp/prot combined - and thats not true.
Good to know. I hadnt actually done any testing on it myself. Do you know if its to the highest combined tank, or a random tank?
To those of you who say SEE is perfectly fine, please just give one area of the game where SEE is better that literally any other GL. Armourer means that now any GL can beat any team on offence, so all that matters is defence in arena - ok, that means that SEE as the weakest defensive GL is still the worst there, albeit by a smaller margin than before. In GAC defence > offence for GLs, so again he is the weakest GL, and in PvE he is useless. The point is NOT that he is terrible in any specific area of the game, just that he lacks any brilliance relative to any of the other GLs and can do nothing that any of the others can’t.
I’m not saying SEE is perfectly fine. I’m simply pointing out that there is no longer an excuse for SEE not being “on par” with the other GLs. “On par” is not the same as “equal” btw. SEE can be slightly worse than another GL and can still be considered on par. Here’s the breakdown:
1. Squad arena: JML/SEE are now better than Rey/SLK. This has been a slow developing trend, but it’s noticeable now. No one holds on defense anymore; now it’s about which GL is more annoying to beat, and SEE is very annoying if you don’t have SLK.
2. GAC/TW: Rey is best for defense, SEE is best for offense. JML takes too many Jedi to be considered top tier, and SLK has too many counters and cheese.
3. Raids: it’s SLK >>> Rey > JML/SEE. Even Rey loses now to Vader-Shaak Ti in CTR P1, so her raid viability is now back in the distant 2nd place again. JML is barely worth running in CTR P4 now, and will only get further minimized as people transition to Rey-Jedi for P4.
4. TBs: everyone gets 4/4, but obviously LS GLs are more valuable. Of the two, Rey is clearly stronger for LSGTB. JML lead sucks compared to slow JKL lead. No meaningful difference between SLK and SEE.
5. Misc: SEE, SLK, and Rey all have great ults. The last GL is arguably better for your roster if you don’t invest in his ult at all (GAC matchmaking). SEE is not the worst GL design by CG.
As you can see, SEE is on par for best GL in 3 of the 5 categories. Stop underselling how good SEE is in his niche; it makes a lot of you look out of touch.
I agree being able to beat SLKR takes SEE’s offense viability to a new level (I also agree in part to some of your other points but I’m going to focus on his offensive viability and what it means when compared to other GL’s.) SEE beating both Rey and SLKR is so valuable in someways it even overcomes his issues on defense. The issue I have is the barrier to entry. Yes some of the best Rey line ups require Jedi which are gated, but there are several Rey teams that work well and are easily accessible. Rey works great with several scoundrel teams. Heck even Jawas are getting good results with her. She doesn’t require someone like Malak to be good on defense. She is good on offense and on defense, and adding Malak makes her even better on defense. This applies (in some ways) to the other GL’s as well
While I don’t like the idea of making up numbers, I think for visual purposes it’s helpful. Taking into account offense and defense. (Also assuming different stages of players). Here’s how I would rank different team compositions.
SLKR w. FO 110
GML w/ Bad Jedi 80
GML w/ Good Jedi 100
GML w/ the best Jedi 120*
Rey w/ Resistance 90
Rey w/ Scoundrels 100
Rey w/ Malak 110
SEE w/ Sith 60**
SEE w/ Watt 100
SEE w Watt & The Armor 110
Thats not a perfect comparison, but it highlights my issue. The discovery that with The Armor you can beat SLKR puts his offensive viability so high I think it over comes his issues on defense. I still don’t like the reliability of that IT counter, but having a toon that beats every other toon in the game is fantastic. However the investment to achieve that level of viability is much higher than the others. He needs a solid A- team.
One final made up scenario I’ll make is if Rey could auto the Sith Raid but required a 6 Star KAM. Would you say She and SLKR are on par in the Sith Raid? Not a 7 Star. No weird mechanics or move orders just put it on auto. (I would even be tempted to say 5 stars due to the difficulty of unlocking KAM)***. SLKR does it right out the door with some minor tweaks, but a situation where Rey with a 5-6 star toon thats difficult to unlock, but does it and does it on auto. Is that a situation where two toons are on par? Thats sort of how I see this comparison with SEE and Wat.
As an owner of the Rey and JML you can tell me if I’m completely off the mark here. I did try to be fair with this.
*I would also throw some of the Wat /Bastila combos under this. I didn’t want to have too many lines. I would put the Jedi combo higher than the Wat/Bastila combo, but I agree it breaks up too many teams.
**The reason this is low is I’m looking at which teams did I have to break up. How good is this on offense. How good is it on defense. It’s a little bit easier to break up JML into Good/Better Jedi. SEE is a bit more mixed. You can make a pretty good argument for both SE an Triumvirate. It’s hard to say which one would be the best. It Depends. The weaker Sith get less out of SEE than the weaker Jedi get out of JML. However all SEE teams share the same defense liabilities which in my (totally made up for visual purposes and understanding) rankings has a big impact on his viability.
*** I realize KAM is much harder than the other toons to unlock. I needed something that was difficult but accessible for end game players. 7 Star was way too high but I think 5-6 stars if you’re in a guild that regularly gets shards is accessible.
I think SEE could use a buff, mainly because he is terrible in raids. That being said, I don’t think he is that bad overall, my friend with SEE has no problem climbing to rank 1 in the arena every day which means he is at least decent. I don’t understand the hate SEE gets but I know he isn’t great PVE, so I propose 2 potential solutions:
1.) release more sith tanks that have kits that interact well with SEE and buff him
2.) buff SEE’s Leadership ability and pre-ultimate viability.
That being said, given how broad the faction of Sith is, it’s almost inevitable that we will get more sith in the future, whether that be marquee or even Fallen Anakin GL.
I would also like to reemphasize that I don’t personally believe SEE is bad. I think he has his uses, but sorely lacks in raids. An example would be: all 3 other GLs can do at least 10% or above in Crancor with the right team, but with how SEEs ultimate charges, he just cannot get it in the raid, this allows him only to do about 3% damage.
Whatever the Devs decide to do, I appreciate it and really enjoy this game
Good to know. I hadnt actually done any testing on it myself. Do you know if its to the highest combined tank, or a random tank?
Wow, yo are right. Just did a couple of tries with tanks and its indeed the highest hp+prot. 6/6 tries GK got tank tech, then swapped him for weak tank - and 5/5 times Fives got tank tech (and without GK he became highest hp+prot tank among 4 others)
To those of you who say SEE is perfectly fine, please just give one area of the game where SEE is better that literally any other GL. Armourer means that now any GL can beat any team on offence, so all that matters is defence in arena - ok, that means that SEE as the weakest defensive GL is still the worst there, albeit by a smaller margin than before. In GAC defence > offence for GLs, so again he is the weakest GL, and in PvE he is useless. The point is NOT that he is terrible in any specific area of the game, just that he lacks any brilliance relative to any of the other GLs and can do nothing that any of the others can’t.
I’m not saying SEE is perfectly fine. I’m simply pointing out that there is no longer an excuse for SEE not being “on par” with the other GLs. “On par” is not the same as “equal” btw. SEE can be slightly worse than another GL and can still be considered on par. Here’s the breakdown:
1. Squad arena: JML/SEE are now better than Rey/SLK. This has been a slow developing trend, but it’s noticeable now. No one holds on defense anymore; now it’s about which GL is more annoying to beat, and SEE is very annoying if you don’t have SLK.
2. GAC/TW: Rey is best for defense, SEE is best for offense. JML takes too many Jedi to be considered top tier, and SLK has too many counters and cheese.
3. Raids: it’s SLK >>> Rey > JML/SEE. Even Rey loses now to Vader-Shaak Ti in CTR P1, so her raid viability is now back in the distant 2nd place again. JML is barely worth running in CTR P4 now, and will only get further minimized as people transition to Rey-Jedi for P4.
4. TBs: everyone gets 4/4, but obviously LS GLs are more valuable. Of the two, Rey is clearly stronger for LSGTB. JML lead sucks compared to slow JKL lead. No meaningful difference between SLK and SEE.
5. Misc: SEE, SLK, and Rey all have great ults. The last GL is arguably better for your roster if you don’t invest in his ult at all (GAC matchmaking). SEE is not the worst GL design by CG.
As you can see, SEE is on par for best GL in 3 of the 5 categories. Stop underselling how good SEE is in his niche; it makes a lot of you look out of touch.
I agree being able to beat SLKR takes SEE’s offense viability to a new level (I also agree in part to some of your other points but I’m going to focus on his offensive viability and what it means when compared to other GL’s.) SEE beating both Rey and SLKR is so valuable in someways it even overcomes his issues on defense. The issue I have is the barrier to entry. Yes some of the best Rey line ups require Jedi which are gated, but there are several Rey teams that work well and are easily accessible. Rey works great with several scoundrel teams. Heck even Jawas are getting good results with her. She doesn’t require someone like Malak to be good on defense. She is good on offense and on defense, and adding Malak makes her even better on defense. This applies (in some ways) to the other GL’s as well
While I don’t like the idea of making up numbers, I think for visual purposes it’s helpful. Taking into account offense and defense. (Also assuming different stages of players). Here’s how I would rank different team compositions.
SLKR w. FO 110
GML w/ Bad Jedi 80
GML w/ Good Jedi 100
GML w/ the best Jedi 120*
Rey w/ Resistance 90
Rey w/ Scoundrels 100
Rey w/ Malak 110
SEE w/ Sith 60**
SEE w/ Watt 100
SEE w Watt & The Armor 110
Thats not a perfect comparison, but it highlights my issue. The discovery that with The Armor you can beat SLKR puts his offensive viability so high I think it over comes his issues on defense. I still don’t like the reliability of that IT counter, but having a toon that beats every other toon in the game is fantastic. However the investment to achieve that level of viability is much higher than the others. He needs a solid A- team.
One final made up scenario I’ll make is if Rey could auto the Sith Raid but required a 6 Star KAM. Would you say She and SLKR are on par in the Sith Raid? Not a 7 Star. No weird mechanics or move orders just put it on auto. (I would even be tempted to say 5 stars due to the difficulty of unlocking KAM)***. SLKR does it right out the door with some minor tweaks, but a situation where Rey with a 5-6 star toon thats difficult to unlock, but does it and does it on auto. Is that a situation where two toons are on par? Thats sort of how I see this comparison with SEE and Wat.
As an owner of the Rey and JML you can tell me if I’m completely off the mark here. I did try to be fair with this.
*I would also throw some of the Wat /Bastila combos under this. I didn’t want to have too many lines. I would put the Jedi combo higher than the Wat/Bastila combo, but I agree it breaks up too many teams.
**The reason this is low is I’m looking at which teams did I have to break up. How good is this on offense. How good is it on defense. It’s a little bit easier to break up JML into Good/Better Jedi. SEE is a bit more mixed. You can make a pretty good argument for both SE an Triumvirate. It’s hard to say which one would be the best. It Depends. The weaker Sith get less out of SEE than the weaker Jedi get out of JML. However all SEE teams share the same defense liabilities which in my (totally made up for visual purposes and understanding) rankings has a big impact on his viability.
*** I realize KAM is much harder than the other toons to unlock. I needed something that was difficult but accessible for end game players. 7 Star was way too high but I think 5-6 stars if you’re in a guild that regularly gets shards is accessible.
Tbf, Rey and JML all relied on Wat extensively too during their times at the top of the meta. Rey needed someone like GK to pretaunt in order for SLK to not poke GAS, JML needs the tech to even function as a tank in the JKR lead meta.
The Armorer is a marquee that functions just fine at 3* for SEE. Very accessible.
I get your point, but I don’t think toon- accessibility or investment is that valid of criticism as things currently stand. Yes, if KAM was suddenly required for the top of squad arena meta, a lot of players will be scrambling and screaming unfair. But to CG’s credit, they made Wat relatively accessible and functional right at unlock, same for Armorer. Until CG proves otherwise, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt in this instance.
I def stopped, it’s pretty obvious nothing is coming. Also, as TVF has reminded us a number of times, what we say does not matter in regard to actual changes coming from the devs. Even Doja stated as much (the independent testing done over the holiday is worth more than these 142 pages).
I think the appropriate thing to do is learn a lesson. I know next GL release, I will WAIT for gameplay from the few YouTubers who whale on these characters.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
I def stopped, it’s pretty obvious nothing is coming. Also, as TVF has reminded us a number of times, what we say does not matter in regard to actual changes coming from the devs.
Not entirely true, but eventually everyone is just repeating the same points.
I def stopped, it’s pretty obvious nothing is coming. Also, as TVF has reminded us a number of times, what we say does not matter in regard to actual changes coming from the devs. Even Doja stated as much (the independent testing done over the holiday is worth more than these 142 pages).
I think the appropriate thing to do is learn a lesson. I know next GL release, I will WAIT for gameplay from the few YouTubers who whale on these characters.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
Exactly.
1. Get SLK, win at GOH apparently.
2. If you can afford it for squad arena, wait as long as possible before committing to either of the next set of GLs. Slow farm the marquees and hoard that gear.
Btw, do you think they’ll go back to one toon being the new meta at some point? It seems to me that after 4 GLs, they’re running out of decent toons for us to relic. If they keep releasing GLs in pairs, there’s going to be some overlap in prereqs sooner rather than later.
For example, I can imagine Fallen Anakin as a standalone DS GL for the next round. Then Jedi Knight Kenobi half a year later. Would make sense for CG to keep the DS/LS back and forth at top of meta: Traya > JKR > DR > GAS > SLK > JML > next DS GL > next LS GL, etc.
I def stopped, it’s pretty obvious nothing is coming. Also, as TVF has reminded us a number of times, what we say does not matter in regard to actual changes coming from the devs. Even Doja stated as much (the independent testing done over the holiday is worth more than these 142 pages).
I think the appropriate thing to do is learn a lesson. I know next GL release, I will WAIT for gameplay from the few YouTubers who whale on these characters.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
Exactly.
1. Get SLK, win at GOH apparently.
2. If you can afford it for squad arena, wait as long as possible before committing to either of the next set of GLs. Slow farm the marquees and hoard that gear.
Btw, do you think they’ll go back to one toon being the new meta at some point? It seems to me that after 4 GLs, they’re running out of decent toons for us to relic. If they keep releasing GLs in pairs, there’s going to be some overlap in prereqs sooner rather than later.
For example, I can imagine Fallen Anakin as a standalone DS GL for the next round. Then Jedi Knight Kenobi half a year later. Would make sense for CG to keep the DS/LS back and forth at top of meta: Traya > JKR > DR > GAS > SLK > JML > next DS GL > next LS GL, etc.
They could make us relic 8 a bunch of older chars instead of asking for a bunch of lower relic chars. The jump from R7 --> R8 is pretty painful and resource demanding itself.
I def stopped, it’s pretty obvious nothing is coming. Also, as TVF has reminded us a number of times, what we say does not matter in regard to actual changes coming from the devs. Even Doja stated as much (the independent testing done over the holiday is worth more than these 142 pages).
I think the appropriate thing to do is learn a lesson. I know next GL release, I will WAIT for gameplay from the few YouTubers who whale on these characters.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
Exactly.
1. Get SLK, win at GOH apparently.
2. If you can afford it for squad arena, wait as long as possible before committing to either of the next set of GLs. Slow farm the marquees and hoard that gear.
Btw, do you think they’ll go back to one toon being the new meta at some point? It seems to me that after 4 GLs, they’re running out of decent toons for us to relic. If they keep releasing GLs in pairs, there’s going to be some overlap in prereqs sooner rather than later.
For example, I can imagine Fallen Anakin as a standalone DS GL for the next round. Then Jedi Knight Kenobi half a year later. Would make sense for CG to keep the DS/LS back and forth at top of meta: Traya > JKR > DR > GAS > SLK > JML > next DS GL > next LS GL, etc.
They could make us relic 8 a bunch of older chars instead of asking for a bunch of lower relic chars. The jump from R7 --> R8 is pretty painful and resource demanding itself.
Yep, that’s another monetization route. That’s why I’m saving all the R8 raid scrap, stockpiling zinbiddles, and buying salvage for impulse detectors.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
Doubt that will be the case for next gls. This 2nd batch was cg's meh attempt at making the new ones not too op. Otherwise that creates an expectation of constant meta escalation. Since they rather buff something, rather than nerf it (due to community reception of nerfing) they gauged it too low...and they failed to redeem themselves later on. They still may.
Anyway I'm willing to bet the time interval has been enough by the time next batch is released for another slight escalation. As always, for gls and other things, you should be hoarding without putting gear on until you are fully ready.
SEE has taught me to NEVER splurge on anything CG releases.
I’ve spent a lot on this game and usually am willing to for certain toons. Im happy that I got SLKR instead of Rey. Also, I’m glad I went for SEE before JML as I would have probably went for SEE immediately after JML and spent more money. Now I’m FTP’ing JML.
SEE has taught me to NEVER splurge on anything CG releases.
I’ve spent a lot on this game and usually am willing to for certain toons. Im happy that I got SLKR instead of Rey. Also, I’m glad I went for SEE before JML as I would have probably went for SEE immediately after JML and spent more money. Now I’m FTP’ing JML.
Thanks CG! Lesson learned.
Yep, about to get JML free as well. Wallets been closed since SEE release. Been liberating to say the least.
Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
Replies
As I said, Tank tech is tank highest combined health/prot, or if lacking a tank, the highest combined health/prot character on the team.
And as I said, when using only SEE/Wat, as in only two characters, Wats ai will put tank tech on SEE. Or, when using a full team, as in 5 characters, Wat will prioritise tank tech to a tank, or the healthiest non tank if you dont have one, then medpac, then weapons tech which is usually what SEE will get as you almost always have a tank in the lineup.
To be fair, had JKLs lead worked against GLs it would probably be the best lead in the game.
This would give him some Raid viability, as he would then be able to meaningfully buff the vader-type raid squads, without being insane. It would also mean that he would ‘feel’ cooler as his damage would ramp up quite a bit faster in the late-game.
Yh swap tm with JKR reduce a GL’s speed to 112 - lol.
His link issue and extreme low damage vs. dark side issue still need to be addressed though.
Well i actually tested it. And you are correct about Medpac and partially correct about tank Tech. If there isnt a tank present - Wat uses Tank Tech over Medpac, and puts it at random. I mean there is no "highest combined health/prot" (but is lowest for medpack)
I used teams with 1 lvls + relic units, with GLs with no tanks, with random combinations with no tanks - Wat uses Tank Tech first 99.9% of the time and with no tank in a team he uses it at random. He can put it on lvl1 unit instead of relic 7 GL, he can put it on support or attacker. No pattern found, no priorities, just random.
But tank always gets tanks tech - thats true.
If "highest combined health/prot " SEE or Rey or SLKR would always get tank tech (with no tank in a team) as GLs have most hp/prot combined - and thats not true.
Good to know. I hadnt actually done any testing on it myself. Do you know if its to the highest combined tank, or a random tank?
I agree being able to beat SLKR takes SEE’s offense viability to a new level (I also agree in part to some of your other points but I’m going to focus on his offensive viability and what it means when compared to other GL’s.) SEE beating both Rey and SLKR is so valuable in someways it even overcomes his issues on defense. The issue I have is the barrier to entry. Yes some of the best Rey line ups require Jedi which are gated, but there are several Rey teams that work well and are easily accessible. Rey works great with several scoundrel teams. Heck even Jawas are getting good results with her. She doesn’t require someone like Malak to be good on defense. She is good on offense and on defense, and adding Malak makes her even better on defense. This applies (in some ways) to the other GL’s as well
While I don’t like the idea of making up numbers, I think for visual purposes it’s helpful. Taking into account offense and defense. (Also assuming different stages of players). Here’s how I would rank different team compositions.
SLKR w. FO 110
GML w/ Bad Jedi 80
GML w/ Good Jedi 100
GML w/ the best Jedi 120*
Rey w/ Resistance 90
Rey w/ Scoundrels 100
Rey w/ Malak 110
SEE w/ Sith 60**
SEE w/ Watt 100
SEE w Watt & The Armor 110
Thats not a perfect comparison, but it highlights my issue. The discovery that with The Armor you can beat SLKR puts his offensive viability so high I think it over comes his issues on defense. I still don’t like the reliability of that IT counter, but having a toon that beats every other toon in the game is fantastic. However the investment to achieve that level of viability is much higher than the others. He needs a solid A- team.
One final made up scenario I’ll make is if Rey could auto the Sith Raid but required a 6 Star KAM. Would you say She and SLKR are on par in the Sith Raid? Not a 7 Star. No weird mechanics or move orders just put it on auto. (I would even be tempted to say 5 stars due to the difficulty of unlocking KAM)***. SLKR does it right out the door with some minor tweaks, but a situation where Rey with a 5-6 star toon thats difficult to unlock, but does it and does it on auto. Is that a situation where two toons are on par? Thats sort of how I see this comparison with SEE and Wat.
As an owner of the Rey and JML you can tell me if I’m completely off the mark here. I did try to be fair with this.
*I would also throw some of the Wat /Bastila combos under this. I didn’t want to have too many lines. I would put the Jedi combo higher than the Wat/Bastila combo, but I agree it breaks up too many teams.
**The reason this is low is I’m looking at which teams did I have to break up. How good is this on offense. How good is it on defense. It’s a little bit easier to break up JML into Good/Better Jedi. SEE is a bit more mixed. You can make a pretty good argument for both SE an Triumvirate. It’s hard to say which one would be the best. It Depends. The weaker Sith get less out of SEE than the weaker Jedi get out of JML. However all SEE teams share the same defense liabilities which in my (totally made up for visual purposes and understanding) rankings has a big impact on his viability.
*** I realize KAM is much harder than the other toons to unlock. I needed something that was difficult but accessible for end game players. 7 Star was way too high but I think 5-6 stars if you’re in a guild that regularly gets shards is accessible.
1.) release more sith tanks that have kits that interact well with SEE and buff him
2.) buff SEE’s Leadership ability and pre-ultimate viability.
That being said, given how broad the faction of Sith is, it’s almost inevitable that we will get more sith in the future, whether that be marquee or even Fallen Anakin GL.
I would also like to reemphasize that I don’t personally believe SEE is bad. I think he has his uses, but sorely lacks in raids. An example would be: all 3 other GLs can do at least 10% or above in Crancor with the right team, but with how SEEs ultimate charges, he just cannot get it in the raid, this allows him only to do about 3% damage.
Whatever the Devs decide to do, I appreciate it and really enjoy this game
Wow, yo are right. Just did a couple of tries with tanks and its indeed the highest hp+prot. 6/6 tries GK got tank tech, then swapped him for weak tank - and 5/5 times Fives got tank tech (and without GK he became highest hp+prot tank among 4 others)
Pretty interesting
Tbf, Rey and JML all relied on Wat extensively too during their times at the top of the meta. Rey needed someone like GK to pretaunt in order for SLK to not poke GAS, JML needs the tech to even function as a tank in the JKR lead meta.
The Armorer is a marquee that functions just fine at 3* for SEE. Very accessible.
I get your point, but I don’t think toon- accessibility or investment is that valid of criticism as things currently stand. Yes, if KAM was suddenly required for the top of squad arena meta, a lot of players will be scrambling and screaming unfair. But to CG’s credit, they made Wat relatively accessible and functional right at unlock, same for Armorer. Until CG proves otherwise, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt in this instance.
Just wait and SEE!
Get it? It’s SEE as in the character name, but also actually “see”.
Something similar like the clones.
When a allied attacker dies, he gave some boni to the attack strength for the remaining sith.
A tank dies, defence and protection raised
A supporter dies add more speed.
Because right now his leadership is total garbage.
Most time the other team member does almost nothing, except dying.
I think the appropriate thing to do is learn a lesson. I know next GL release, I will WAIT for gameplay from the few YouTubers who whale on these characters.
If you don’t have SLKR, go get him and you effectively no longer need to farm anything else to do well in the game. The 2nd batch of GLs showed that new GLs will not destroy the previous GL metas, hence low to no need to farm any more GLs ever again. Thanks for saving us money, CG!
Not entirely true, but eventually everyone is just repeating the same points.
Exactly.
1. Get SLK, win at GOH apparently.
2. If you can afford it for squad arena, wait as long as possible before committing to either of the next set of GLs. Slow farm the marquees and hoard that gear.
Btw, do you think they’ll go back to one toon being the new meta at some point? It seems to me that after 4 GLs, they’re running out of decent toons for us to relic. If they keep releasing GLs in pairs, there’s going to be some overlap in prereqs sooner rather than later.
For example, I can imagine Fallen Anakin as a standalone DS GL for the next round. Then Jedi Knight Kenobi half a year later. Would make sense for CG to keep the DS/LS back and forth at top of meta: Traya > JKR > DR > GAS > SLK > JML > next DS GL > next LS GL, etc.
They could make us relic 8 a bunch of older chars instead of asking for a bunch of lower relic chars. The jump from R7 --> R8 is pretty painful and resource demanding itself.
Yep, that’s another monetization route. That’s why I’m saving all the R8 raid scrap, stockpiling zinbiddles, and buying salvage for impulse detectors.
Doubt that will be the case for next gls. This 2nd batch was cg's meh attempt at making the new ones not too op. Otherwise that creates an expectation of constant meta escalation. Since they rather buff something, rather than nerf it (due to community reception of nerfing) they gauged it too low...and they failed to redeem themselves later on. They still may.
Anyway I'm willing to bet the time interval has been enough by the time next batch is released for another slight escalation. As always, for gls and other things, you should be hoarding without putting gear on until you are fully ready.
I’ve spent a lot on this game and usually am willing to for certain toons. Im happy that I got SLKR instead of Rey. Also, I’m glad I went for SEE before JML as I would have probably went for SEE immediately after JML and spent more money. Now I’m FTP’ing JML.
Thanks CG! Lesson learned.
Yep, about to get JML free as well. Wallets been closed since SEE release. Been liberating to say the least.
That's not how quotes work.