I think the aggrieved feel that link is still clunky, his kit doesn’t synergize well with sith, and he is only useful in one area of the game. Basically the stuff that comprises this novel of a thread
As an aside I think the “buy this new toon to fix your GL” strategy is pretty lame
I think at this point it's hard to add much new to the conversation. It would have been helpful if CG had explained the reasoning behind his kit design but they haven't - and to be fair I don't think they ever have with other characters.
My guess is that from CG's perspective, SEE isn't supported by the equivalent of JKL or GAS because the team would be completely OP. His thing is to have some high health and protection characters around him to take the hits, while JML and co charge up his ultimate. He's basically unbeatable on offence, but compromised on defence. That's his strength. That's his weakness.
Too bad your faction got a GL that requires non-sith to put him on par
Rey's best arena lineup uses Jedi and JML's best arena lineup uses a separatist. SLKR is the only GL that can truly use his own faction exclusively. I'm not sure why this keeps being brought up.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Too bad your faction got a GL that requires non-sith to put him on par
Rey's best arena lineup uses Jedi and JML's best arena lineup uses a separatist. SLKR is the only GL that can truly use his own faction exclusively. I'm not sure why this keeps being brought up.
I think the aggrieved feel that link is still clunky, his kit doesn’t synergize well with sith, and he is only useful in one area of the game. Basically the stuff that comprises this novel of a thread
As an aside I think the “buy this new toon to fix your GL” strategy is pretty lame
Which one game mode? Because even if you think that about arena, that means he is also useful in GAC and TW.
Also, no one has even argued hes not usable in TBs, just that other teams can do the same thing, so he is useful there too, it just doesn't fit the narrative to say that when talking about him being someone's first GL.
SEE is fine in PvP but terrible in PvE. If you think SEE is bad in PvP then you just don't know how to use him properly.
On offense in PvP he's great. Defense is so/so, depending on what you're going up against. Rey, SLKR can easily beat him of course, Imperial Troopers is a breeze in GAC but no one dares use Imperial troopers in Arena. JML can beat him pretty easily and consistently if you mod your JML with lots of offense, and I mean lots of offense.
PvE is the biggest issue with SEE (that and how it's easier to beat him in PvP solo, which is just silly and a poorly designed game mechanic that really should be fixed).
If your only goal is Arena and PvP, SEE is a great pick, way better better than Rey and SLKR , but JML is just as good in PvP and provides a larger overall value. With the JML path, you unlock JKL in the process whos is like a GL-light. So you get 1.5 GLs for the price of one.
For a first GL on a newer account, I think I'd still recommend getting SLKR first. He's not going to give you quite as much use in Arena as SEE would, BUT he makes up for it with the amazing utility he has in all the PvE game modes. You're going to get a much bigger boost placing first in sith raid and cpit raid than you would with an extra 100 arena crystals a day.
Btw I don't understand how people are having trouble using SLKR in Arena these days. I place in top 3 almost every day now and am using SLKR about 70% of the time and SEE 30% of the time.
Initially, when not many people had SEE and Arena was flooded with JMLs, it was impossible to climb with SLKR.
But now that more and more people have SEE, SLKR'S PvP value is steadily returning. Couple his returning PvP viability with his amazing PvE abilities, and SLKR's overall value blows SEE out of the water.
Couple his returning PvP viability with his amazing PvE abilities, and SLKR's overall value blows SEE, JML and Rey out of the water.
Fixed your post...which simply states what everyone already knows.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Btw I don't understand how people are having trouble using SLKR in Arena these days. I place in top 3 almost every day now and am using SLKR about 70% of the time and SEE 30% of the time.
Initially, when not many people had SEE and Arena was flooded with JMLs, it was impossible to climb with SLKR.
But now that more and more people have SEE, SLKR'S PvP value is steadily returning. Couple his returning PvP viability with his amazing PvE abilities, and SLKR's overall value blows SEE out of the water.
Don’t forget that SLK is also the counter to those cancer Bastila lead-JML-Wat-Chewie squads.
Why did CG make SLK so good? Question I ask myself daily lol.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Ah yes, the guy who JUST unlocked him knows better than the people who have had him for months and have been testing him in every facet of the game.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Non-ult SEE more fun than SLKR? If you think throwing 40k crits throughout the entire game is fun youll probably love R7 CUP.
If you actually did the math youd realize how crappy the stacking mastery from his lead is. A R7 tank will get 5000 protection from the 50% mastery in his leadership, and an additional 550 every time an enemy uses an ability, which will increase with 5% of that and so forth. With that in mind it will take 20 abilities to reach 20K protection, which is pretty much nothing, especially considering your tanks are either dead or beaten up badly after 20 abilities unless you fight a MM team. A flat 20% protection at the start of the game would have been infinitely more usefull. R7 attackers like Marauder and Revan gets 550 offense from the 50% Mastery, and 87 offense every time an enemy uses an ability stacking by 5 %. After 12 abilities you get 2000 extra offense wich is still less than a flat 30% offense boost. Thats not considering the fact that most Sith Attackers like Darth Revan, Marauder (and even SEE) have really crappy dmg multipliers and need huge amounts of offense to gain any noticeable dmg.
The reason mastery increase is soo strong on SLKR is because 1. He gains offense AND CD from it, meaning its a double dmg increase and 2. He gains several 100s of percent every time. The only reason its remotely impactfull for SEE is because he gains twice as much as the rest of the team and later doubles it with his ult, but also because hes the only attacker who will survive long enough to actually reach meaningfull amounts.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Non-ult SEE more fun than SLKR? If you think throwing 40k crits throughout the entire game is fun youll probably love R7 CUP.
If you actually did the math youd realize how crappy the stacking mastery from his lead is. A R7 tank will get 5000 protection from the 50% mastery in his leadership, and an additional 550 every time an enemy uses an ability, which will increase with 5% of that and so forth. With that in mind it will take 20 abilities to reach 20K protection, which is pretty much nothing, especially considering your tanks are either dead or beaten up badly after 20 abilities unless you fight a MM team. A flat 20% protection at the start of the game would have been infinitely more usefull. R7 attackers like Marauder and Revan gets 550 offense from the 50% Mastery, and 87 offense every time an enemy uses an ability stacking by 5 %. After 12 abilities you get 2000 extra offense wich is still less than a flat 30% offense boost. Thats not considering the fact that most Sith Attackers like Darth Revan, Marauder (and even SEE) have really crappy dmg multipliers and need huge amounts of offense to gain any noticeable dmg.
The reason mastery increase is soo strong on SLKR is because 1. He gains offense AND CD from it, meaning its a double dmg increase and 2. He gains several 100s of percent every time. The only reason its remotely impactfull for SEE is because he gains twice as much as the rest of the team and later doubles it with his ult, but also because hes the only attacker who will survive long enough to actually reach meaningfull amounts.
Wow! Congrats on that long write up that I didn't read half of. And jfyi, damage numbers and values doesn't equal fun to some people but I'm well aware of exactly how mastery works so thanks.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Ah yes, the guy who JUST unlocked him knows better than the people who have had him for months and have been testing him in every facet of the game.
Where did I mention anywhere in my statement that I said I knew more than everyone else? That's right.....I didn't but go ahead and keep pretending that I did. #forumlovex4
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Ah yes, the guy who JUST unlocked him knows better than the people who have had him for months and have been testing him in every facet of the game.
Where did I mention anywhere in my statement that I said I knew more than everyone else? That's right.....I didn't but go ahead and keep pretending that I did. #forumlovex4
Here is your quote:
“And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.”
While you did not say you know more than everyone else, you did use fairly condescending language implying that others don’t understand mastery. Then when a post was issued about mastery, you simply dismiss it without reading it. Not surprised that you’ve found little “love” here, if this is how you engage in discussion.
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Ah yes, the guy who JUST unlocked him knows better than the people who have had him for months and have been testing him in every facet of the game.
Where did I mention anywhere in my statement that I said I knew more than everyone else? That's right.....I didn't but go ahead and keep pretending that I did. #forumlovex4
Here is your quote:
“And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.”
While you did not say you know more than everyone else, you did use fairly condescending language implying that others don’t understand mastery. Then when a post was issued about mastery, you simply dismiss it without reading it. Not surprised that you’ve found little “love” here, if this is how you engage in discussion.
It's called reading comprehension. Let's try this again shall we? AND FOR THE PEOPLE saying he doesnt do much as a sith leader..... so...... if you aren't one of those people than this clearly isn't for you now is it? It's not that difficult it really isn't.
The fact you responded as such only lends credence to my point. You do not see your condescending tone. Now people don’t know how to read. Feel free to escalate further.
The fact you responded as such only lends credence to my point. You do not see your condescending tone. Now people don’t know how to read. Feel free to escalate further.
No thanks I'll pass as bickering on this forum gets both parties absolutely nowhere. Wasnt trying to argue here, just saying he does more than people think he does for sith. Just the +40 speed, +60% potency goes miles for Sith not even including the mastery. That's all I have to add and hopefully you have a great day. )
The fact you responded as such only lends credence to my point. You do not see your condescending tone. Now people don’t know how to read. Feel free to escalate further.
No thanks I'll pass as bickering on this forum gets both parties absolutely nowhere. Wasnt trying to argue here, just saying he does more than people think he does for sith. Just the +40 speed, +60% potency goes miles for Sith not even including the mastery. That's all I have to add and hopefully you have a great day. )
I just unlocked SEE and personally finding him about twice the fun of slkr and I don't even have his ultimate yet. He may be bad on defense, I don't care. But my God does he completely wreck face on all these Jedi scum in arena. And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.
Non-ult SEE more fun than SLKR? If you think throwing 40k crits throughout the entire game is fun youll probably love R7 CUP.
If you actually did the math youd realize how crappy the stacking mastery from his lead is. A R7 tank will get 5000 protection from the 50% mastery in his leadership, and an additional 550 every time an enemy uses an ability, which will increase with 5% of that and so forth. With that in mind it will take 20 abilities to reach 20K protection, which is pretty much nothing, especially considering your tanks are either dead or beaten up badly after 20 abilities unless you fight a MM team. A flat 20% protection at the start of the game would have been infinitely more usefull. R7 attackers like Marauder and Revan gets 550 offense from the 50% Mastery, and 87 offense every time an enemy uses an ability stacking by 5 %. After 12 abilities you get 2000 extra offense wich is still less than a flat 30% offense boost. Thats not considering the fact that most Sith Attackers like Darth Revan, Marauder (and even SEE) have really crappy dmg multipliers and need huge amounts of offense to gain any noticeable dmg.
The reason mastery increase is soo strong on SLKR is because 1. He gains offense AND CD from it, meaning its a double dmg increase and 2. He gains several 100s of percent every time. The only reason its remotely impactfull for SEE is because he gains twice as much as the rest of the team and later doubles it with his ult, but also because hes the only attacker who will survive long enough to actually reach meaningfull amounts.
Wow! Congrats on that long write up that I didn't read half of. And jfyi, damage numbers and values doesn't equal fun to some people but I'm well aware of exactly how mastery works so thanks.
Do you know how numbers work? Because damage numbers and values determines how much SEEs leadership does, which you seem to claim does a lot.
While no one can tell you how to have fun, I do still find it odd that a person would find it more fun to use one meaningfull ability and spend the rest of the game doing nothing rather than actively impacting the game with dmg, cc and/or support. Each one to their own I suppose.
Replies
As an aside I think the “buy this new toon to fix your GL” strategy is pretty lame
My guess is that from CG's perspective, SEE isn't supported by the equivalent of JKL or GAS because the team would be completely OP. His thing is to have some high health and protection characters around him to take the hits, while JML and co charge up his ultimate. He's basically unbeatable on offence, but compromised on defence. That's his strength. That's his weakness.
Too bad your faction got a GL that requires non-sith to put him on par
Rey's best arena lineup uses Jedi and JML's best arena lineup uses a separatist. SLKR is the only GL that can truly use his own faction exclusively. I'm not sure why this keeps being brought up.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Straws are being grasped.
Which one game mode? Because even if you think that about arena, that means he is also useful in GAC and TW.
Also, no one has even argued hes not usable in TBs, just that other teams can do the same thing, so he is useful there too, it just doesn't fit the narrative to say that when talking about him being someone's first GL.
On offense in PvP he's great. Defense is so/so, depending on what you're going up against. Rey, SLKR can easily beat him of course, Imperial Troopers is a breeze in GAC but no one dares use Imperial troopers in Arena. JML can beat him pretty easily and consistently if you mod your JML with lots of offense, and I mean lots of offense.
PvE is the biggest issue with SEE (that and how it's easier to beat him in PvP solo, which is just silly and a poorly designed game mechanic that really should be fixed).
If your only goal is Arena and PvP, SEE is a great pick, way better better than Rey and SLKR , but JML is just as good in PvP and provides a larger overall value. With the JML path, you unlock JKL in the process whos is like a GL-light. So you get 1.5 GLs for the price of one.
For a first GL on a newer account, I think I'd still recommend getting SLKR first. He's not going to give you quite as much use in Arena as SEE would, BUT he makes up for it with the amazing utility he has in all the PvE game modes. You're going to get a much bigger boost placing first in sith raid and cpit raid than you would with an extra 100 arena crystals a day.
Initially, when not many people had SEE and Arena was flooded with JMLs, it was impossible to climb with SLKR.
But now that more and more people have SEE, SLKR'S PvP value is steadily returning. Couple his returning PvP viability with his amazing PvE abilities, and SLKR's overall value blows SEE out of the water.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Don’t forget that SLK is also the counter to those cancer Bastila lead-JML-Wat-Chewie squads.
Why did CG make SLK so good? Question I ask myself daily lol.
Fear. Adam Driver is probably the most skilled in hand to hand combat of all the Star Wars cast.
Gina Barano would lay him down without a sweat, but the strongest character had to come from a movie.
Ah yes, the guy who JUST unlocked him knows better than the people who have had him for months and have been testing him in every facet of the game.
Funny speculation, but I'm guessing it's because Kylo sells a lot more action figures and T-shirts than wrinkly old corpse SEE does.
My neighbors aren't even big star wars fans but they put up a big kylo ren decoration foe halloween every year, lol.
Non-ult SEE more fun than SLKR? If you think throwing 40k crits throughout the entire game is fun youll probably love R7 CUP.
If you actually did the math youd realize how crappy the stacking mastery from his lead is. A R7 tank will get 5000 protection from the 50% mastery in his leadership, and an additional 550 every time an enemy uses an ability, which will increase with 5% of that and so forth. With that in mind it will take 20 abilities to reach 20K protection, which is pretty much nothing, especially considering your tanks are either dead or beaten up badly after 20 abilities unless you fight a MM team. A flat 20% protection at the start of the game would have been infinitely more usefull. R7 attackers like Marauder and Revan gets 550 offense from the 50% Mastery, and 87 offense every time an enemy uses an ability stacking by 5 %. After 12 abilities you get 2000 extra offense wich is still less than a flat 30% offense boost. Thats not considering the fact that most Sith Attackers like Darth Revan, Marauder (and even SEE) have really crappy dmg multipliers and need huge amounts of offense to gain any noticeable dmg.
The reason mastery increase is soo strong on SLKR is because 1. He gains offense AND CD from it, meaning its a double dmg increase and 2. He gains several 100s of percent every time. The only reason its remotely impactfull for SEE is because he gains twice as much as the rest of the team and later doubles it with his ult, but also because hes the only attacker who will survive long enough to actually reach meaningfull amounts.
Wow! Congrats on that long write up that I didn't read half of. And jfyi, damage numbers and values doesn't equal fun to some people but I'm well aware of exactly how mastery works so thanks.
Where did I mention anywhere in my statement that I said I knew more than everyone else? That's right.....I didn't but go ahead and keep pretending that I did. #forumlovex4
Here is your quote:
“And for the people saying he doesnt do much for the sith as leader..... you clearly don't understand how mastery works. He's doing more than you think he's doing. He's basically a slkr siphon for your entire Sith team on a smaller scale.”
While you did not say you know more than everyone else, you did use fairly condescending language implying that others don’t understand mastery. Then when a post was issued about mastery, you simply dismiss it without reading it. Not surprised that you’ve found little “love” here, if this is how you engage in discussion.
It's called reading comprehension. Let's try this again shall we? AND FOR THE PEOPLE saying he doesnt do much as a sith leader..... so...... if you aren't one of those people than this clearly isn't for you now is it? It's not that difficult it really isn't.
Do you know how numbers work? Because damage numbers and values determines how much SEEs leadership does, which you seem to claim does a lot.
While no one can tell you how to have fun, I do still find it odd that a person would find it more fun to use one meaningfull ability and spend the rest of the game doing nothing rather than actively impacting the game with dmg, cc and/or support. Each one to their own I suppose.
I tried to get Kylo in the same scenario (1v1 vs. Traya) but, even using only basics, I kill her before my team is dead.