SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • I think this would be a good addition to his leadership if you consider he is meant to be used with tanks and sith.

    If it was me, id trial him out with +35% health for all sith an empire, as like a carry over from Palpatines leadership. Then +50% crit damage and defense for sith and empire too.

    I think that would be pretty nice for him.
  • I think this would be a good addition to his leadership if you consider he is meant to be used with tanks and sith.

    If it was me, id trial him out with +35% health for all sith an empire, as like a carry over from Palpatines leadership. Then +50% crit damage and defense for sith and empire too.

    I think that would be pretty nice for him.


    Problem is they have no way to recover health as SEE only recovers the Prot of his DS allies.
    Defense would be nice, so would crit avoidance.

    But SEE really needs meaningful debuffs or ways to recover health... or actually do damage. He throws farts at his enemies and it does as much damage as it sounds like.
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    I think this would be a good addition to his leadership if you consider he is meant to be used with tanks and sith.

    If it was me, id trial him out with +35% health for all sith an empire, as like a carry over from Palpatines leadership. Then +50% crit damage and defense for sith and empire too.

    I think that would be pretty nice for him.


    Problem is they have no way to recover health as SEE only recovers the Prot of his DS allies.
    Defense would be nice, so would crit avoidance.

    But SEE really needs meaningful debuffs or ways to recover health... or actually do damage. He throws farts at his enemies and it does as much damage as it sounds like.

    Yeah see this is another thing i would change, i always thought it was weird how his ability recovers protection as all Sith rely on health. Maybe 25 an 25 or 50 an 25 health added too it.

    Defence would be super nice though, i think 50% would be a good start, and you if you added an empire tag you wouldnt need crit avoidance due to shore troopers ability.

    But yeah i agree, his debuffs basically do bugger all an his damage is super low for a GL thats where i think +50% crit damage would also come in nicely.
    No idea what to do about the whole debuff thing though.

  • Can someone explain to me how Sith revolve around Health and therefore SEE’s 50% Protection regen is bad? Besides Malak?

    I would think that a faction that contains a large amount of health recovery would benefit more from a form of protection recovery, instead of yet another health-based ability.
  • TargetEadu wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me how Sith revolve around Health and therefore SEE’s 50% Protection regen is bad? Besides Malak?

    I would think that a faction that contains a large amount of health recovery would benefit more from a form of protection recovery, instead of yet another health-based ability.

    The health recovery is most prominent if Treya or EP are leads. DR has tons of life steal and health ONLY if he's lead and has Fallen bast with him. Most often then not they need something to restore themselves so when you have treya pegging all the sith for 5% their life to remove debuffs they just dont die from it. This is most noticeable with DN and his massively stacking health. Prot recovery does jack all for him. It get's to a point where the 5% to remove just a single debuff will destroy his entire protection bar. SET and Treya put protection UP on himself / treyas target respectively which are based on THEIR HEALTH TOTALS. Treya gains prot up when any ally gets debuffed... again based on her health total.

    Now Im not saying the prot recovery is bad, and its a nice addition... but when an entire faction revolves around messing with health, and SEE is suppose to be the best of that faction... maybe he should work better with the faction he is suppose to represent. Sid worked on health. EP was about messing and restoring health when sith debuffed enemies.

    But no. his kit screws over the best two tanks (malak and sion). DN just kinda dies cause why would you use him without at least treya. DR bast and the other sith gain nothing from his lead (no dmg, health, meaningful stats).
  • RAYRAY
    2753 posts Member
    Ok, I have done some testing. I agree that SEE needs to do more to make his team mates more survivable. Here’s another idea, “when an Ally dies, all other sith allies recover full health and protection as well as 50% max health and protection of the fallen allies for the rest of the battle.” This would help make the team more stout, including palp post ultimate, for the rest of the battle as allies die. That said, I’ve been able to beat all three GLs (only single tank kylos) with this squad. The wins are never pretty and very reliant on thrawn’s fracture of the Opponent’s GL. Here is a video of a shard mate’s Rey vs my see. The battles go exactly the same way on offense.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me how Sith revolve around Health and therefore SEE’s 50% Protection regen is bad? Besides Malak?

    I would think that a faction that contains a large amount of health recovery would benefit more from a form of protection recovery, instead of yet another health-based ability.

    The health recovery is most prominent if Treya or EP are leads. DR has tons of life steal and health ONLY if he's lead and has Fallen bast with him. Most often then not they need something to restore themselves so when you have treya pegging all the sith for 5% their life to remove debuffs they just dont die from it. This is most noticeable with DN and his massively stacking health. Prot recovery does jack all for him. It get's to a point where the 5% to remove just a single debuff will destroy his entire protection bar. SET and Treya put protection UP on himself / treyas target respectively which are based on THEIR HEALTH TOTALS. Treya gains prot up when any ally gets debuffed... again based on her health total.

    Now Im not saying the prot recovery is bad, and its a nice addition... but when an entire faction revolves around messing with health, and SEE is suppose to be the best of that faction... maybe he should work better with the faction he is suppose to represent. Sid worked on health. EP was about messing and restoring health when sith debuffed enemies.

    But no. his kit screws over the best two tanks (malak and sion). DN just kinda dies cause why would you use him without at least treya. DR bast and the other sith gain nothing from his lead (no dmg, health, meaningful stats).

    So, Sith are only Health-based under the right leads. SEE is not one of those leads.

    I’d much rather have 50% Protection recovery than 50% Health recovery. Under SEE lead, it doesn’t make that big of a difference, as there’s little alternative healing in current teams. Under Traya or EP lead (has anyone tried this?), it’s much more likely to actually matter while their respective leads keep the Sith mostly topped off on health. And in both cases it helps out sooner than Health healing will.

    Malak and somewhat Nihilus are valid objections, but Malak’s always run fine with his own healing from Drain Life / Health Steal, and Nihilus is really only in danger from debuff-heavy teams that aren’t Vader (as Dots would deal 5% Health damage anyway).
  • dgree
    274 posts Member
    Jarvind wrote: »
    I have to wonder how many of these complaints can be attributed to people not choosing complementary teammates and modding him badly, as opposed to him actually being as bad as everyone wants to believe he is.

    I agree that SEE (and JKL for that matter) isn't as strong as Rey or Kylo, but mine with no ult and still missing a zeta has gotten multiple holds in GA just leading a decent Traya trio and a g12 Sith Empire Trooper, which isn't exactly squad arena material. I'd hardly relegate that to the trash bin.

    I also wonder how many of these complaints are stemming from the stupid Ahnald video of a full R7 trooper team, which most people don't have, mowing down an SEE with no tanks, which is just a garbage comp and deserves to lose on defense.
    The complaints are generally stemming from SEE users, not Ahnald videos. Some of the top Sith players with the best Sith rosters and usually amazing mods have been trying since release to make SEE not bad, but unfortunately SEE is kinda bad. GA/TW holds are nice but a lot of things get GA holds. My g11 bastila got a hold last GA round.

    The troopers counter didn't start with Ahnald and if you understand how they work, you understand they do fine against tanks.
  • dgree wrote: »
    Jarvind wrote: »
    I have to wonder how many of these complaints can be attributed to people not choosing complementary teammates and modding him badly, as opposed to him actually being as bad as everyone wants to believe he is.

    I agree that SEE (and JKL for that matter) isn't as strong as Rey or Kylo, but mine with no ult and still missing a zeta has gotten multiple holds in GA just leading a decent Traya trio and a g12 Sith Empire Trooper, which isn't exactly squad arena material. I'd hardly relegate that to the trash bin.

    I also wonder how many of these complaints are stemming from the stupid Ahnald video of a full R7 trooper team, which most people don't have, mowing down an SEE with no tanks, which is just a garbage comp and deserves to lose on defense.
    The complaints are generally stemming from SEE users, not Ahnald videos. Some of the top Sith players with the best Sith rosters and usually amazing mods have been trying since release to make SEE not bad, but unfortunately SEE is kinda bad. GA/TW holds are nice but a lot of things get GA holds. My g11 bastila got a hold last GA round.

    The troopers counter didn't start with Ahnald and if you understand how they work, you understand they do fine against tanks.

    yejkbbyx7z3g.jpg

    7.1M GP player. All my sith (except for a few older ones) are r7 with some of my best mods. I don't watch Ahnald or most of the YouTube for my own reasons (drama abuse mainly).

    I've tried thrawn in as well as some other random options like GBA ect.

    In every scenario (except fighting GML) SEE lead is far far worse then most other sith leads.. or my SLKR leading 4 sith...
  • I have also had way better results under Treya lead or palp than i have actually using SEE as the lead, its absolutely hilarious how bad he is.
    I think at this point, people need to just accept that SEE and JML both need a buff, but SEE is by far the most worst off out of all the GL's.

    And most of these complains dont stem from ahnald at all. They come from us doing our own testing and learning for ourselves how bad he actually is as a galactic legend. Ahnalds videos just help us prove a point, the more counters that come to light, the more it just literally proves how bad of a state the character is in compared to the others.

    I've been able to replicate his trooper counter for example, and i actually used Shore trooper in the squad and my troopers are not all relic 7, only 1 of them is an thats shore. The rest are all r4 and 5 an i was able to kill a ultimate r7 SEE team.
  • I have SEE and I think this is not an appropriate kit thematically. Why is part of his kit limited to Rebels and Jedi? There were no Rebels left and the Jedi order was gone. He deceived everyone, LS and DS. His kit should not limited in this way.

    As others pointed out his protection regeneration does not fit the Sith we have in game. The strategy advice is to hide him behind 3-4 Sith tanks. One of them doesn’t even have protection. And his one off 50% regeneration is inferior to other regeneration mechanics in the game.

    They should remove the faction based limitations.
  • I have SEE and I think this is not an appropriate kit thematically. Why is part of his kit limited to Rebels and Jedi? There were no Rebels left and the Jedi order was gone. He deceived everyone, LS and DS. His kit should not limited in this way.

    As others pointed out his protection regeneration does not fit the Sith we have in game. The strategy advice is to hide him behind 3-4 Sith tanks. One of them doesn’t even have protection. And his one off 50% regeneration is inferior to other regeneration mechanics in the game.

    They should remove the faction based limitations.

    Yep. I've made that point multiple times. Palpatine deceived EVERYONE. Other sith, jedi, his own empire, the FO, resistance, republic ect.

    I have no clue why he gives retribution as a buff. It seems... so out there and not fitting at all. Offense up, potency up, and penetration would have been more sith like. They know when and how to strike to be effective. Sow Discord should hit any enemy. Deceive should do more then a **** daze. Make deceived targets also suffer -50% defense and evasion or something. SEE knows the enemies weakness, why wouldnt he be able to exploit it? hence the -defense.

    He should be un-targetable, period, while any sith ally is alive... its so stupid how mothma is harder to get to then SEE.

    Remove that god aweful "allies cant revive" line... why is that even there?!?!

    And he shouldnt feel weaker when he ults... ffs dont remove his regen when he ults. move it to his basic or something and lower its effect.. like 5-10% or something.

    There's many ways to make him feel... impactful... and cg just gave us a gutted kit
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    Palpatine deceived EVERYONE.

    I guess he deceived the players too.
    9 movies and you still didn't get it ?
  • Sewpot
    1432 posts Member
    If you look at all the first characters released they almost show a favour towards characters.

    Sid- horrible, palp -little less then horrible ,SEE-horrible
    Kylo-not bad. Kru-better. SLKR- fantastic
    Scavenger-not the best but not terrible. Rjt- better Rey- great
    Farm boy- haha CLS- fantastic, JKL-epic! Jml-middle road

    Now the problem I have is investing. The amount of investment to get those 4 GL is massive to say the least.
    For that investment I would expect all GL to be on a level of SLKR for attacking and level of rey for defence. Those kits you devs got right (after a few tweaks)
    These new GLs definitely are going to get more work done I don’t doubt that.
    You made the fear debuff so overpowered that you struggle to come up with anything as good anymore in these new kits.

    SEE is all about hiding in the shadows. Yes he’s a leader but should work as a side even better. Let another sith stand in lead while he controls from the back. Their is your deception. So a possible semi leader role. So you could have a sith leader and SEE helps from the back like having 1 1/2 leader abilities.
    Rey and Luke are the most all around attractive for keeping your team alive. When you are fighting for banners all lives matter.
    Kylo is a one man army and SEE is barley that.
    I have SEE and will have Luke done end of November.
    Didn’t feel the need to rush these last 2 for very obvious reasons.
    Personally so not impressed by SEE that I look more forward to mod material now then playing with this new character.
    I was way more excited unlocking Rey and kylo.
    Definitely a step back

  • Yeah i dont know what they thouht when giving him his kit, but it clearly isnt working for him. Obviously they should of tested it for a longer period of time or something instead of rushing the GLs out.
  • SEE can solo almost any non-GL team.

    He is in a much better place than Luke who can’t kill a solo Malak.
  • Eweff
    311 posts Member
    SEE can solo almost any non-GL team.

    He is in a much better place than Luke who can’t kill a solo Malak.

    A malak with DR lead and three charges you mean.

    Also, that first part is false. Unless you aren’t counting padme, Vader, GEOs, imperial troops, etc
  • SEE can solo almost any non-GL team.

    He is in a much better place than Luke who can’t kill a solo Malak.

    You got some proof for that? Because I have a hard time believing all these teams can beat a full sith team with SEE yet SEE can solo them.
  • VelvetDiamond_R6
    72 posts Member
    edited October 25
    Yeah, thats completely false, SEE is in a much worse position than Luke. I think they both needs Buffs, but SEE is a lot worse off. Currently there are like 5 F2P counters an he can get solo'd by Kylo.
  • Sith Eternal Emperor is much worse off than Jedi Master Luke. End of subject really.
    If you are saying otherwise at this point then clearly you have no clue what you are talking about or have never been on youtube before or you clearly do not own him.

    Both need rework yes.
    Emperor is much worse!
  • Ahnald soloed a Padme team with SEE. With GAS as a 5th, for reference.

    It wasn’t a pretty battle but it happened.
  • Eweff
    311 posts Member
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Ahnald soloed a Padme team with SEE. With GAS as a 5th, for reference.

    It wasn’t a pretty battle but it happened.

    And padme can beat SEE. SEE does not seem to be GL powerlevel. He’s on par with legendary characters like DR.
  • Eweff wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Ahnald soloed a Padme team with SEE. With GAS as a 5th, for reference.

    It wasn’t a pretty battle but it happened.

    And padme can beat SEE. SEE does not seem to be GL powerlevel. He’s on par with legendary characters like DR.

    SEE is by far more like a legendary character, i wouldnt class him as a GL at all, you're right.
  • Eweff wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Ahnald soloed a Padme team with SEE. With GAS as a 5th, for reference.

    It wasn’t a pretty battle but it happened.

    And padme can beat SEE. SEE does not seem to be GL powerlevel. He’s on par with legendary characters like DR.

    Yep. He's no galactic legend. Heck... he's worse then old EP. At least with ep I get 2 useful debuffs (shock and stun), crazy TM gain, and offense up.
  • I just watched today 2 videos: one where nighsisters beat SEE. Another one where Padme beats SEE

    I ve never seen a GL squad being beaten by so many teams
  • I just watched today 2 videos: one where nighsisters beat SEE. Another one where Padme beats SEE

    I ve never seen a GL squad being beaten by so many teams

    Nightsisters can do it? Haven't heard of that one yet.
  • I just watched today 2 videos: one where nighsisters beat SEE. Another one where Padme beats SEE

    I ve never seen a GL squad being beaten by so many teams

    Oh ffs, another team.. seriously. This is just a joke now, an utter joke.


    CG!! DO SOMETHING!
  • Kyno
    26614 posts Moderator
    I just watched today 2 videos: one where nighsisters beat SEE. Another one where Padme beats SEE

    I ve never seen a GL squad being beaten by so many teams

    Oh ffs, another team.. seriously. This is just a joke now, an utter joke.


    CG!! DO SOMETHING!

    Maybe post the video, they are not likely to take action without some proof that it is not a situational defeat.

    Again, mods and team composition....without that visible, there will always be questions.
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