"A_HighCommand
Live QA (Bugs and Issues)
31m
After checking with the team it was working the same way before the update, meaning SEE wasn't gaining any Protection from enemies with 0 max Protection.
As for the issue with "Deceived" not spreading when SEE is transformed into his ultimate, we have already flagged this as a bug."
Above is a copy paste from reddit. Looks like there is a bug with deceived. Not sure how much this bug fix will help though.
yeah i forgot to come back and reply to that one. I dont see it being a match changing fix, its only not spreading if you have the omega and after ultimate transformation.
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
I don't usually post on the forums, in fact, I rarely even check the forums outside of when we get updates. With that said, I felt compelled to post about SEE because honestly I am insanely disappointed with spending a single cent to unlock this toon.
I'll preface this by saying that SEE is not a weak toon. In fact, if I had to rank him, I would place him somewhere around JKL level. His ability to destroy jedis is impressive. With that said, that feels rather unacceptable for a toon that is not a legendary but is instead a GL. He doesn't feel like a GL. But unlike JKL, who can get slotted behind JML or Rey, I can't place SEE behind SLKR, and so I am stuck with a toon I rarely use in arena. A toon I won't use in raids. A toon who adds nothing to my DSTB roster (I was already getting 4/4 with Trium + Malak and 4/4 with DR+SE). A crap ton of resources for a toon that is not at the very top. That ignores the plethora of poor toons we were forced to farm and relic (looking at Sidious, RG, Maul, Tarkin...who at least has a cap ship...etc.). That wouldn't be a problem if SEE was at least sitting properly near the top, like the other 3 GL. Instead, it feels like I threw resources at a black hole.
Now, on to the issues with SEE.
1) He has very limited synergy with the other sith toons. This is a multifold issue. The main problems being that enemy toons need to take a turn/action to help charge his ult (a). But there are other issues included in this lack of synergy (b)-(c).
a1) The SE toons focus heavily on control with the fear debuff. That means using them on the team makes charging the ult a slow, arduous process. That wouldn't be a problem if the team could do damage, but they don't hit hard enough under SEE lead (unless you're fighting JML due to the immense anti-jedi synergy). So maybe a small fix here would be adding ult charge when enemies take a turn? That would at least help get him to ult before the battle is lost.
a2) The Trium toons (and Malak) focus heavily on crit based damage on their unique. Sion gets to HoH from this, Traya stacks damage, Malak gives fear. Unfortunately, linking an enemy means they won't crit, preventing boosts for your team. Maybe a fix here would be that link decreases crit damage instead? If critting still happened but instead did marginally more damage than a standard attack, that in itself would help the team a ton.
a3) Deceived prevents counters which prevents enemies from using abilities which slows the ult charge down. I think this could get coupled with a2 in that you could decrease the damage done or something. But again, SEE needs all the help he can get when it comes to charging his ult and Deceived actively works to slow that charge down.
b) The fact he prevents sith from reviving. I mean this one is self-explanatory and confusing. Why? GAS lead, SLKR unique, Rey WW, etc., already prevent revives? Why further weaken the toon by amplifying that? Sion already isn't the strongest of tanks so preventing revives makes him even more mediocre.
c) The focus on protection recovery. Almost all sith toons have very heavy duty health based synergy. Savage has HoT, Sid and Maul gain max health, Vader heals from dots, Traya bonus protection is based on max health, DN unique, HoH revive, DR, SiM, and BSF unique, and Malak's everything. So while the protection recovery isn't necessarily bad per se, if you decreased the protection recovery and added health recovery to that ability, it would be better.
2) His ult transformation is a wasted turn. Self-explanatory. If he took a bonus turn or auto used an ability or anything, it would be much better. In the wasted time that you transform, SLKR and co have pounded your team to dust and gained yet another ult, Rey and co have taken multiple turns and gained yet another ult. Even JML ult has more oomph to it, with the cleansing and the boosting of his team. SEE just transforms and leaves his allies (if any are even still alive) out to die and power up the enemy.
3) His anti-jedi synergy, while incredible, leaves him in a very niche position. If I was told in the developer insight or while farming that his whole shtick was to be a JML counter, I would not have spent the resources on him. Currently, that's all his kit is. A powerhouse vs JML but lacking elsewhere. I imagine if you just halved or 1/4 the boosts he gets vs jedi's vs everyone else, that would go a long way. I don't get why sow discord doesn't passively apply to DS enemies too. That definitely leaves him in a hole. That's a lesser complaint but noticeable.
4) Link. I've already referenced the preventing crit issues (see a2) but the other problems with link include the fact that you are forced to link a taunt (who you will likely kill shortly) and the fact the link goes away once you've killed said tank. Further, the fact that link effects don't do much vs other GL mean that SLKR and Rey are still taking your team to pound town. Again, this is something that works amazingly vs JML, but is rather worthless vs other comps. I personally think the link turns should ignore taunt and that the link effects should allow crits but decrease crit damage AND should also apply to GL.
This is not an exhaustive list, just what I've noticed while using him. I honestly haven't used him much because of how unimpressive he is. When I unlocked SLKR I immediately felt what the toon could do. SEE by comparison has made me want to drop the game and ask for a refund. I know the CG team worked hard making this toon, it just feels like the testing wasn't there tbh. When I use him vs JML I can see what the team meant in designing him. But vs anyone else he is just so underwhelming or downright worthless. I didn't farm him so he could be the +1 to my Vader-GL counter teams . I just hope this at least helps you all pinpoint some of the problems so you can improve him.
Thanks for reading.
@CG_SBCrumb@CG_Doja_Fett This is a well written post by a concerned player. It summarizes key issues with SEE and suggests solutions. Please take note.
@ChemDaik well said. Good run down of various glaring issues in his kit preventing him from living up to his theme (which was an interesting idea in theory, but the "gradually building mastery and later becoming a beast attacker" thing is something SLKR is much better at on top of being a better DS leader in general and murdering the enemy team right from the start).
Re Sion revival: preventing Sith revives is to prevent Sion from dying with held by hatred, feeding ultimate SEE protection, and reviving against, I suppose, weak enemies that let Sion get to that point. I guess the idea of ultimate SEE regenerating any of his protection was considered too strong.
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
Sorry when we were talking about SEE vs Kylo, it was mentioned that due to his Kit and See's anti-rebels and anti-jedi design, it would be difficult to counter Kylo. After his Kit was released with strange specs like protection restore etc it became obvious that SEE may have vulnerabilities due to his kit and wouldn't good enough for arena where till now 50 % includes Kylo. I' absolutely sure that Devs made some tests with him and saw that Rey/Kylo ultimate annihilate almost all allies. Maybe GA/TW banners were not taken into account.
Before we had soft counters and hard counters system, i play seems from 2016, now we have rock scissors paper system. Due to data from swgoh SEE has the least number who hold top positions, data was shown today, Only 14 % of See takes top. this number far more less if we compare with Kylo,Rey, JML.
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
Sorry when we were talking about SEE vs Kylo, it was mentioned that due to his Kit and See's anti-rebels and anti-jedi design, it would be difficult to counter Kylo. After his Kit was released with strange specs like protection restore etc it became obvious that SEE may have vulnerabilities due to his kit and wouldn't good enough for arena where till now 50 % includes Kylo. I' absolutely sure that Devs made some tests with him and saw that Rey/Kylo ultimate annihilate almost all allies. Maybe GA/TW banners were not taken into account.
Before we had soft counters and hard counters system, i play seems from 2016, now we have rock scissors paper system. Due to data from swgoh SEE has the least number who hold top positions, data was shown today, Only 14 % of See takes top. this number far more less if we compare with Kylo,Rey, JML.
ok, but none of that is answering my questions or proving any of this:
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
It’s very simple - if you want data, I can run custom workflow in a platform like alteryx to scrape data across maybe a hundred or so different combats. Consolidate the data and then have something that shows, across all 4 GL’s - basic KPI’s - damage dealt on basic, ultimate, time to ultimate, team members dead etc.
But this is something the dev team can easily pull from the backend.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
Very good point. And yes it took 2-3 months for SLKR to get his buffs. So maybe we are a little over 1 month out now from SEE getting a buff?
Maybe it would make for a nice Christmas gift.
I wonder if there's anything the devs can do to make SEE a little bit more viable in PvE, sith raid. Not like SLKR level able to solo the whole thing, but being able to use SEE to get 10-20m on a phase would be nice
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Looking at these numbers you can pretty much figure out what’s going on.
Slkr stands alone as leader always.
JKR being 3rd just shows me he’s got either rey or Luke on his team.same with padamé and Bastila,and JKL.
Drevan and Vader definitely don’t have SEE on those teams.
So that 153 is all you get. And is that don’t field him long.
I do feel like I have a rare character because the numbers will be so low for so long.
Taking into consideration of how fast we got these 2 new GL. If that’s something of a cadence I’m rare and will remain rare for a long time lol!!!
Thx!!
I don't usually post on the forums, in fact, I rarely even check the forums outside of when we get updates. With that said, I felt compelled to post about SEE because honestly I am insanely disappointed with spending a single cent to unlock this toon.
I'll preface this by saying that SEE is not a weak toon. In fact, if I had to rank him, I would place him somewhere around JKL level. His ability to destroy jedis is impressive. With that said, that feels rather unacceptable for a toon that is not a legendary but is instead a GL. He doesn't feel like a GL. But unlike JKL, who can get slotted behind JML or Rey, I can't place SEE behind SLKR, and so I am stuck with a toon I rarely use in arena. A toon I won't use in raids. A toon who adds nothing to my DSTB roster (I was already getting 4/4 with Trium + Malak and 4/4 with DR+SE). A crap ton of resources for a toon that is not at the very top. That ignores the plethora of poor toons we were forced to farm and relic (looking at Sidious, RG, Maul, Tarkin...who at least has a cap ship...etc.). That wouldn't be a problem if SEE was at least sitting properly near the top, like the other 3 GL. Instead, it feels like I threw resources at a black hole.
Now, on to the issues with SEE.
1) He has very limited synergy with the other sith toons. This is a multifold issue. The main problems being that enemy toons need to take a turn/action to help charge his ult (a). But there are other issues included in this lack of synergy (b)-(c).
a1) The SE toons focus heavily on control with the fear debuff. That means using them on the team makes charging the ult a slow, arduous process. That wouldn't be a problem if the team could do damage, but they don't hit hard enough under SEE lead (unless you're fighting JML due to the immense anti-jedi synergy). So maybe a small fix here would be adding ult charge when enemies take a turn? That would at least help get him to ult before the battle is lost.
a2) The Trium toons (and Malak) focus heavily on crit based damage on their unique. Sion gets to HoH from this, Traya stacks damage, Malak gives fear. Unfortunately, linking an enemy means they won't crit, preventing boosts for your team. Maybe a fix here would be that link decreases crit damage instead? If critting still happened but instead did marginally more damage than a standard attack, that in itself would help the team a ton.
a3) Deceived prevents counters which prevents enemies from using abilities which slows the ult charge down. I think this could get coupled with a2 in that you could decrease the damage done or something. But again, SEE needs all the help he can get when it comes to charging his ult and Deceived actively works to slow that charge down.
b) The fact he prevents sith from reviving. I mean this one is self-explanatory and confusing. Why? GAS lead, SLKR unique, Rey WW, etc., already prevent revives? Why further weaken the toon by amplifying that? Sion already isn't the strongest of tanks so preventing revives makes him even more mediocre.
c) The focus on protection recovery. Almost all sith toons have very heavy duty health based synergy. Savage has HoT, Sid and Maul gain max health, Vader heals from dots, Traya bonus protection is based on max health, DN unique, HoH revive, DR, SiM, and BSF unique, and Malak's everything. So while the protection recovery isn't necessarily bad per se, if you decreased the protection recovery and added health recovery to that ability, it would be better.
2) His ult transformation is a wasted turn. Self-explanatory. If he took a bonus turn or auto used an ability or anything, it would be much better. In the wasted time that you transform, SLKR and co have pounded your team to dust and gained yet another ult, Rey and co have taken multiple turns and gained yet another ult. Even JML ult has more oomph to it, with the cleansing and the boosting of his team. SEE just transforms and leaves his allies (if any are even still alive) out to die and power up the enemy.
3) His anti-jedi synergy, while incredible, leaves him in a very niche position. If I was told in the developer insight or while farming that his whole shtick was to be a JML counter, I would not have spent the resources on him. Currently, that's all his kit is. A powerhouse vs JML but lacking elsewhere. I imagine if you just halved or 1/4 the boosts he gets vs jedi's vs everyone else, that would go a long way. I don't get why sow discord doesn't passively apply to DS enemies too. That definitely leaves him in a hole. That's a lesser complaint but noticeable.
4) Link. I've already referenced the preventing crit issues (see a2) but the other problems with link include the fact that you are forced to link a taunt (who you will likely kill shortly) and the fact the link goes away once you've killed said tank. Further, the fact that link effects don't do much vs other GL mean that SLKR and Rey are still taking your team to pound town. Again, this is something that works amazingly vs JML, but is rather worthless vs other comps. I personally think the link turns should ignore taunt and that the link effects should allow crits but decrease crit damage AND should also apply to GL.
This is not an exhaustive list, just what I've noticed while using him. I honestly haven't used him much because of how unimpressive he is. When I unlocked SLKR I immediately felt what the toon could do. SEE by comparison has made me want to drop the game and ask for a refund. I know the CG team worked hard making this toon, it just feels like the testing wasn't there tbh. When I use him vs JML I can see what the team meant in designing him. But vs anyone else he is just so underwhelming or downright worthless. I didn't farm him so he could be the +1 to my Vader-GL counter teams . I just hope this at least helps you all pinpoint some of the problems so you can improve him.
Thanks for reading.
I created an account purely to bring attention to this post. This is a fantastic breakdown and worth reading.
The only thing I would add is we understand SEE is not and should not be invincible. We are okay with SLKR being a hard counter and we understand there are going to be F2P counters.
The problem isn’t that SEE loses it’s how SEE loses. Yes SLKR can be beaten by clones, but he isn’t beaten before taking a turn as is the case with SEE and Imperial Troopers. SLKR being a counter to SEE is fantastic game balancing mechanic. Having him solo SEE is a step too far. This matters.
People should feel like which ever GL they go for they are playing with the best Galaxy of Hero’s has to offer. I don’t think a single SEE owner agrees SEE is up to that level.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
1) most people would have started farming for SEE before they got the kit, and 2) the largest issue I’ve seen isn’t his kit but his lackluster Damage.
And should any GL feel like a burden on your roster? At all? Sure, people might regret getting Rey over SLKR, but overall Rey’s a fantastic character.
@Kyno some time ago we received answer that to change SEE's kit we need valid reason, some fixes and bugs definitely will be done. Due to his kit See seems to be weak, please just compare Kylo has immense damage, Rey has immunity to damage and her damage is good enough, JML and his powerful allies, released quite not long ago perform good with millions of buffs and protection. When players have shown videos with Kylo soloing SEE, it was referred to rock, scissors, paper. From my opinion one Gl of the "same power level" soloing another Gl just create bad reputation for the toon, look we are not talking about Malak vs Ewoks or smth like that, we are talking about GLs of the same power level. And even this fact wasn't highlighted, as it's occurred 1vs5 of the same power level is not the valid reason to change his kit,
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
Unfortunately SEE isn’t in the same league as the other GLs. He’s garbage. And cannot beat a SLKR double tank no matter what team comp. his damage output is just way too low and doesn’t scale. You’ll end up in a 1v1 and lose. Everytime. His character synergy doesn’t feel right. Doesn’t enhance who he’s paired up with. And can be beaten by a ton of non gl teams.
I honestly feel let down and wish I hadn’t geared the characters required before I saw some gameplay. He needs looking at
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
Kit reveal stated him dealing "tons of damage" IIRC.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Most people would probably have started working on the requisites long before the kit was revealed, so I find that to be a pretty outrageous sentiment. Considering how intricate these GL kits are its also nigh impossible to gague just how effective the characters will be in game. Are you suggesting we should refrain from unlocking a character with a dubious kit and not try them out for ourself just to make a point?
I mean, his Ult does do tons of damage... against Decieved Light Side enemies. But people just use DS against him, and thanks to the Sow Discord bug LS can still escape that damage often.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
Kyno some time ago we received answer that to change SEE's kit we need valid reason, some fixes and bugs definitely will be done. Due to his kit See seems to be weak, please just compare Kylo has immense damage, Rey has immunity to damage and her damage is good enough, JML and his powerful allies, released quite not long ago perform good with millions of buffs and protection. When players have shown videos with Kylo soloing SEE, it was referred to rock, scissors, paper. From my opinion one Gl of the "same power level" soloing another Gl just create bad reputation for the toon, look we are not talking about Malak vs Ewoks or smth like that, we are talking about GLs of the same power level. And even this fact wasn't highlighted, as it's occurred 1vs5 of the same power level is not the valid reason to change his kit,
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
still not answering the above questions.
They have stated they are keeping an eye on things. so there is some level of "not ok" with the current situation out there.
you are right we are not talking about malak or ewoks....which is probably why a GL beating another GL is not super concerning right off the bat. They have kind of given the impression that GL vs GL is the intended goal with GLs, so just because one can do it 1v5 doesnt raise a red flag for immediate action. but also doesn't mean it will not be addressed either.
The reason SLKR and other direct changes to new characters dont happen right away, unless for a bug or exploit, is they want to gather all the data, they dont want to make multiple rounds of changes if they can avoid it.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
but all the points they brought up are visible in the kit and have nothing to do with his power. so thats my point.
They want us to spend money on toons that under perform that are the most expensive toons in the game. When mop up squads can beat them you know it’s a bad kit.
Replies
yeah i forgot to come back and reply to that one. I dont see it being a match changing fix, its only not spreading if you have the omega and after ultimate transformation.
@CG_SBCrumb @CG_Doja_Fett This is a well written post by a concerned player. It summarizes key issues with SEE and suggests solutions. Please take note.
@ChemDaik well said. Good run down of various glaring issues in his kit preventing him from living up to his theme (which was an interesting idea in theory, but the "gradually building mastery and later becoming a beast attacker" thing is something SLKR is much better at on top of being a better DS leader in general and murdering the enemy team right from the start).
Re Sion revival: preventing Sith revives is to prevent Sion from dying with held by hatred, feeding ultimate SEE protection, and reviving against, I suppose, weak enemies that let Sion get to that point. I guess the idea of ultimate SEE regenerating any of his protection was considered too strong.
Also, @MolBettaBlu: yep.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
If only there was some sort of sandbox to test this stuff out.
Sorry when we were talking about SEE vs Kylo, it was mentioned that due to his Kit and See's anti-rebels and anti-jedi design, it would be difficult to counter Kylo. After his Kit was released with strange specs like protection restore etc it became obvious that SEE may have vulnerabilities due to his kit and wouldn't good enough for arena where till now 50 % includes Kylo. I' absolutely sure that Devs made some tests with him and saw that Rey/Kylo ultimate annihilate almost all allies. Maybe GA/TW banners were not taken into account.
Before we had soft counters and hard counters system, i play seems from 2016, now we have rock scissors paper system. Due to data from swgoh SEE has the least number who hold top positions, data was shown today, Only 14 % of See takes top. this number far more less if we compare with Kylo,Rey, JML.
ok, but none of that is answering my questions or proving any of this:
But this is something the dev team can easily pull from the backend.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
Very good point. And yes it took 2-3 months for SLKR to get his buffs. So maybe we are a little over 1 month out now from SEE getting a buff?
Maybe it would make for a nice Christmas gift.
I wonder if there's anything the devs can do to make SEE a little bit more viable in PvE, sith raid. Not like SLKR level able to solo the whole thing, but being able to use SEE to get 10-20m on a phase would be nice
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Looking at these numbers you can pretty much figure out what’s going on.
Slkr stands alone as leader always.
JKR being 3rd just shows me he’s got either rey or Luke on his team.same with padamé and Bastila,and JKL.
Drevan and Vader definitely don’t have SEE on those teams.
So that 153 is all you get. And is that don’t field him long.
I do feel like I have a rare character because the numbers will be so low for so long.
Taking into consideration of how fast we got these 2 new GL. If that’s something of a cadence I’m rare and will remain rare for a long time lol!!!
Thx!!
I created an account purely to bring attention to this post. This is a fantastic breakdown and worth reading.
The only thing I would add is we understand SEE is not and should not be invincible. We are okay with SLKR being a hard counter and we understand there are going to be F2P counters.
The problem isn’t that SEE loses it’s how SEE loses. Yes SLKR can be beaten by clones, but he isn’t beaten before taking a turn as is the case with SEE and Imperial Troopers. SLKR being a counter to SEE is fantastic game balancing mechanic. Having him solo SEE is a step too far. This matters.
People should feel like which ever GL they go for they are playing with the best Galaxy of Hero’s has to offer. I don’t think a single SEE owner agrees SEE is up to that level.
oh please.. multiple SEEs damage by 1,000 and his kit is absolutely great. Reading the kit does not imply if he will be weak, on par or overpowered.
1) most people would have started farming for SEE before they got the kit, and 2) the largest issue I’ve seen isn’t his kit but his lackluster Damage.
And should any GL feel like a burden on your roster? At all? Sure, people might regret getting Rey over SLKR, but overall Rey’s a fantastic character.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I honestly feel let down and wish I hadn’t geared the characters required before I saw some gameplay. He needs looking at
Kit reveal stated him dealing "tons of damage" IIRC.
Most people would probably have started working on the requisites long before the kit was revealed, so I find that to be a pretty outrageous sentiment. Considering how intricate these GL kits are its also nigh impossible to gague just how effective the characters will be in game. Are you suggesting we should refrain from unlocking a character with a dubious kit and not try them out for ourself just to make a point?
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
still not answering the above questions.
They have stated they are keeping an eye on things. so there is some level of "not ok" with the current situation out there.
you are right we are not talking about malak or ewoks....which is probably why a GL beating another GL is not super concerning right off the bat. They have kind of given the impression that GL vs GL is the intended goal with GLs, so just because one can do it 1v5 doesnt raise a red flag for immediate action. but also doesn't mean it will not be addressed either.
The reason SLKR and other direct changes to new characters dont happen right away, unless for a bug or exploit, is they want to gather all the data, they dont want to make multiple rounds of changes if they can avoid it.
but all the points they brought up are visible in the kit and have nothing to do with his power. so thats my point.