SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • So... since we are buffing (if) SEE, are we also buffing Rey for being auto'ed by mothma? :thinking:
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just watched today 2 videos: one where nighsisters beat SEE. Another one where Padme beats SEE

    I ve never seen a GL squad being beaten by so many teams

    Oh ffs, another team.. seriously. This is just a joke now, an utter joke.


    CG!! DO SOMETHING!

    Maybe post the video, they are not likely to take action without some proof that it is not a situational defeat.

    Again, mods and team composition....without that visible, there will always be questions.



    I know, SEE doesnt have ult, and if he gets it its most likely gonna wipe the NS clean. But as you can see SEE is forced to link zombie, who keeps dying shortly after, which completely cripples his ult gain. The AI also keeps targetting the linked target (in this case Talzin) which doesnt help either.

    Without Traya lead you dont get that constant healing, which allows plague to nullify Trayas unique, and without Drevan lead you wont see that crazy dmg and deathmark which is what used to shut down NS. Think its worth keeping an eye on at the very least.

    It also seems like sow discord is not maxed, on top of the ultimate, unless I'm missing something

    @1:24 a deceived zombie doesnt spread deceived when using an ability.

    So it seems a little bit like there is more upgrading that could have been done there.

    Also a little luck with AV and daka always being left out of big MM attacks, but maybe vader will always act like that.

    To be fair, Deceived doesnt do anything against NS, unless you meam those 2% ult charges will be a gamechanger. Since the NS keep dying deceived will disappear regardless. Assajj getting killed wouldnt matter since Daka will just revive her, so as long as Daka doent get focused youre fine and the longer the game goes on the harder it will be for Vader to put her down even when he focus her.

    in that match, there was always at least 2 NS alive, meaning deceived would keep spreading, so yes it would do something, and yes it would help with the charge if they had the ultimate.

    yeah, thats what i mean it seemed a little luck was there as Daka was never really hit, and had she been taken down, might have been a different story. but i'm not saying thats enough for a GL to be riding on that luck. just making observations.

    What Im saying is that Deceived, aside from that 2% ult charge, has no effect on NS. All it does against them is prevent counter attacks which from what Im aware of NS dont do that much.

    for a toon that is designed to have an ultimate, charging it is very important. so is having it. so in the end it will be important, and this video is showing a match against a "favorable" target. it would be nice to see it against a fully upgraded ult SEE. where a true comparison can be made.

    I counted the abilities after 1:24 (including Talzins mass assist but not the assists from her leadership since dead NS wont have deceived) and assumed every living NS will be permanently deceived (which in reality they wont) and by my calculation, including the extra 8% from linked targets, SEE would have gotten his ult the same turn Assajj killed him. Youre free to correct me if Im wrong, but even withing the margin of error SEEs team will be long dead and he beaten up before he gets his ult, and then he needs to take another turn to actually use his AoE.
  • dgree
    382 posts Member
    SEE's main problem isn't the host of teams that can beat him on defense, it's that he's weak and struggles to contribute much (if anything) on offense.

    Granted, some people might just be mad that "weak" squads are beating SEE. But one could also just see all these examples as reflective of all the things in SEE's kit and mechanics that doom him to be bad.
  • Starslayer
    477 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Montanz wrote: »
    This game can feel brutally unfair sometimes. I will never forget the outrage I felt about SLKR getting buffed AND being able to solo the sith raid. I’m not worried about the two new GLs, they will most likely get buffs. I just hope the buffs make them sith raid viable.

    Atleast open up the sith raid for another GL to solo so we aren’t forced into going back for SLKR to get gear from an outdated raid. I don’t care if they suck in arena. There will be counters regardless. JUST MAKE ONE OF THEM RAID VIABLE!!!
    he was obviously the PvE champ from the minute we saw his kit.

    So many changes being possible once kits hit the hard reality of thousands of players tearing those kits apart with countless fights, there is no 'obviously' in kit reveal imo ;)

  • VelvetDiamond_R6
    72 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Yeah, the weak counter squads are just part of it. Clearly its extremely silly that squads like Troopers an Sith an destroy him without him getting close to an Ultimate.
    It really doesnt help that even if you want to do something on offense with him you have to basically sacrifice your entire team just to get an Ultimate off. Assuming you can considering how fast him an his team gets killed off.
    No matter how you use him, or what comp you use him with, you're only ever going to get 1 use basically. It's really dumb. Everyone just flat out falls apart an drops to the ground. He really has no use with his leadership, he works better under Treya or Vader lead, an i believe doing that you wont get to use his ultimate 99% of the time.


    He's overall just defensively an offensively very weak, he genuinely needs quite a bit of work doing too him to put him inline with the other GL's.
    Even though Luke has issues and also needs a slight buff, SEE is most worse off right now.
  • Kyno
    27456 posts Moderator
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Montanz wrote: »
    This game can feel brutally unfair sometimes. I will never forget the outrage I felt about SLKR getting buffed AND being able to solo the sith raid. I’m not worried about the two new GLs, they will most likely get buffs. I just hope the buffs make them sith raid viable.

    Atleast open up the sith raid for another GL to solo so we aren’t forced into going back for SLKR to get gear from an outdated raid. I don’t care if they suck in arena. There will be counters regardless. JUST MAKE ONE OF THEM RAID VIABLE!!!
    he was obviously the PvE champ from the minute we saw his kit.

    So many changes being possible once kits hit the hard reality of thousands of players tearing those kits apart with countless fights, there is no 'obviously' in kit reveal imo ;)

    this was expressed by many players from the onset, but I guess you are right nothing is obvious.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Montanz wrote: »
    This game can feel brutally unfair sometimes. I will never forget the outrage I felt about SLKR getting buffed AND being able to solo the sith raid. I’m not worried about the two new GLs, they will most likely get buffs. I just hope the buffs make them sith raid viable.

    Atleast open up the sith raid for another GL to solo so we aren’t forced into going back for SLKR to get gear from an outdated raid. I don’t care if they suck in arena. There will be counters regardless. JUST MAKE ONE OF THEM RAID VIABLE!!!
    he was obviously the PvE champ from the minute we saw his kit.

    So many changes being possible once kits hit the hard reality of thousands of players tearing those kits apart with countless fights, there is no 'obviously' in kit reveal imo ;)

    this was expressed by many players from the onset, but I guess you are right nothing is obvious.

    Obviously
  • Kyno
    27456 posts Moderator
    Eweff wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno, apologies. Lets keep this back on topic.

    I just feel as all this effort farming these horrible characters for him were for nothing right now, just a bit angry he has like 6 or 7 counters or more. God knows, i lost track now.

    He should not be so easy to kill, nor should his team.

    I agree they should keep an eye on this.

    GEOS - do you have a video?

    NS - There seems to be some upgrades missing on that SEE, unless I missed something.


    The main reason I said what I said, was if somehow getting the ultimate upgraded means that 4 of these counters go away, then it's not fair to say he should be buffed based on his non ultimate situation.

    They are designed to have the ultimate, it's not fair to look at them without it (when looking for changes to be made), when it's one of the major parts of their design.

    Weren’t you arguing earlier that GLs under other leads could be viable? But SEE and JML won’t get their ultimates under other leads.

    Sorry missed this one.

    Yes I did say something like that in another thread, and it was a discussion about, them being designed to be in that spot, but you will have the options to trade off the ultimate's to some extent and use them elsewhere. if someone was using them not in the leader spot and calling them trash, I would say the same thing you just quoted. that doesn't mean they will not have teams where they can be not be in the lead and still make a good team, just maybe more situational.

    either way, judging a team/toon not really as they were designed, is never that helpful.
    i.e. - how are nightsisters, under Ashoka lead?
  • Sithlords_Inc
    174 posts Member
    edited October 2020


    I think SEEs dmg numbers really should be taken a look at. In the video SEE uses an offense set, yet his AoE deals less than 50k dmg (about 100k had Rey been deceived) and his basic does 60k when Rey IS deceived, meaning it does 150% more dmg than it would against non-deceived and dark side enemies. Considering it has a 20 turn cd, that you have to wait for you ult and then wait another turn to use it AND that you sacrifice a 50% protection recovery with a 3 turn CD that is beyond abyssmal.
  • TVF
    26705 posts Member
    Don't be sorry, that's why the forums are here lol.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • He really does has very low damage output, even under a vader 30% offense you only get around 5 to 8k more damage. His output is horrible.
  • I completely agree with this.


    I think his main issues stem from his leader bonuses. That and he virtually has no damage output what so ever on his basic an special.


    My idea to make his leadership better is to add +35% health to all Sith and Empire allies or Protection.
    Along with +50% Critical damage to all Sith and Empire allies, and +50% Defence to all Sith and Empire allies.

    I think this would help a great deal in keeping his team more in the game.
  • ThatSithLordJarJar
    6 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Im not sure how much of a difference 50% defense would make. Very little I think no?
    I think maybe some critical avoidance or maybe add to "deceived" that any character deceived can not critically hit any of his allies.
  • Kyno
    27456 posts Moderator
    just an FYI,
    vouyta2gzzf2.png
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/236976/so-gl-s-can-be-underdogged-now#latest

    Doja confirmed they are keeping an eye on things. so as I have been saying providing videos and evidence (detailed breakdowns are a nice touch too) of things goes a long way, much more than just declaring he is trash.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    just an FYI,
    vouyta2gzzf2.png
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/236976/so-gl-s-can-be-underdogged-now#latest

    Doja confirmed they are keeping an eye on things. so as I have been saying providing videos and evidence (detailed breakdowns are a nice touch too) of things goes a long way, much more than just declaring he is trash.

    This is good to know that its being watched

  • I think SEEs dmg numbers really should be taken a look at. In the video SEE uses an offense set, yet his AoE deals less than 50k dmg (about 100k had Rey been deceived) and his basic does 60k when Rey IS deceived, meaning it does 150% more dmg than it would against non-deceived and dark side enemies. Considering it has a 20 turn cd, that you have to wait for you ult and then wait another turn to use it AND that you sacrifice a 50% protection recovery with a 3 turn CD that is beyond abyssmal.

    That’s against Rey’s 30% Damage Reduction as well. So against any non-GL those hits become a 78k Basic and a 65k (possibly doubled) AoE.

    Are those phenomenal numbers? No, but it bears consideration.

    Also, with all his stacking Crit Chance he might get more damage done with a Crit Damage set.
  • OK so, over the past few days I have been following the whole Galactic Legend scenario an thought nothing of it, thought maybe every one was moaning about nothing.
    But as of last night I unlocked my Ultimate for SEE myself and began testing it with a group of friends from shard chat.
    After a full day of testing him, along side others testing teams against him, I have concluded I really wish I went for any of the other three GL's over him!
    Yes my friends, he needs a buff!

    My issues with him are basically the same as every one else's.

    He does barely any damage without his Ultimate.
    He is absolutely atrocious on defense and almost just as bad on offense.
    He rarely gets to use his ultimate because of how squishy he is.
    If you do get to use his Ultimate it is only because the rest of your team scarified themselves to keep him alive. Which usually involves in SEE dying anyway and if he does survive, he wont the next attack with no allies.
    He barely gives any of his allies any relevant buffs under his leadership. Sure speed is always good but the characters you're suppose to use with him don't seem to benefit from this at all.
    Kylo can 1v5 him.
    Rey can also wastes him in the correct composition.
    Imperial Troopers can utterly sack him (which yes I have tried and yes it works every time against Ultimate SEE).
    Darth Revan compositions also sack Ultimate SEE (which yes i have tried and yes this also works).
    Palpatine led teams can also take out Ultimate SEE quite smoothly along with Vader led teams so long as you know what you're doing, which at this point id say the majority do (Also tried and works).
    Last but not least, he is terrible in raids like Sith Heroic and Tank.

    Myself personally, I have been getting much better results in arena with a strong Vader leadership over his own, which is ashamed as you will never get to use his Ultimate this way.
    I also see people using him under Treya leadership to help keep him alive, but the end result is always the same.

    I have seen video's on Youtube of Bastila Shan Jedi teams and Padme/NightSister teams killing him pretty easily also and yes yes i am aware that some of these SEE's do not have ultimate, but it's not hard to work out that even with it, most of his team would die off anyway as they have 0 defensive viability under his leadership.

    All in all my conclusion is rather sad but simple. He needs a buff up.

    Compared to the other Galactic Legends in this game, he is 10 times easier to face.
    With Kylo, Rey and Master Luke you have to work for a win, where as Sith Eternal is more of an Auto Scenario.
    A cool breeze if you will.

    General Skywalker and Jedi Knight Luke are legendary characters and have much better use than this particular so called Galactic Legend.
    I do very much hope in the coming weeks that he gets some attention in his kit. Right now, as he is, he is not very useful as a Galactic Legend.














    First time on the forums and I'm ranting, sorry everyone!





    On offense, same scenario with the advised team of Malak, Sion, SiT and Bad or SA ? Seems to, but more testing is always interesting.
  • He better get a buff or im never farming a GL again thats for sure.
  • I like the thought JarJar had about giving deceived characters the inability to critical hit you or your allies. This could be very good!
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    If they are truely watching then they should be in “oh shoot" mode watching SEE get destroyed and do no damage. Curious in how they will fix him.

    Add to his survivability and increase his damage. Something outlandish, probably.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    I think SEE does need a boost. I specifically think he needs to protect his team some. Perhaps a mass resurrection on ultimate or as allies die, the remaining allies inherit 50% of that dead character’s max protection. That said, since I have gotten the ultimate, I have consistently beaten all GL’s including kylo except double tank kylo teams. It’s all due th thrawn though. Without him, it becomes impossible to beat any form of kylo and much more difficult to defeat Rey. Here is a video though showing the tactics I use to beat a single tank kylo team.
    ETA: don’t take this video as proof as all is well with see, it’s most definitely not all well. He needs some boosts to make him better on defense against non GL teams, specifically.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/jim5ik/see_vs_single_tank_kylo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Gasp! SEE beats SLKR! All is right with the universe again!

    ... yeah, beating a single tank team is a good start but nowhere near fantastic. Especially with using two different forms of cleanse-proof Buff Immunities. Good to see he can still get to his Ult though. Link on SiT helps with that.
  • Someone up above suggested adding anyone with the debuff deceived cant score critical hits, this, sounds like it would go along way with him. Id like to see that get tested or something along them lines. I dont think it would be OP as characters can easily score massive hits without crits. Definitely think this is an interesting idea.

    But i still think SEE deserves to be given some defensive bonuses for his allies.
  • One of my ideas (surprise!) was to simply remove the Light Side only restrictions on his Ult Basic bonus damage along with his Unique for that initial Decieved, and also remove the Jedi/Rebel restriction on Decieved blocking bonus TM. That would stop IT in its tracks and be a significant blocker to other teams like NS and Shaak Troopers, without disrupting the idea of his kit too much.
  • SEE is weak until he gets ultimate, then he is amazing.

    JML’s ultimate does nothing.

    SEE doesn’t need a buff, just more time for people to unlock ultimates.
  • Kyno
    27456 posts Moderator
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    One of my ideas (surprise!) was to simply remove the Light Side only restrictions on his Ult Basic bonus damage along with his Unique for that initial Decieved, and also remove the Jedi/Rebel restriction on Decieved blocking bonus TM. That would stop IT in its tracks and be a significant blocker to other teams like NS and Shaak Troopers, without disrupting the idea of his kit too much.

    Those do seem to be very intentional and may be there for the more rock paper scissor idea, than to just make him very powerful. not to say they couldn't make changes, but they might make them elsewhere to not disturb that intention.
  • I really do think they need to add +50% critical damage for all sith under his lead at a minimum. SEE does very little with his basic an special, even the legendary characters hit double what SEE does on their basics. Honestly just this 1 buff a lone would make such a difference.
  • SEE is weak until he gets ultimate, then he is amazing.

    JML’s ultimate does nothing.

    SEE doesn’t need a buff, just more time for people to unlock ultimates.

    Wouldnt say hes amazing with his ult. Against anything other than Jedi his dmg is pretty mediocre.
Sign In or Register to comment.