SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • The worst is that more and more people are unlocking SLKR. We could have some nice diversity in arena with SEE but no, we ll continue to see SLKR more and more, cause noone is gonna use SEE

    Depends on meta report. If GL Luke becomes a thing in Arena and SLKR keep struggling against him, going for Kylo for Arena purpose may not be the best idea.


  • Ult SEE is soo scary you guys!
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    You do know that Kylo gains stat increases as he attacks and he siphons (drains) them from his opponents right?

    GLs are not stated to be immune to this from his basic, so yes Wai...

    GLs sould absolutely be immune to something like that. ESPECIALLY if link doesn't work on GL's. When do all the SEE owners start asking for compensation for being sold crap?
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • JMLs AoE literally does more damage than SEE -.-
  • Sad
  • You do know that Kylo gains stat increases as he attacks and he siphons (drains) them from his opponents right?

    GLs are not stated to be immune to this from his basic, so yes Wai...

    Only his AoE actually drains the target, and it doesnt include GLs. His basic and stun only gives him stacks which increases the amount he drains.
  • Kyno
    27482 posts Moderator
    You do know that Kylo gains stat increases as he attacks and he siphons (drains) them from his opponents right?

    GLs are not stated to be immune to this from his basic, so yes Wai...

    Only his AoE actually drains the target, and it doesnt include GLs. His basic and stun only gives him stacks which increases the amount he drains.

    This. They are immune to the draining part of his siphon, but it still add to his mastery.

    But that only happens on his AOE.

    His basic just gives him stacks of siphon, there is nothing to be immune to.
  • Jarvind
    3774 posts Member
    You do know that Kylo gains stat increases as he attacks and he siphons (drains) them from his opponents right?

    GLs are not stated to be immune to this from his basic, so yes Wai...

    I suppose this would be relevant if his basic was what drained mastery, but since it's not...
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  • Shiryu wrote: »


    Ult SEE is soo scary you guys!

    Oh look. SEE only linked the same targets over and over.
    He did no damage at all.
    And AB and CD increase screwed him extra hard.

    And he is suppose to be a jedi killer guys!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOO GOOD JOB CG!!!

    SEE should be immune to AB and CD increase. This is just sad at this point. The devs need to speak up at this point. There is so many great ideas out there to make SEE at least decent. As it stands he is pretty much worse then most legendarys

    CG really needs to speak up now. If this is the sad state of affairs with regard to SEE, they either need to buff him or let people know they are fine with the current situation. If latter, people can actually decide whether to uninstall the game or seek compensation.
  • So I just realized something. All the other GLs, on their damaging abilities, gain +50% damage as a level 2 upgrade. SEE doesn’t.

    ... I feel like this has been mentioned before but I don’t remember where so I’m saying it anyway.
  • Drydinxal wrote: »
    I think my favorite part of all this is to re-read the the dev insight. Basically, we need a bunch of tanks to protect SEE until his ultimate comes on line and then whammy! We win!

    Then you play with SEE and find out he is an unbelievable tank and needs a bunch of attackers because his damage (even in ultimate form) is weak. Did the devs even test him?

    Short answer... No

    Long answer.... We here at cg share one laptop and does thorough of testing as we can. However the rocking of our yacht in the ocean waves from our billions we makes life and testing strenuous and hard.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    Bastila's lead is very good for JML, even Gas under Bastila lead could counter traditional Gas+501 squad. Moreover Tambor usage seems make it very difficult to counter JML even for SEE, as 200 % Protection Up and +150 % Tenacity + 35 % damage makes JML a real beast + Baktoid Shield Generator from Tambor. So i can see that SLKR will soon become not the only problem for SEE.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    Sorry, maybe all have already seen this video, but

  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    So, in conclusion, i will not criticize SEE, as many people have already done it, just due to statistics, seems statics is the mirror of toon quality.
  • dgree
    383 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Drydinxal wrote: »
    I think my favorite part of all this is to re-read the the dev insight. Basically, we need a bunch of tanks to protect SEE until his ultimate comes on line and then whammy! We win!

    Then you play with SEE and find out he is an unbelievable tank and needs a bunch of attackers because his damage (even in ultimate form) is weak. Did the devs even test him?
    Yep. SEE's damage and performance is wildly at odds with the dev explanation of him. Hopefully people will move past all the clickbait video titles and either understand his mechanics or read the post in my signature explaining SEE. Because if there were some oversights in developing SEE, and people don't really understand his issues, then he can't be adequately corrected with changes narrowly tailored towards solving those issues.

    Xagen wrote: »
    So i can see that SLKR will soon become not the only problem for SEE.
    SEE can definitely lose against JML. The people complaining otherwise are generally just JML fans. Which is fine. JML having issues doesn't mean that there aren't major problems with SEE.

    TargetEadu wrote: »
    So I just realized something. All the other GLs, on their damaging abilities, gain +50% damage as a level 2 upgrade. SEE doesn’t.

    ... I feel like this has been mentioned before but I don’t remember where so I’m saying it anyway.
    From the SEE mechanics issues post:
    SLKR's basic alone (x2 hit) has close to triple the damage multipliers of SEE's post-ultimate basic damage multiplier.
    And that's not even looking at SEE's poor damage scaling and all the extra CD SLKR gets from various sources on his guaranteed crits.
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    SEE was supposed to beat Luke hard, and when Luke was placed under Bastila Lead it's occured that Luke is really very strong toon, so Palp doesn't counter Kylo, not reliably counter Rey, and has some problems with countering Luke under Bastila + Wat, and i just try to think about justification for the resources spent for Palp farming, but i can't. Just Kind reminder, Papl is a bit more expensive for farming than Kylo, taking into account that we farm mostly empire and a couple of siths, but we have to use mostly the other toons to somehow counter on arena.
  • dgree
    383 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Nobody afaik (not counting clickbaity youtubers or really mad JML owners who think Jedi should always rock everything and Sith should be terrible) said that SEE was supposed to beat Luke hard. The Luke lead thing is mostly due to DR doing pretty well against JML on his own, with or without SEE (and also was due to the squad comps people were using with JML). SEE is good at draining prot on a couple targets as long as they don't die immediately, so that aspect works on JML since JML doesn't die fast (like, say, NS zombie).

    But I generally agree with your sentiments, and I'm sorry for the immense resources SEE owners have spent getting SEE and trying to power up a viable squad.
  • Eweff
    376 posts Member
    dgree wrote: »
    Nobody afaik (not counting clickbaity youtubers or really mad JML owners who think Jedi should always rock everything and Sith should be terrible) said that SEE was supposed to beat Luke hard. The Luke lead thing is mostly due to DR doing pretty well against JML on his own, with or without SEE (and also was due to the squad comps people were using with JML). SEE is good at draining prot on a couple targets as long as they don't die immediately, so that aspect works on JML since JML doesn't die fast (like, say, NS zombie).

    But I generally agree with your sentiments, and I'm sorry for the immense resources SEE owners have spent getting SEE and trying to power up a viable squad.

    People logically assumed SEE would be able to take down JML and his Jedi squads since the big thing that CG and Kyno are promoting is “rock paper scissors”. Well it certainly isn’t Rey or SLKR that SEE dominates, so we assume they intended Luke.
  • dgree
    383 posts Member
    I'm probably not paying attention since I don't listen to the podcasts, but I didn't notice CG expressly promoting the "rock paper scissors" meme, and afaik Kyno doesn't speak for CG. But the "rock paper scissors" thing is misleading on multiple levels, and it's mostly used as a euphemism for a populist gameplay system where a Sith GL is doomed to be inferior regardless of invested resources.
  • TargetEadu wrote: »
    So I just realized something. All the other GLs, on their damaging abilities, gain +50% damage as a level 2 upgrade. SEE doesn’t.

    ... I feel like this has been mentioned before but I don’t remember where so I’m saying it anyway.

    I just had to go double check to make sure. Your right. All of his "damaging" abilities is missing this 50% more damage.
    That 50% more damage would also help his mastery gain scales much better then it is and why he throws farts.

    If they just rolled upgrade 1 into the zeta and just add in 50% more damage for those first ranks both his basic and special might actually be threatening.

    It doesn't help the fact that he lacks debuffs, works off prot (when sith are health), and can't siphon prot up. but it would be a start at least.

    Add in a little life regeneration, deceive lowering defense and maybe evasion (aka actual debuffs), and making his allies tankier (life regain, defense, max life/prot) and he'd be fine or at least better then the legendary toon he is now.
  • Shiryu
    389 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Just did a test on Darkside 9-g with solo slkr and solo see.

    SEE was hitting 35k crit with his basic turn 1
    SLKR was hitting around 55k

    If SEE had that 50% more damage that would be an additional 17500 dmg on his basic which translates to around 52k

    52k for 1 hit for see is MUCH more acceptable. (still low for an attacker, han does way more)
    (SLKR is hitting 55k twice at minimum. so technically 110k).

    Its better. (normal reys hit 25k per hit with her basic.. so currently rey hits harder then our "attacker" SEE)

    Maybe have something new and unique for his Lead that also gives 25% armor pen to all darkside allies, doubled for sith. this would help with the teams damage tremendously. Tack on 50% life steal (doubled for sith) and parts of him are fixed. (of course numbers can be tweaked)

    And for the love of all that is right... Give his call to assist special a Teamwide cleanse. Nothing is worse then using it when the entire team is stunned or dazed all the time.
  • VelvetDiamond_R6
    72 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Yeah exactly, he hits ridiculously low for a GL, or any attack for that matter. Literally all the other GL's and Legendarys hit harder than SEE does. Infact, quite a lot of normal characters hit harder than SEE, its absolutely stupid.
    Its bad enough he has no defensive leadership traits for his team an lets them get picked off instantly, but also to dish out virtually no damage on top of that.. Its just silly. They may aswell just give him a taunt an change his tag at this point.

    He needs significant work doing to his leadership and damage output.
  • Wonder how long its going to take them to realise we were right an he needs a massive buff. Im counting.
  • Shiryu
    389 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    So here is my fixes for SEE kit. All numbers (and wording as I am not a professional word smith) CAN BE TWEAKED and just getting the ideas out there to help with his character identity and to make him worthy of the title "Galactic Legend".

    The changes focus on TEAM survival along with stacking mastery over time along with debuffs and detrimental effects added into deceive.

    Changes will be italicized for additional effects/ wording changes or strike through for removals


    Basic: (ZETA) Deception

    FINAL TEXT: Deal Special damage to target enemy. If that enemy wasn't Deceived, they become Deceived for 2 turns, increased to 3 turns if they are a Jedi. Deceived can't be copied, dispelled, resisted, and affects any character that is "immune to debuffs". Sith Eternal Emperor gains Speed Up for 2 turns. This ability can't be countered. Rank 1 speed up moved into zeta and adds +50% more damage in its place.

    Deceived: Can't target Sith Eternal Emperor during their turn if another Sith enemy is active; when an ability is used, Sith Eternal Emperor gains 2% Ultimate Charge


    Special 1: (ZETA) So Be It, Jedi (Cooldown 3)

    FINAL TEXT: Deal Special damage to target enemy and call all other Dark Side allies to assist, dealing 10% more damage for each Deceived enemy. Dark Side allies recover 25% Protection and 25% Health. Sith Allies have all their debuffs removed.. Jedi enemies defeated this turn can't be revived.


    Special 2: (ZETA) Unraveled Destiny (Cooldown 6)

    FINAL TEXT: Dark Side allies gain Retribution, Offense Up, Critical Damage up for 3 turns, and Dark Side Tank allies gain Taunt and Defense Up for 2 turns. Remove Linked from all enemies. Then, target enemy becomes Linked until a Linked enemy is defeated or until the end of encounter. Sith Eternal Emperor gains the granted ability Entwined Fate and takes a bonus turn.
    During this bonus turn, Sith Eternal Emperor may only use Entwined Fate, can't be ability blocked, ignores taunt effects, and may not target a Linked character.

    Linked: This character is Linked

    Entwined Fate: Target enemy becomes Linked. This ability is removed and can't be used again until Unraveled Destiny is used.

    If there is only a single enemy target alive Inflict Shattered Link on target enemy for 2 turns. Shattered Link: Target suffers -50% defense, -25% speed, -25% offense, can't gain turn meter or attack out of turn. Enemies with Shattered Link also suffer the same effects as normal link in regards to protection. These effects do not stack with defense down, offense down, speed down, or daze.


    Leader: (ZETA) Sith Eternal

    FINAL TEXT: Dark Side allies have +25% Mastery, +30% Potency, and +20 Speed, 50% Heath Steal, 25% Defense penetration, 25% Defense, doubled for Sith allies.
    Whenever a Deceived or Linked enemy uses an ability, Sith Eternal Emperor gains 10% Mastery (stacking) until the end of encounter and other Sith allies gain half that amount. Whenever a Linked enemy uses an ability, Sith Eternal Emperor gains 8% Ultimate Charge.

    Whenever a Sith ally gains max health or % max health they also gain that much protection or % max protection. When a Sith ally is defeated dispel all debuffs on other Sith allies, grant them 50% TM, and 50% of the defeated Sith ally max health.
    Whenever a Sith ally is defeated, dispel all debuffs on other Sith allies and they recover 100% Health and Protection. Sith allies can't be revived, and they ignore defense when targeting a Jedi enemy.


    Unique 1: (ZETA) Sow Discord

    FINAL TEXT: Sith Eternal Emperor is immune to taunt effects and Turn Meter reduction. Deceived enemies can't counter attack, do 25% less damage with out of turn attacks, have -50% defense (effects don't stack with other reduction effects), and -25% evasion. and Deceived Rebel and Jedi enemies can't gain bonus Turn Meter.
    At the start of Sith Eternal Emperor's turn, if no enemies are Deceived, the weakest Light Side enemy becomes Deceived for 2 turns. Whenever a Deceived enemy uses an ability, their weakest ally without Deceived becomes Deceived for the max duration Sith Eternal Emperor could inflict on them (limit once per turn), and Sith Eternal Emperor and Sith allies recovers 2% Health and Protection. Deceived can't be copied, dispelled, or resisted.
    At the start of each Linked enemy's turn, Linked enemies lose 20% Max Protection, quadrupled for Jedi, and Sith Eternal Emperor gains 25% of the amount lost. If the Linked target has Protection Up Sith Eternal Emperor deals 20% of the current Protection up as true damage to the target and gains 25% of the damage dealt as protection. Linked raid bosses instead gain Expose for 2 turns, which can't be resisted.

    Linked enemies can't critically hit, and damage they deal is decreased by 25% (excludes Galactic Legends).


    Unique 2: (ZETA) Galactic Legend

    FINAL TEXT: This unit takes reduced damage from percent Health damage effects and massive damage effects. They take massive damage from destroy effects (excludes raid bosses) and are immune to stun effects.
    This unit has +10% Max Health and Max Protection per Relic Amplifier level, and damage they receive is decreased by 30%.


    Ultimate: I Am All The Sith (Must charge to 100% before use)

    FINAL TEXT: Sith Eternal Emperor gains 2% Ultimate Charge whenever a Deceived enemy uses an ability. If Sith Eternal Emperor is the leader, he also gains 8% Ultimate Charge whenever a Linked enemy uses an ability.
    Sith Eternal Emperor gains Mastery equal to his current Mastery until the end of battle and transforms into Sith Eternal Emperor (Restored). If he is the leader, all other Dark Side allies gain Mastery equal to their current Mastery until the end of battle. Remove Deceived from all Deceived enemies and inflict Deceived until the end of encounter on those enemies, which can't be copied, dispelled, or resisted.
    When Sith Eternal Emperor transforms, he loses the abilities Deception and So Be It, Jedi and gains two new abilities.

    [Basic] Revitalized Shock:
    Deal Special damage to target enemy and inflict Shock for 2 turns, which can't be copied or dispelled. This attack deals 150% more damage to Deceived Light Side enemies. If the target was already Deceived, reduce the cooldown of Power! Unlimited Power! by 1 for each Deceived enemy. This attack can't be evaded or countered. Sith Eternal Emperor gains Speed Up for 2 turns.


    [Special] Power! Unlimited Power!: (Cooldown 20)

    Instantly defeat Linked enemies and deal Special damage to all enemies. Then, dispel all buffs on Deceived enemies and deal Special damage to them. Enemies defeated by this ability can't be revived. This attack can't be evaded or countered.



  • Side note for the protection up change to linked in my proposed changes. The target would still be able to recover that protection via abilities as it wouldnt lower the current max protection they have, just that SEE would damage the target and still "steal" that protection. It leave the buff in place to be a creative solution while letting SEE still leech protection and not have a wasted link.
  • We need that buff ASAP...
  • Kyno
    27482 posts Moderator
    SithAmer wrote: »
    Shiryu wrote: »


    Ult SEE is soo scary you guys!

    Oh look. SEE only linked the same targets over and over.
    He did no damage at all.
    And AB and CD increase screwed him extra hard.

    And he is suppose to be a jedi killer guys!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOO GOOD JOB CG!!!

    SEE should be immune to AB and CD increase. This is just sad at this point. The devs need to speak up at this point. There is so many great ideas out there to make SEE at least decent. As it stands he is pretty much worse then most legendarys

    CG really needs to speak up now. If this is the sad state of affairs with regard to SEE, they either need to buff him or let people know they are fine with the current situation. If latter, people can actually decide whether to uninstall the game or seek compensation.

    @SithAmer. they already stated they are keeping an eye on things.

    There is a fair amount of missing things about claims being made, and a few things that are based on single comps or not maxed SEE.

    If they are watching it, then they are obviously not 100% happy, but they are always going to be on the cautious side before jumping at changes
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