SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • dgree wrote: »
    There's no indication whatsoever that any Sith is coming, or that the Sith faction is getting any attention whatsoever. Everything about SEE's mechanics (including stuff not observable in his kit) indicate that CG was afraid of making him strong, tried to balance him, and went totally overboard and nerfed him right out of the box.

    And, again, almost any new DS toon, Sith or not, would likely be stronger under SLKR compared to SEE.

    Not necessarily. If a new character would gain strength by the number of deceived opponents or add value to the mechanics of SEE kit. But at this point there is no reason to expect a new Sith since CG declared they focus on the "era" of the Disney show The Mandalorian.

    By the way: I do not think that linking allies and opponents is a good idea. It would make even less sense. In order to keep the ability and it´s effects in place it would be best to turn the "debuff" into something else that can still be applied if there is only one opponent left (or only one present at the start of the battle).
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Besides the "link doesn't work when 1 enemy left" bug, (yes I'm calling it a bug), the freaken AI needs to be changed so that SEE doesn't link GLs, unless there is only a GL+1 Ally left on the enemy team. Link on GL is stupid since they can't be killed by SEE's ultimate aoe. So that needs to be changed. It would give SEE a bit more winnability on defense.

    Obviously its not dumb but a question of preferred strategy. Usually linking a GL results in 2-3 opponents killed by the AoE and one GL that can be taken out comfortably.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    dgree wrote: »
    There's no indication whatsoever that any Sith is coming, or that the Sith faction is getting any attention whatsoever. Everything about SEE's mechanics (including stuff not observable in his kit) indicate that CG was afraid of making him strong, tried to balance him, and went totally overboard and nerfed him right out of the box.

    And, again, almost any new DS toon, Sith or not, would likely be stronger under SLKR compared to SEE.

    I agree we don't have any indication that Sith are coming BUT... If you have been watching mandalorian (SPOILERS) you saw proto snokes, cloning discussions, with Moff Gideon clearly in control of that operation, with his darksaber... would it be too much of a stretch to draw a connection to Palpatine who at this point in the story is most likely already on a coat hanger on exagol plotting the rise of the first order. Perhaps we will learn that Gideon is a bit of a Sith fan boy and he could have sith synergies without being a sith. One can hope :)
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • I don't think CG's content is going to be ahead of the Mandalorian story. SLKR was behind the last movie, for example. And I don't want to get into Mando stuff but I didn't see what you saw, and I doubt CG was counting on that when they made SEE.

    The problem here is that SEE is so deeply flawed that it's almost absurd to think that one other toon is magically going to pull it all together. What we'd really be saying here is that SEE is half a GL and that the other half is secretly coming in the future without any hint whatsoever to complete SEE. And he'd have all this stuff in his kit that's SEE-specific that would fix all of SEE's ridiculous issues that absolutely look like misrepresentation (for example, his damage). And the new mando toons aren't even close to farmable yet to get this mega-Malak that's supposedly coming, and it would be making Mandalorian, a popular show/theme, all about this reject SEE character?

    I don't believe it for a second, and some big new toon coming in 8 months means everyone else gets to rock and roll through all the game modes with the other GLs and pick up SEE later, where there's no benefit to having SEE already.

    There's no indication whatsoever of any big toon coming, or even necessarily a rework yet. Or anything for the Sith. The best we can hope for right now is either a serious touchup on multiple fronts, or a declaration that SEE is supposed to be poop and that previous representations to the contrary mean players get some sort of refund (refunded relics due to high cost for this low power toon, or ability to give back SEE or trade for another GL).
  • Sewpot
    1560 posts Member
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying. Not that he doesn't need SOMETHING but I think at this point I would be ok with minor tweaks to damage vs. DS enemies and something that removes the ability to solo him via fixing the clunkiness of linking enemies. I am surprised that CG hasn't jumped on this as they have typically aggressvely fixed undermanning new characters.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I've finally, after weeks of careful modding and team tweaking, have been able to stop Rey from Soloing my SEE in Arena when she's by herself, but yes adding Wat to the team allows her to Duo SEE still, like the above screenshot. Just confirming.
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying.

    Just honestly wondering why you have drawn this conclusion? What are you using SEE for? Just Arena?

    For attacking in Arena, he is... Decent. He can beat JML without much of a problem (unless JML is under Bastila lead and has wat), can decently beat most Rey teams (50/50 odds, which is fair in the RPS Meta).

    It's still nearly impossible to beat SLKR teams, I think 1 or 2 people (looking at the Sith discord) have managed to pull it off with extreme modding and RNG. It shouldn't be easy to beat SLKR with SEE in the RPS Meta, but it shouldn't be nearly impossible. Anyone should be able to beat SLKR if they are using good strategy (not hitting auto), have good mods, and not have to pray to the RNG gods.

    With that said, SEE remains terrible on defense in Arena, and is useless everywhere else in the game. He is useless in GAC and TW (your guild will hate you for using him and losing efficiency on banners), and his ability in PvE is non-existent.

    I will agree he only needs small tweaks to his offense in PvP, but he needs massive buffs to his defensive capabilities, ability to keep his teammates alive, and massive buffs to the damage output in PvE.




  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying.

    Just honestly wondering why you have drawn this conclusion? What are you using SEE for? Just Arena?

    For attacking in Arena, he is... Decent. He can beat JML without much of a problem (unless JML is under Bastila lead and has wat), can decently beat most Rey teams (50/50 odds, which is fair in the RPS Meta).

    It's still nearly impossible to beat SLKR teams, I think 1 or 2 people (looking at the Sith discord) have managed to pull it off with extreme modding and RNG. It shouldn't be easy to beat SLKR with SEE in the RPS Meta, but it shouldn't be nearly impossible. Anyone should be able to beat SLKR if they are using good strategy (not hitting auto), have good mods, and not have to pray to the RNG gods.

    With that said, SEE remains terrible on defense in Arena, and is useless everywhere else in the game. He is useless in GAC and TW (your guild will hate you for using him and losing efficiency on banners), and his ability in PvE is non-existent.

    I will agree he only needs small tweaks to his offense in PvP, but he needs massive buffs to his defensive capabilities, ability to keep his teammates alive, and massive buffs to the damage output in PvE.




    I knew that comment would ruffle some feathers. Here is my experience. I can beat any Rey (100%), and any JML (100%) with See, Traya, SET and then two of these: Vader, Wat, Thrawn, DN, Malak. I can beat any single tank (50/50) Kylo if I have Thrawn and Vader as the 4th and 5th. I have beaten double tank Kylo 1-2 times but I consider that an unwinnable match. Granted, I have maximized my mods, and taken all except Thrawn and Wat to r7. My other GL is Rey so I use her to take on the increasingly rare Kylo's that may be in my way and even consistently win the one mirror match I have every few days. I also hold on defense MUCH better than when I leave Rey in, mostly because there are a LOT of JML's in my shard and most JML's struggle as much against SEE as See struggles against Kylo. I counted 14-15 kylos in the top 50 yesterday. The rest were rey and jml, which is an easy win for See.

    This is my experience as someone who was one of the first 100 to unlock and has done extensive testing in arena. All that said, again, I do think he needs some tweaks, but he isn't garbage by any stretch.

    ETA, I use SEE to beat Rey or JML in TW, for 18-19 banners as I have to use my Rey to beat Kylo. I have only used him in GAC but despite me not giving a flying hoot about GAC and mailing it in most of the time, I use SEE to beat Rey or JML in 3's where he is pretty strong.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • @RAYRAY Idk how much I disagree, but check out the explanations list in this post. What do you think about these issues?
    dgree wrote: »
    Rather than rewriting the kit, I'm going to suggest some fixes (largely based on the issues spotted a month ago, which have only been confirmed by new evidence as time has gone on). These are conservative touchups to SEE's kit that are narrowly tailored towards alleviating his extreme weaknesses (which aren't currently balanced by strengths). I'll put the fixes in order of priority, and the fewer fixes applied, the stronger the applied fixes would need to be for SEE to be balanced. Explanations following the fix list.

    The fixes:
    1. Dramatically increase base damage multiplier on Revitalized Shock (post-ultimate basic). If we're worried about too much damage vs LS, reduce the LS %, or remove the LS restriction (next fix) and take this bonus damage into account.
    2. Remove LS/rebel/jedi restrictions, particularly from Sow Discord's Deceived application on SEE's turn
    3. Increase the increment % of SEE leadership stacking mastery gain
    4. Whenever a Sith ally is defeated, increase SEE's stats (sacrifice mechanic for % stats or their mastery)
    5. Apply critical hit removal and reduced damage output of Linked to enemy GLs.
    6. Ultimate Charge: If there is only one enemy combatant, SEE gains 10% Ultimate Charge (instead of 2%) whenever a Deceived enemy uses an ability.
    7. Whenever a Linked enemy is defeated, SEE gains a bonus turn and the cooldown of Unraveled Destiny is reset
    8. When SEE uses ultimate he gains a bonus turn


    Fix explanations:
    1. SEE's basic damage is poopy doodoo in general -- eg. SLKR's basic with only double-hit has about triple SEE's multiplier before taking into account SEE's inferior mastery and defense penetration base stats.
    2. Specifically regarding Deceived: In the limited testing of SEE vs DS opponents (due to a DS SEE squad being unable to beat SLKR) there seem to be major issues applying and spreading Deceived to the enemy squad, especially after ultimate when SEE loses Deceived on basic and often no enemies have Deceived, and no enemies can be Deceived. In general, the LS/Rebel/Jedi strengths are portrayed as a bonus and a strength when these kit features are basically just cloaking SEE's weakness (which is why we're seeing modest damage vs jedi, and poor damage vs DS). And the restriction doesn't make sense thematically since SEE deceived everyone.
    3. SEE's stacking mastery doesn't give him good offense gain. Mastery sounds sexy, but even an old school Sid lead boost damage more. From bast/JML/wat we can see that SLKR's damage late into the battle is about 3x SEE's vs Jedi, and probably around 10x more if SEE loses 150% bonus and defense penetration vs DS.
    4. SEE's lead does very little for his allies (thrawn and malak are better under SLKR, for example) and his allies don't improve his stats, they just regenerate his protection when they die. This is why SEE struggles to get to ultimate and is so easily soloed, and fairly commonly countered. This would actually encourage more Sith, and could make toons like Sidious potentially slightly relevant.
    5. Other GLs provide strong crit immunity against the entire enemy squad, including enemy GLs, and major buffs and support for themselves and their squad. This allows SEE to reduce damage from only one enemy attacker, even if it's a GL.
    6. SEE can't apply Linked if there is only one enemy. Hopefully SEE won't be so weak as a leader that he can be soloed so easily (either 1v5 by GLs, or 1v1 by non-GLs), but if he is this will help by allowing him to still reach ultimate.
    7. Similar to the solo issue, SEE is very vulnerable to enemies using paper tanks who are the first linked target and forcing SEE to kill them and remove Linked. This is a more conservative alternative to allowing SEE to ignore taunt in general or on his first Linked application. We've seen this with NS, Geos, and Imp Troopers.
    8. SEE using his ultimate then doing is kind of weird, right? Let him use an ability after transforming!

  • Annoying that if Traya and SET are essential then I'd imagine for many people that's yet more resources going into relics to try and get SEE to work properly. Why weren't they part of SEE's prerequisites rather than Krennic and Marauder, for example?
  • RAYRAY wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying.

    Just honestly wondering why you have drawn this conclusion? What are you using SEE for? Just Arena?

    For attacking in Arena, he is... Decent. He can beat JML without much of a problem (unless JML is under Bastila lead and has wat), can decently beat most Rey teams (50/50 odds, which is fair in the RPS Meta).

    It's still nearly impossible to beat SLKR teams, I think 1 or 2 people (looking at the Sith discord) have managed to pull it off with extreme modding and RNG. It shouldn't be easy to beat SLKR with SEE in the RPS Meta, but it shouldn't be nearly impossible. Anyone should be able to beat SLKR if they are using good strategy (not hitting auto), have good mods, and not have to pray to the RNG gods.

    With that said, SEE remains terrible on defense in Arena, and is useless everywhere else in the game. He is useless in GAC and TW (your guild will hate you for using him and losing efficiency on banners), and his ability in PvE is non-existent.

    I will agree he only needs small tweaks to his offense in PvP, but he needs massive buffs to his defensive capabilities, ability to keep his teammates alive, and massive buffs to the damage output in PvE.




    I knew that comment would ruffle some feathers. Here is my experience. I can beat any Rey (100%), and any JML (100%) with See, Traya, SET and then two of these: Vader, Wat, Thrawn, DN, Malak. I can beat any single tank (50/50) Kylo if I have Thrawn and Vader as the 4th and 5th. I have beaten double tank Kylo 1-2 times but I consider that an unwinnable match. Granted, I have maximized my mods, and taken all except Thrawn and Wat to r7.

    But that leads down to the point many have made in the thread; it's not SEE carrying that team it's Thrawn, Traya, Wat, Vader, etc.

    I can beat Rey 100% of the time as well with Vader(L), Wat, Traya, Thrawn, and 1 other sith like Malak. But...

    If Galactic Legend SEE, who is considerably harder and more expensive to obtain, is just a direct replacement for Vader, that is very sad.


    Anyway, yeah I agree with you that he only needs minor tweaks in Arena offensive capability, but you glossed over my other points. TW. GAC. Raids. He is utterly useless in those areas of the game, where as the others have a lot more use and functionality (especially Kylo!).

    I am curious to how your Rey, JML, and SLKR matchups go. Do you finish with a full team?

    Vs. Rey, it's rare I finish with anyone but SEE alive. Vs. JML, I usually finish with Malak and SET alive only because I have them modded for max protection at the expense of speed (things like protection arrow, or other mods with 4 rolls on protection secondaries). I haven't beat SLKR yet so I can't comment on that but I assume as well that he kills off your entire team before you mamage to win.

    So anyway the defensive point is, OK even if in your shard you hold fairly well because your shard has many JMLs, his defensive capabilities still suck, he does nothing for his sith team and fails at helping them stay alive, so he's useless for banner efficiency in TW/GAC.

    PvE is perhaps the saddest facet. It's awesome that Kylo can do things like solo the sith raid; he is after all an 'immense attacker'. But why does SEE, who is a 'devastating attacker' do far worse in PvE than a tank like JML or a Support like Rey? You are lucky if you can crack 10m damage in phase 2 of the sith raid with SEE, and that's with a Sith Empire team that are the true MvPs and can do 15-20m damage on their own, on auto, in phase 3 and phase 4.






  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    Annoying that if Traya and SET are essential then I'd imagine for many people that's yet more resources going into relics to try and get SEE to work properly. Why weren't they part of SEE's prerequisites rather than Krennic and Marauder, for example?

    This is exactly the point. People think SEE could be a LITTLE weaker because he is easy to get. To get him even to resemble the power level he should be you need to relic a whole bunch of different sith. Ultimately I think he becomes one of the least effiecient GL to USE effectively.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying.

    Just honestly wondering why you have drawn this conclusion? What are you using SEE for? Just Arena?

    For attacking in Arena, he is... Decent. He can beat JML without much of a problem (unless JML is under Bastila lead and has wat), can decently beat most Rey teams (50/50 odds, which is fair in the RPS Meta).

    It's still nearly impossible to beat SLKR teams, I think 1 or 2 people (looking at the Sith discord) have managed to pull it off with extreme modding and RNG. It shouldn't be easy to beat SLKR with SEE in the RPS Meta, but it shouldn't be nearly impossible. Anyone should be able to beat SLKR if they are using good strategy (not hitting auto), have good mods, and not have to pray to the RNG gods.

    With that said, SEE remains terrible on defense in Arena, and is useless everywhere else in the game. He is useless in GAC and TW (your guild will hate you for using him and losing efficiency on banners), and his ability in PvE is non-existent.

    I will agree he only needs small tweaks to his offense in PvP, but he needs massive buffs to his defensive capabilities, ability to keep his teammates alive, and massive buffs to the damage output in PvE.




    I knew that comment would ruffle some feathers. Here is my experience. I can beat any Rey (100%), and any JML (100%) with See, Traya, SET and then two of these: Vader, Wat, Thrawn, DN, Malak. I can beat any single tank (50/50) Kylo if I have Thrawn and Vader as the 4th and 5th. I have beaten double tank Kylo 1-2 times but I consider that an unwinnable match. Granted, I have maximized my mods, and taken all except Thrawn and Wat to r7.

    But that leads down to the point many have made in the thread; it's not SEE carrying that team it's Thrawn, Traya, Wat, Vader, etc.

    I can beat Rey 100% of the time as well with Vader(L), Wat, Traya, Thrawn, and 1 other sith like Malak. But...

    If Galactic Legend SEE, who is considerably harder and more expensive to obtain, is just a direct replacement for Vader, that is very sad.


    Anyway, yeah I agree with you that he only needs minor tweaks in Arena offensive capability, but you glossed over my other points. TW. GAC. Raids. He is utterly useless in those areas of the game, where as the others have a lot more use and functionality (especially Kylo!).

    I am curious to how your Rey, JML, and SLKR matchups go. Do you finish with a full team?

    Vs. Rey, it's rare I finish with anyone but SEE alive. Vs. JML, I usually finish with Malak and SET alive only because I have them modded for max protection at the expense of speed (things like protection arrow, or other mods with 4 rolls on protection secondaries). I haven't beat SLKR yet so I can't comment on that but I assume as well that he kills off your entire team before you mamage to win.

    So anyway the defensive point is, OK even if in your shard you hold fairly well because your shard has many JMLs, his defensive capabilities still suck, he does nothing for his sith team and fails at helping them stay alive, so he's useless for banner efficiency in TW/GAC.

    PvE is perhaps the saddest facet. It's awesome that Kylo can do things like solo the sith raid; he is after all an 'immense attacker'. But why does SEE, who is a 'devastating attacker' do far worse in PvE than a tank like JML or a Support like Rey? You are lucky if you can crack 10m damage in phase 2 of the sith raid with SEE, and that's with a Sith Empire team that are the true MvPs and can do 15-20m damage on their own, on auto, in phase 3 and phase 4.






    I don't doubt that you are getting the results you are getting in Arena and other "pvp". I just have different results, maybe because my opponents are weaker than the ones you face? I started playing December of 2015 so we have a lot of people with very good mods and very good rosters so I don't think that is the case. I thought the same about Vader and Thrawn but I have puposely been doing a lot of battles without them in stead using Sion and DN, or Malak and DN or Wat and DN or Wat and Sion, etc. BTW, Sion is the third best sith tank under see, in my experience mods being equal. I have gotten to the point where I will always finish with at least 3 and if I play it perfect 4-5 remain vs. Rey and JML even without Vader and Thrawn. That is a relatively new development in my experience and I will admit that it has made me feel a bit better about him.

    I STILL THINK HE NEEDS A TWEAK. All of those examples and reasons are valid but if they are all fixed he would be OP. I think to really perfect him he needs to not be gimped with Linked, they should make it do the following:
    1. Ignore taunt throught the match at the least start as a bonus turn.
    2. Reset the cooldown and maybe even give a bonus turn when link breaks
    3. Give the ability to link a single enemy, somehow to remove the ability to be solo'd

    Oh and RE: PVE, he does fine in DSTB, that's good. But HSTR he is bad to mediocre at best. He can lead a vader team to a "solo" in tank. Maybe he will bring a lot to the table in the new Rancor? He needs to I think. I agree that PVE is a low spot for him.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    RAYRAY wrote: »
    Sewpot wrote: »
    yqvgh6ibnqpe.jpeg
    It gets old fast when this is the go to team to beat my SEE team. All relic 7 SEE,SET,Traya,nihilus and Sid. 🤦‍♂️

    I have been all in on SEE needing some tweaks. After all this time, and energy that I have put into building my sith to R7 to make him work in arena, I can unequivocally say, that See is really not as bad as we have all have been saying.

    Just honestly wondering why you have drawn this conclusion? What are you using SEE for? Just Arena?

    For attacking in Arena, he is... Decent. He can beat JML without much of a problem (unless JML is under Bastila lead and has wat), can decently beat most Rey teams (50/50 odds, which is fair in the RPS Meta).

    It's still nearly impossible to beat SLKR teams, I think 1 or 2 people (looking at the Sith discord) have managed to pull it off with extreme modding and RNG. It shouldn't be easy to beat SLKR with SEE in the RPS Meta, but it shouldn't be nearly impossible. Anyone should be able to beat SLKR if they are using good strategy (not hitting auto), have good mods, and not have to pray to the RNG gods.

    With that said, SEE remains terrible on defense in Arena, and is useless everywhere else in the game. He is useless in GAC and TW (your guild will hate you for using him and losing efficiency on banners), and his ability in PvE is non-existent.

    I will agree he only needs small tweaks to his offense in PvP, but he needs massive buffs to his defensive capabilities, ability to keep his teammates alive, and massive buffs to the damage output in PvE.




    I knew that comment would ruffle some feathers. Here is my experience. I can beat any Rey (100%), and any JML (100%) with See, Traya, SET and then two of these: Vader, Wat, Thrawn, DN, Malak. I can beat any single tank (50/50) Kylo if I have Thrawn and Vader as the 4th and 5th. I have beaten double tank Kylo 1-2 times but I consider that an unwinnable match. Granted, I have maximized my mods, and taken all except Thrawn and Wat to r7.

    But that leads down to the point many have made in the thread; it's not SEE carrying that team it's Thrawn, Traya, Wat, Vader, etc.

    I can beat Rey 100% of the time as well with Vader(L), Wat, Traya, Thrawn, and 1 other sith like Malak. But...

    If Galactic Legend SEE, who is considerably harder and more expensive to obtain, is just a direct replacement for Vader, that is very sad.


    Anyway, yeah I agree with you that he only needs minor tweaks in Arena offensive capability, but you glossed over my other points. TW. GAC. Raids. He is utterly useless in those areas of the game, where as the others have a lot more use and functionality (especially Kylo!).

    I am curious to how your Rey, JML, and SLKR matchups go. Do you finish with a full team?

    Vs. Rey, it's rare I finish with anyone but SEE alive. Vs. JML, I usually finish with Malak and SET alive only because I have them modded for max protection at the expense of speed (things like protection arrow, or other mods with 4 rolls on protection secondaries). I haven't beat SLKR yet so I can't comment on that but I assume as well that he kills off your entire team before you mamage to win.

    So anyway the defensive point is, OK even if in your shard you hold fairly well because your shard has many JMLs, his defensive capabilities still suck, he does nothing for his sith team and fails at helping them stay alive, so he's useless for banner efficiency in TW/GAC.

    PvE is perhaps the saddest facet. It's awesome that Kylo can do things like solo the sith raid; he is after all an 'immense attacker'. But why does SEE, who is a 'devastating attacker' do far worse in PvE than a tank like JML or a Support like Rey? You are lucky if you can crack 10m damage in phase 2 of the sith raid with SEE, and that's with a Sith Empire team that are the true MvPs and can do 15-20m damage on their own, on auto, in phase 3 and phase 4.






    I am terrible at reading the whole message before I comment:). forgive me. SLKR, if its a win, usually means he dies before his ultimate because thrawn has him fractured and I am able to kill him while he is fractured. Needs Vader and Thrawn and Traya and ability blocks landing. If SLKR gets off his ulitmate, everyone but see dies and most of the time see dies to 100k basics while zapping SLKR for 28K.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • SEE needs 1 tweak to link. Whenever Link expires, reset cooldown on Link, SEE gains a bonus turn. If SEE cannot perform link, SEE gains a bonus turn.

    Problem solved.
  • SEE needs 1 tweak to link. Whenever Link expires, reset cooldown on Link, SEE gains a bonus turn. If SEE cannot perform link, SEE gains a bonus turn.

    Problem solved.

    That would be a nice little tweak


  • EP lead (Vader is the MVP) beats SEE (U) in approx. 2 mins. SEE was just linking and sitting there.
  • ...24 days and counting.
  • Fingers crossed we get something at the next update... SEE isnt the GL he deserves to be, i mean Palp and even Luke are the iconic characters, SEE itself was the real enemy behind all the movies. Both Palp and Luke should stay above that new Rey and Kylo Kids... at least balance them better so they are on par and maybe beat each other with different squad configs - and yes GLs should never be easy to counter without GLs, it should be a high risk move (which at least is a FTP chance after all).
  • So if we don't receive any response from CG within next 4 weeks, it will be clear that they disregarded and ignored this communication channel at all, we will see soon any **** GLs
  • Xagen
    407 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    If our complaints break any CG plans to use SEE as semi-GL counter to JML, we don't receive any response at all. They are not really interested in buffing him till the moment when it becomes important for them. They feel good that people don't go for SEE, and players farm far worse than JML, smth about 3k vs 7k. I checked Piett,--required unit for SEE-the numbers all not so great as required new toons' numbers for JML. Go on CG play hide-and-seek
  • I spent 4 1/2 minutes letting SEE mastery stack up against a JML and Wat (other 3 were dead).

    SET had a bonus 20k protection from mastery gain... which is pathetic.
    I used SEE ult to double mastery, then hit Wat with a shock.... for a grand total of 25k crit!!!!!!!!!!!

    4 1/2 minutes of stacking "damage" for this "DEVASTATING ATTACKER" to do a 25k crit to a wat.
  • Shiryu wrote: »
    I spent 4 1/2 minutes letting SEE mastery stack up against a JML and Wat (other 3 were dead).

    SET had a bonus 20k protection from mastery gain... which is pathetic.
    I used SEE ult to double mastery, then hit Wat with a shock.... for a grand total of 25k crit!!!!!!!!!!!

    4 1/2 minutes of stacking "damage" for this "DEVASTATING ATTACKER" to do a 25k crit to a wat.

    INB4 Kyno asks if you took a video of it.
  • MD_Geist wrote: »
    Fingers crossed we get something at the next update... SEE isnt the GL he deserves to be, i mean Palp and even Luke are the iconic characters, SEE itself was the real enemy behind all the movies. Both Palp and Luke should stay above that new Rey and Kylo Kids... at least balance them better so they are on par and maybe beat each other with different squad configs - and yes GLs should never be easy to counter without GLs, it should be a high risk move (which at least is a FTP chance after all).

    SEE is literally the most powerful force user that ever existed. The game doesn't work off of canon tho
  • dgree
    383 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Can we just take a moment to appreciate how useless this Zeta is? Even versus JML teams which SEE is designed to fight, JML and JKR both can ignore taunt.

    If not replaced, at least this should be made an omega and Zeta mats refunded

    vbl3t8r9rp1e.jpg

    Typical SEE ability. All of the cost of an actual GL ability, and a fraction of the value. This is a particularly mediocre zeta, though. IDK what they were thinking tbh. As @Shiryu mentioned, SEE doesn't really help anyone tank much. Rey or SLKR will both slaughter them, and as you said jedi can go around them.
  • 1. Damage boost is necessary. Mastery gain, damage tweaks, however they do it.

    2. I think if they double the effects of linking an enemy on a single opponent could stop solo counters. Currently it works to take protection off 2 characters, why not off 1 character twice as fast. This would also charge ultimate faster since link mechanic works on a single character.

    3. Do not remove SEEs 2nd ability upon reaching ultimate. This helps for survivability. Just add the new special.

    I am a JML owner and still believe these adjustments should happen.
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