1. Damage boost is necessary. Mastery gain, damage tweaks, however they do it.
2. I think if they double the effects of linking an enemy on a single opponent could stop solo counters. Currently it works to take protection off 2 characters, why not off 1 character twice as fast. This would also charge ultimate faster since link mechanic works on a single character.
3. Do not remove SEEs 2nd ability upon reaching ultimate. This helps for survivability. Just add the new special.
I am a JML owner and still believe these adjustments should happen.
I would maybe go for SEE next instead of SLKR if a couple tweaks happen as it’s an easier farm for me. SLKR would still likely be the best but this just brings SEE a bit closer.
I think a couple minor tweaks to JML are also in order, but I’ll save those for another thread.
I just want to know if future darkside GLs will continue to crap on their own squads.
Probably. Aside from Sith Empire, triumvirat, and the new Imperial troopers, most of the dark side heros in this game are garbage.
lol
Ok garbage is a strong word, but most are not meta capable anymore, light side have all been much more recently updated. And then there are some dark side that garbage is a good word for, like Tuskens. They severely need a buff, especially with Tuskens being heros in this season of the TV show
I just want to know if future darkside GLs will continue to crap on their own squads.
Probably. Aside from Sith Empire, triumvirat, and the new Imperial troopers, most of the dark side heros in this game are garbage.
lol
Ok garbage is a strong word, but most are not meta capable anymore, light side have all been much more recently updated. And then there are some dark side that garbage is a good word for, like Tuskens. They severely need a buff, especially with Tuskens being heros in this season of the TV show
NS are still a top team
BH are tier 1 material capable of taking out other tier 1 teams like Padme or DR
Geos are tier 2 and still one of the most common teams to test new chars/teams against
KRU (with Hux) is tier 2 stuff that often gets underestimated (beefy KRU and Hux shutting down TM gains)
GG is one of the standard tier 1 defense teams
Vader+friends is one of the most common Rey/SLKR counters
and then there are the teams you already mentioned: SE - tier 1, Sith trio - tier 2 and troopers tier 2 (maybe even 1)
Saying that "most dark side heros in this game are garbage" is just nonsense.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how useless this Zeta is? Even versus JML teams which SEE is designed to fight, JML and JKR both can ignore taunt.
If not replaced, at least this should be made an omega and Zeta mats refunded
Should read:
... And Sith/DS Support gain stealth and Sith/DS Attackers gain Offense Up.
This fix would allow to protect traya, nihilus, bsf (or thrawn) and get some damage vs all the defense Support other GLs offer for their Team. It would also buff a bit the damage of the "devasting attacker" ...
Both are also canon, Sith hide in shadows until they reveal themself with full Power.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how useless this Zeta is? Even versus JML teams which SEE is designed to fight, JML and JKR both can ignore taunt.
If not replaced, at least this should be made an omega and Zeta mats refunded
Should read:
... And Sith/DS Support gain stealth and Sith/DS Attackers gain Offense Up.
This fix would allow to protect traya, nihilus, bsf (or thrawn) and get some damage vs all the defense Support other GLs offer for their Team. It would also buff a bit the damage of the "devasting attacker" ...
Both are also canon, Sith hide in shadows until they reveal themself with full Power.
Add "DS tank allies get retribution, defense up, health up and recover 50% protection. Tanks call SEE to assist if the enemy is deceived"
That way it will do something to make daunting to hit tanks, won't help much against Jedi (it's not like he needs help against them, but it will help against other teams.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how useless this Zeta is? Even versus JML teams which SEE is designed to fight, JML and JKR both can ignore taunt.
If not replaced, at least this should be made an omega and Zeta mats refunded
Remember that SET, the only tank that works well with SEE, regains taunt from his unique whenever SEE uses link anyways, since it counts as 2 abilities.
I just tried to beat SEE four times with my JMLS once, and my Rey three times. Lost all four attempts. Not sure what the crying over him is all about! He is a hard counter to light side teams. Seems plenty powerful enough to me!
I just tried to beat SEE four times with my JMLS once, and my Rey three times. Lost all four attempts. Not sure what the crying over him is all about! He is a hard counter to light side teams. Seems plenty powerful enough to me!
Just save rey ult for SEE ult... or spam WW.
the reys on my shard all have 90%+ win rates vs my SEE.
I just tried to beat SEE four times with my JMLS once, and my Rey three times. Lost all four attempts. Not sure what the crying over him is all about! He is a hard counter to light side teams. Seems plenty powerful enough to me!
Send Rey in alone and annihilate him then, not hard
I just tried to beat SEE four times with my JMLS once, and my Rey three times. Lost all four attempts. Not sure what the crying over him is all about! He is a hard counter to light side teams. Seems plenty powerful enough to me!
Just solo him with Rey
Or put JMLS under Bastila and Wat
Not sure what the crying over him is all about! He is a hard counter to light side teams. Seems plenty powerful enough to me!
I'd suggest reading through the thread then
Truly no offense intended, but there's a difference between losing due to poor tactics and gameplay, and losing due to the inherent weakness of a character's kit and being almost incapable of climbing vs other GLs as a result. There's a reason why SEE is performing so poorly statistically in arena.
I just want to know if future darkside GLs will continue to crap on their own squads.
Unlikely. CG is a business and usually needs to make more money off of GLs, and future GLs will have to salvage the tarnished GL tag. Instead, they can keep SEE weak and the future DS GLs will obliterate SEE even more than SLKR does.
In other words, SEE is a really poor investment relatively speaking not only compared to other GLs, but compared to saving resources for future GLs. Like most niche counter squads (such as GG nuke squad vs DR), SEE will be pushed far below the meta and will probably wind up having to climb through a wall of 100 SLKRs by using GAS/5s cheese counter.
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Not only is SEE seemingly all but absent from arena - pretty damning in itself - there doesn't even seem to be any consensus about what his optimum squad is. SET seems mandatory (so why wasn't this character one of SEE's prerequisites?) other than that I don't know really. SEE is quite the enigma.
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
So why are the other GLs all over high end arena and SEE is largely absent? I still haven't seen one in my shard yet. 2 of my guild mates got him and took him to r7. They have now switched back to using Rey. Some investment.
Check out the meta report. The data for SEE is really poor.
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
It was a rey team with CLS, not exactly the optimal Rey team even before Jedi titans were a thing. This is just an example, not one thing with conclusive proof. It's evidence towards a description of SEE's power level, faulty kit, and weak mechanics. If you want to compare Rey with SEE, just look at what happens to each of them in, say, a battle against SLKR.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
He is
° The only GL that can be solo'd.
° A 'devastating attacker' that puts out less damage than all of the other 3 GLs (only more than JML when SEE is fighting Jedi).
° The GL that has the most F2P counters.
° The GL that helps his team the least; in fact hurts his team in some facets.
Just because someone managed to beat Rey with the geos too, is a red herring argument.
He needs more than a "tweak" he needs a significant buff and re-work. And CG needs to either settle on him being a devastating attacker and buff his damage output, or a tank and buff his survivability.
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
So why are the other GLs all over high end arena and SEE is largely absent? I still haven't seen one in my shard yet. 2 of my guild mates got him and took him to r7. They have now switched back to using Rey. Some investment.
Check out the meta report. The data for SEE is really poor.
because arena is flooded with slkr and he is the direct counter
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
So why are the other GLs all over high end arena and SEE is largely absent? I still haven't seen one in my shard yet. 2 of my guild mates got him and took him to r7. They have now switched back to using Rey. Some investment.
Check out the meta report. The data for SEE is really poor.
because arena is flooded with slkr and he is the direct counter
wait till more jml pop up and see see rising
JML can be beaten by Kylo and Rey on offense. No need for SEE as is.
Since Kyno wanted Video footage of teams beating SEE, I've searched for a few of them, as far as I can tell every SEE in the Videos has Ult and maxed out abilities and isn't badly modded.
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
So why are the other GLs all over high end arena and SEE is largely absent? I still haven't seen one in my shard yet. 2 of my guild mates got him and took him to r7. They have now switched back to using Rey. Some investment.
Check out the meta report. The data for SEE is really poor.
because arena is flooded with slkr and he is the direct counter
wait till more jml pop up and see see rising
JML can be beaten by Kylo and Rey on offense. No need for SEE as is.
so no need for jml as well. I saw vids from see beating kylo, rey and jml, so there is that.
see makes it a lot easier to beat jml and compensates lesser mods
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
He is
° The only GL that can be solo'd.
° A 'devastating attacker' that puts out less damage than all of the other 3 GLs (only more than JML when SEE is fighting Jedi).
° The GL that has the most F2P counters.
° The GL that helps his team the least; in fact hurts his team in some facets.
Just because someone managed to beat Rey with the geos too, is a red herring argument.
He needs more than a "tweak" he needs a significant buff and re-work. And CG needs to either settle on him being a devastating attacker and buff his damage output, or a tank and buff his survivability.
he did at least 4 videos with geos against rey with a different line up.
and just because someone managed to beat see with geos says nothing at all
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
He is
° The only GL that can be solo'd.
° A 'devastating attacker' that puts out less damage than all of the other 3 GLs (only more than JML when SEE is fighting Jedi).
° The GL that has the most F2P counters.
° The GL that helps his team the least; in fact hurts his team in some facets.
Just because someone managed to beat Rey with the geos too, is a red herring argument.
He needs more than a "tweak" he needs a significant buff and re-work. And CG needs to either settle on him being a devastating attacker and buff his damage output, or a tank and buff his survivability.
he did at least 4 videos with geos against rey with a different line up.
and just because someone managed to beat see with geos says nothing at all
Well it does, because Geos can't beat SLKR or JML, so that puts Rey and SEE at a disadvantage to a f2p team.
Add in all the other disadvantages, like the myriad of other teams that can beat SEE, the fact that SEE can be solo'd by SLKR and Rey, that SEE can only gain ultimate charge in the leader slot, that his leadership HURTS his team, that SLKR is a better Sith leader than SEE, that winning matchups with SEE usually result in only him alive (reduced banners), and it becomes clear that SEE is FAR behind the other GLs in usability and power.
Anyone that argues otherwise, man, I want what you are smoking.
But poor SEE (Devastating attacker) is lucky if he can get over 10m damage in phase 2, and that's with sith empire that can do 15-20m damage on their own without SEE in phase 3 and 4.
Replies
Those changes would finally make SEE competitive.
Probably. Aside from Sith Empire, triumvirat, and the new Imperial troopers, most of the dark side heros in this game are garbage.
I think a couple minor tweaks to JML are also in order, but I’ll save those for another thread.
lol
Ok garbage is a strong word, but most are not meta capable anymore, light side have all been much more recently updated. And then there are some dark side that garbage is a good word for, like Tuskens. They severely need a buff, especially with Tuskens being heros in this season of the TV show
NS are still a top team
BH are tier 1 material capable of taking out other tier 1 teams like Padme or DR
Geos are tier 2 and still one of the most common teams to test new chars/teams against
KRU (with Hux) is tier 2 stuff that often gets underestimated (beefy KRU and Hux shutting down TM gains)
GG is one of the standard tier 1 defense teams
Vader+friends is one of the most common Rey/SLKR counters
and then there are the teams you already mentioned: SE - tier 1, Sith trio - tier 2 and troopers tier 2 (maybe even 1)
Saying that "most dark side heros in this game are garbage" is just nonsense.
Should read:
... And Sith/DS Support gain stealth and Sith/DS Attackers gain Offense Up.
This fix would allow to protect traya, nihilus, bsf (or thrawn) and get some damage vs all the defense Support other GLs offer for their Team. It would also buff a bit the damage of the "devasting attacker" ...
Both are also canon, Sith hide in shadows until they reveal themself with full Power.
Add "DS tank allies get retribution, defense up, health up and recover 50% protection. Tanks call SEE to assist if the enemy is deceived"
That way it will do something to make daunting to hit tanks, won't help much against Jedi (it's not like he needs help against them, but it will help against other teams.
Remember that SET, the only tank that works well with SEE, regains taunt from his unique whenever SEE uses link anyways, since it counts as 2 abilities.
Just save rey ult for SEE ult... or spam WW.
the reys on my shard all have 90%+ win rates vs my SEE.
Send Rey in alone and annihilate him then, not hard
Just solo him with Rey
Or put JMLS under Bastila and Wat
Ez win
Truly no offense intended, but there's a difference between losing due to poor tactics and gameplay, and losing due to the inherent weakness of a character's kit and being almost incapable of climbing vs other GLs as a result. There's a reason why SEE is performing so poorly statistically in arena.
Unlikely. CG is a business and usually needs to make more money off of GLs, and future GLs will have to salvage the tarnished GL tag. Instead, they can keep SEE weak and the future DS GLs will obliterate SEE even more than SLKR does.
In other words, SEE is a really poor investment relatively speaking not only compared to other GLs, but compared to saving resources for future GLs. Like most niche counter squads (such as GG nuke squad vs DR), SEE will be pushed far below the meta and will probably wind up having to climb through a wall of 100 SLKRs by using GAS/5s cheese counter.
First Video is a compilation:
Here is two videos of geonosians beating SEE, also with Ult and maxed out and as far as I can tell decent enough mods:
If you want to check the particular videos of the compilation, you can see in the bottom right corner of the video the name of the YouTube Channel that posted them.
Hope this helps!
and the same guy showed a video of his geos destroying a rey team, maybe I can find some footage of geos beating gml and slkr.
people make see worse than he is.
maybe he needs a tweak, but nothing too strong
So why are the other GLs all over high end arena and SEE is largely absent? I still haven't seen one in my shard yet. 2 of my guild mates got him and took him to r7. They have now switched back to using Rey. Some investment.
Check out the meta report. The data for SEE is really poor.
It was a rey team with CLS, not exactly the optimal Rey team even before Jedi titans were a thing. This is just an example, not one thing with conclusive proof. It's evidence towards a description of SEE's power level, faulty kit, and weak mechanics. If you want to compare Rey with SEE, just look at what happens to each of them in, say, a battle against SLKR.
He is
° The only GL that can be solo'd.
° A 'devastating attacker' that puts out less damage than all of the other 3 GLs (only more than JML when SEE is fighting Jedi).
° The GL that has the most F2P counters.
° The GL that helps his team the least; in fact hurts his team in some facets.
Just because someone managed to beat Rey with the geos too, is a red herring argument.
He needs more than a "tweak" he needs a significant buff and re-work. And CG needs to either settle on him being a devastating attacker and buff his damage output, or a tank and buff his survivability.
because arena is flooded with slkr and he is the direct counter
wait till more jml pop up and see see rising
JML can be beaten by Kylo and Rey on offense. No need for SEE as is.
so no need for jml as well. I saw vids from see beating kylo, rey and jml, so there is that.
see makes it a lot easier to beat jml and compensates lesser mods
he did at least 4 videos with geos against rey with a different line up.
and just because someone managed to beat see with geos says nothing at all
Well it does, because Geos can't beat SLKR or JML, so that puts Rey and SEE at a disadvantage to a f2p team.
Add in all the other disadvantages, like the myriad of other teams that can beat SEE, the fact that SEE can be solo'd by SLKR and Rey, that SEE can only gain ultimate charge in the leader slot, that his leadership HURTS his team, that SLKR is a better Sith leader than SEE, that winning matchups with SEE usually result in only him alive (reduced banners), and it becomes clear that SEE is FAR behind the other GLs in usability and power.
Anyone that argues otherwise, man, I want what you are smoking.
SLKR (immense attacker) - we all know can solo the whole sith raid.
Rey (support) - can solo phase 1 and 2 for 100m+ damage
But poor SEE (Devastating attacker) is lucky if he can get over 10m damage in phase 2, and that's with sith empire that can do 15-20m damage on their own without SEE in phase 3 and 4.