Sidious is absolutely terrible, although even Sid's lead puts out more damage than SEE's lead. Instead of getting a rework during the CW era, Sid was neglected and now players are asked to R7 him. It's a fair price for a real GL, but SEE doesn't seem like a real GL.
I'm certainly not doing anything drastic until I play more climbing to the top of arena with DR every day, since if I got SEE and wanted to even get to the few JML squads at the top to be even be able to use my SEE, that's what I'd have to do anyway.
I was ok with Maul - he's dated, slow and lacks damage but isn't altogether awful. RG is a bitter pill to swallow. Krennic isn't anyone's idea of a character to relic but his damage is ok. Sideous however is absolutely terrible. His damage output in itself is laughable. He's the Windu of the Sith - cannonically important but utterly lamentable.
I like that people come here saying "SEE is fine lol, dunno what are you talking about, lost to him as JML - just avoid SLKR". If you are homeless - just buy a house. Imagine having him as an only legendary - what a piece of trash, if you were unable to defeat SLKR before him nothing will change, because all SLKR counters with SEE require either SE team or Vader. And guess what - Vader can defeat SLKR on his own and SEE isnt useful here, DR (SE) counter also can beat SLKR without SEE.
Imagine wanting your GL to be able to at least be useful in arena vs other GLs. Not vs only specific with a lot of jedi - vs all types. At least improve winrate of counters vs Dark side.
Imagine having a GL that can operate from its own requirements and a GL that doesnt need 4-5 more relic units. I guess JML also suffers from that, but his reqiurement are so heavy that people that gone for him already have all the legendary jedi. Sure Rey improves drastically with titans, but resistance team with Rey is already strong. And we all know what a beast FO slkr team is.
Honestly, I'd rather r7 Savage.
Krennic has an interesting lead + RG, Tarkin and 2 other empire and you get a clean up crew or back wall team
I don't disagree but crikey that's a lot of resources for a back line squad.
It is, but they need to be geared anyway for SEE and that's basically the only use i see for them. Adding unused empire like tie pilot or leftover troopers fills a slot and i guess its better than not getting any use out of them. RG can even be used as a tank vs rey with slow finn.
@HolicFan good catch on the Linked bug not preventing GAS crits. This definitely looks like a bug.
As far as using SEE with DR or Vader as a counter to SLKR--SEE makes these counters even less reliable (Vader) or sabotages them and makes them almost completely unusable (Sith Empire). Kind of horrific.
I like that people come here saying "SEE is fine lol, dunno what are you talking about, lost to him as JML - just avoid SLKR". If you are homeless - just buy a house. Imagine having him as an only legendary - what a piece of trash, if you were unable to defeat SLKR before him nothing will change, because all SLKR counters with SEE require either SE team or Vader. And guess what - Vader can defeat SLKR on his own and SEE isnt useful here, DR (SE) counter also can beat SLKR without SEE.
Imagine wanting your GL to be able to at least be useful in arena vs other GLs. Not vs only specific with a lot of jedi - vs all types. At least improve winrate of counters vs Dark side.
Imagine having a GL that can operate from its own requirements and a GL that doesnt need 4-5 more relic units. I guess JML also suffers from that, but his reqiurement are so heavy that people that gone for him already have all the legendary jedi. Sure Rey improves drastically with titans, but resistance team with Rey is already strong. And we all know what a beast FO slkr team is.
I like that people come here saying "SEE is fine lol, dunno what are you talking about, lost to him as JML - just avoid SLKR". If you are homeless - just buy a house. Imagine having him as an only legendary - what a piece of trash, if you were unable to defeat SLKR before him nothing will change, because all SLKR counters with SEE require either SE team or Vader. And guess what - Vader can defeat SLKR on his own and SEE isnt useful here, DR (SE) counter also can beat SLKR without SEE.
Imagine wanting your GL to be able to at least be useful in arena vs other GLs. Not vs only specific with a lot of jedi - vs all types. At least improve winrate of counters vs Dark side.
Imagine having a GL that can operate from its own requirements and a GL that doesnt need 4-5 more relic units. I guess JML also suffers from that, but his reqiurement are so heavy that people that gone for him already have all the legendary jedi. Sure Rey improves drastically with titans, but resistance team with Rey is already strong. And we all know what a beast FO slkr team is.
Kyno got another bug with link.
Already saw this one. Passed along, but as always its probably best to follow the correct channels, if anyone cares.
I like that people come here saying "SEE is fine lol, dunno what are you talking about, lost to him as JML - just avoid SLKR". If you are homeless - just buy a house. Imagine having him as an only legendary - what a piece of trash, if you were unable to defeat SLKR before him nothing will change, because all SLKR counters with SEE require either SE team or Vader. And guess what - Vader can defeat SLKR on his own and SEE isnt useful here, DR (SE) counter also can beat SLKR without SEE.
Imagine wanting your GL to be able to at least be useful in arena vs other GLs. Not vs only specific with a lot of jedi - vs all types. At least improve winrate of counters vs Dark side.
Imagine having a GL that can operate from its own requirements and a GL that doesnt need 4-5 more relic units. I guess JML also suffers from that, but his reqiurement are so heavy that people that gone for him already have all the legendary jedi. Sure Rey improves drastically with titans, but resistance team with Rey is already strong. And we all know what a beast FO slkr team is.
Kyno got another bug with link.
Already saw this one. Passed along, but as always its probably best to follow the correct channels, if anyone cares.
Am I misreading something? Can't see even one SEE team in top 10 or top 100 arena meta report on swgoh.gg
This is preposterous!
You have to look at the statistics for each character manually. Here's the current GL stats as of 11/29:
JML
7441 @ lvl 85
5972 in top 100 arena (80%)
4681 in top 10 arena (62%)
2562 rank 1 arena (34%)
SEE
3450 @ lvl 85
1027 in top 100 arena (29%)
645 in top 10 arena (18%)
331 rank 1 arena (9%)
SLKR
25226 @ lvl 85
15799 in top 100 arena (62%)
4326 in top 10 arena (17%)
2082 rank 1 arena (8%)
Rey
22530 @ lvl 85
13777 in top 100 arena (61%)
4006 in top 10 arena (17%)
1930 rank 1 arena (9%)
The data tells us a number of things.
1. JML is far more popular than SEE for whatever reason; I would bet because everyone knows SEE is terrible.
2. SEE's numbers have improved ever so slightly from 2 weeks ago; I would bet this is because more SEE owners are coming up with hack ways to make him more viable.
3. SLKR and Rey's numbers are rapidly dropping as JML's numbers are rising; I would bet that is both because JML can easily beat SLKR and Rey, and also because most SLKR/Rey owners have switched to using JML. If I take a look at every single JML user in my Arena top 20 for example, every single one of them also owns SLKR, Rey, or Both, except for one guy in my shard at rank 17 that only owns JML snd no other GLs.
4. And this last point is quite sad and speaks volumes - if JML is so popular in Arena (62% alone are in Arena top 10!!), and SEE is the direct EZ-mode counter to JML, why are only 18% of SEE in Arena top 10?? SEE should have no problems climbing! This proves he's horrible on defense and can't hold, and drops rank rapidly.
Well yeah, there's really no reason to start grinding for him so people don't even bother...
- Flawed kit
- Struggling in arena
- Far cheaper teams out there to 4/4 Geo
- Bleeds banners on offense, doesn't hold well on defence
Perhaps it has something to do with TB's? Maybe people are going for JMLS as he helps out in Geo LS TB? Seeing as that is the hardest content we currently have! Also, maybe people had already set their course toward JMLS by going for JKL? A lot of the requirements marry up to one another. Which certainly would entice a person to go the JMLS route.
The same people constantly spamming this thread gives the indication that the end of the world is approaching simply because they pursued SEE.
Stats tell you numbers, not why people got the toons they did. I know I went for JMLS simply because I had already expended a lot of time and effort in getting JKL, and thought that JMLS would improve my Geo LS TB performance. And it certainly did!
I went for Rey the first go-round and still regret that decision. At that time, Rey was the consensus better toon between the two! Lol. Time will tell where all these GLs stand.
Well as someone who has all GL and just finished JML (actually still missing his basic zeta) I have just tried him out in arena tonight for the first time.
Wow what a difference! He is way more fun to play!
You will see a down tick and up tick between SEE and JMl lol.
Only time I’ll be pulling SEE off the bench is for odd time I want to not do a mirror match.
JML destroys slkr without a single lose and the team barley gets a turn. And Rey is the same. The difference between SEE and JML is night and day.
Well as someone who has all GL and just finished JML (actually still missing his basic zeta) I have just tried him out in arena tonight for the first time.
Wow what a difference!
JML destroys slkr without a single lose and the team barley gets a turn. And Rey is the same. The difference between SEE and JML is night and day.
You are just verifying what we all know.
If CG doesn't fix SEE it will be my final straw. My 3 friends that got me into this game already quit and went to MSF a few months ago; I didn't because I didn't want to lose nearly 5 years of progress . But the disregard, discount, and evasion of this problem is just discommoding.
Perhaps it has something to do with TB's? Maybe people are going for JMLS as he helps out in Geo LS TB? Seeing as that is the hardest content we currently have! Also, maybe people had already set their course toward JMLS by going for JKL? A lot of the requirements marry up to one another. Which certainly would entice a person to go the JMLS route.
The same people constantly spamming this thread gives the indication that the end of the world is approaching simply because they pursued SEE.
Stats tell you numbers, not why people got the toons they did. I know I went for JMLS simply because I had already expended a lot of time and effort in getting JKL, and thought that JMLS would improve my Geo LS TB performance. And it certainly did!
I went for Rey the first go-round and still regret that decision. At that time, Rey was the consensus better toon between the two! Lol. Time will tell where all these GLs stand.
It was true when we speak about the first 3-4 weeks since new Gls were released, people went for Jml as smb was closer and definitely for LSTB, but about two months already passed, you can check farming stats of newly-release toons required for JML and SEE,
Now we have about 7500 JML vs 3500 SEE, and according to required farmed toons for SEE, in a couple of months the difference will be much bigger. By the way the number of SLKR raised for about 2000 for the last two months. As soon as new GLs/Meta will be announced players will forget about SEE as a nightmare and start farming new toons, on the other hand new players will choose first definitely SLKR and JML for farming.
Actually i see it very strange, CG knew that most players would go for JML due to LSTB, what was the point to release SEE feeble, the popularity of JML was predictable.
Knowing disastrous state of SEE makes players switch to any toons for farming and avoid him, as expensive but useless toy or store resources for smth better.
We're still early in new gl run. This will keep shifting in favor of jml, which will make see somewhat emerge as a counter in arenas (ofc not evening things out)
We're still early in new gl run. This will keep shifting in favor of jml, which will make see somewhat emerge as a counter in arenas (ofc not evening things out)
My teammates successfully counter JML with Kylo+ SE and REY, I've posted some videos from our guild here Kylo + SE vs JML, no emergency will occur
We're still early in new gl run. This will keep shifting in favor of jml, which will make see somewhat emerge as a counter in arenas (ofc not evening things out)
My teammates successfully counter JML with Kylo+ SE and REY, I've posted some videos from our guild here Kylo + SE vs JML, no emergency will occur
Kylo/rey owners that has jml are also shifting to jml in arena. Either way, we are going towards a territory where majority will be jmls and people switching teams to avoid the mirror.
We're still early in new gl run. This will keep shifting in favor of jml, which will make see somewhat emerge as a counter in arenas (ofc not evening things out)
My teammates successfully counter JML with Kylo+ SE and REY, I've posted some videos from our guild here Kylo + SE vs JML, no emergency will occur
Kylo/rey owners that has jml are also shifting to jml in arena. Either way, we are going towards a territory where majority will be jmls and people switching teams to avoid the mirror.
Yeh, jml will become the majority soon on arena, and SEE counters JML, that facts are unquestionable, but SEE cannot be left for defense as for defense he is much worse than for offense, that means that players will have 2 ways to use him and buy additional attempts or just use for example valid Sith team + Kylo and leave this team for defense.
Players come to arena to earn crystals but not to spend them for switching between GLs and use additional non-free attempts to leave good teams for defense, that's why 100 % players will search for a team good both for offense and defense, that's why this RPS theory was doomed to failure, and we see now even far less SEE on Arena from already farmed, people don't use him actively due to obvious reasons on arena. You farm for example Kylo or Rey and you are already good both for offense and for defense. And you farm SEE and just forget about him till some rare events take place that don't require too much powerful toons
Replies
I'm certainly not doing anything drastic until I play more climbing to the top of arena with DR every day, since if I got SEE and wanted to even get to the few JML squads at the top to be even be able to use my SEE, that's what I'd have to do anyway.
Edit for appalling Sideous-esque level grammar.
Krennic has an interesting lead + RG, Tarkin and 2 other empire and you get a clean up crew or back wall team
Lol his link actually is poorly coded even if its WAI that its useless vs weak tank or 1 unit
I like that people come here saying "SEE is fine lol, dunno what are you talking about, lost to him as JML - just avoid SLKR". If you are homeless - just buy a house. Imagine having him as an only legendary - what a piece of trash, if you were unable to defeat SLKR before him nothing will change, because all SLKR counters with SEE require either SE team or Vader. And guess what - Vader can defeat SLKR on his own and SEE isnt useful here, DR (SE) counter also can beat SLKR without SEE.
Imagine wanting your GL to be able to at least be useful in arena vs other GLs. Not vs only specific with a lot of jedi - vs all types. At least improve winrate of counters vs Dark side.
Imagine having a GL that can operate from its own requirements and a GL that doesnt need 4-5 more relic units. I guess JML also suffers from that, but his reqiurement are so heavy that people that gone for him already have all the legendary jedi. Sure Rey improves drastically with titans, but resistance team with Rey is already strong. And we all know what a beast FO slkr team is.
I don't disagree but crikey that's a lot of resources for a back line squad.
It is, but they need to be geared anyway for SEE and that's basically the only use i see for them. Adding unused empire like tie pilot or leftover troopers fills a slot and i guess its better than not getting any use out of them. RG can even be used as a tank vs rey with slow finn.
As far as using SEE with DR or Vader as a counter to SLKR--SEE makes these counters even less reliable (Vader) or sabotages them and makes them almost completely unusable (Sith Empire). Kind of horrific.
@Kyno got another bug with link.
Am I misreading something? Can't see even one SEE team in top 10 or top 100 arena meta report on swgoh.gg
This is preposterous!
Already saw this one. Passed along, but as always its probably best to follow the correct channels, if anyone cares.
Not that there's anything to indicate CG cares.
You have to look at the statistics for each character manually. Here's the current GL stats as of 11/29:
JML
7441 @ lvl 85
5972 in top 100 arena (80%)
4681 in top 10 arena (62%)
2562 rank 1 arena (34%)
SEE
3450 @ lvl 85
1027 in top 100 arena (29%)
645 in top 10 arena (18%)
331 rank 1 arena (9%)
SLKR
25226 @ lvl 85
15799 in top 100 arena (62%)
4326 in top 10 arena (17%)
2082 rank 1 arena (8%)
Rey
22530 @ lvl 85
13777 in top 100 arena (61%)
4006 in top 10 arena (17%)
1930 rank 1 arena (9%)
The data tells us a number of things.
1. JML is far more popular than SEE for whatever reason; I would bet because everyone knows SEE is terrible.
2. SEE's numbers have improved ever so slightly from 2 weeks ago; I would bet this is because more SEE owners are coming up with hack ways to make him more viable.
3. SLKR and Rey's numbers are rapidly dropping as JML's numbers are rising; I would bet that is both because JML can easily beat SLKR and Rey, and also because most SLKR/Rey owners have switched to using JML. If I take a look at every single JML user in my Arena top 20 for example, every single one of them also owns SLKR, Rey, or Both, except for one guy in my shard at rank 17 that only owns JML snd no other GLs.
4. And this last point is quite sad and speaks volumes - if JML is so popular in Arena (62% alone are in Arena top 10!!), and SEE is the direct EZ-mode counter to JML, why are only 18% of SEE in Arena top 10?? SEE should have no problems climbing! This proves he's horrible on defense and can't hold, and drops rank rapidly.
i was too
- Flawed kit
- Struggling in arena
- Far cheaper teams out there to 4/4 Geo
- Bleeds banners on offense, doesn't hold well on defence
The same people constantly spamming this thread gives the indication that the end of the world is approaching simply because they pursued SEE.
Stats tell you numbers, not why people got the toons they did. I know I went for JMLS simply because I had already expended a lot of time and effort in getting JKL, and thought that JMLS would improve my Geo LS TB performance. And it certainly did!
I went for Rey the first go-round and still regret that decision. At that time, Rey was the consensus better toon between the two! Lol. Time will tell where all these GLs stand.
Wow what a difference! He is way more fun to play!
You will see a down tick and up tick between SEE and JMl lol.
Only time I’ll be pulling SEE off the bench is for odd time I want to not do a mirror match.
JML destroys slkr without a single lose and the team barley gets a turn. And Rey is the same. The difference between SEE and JML is night and day.
You are just verifying what we all know.
If CG doesn't fix SEE it will be my final straw. My 3 friends that got me into this game already quit and went to MSF a few months ago; I didn't because I didn't want to lose nearly 5 years of progress . But the disregard, discount, and evasion of this problem is just discommoding.
It was true when we speak about the first 3-4 weeks since new Gls were released, people went for Jml as smb was closer and definitely for LSTB, but about two months already passed, you can check farming stats of newly-release toons required for JML and SEE,
Now we have about 7500 JML vs 3500 SEE, and according to required farmed toons for SEE, in a couple of months the difference will be much bigger. By the way the number of SLKR raised for about 2000 for the last two months. As soon as new GLs/Meta will be announced players will forget about SEE as a nightmare and start farming new toons, on the other hand new players will choose first definitely SLKR and JML for farming.
Actually i see it very strange, CG knew that most players would go for JML due to LSTB, what was the point to release SEE feeble, the popularity of JML was predictable.
Knowing disastrous state of SEE makes players switch to any toons for farming and avoid him, as expensive but useless toy or store resources for smth better.
We're still early in new gl run. This will keep shifting in favor of jml, which will make see somewhat emerge as a counter in arenas (ofc not evening things out)
My teammates successfully counter JML with Kylo+ SE and REY, I've posted some videos from our guild here Kylo + SE vs JML, no emergency will occur
Kylo/rey owners that has jml are also shifting to jml in arena. Either way, we are going towards a territory where majority will be jmls and people switching teams to avoid the mirror.
Yeh, jml will become the majority soon on arena, and SEE counters JML, that facts are unquestionable, but SEE cannot be left for defense as for defense he is much worse than for offense, that means that players will have 2 ways to use him and buy additional attempts or just use for example valid Sith team + Kylo and leave this team for defense.