SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Not sure why SEE is the only one whos ultimate is a big tradeoff, when the ult isnt even that great to begin with.
  • Find yourself a Sith GL that stacks HP and bonus prot and controls and annihilates enemies as well as my G11 Nihilus (insert Ahnald video title about my mediocre-mod g11 Nihilus being GODLY IN TERRITORY BATTLES, UNLIMITED POWER!!!)

    aat5pvbrablk.png
  • Esharan wrote: »
    Is it possible that his mastery stacking from his leadership is bugged/Not working?

    it works... just stacking mastery does literally nothing for him. His damage goes up by such a small amount... it's really pathetic...

    in assault battles... the enemy jedi took about 20 turns while deceived and his damage went up by about 4k...

    His scaling on his basic is garbage and his lead is pretty trash for damage... and it gives potency when he doesn't even need it with his plethora of valuable debuffs XDXDXD
  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    The mastery might work, it just might not be obvious. SLKR has like half a dozen things that make him a good attacker:
    • great mastery stacking
    • a good mastery that provides CD
    • extra crit and CD from his lead
    • and decent damage multipliers on his abilities.

    SEE has very gradual mastery "stacking" and none of these other things, including low damage multipliers on his ultimate basic as well. Edit: the lead-based incremental mastery growth also resets to base levels after each wave/phase, I think.

    So SEE's damage increases are like sucking a poorly-blended chunky shake through a narrow straw, while SLKR's damage increases are like drinking an XL McFlurry in 3 seconds through those giant stirring-spoon-straws and going into a brainfreeze-induced coma.

    I don't know if brainfreezes can actually result in any serious health issues, but you get the point.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    SEE STRUGGLES TO BEAT CHALLENGE TIER 3 of places of power. This is a major problem. The most powerful sith in the game struggles to get past wave 5.. @CG_Doja_Fett it’s time to get specific about whether the power level of SEE is intended. If it is, good luck getting anyone dump resources int GL’s in the future, if it isn’t, it needs to be addressed now, not later. There is enough data to move on this or at least come out and say “we are not happy with SEE’s performance and he will be receiving tweaks.”

    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    Although I agree that early unlocks are people that decided before we saw him perform, with the “similar power level” as other GLs being the expectation set by CG. But I will tell you, those numbers are exactly in line with his strength.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • LordDunbar
    477 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    Not necessarily true...

    My guild mate has been sitting on a potential SEE for a week now. He just needs to finish Piett to relic and that's it and he can get SEE. Realistically he could do it in 3 days tops. But with the SEE info that has surfaced, he has given up and stopped wasting mats/time. Yes, he did decide to go for SEE, months ago (or whenever new GLs were announced), but he's been sitting on it and gave up. If there a more players like him, the number of SEE owners on the charts would be higher.

    Personally I would have given up on SEE too unless I saw a buff,had I not already unlocked him. The imperial troopers you get from farming him are way more useful than he is. Save my gear that I'd spent on SEE to go to JKL amd GAS instead, far more useful heros
  • Sewpot
    2010 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    How could you say they don’t? I’m one of those 300 and don’t bother to use SEE that I invested a truck load of resources into.
    Since only a small few have Luke in my shard I don’t need to use SEE.
    So those numbers would be much higher now but are still low because of all the data coming out about how terrible he is.
    I will say you are a little correct saying “not in any way reflects his abilities” but will finish by saying it’s the strength of those abilities that we are concerned about.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    Not necessarily true...

    My guild mate has been sitting on a potential SEE for a week now. He just needs to finish Piett to relic and that's it and he can get SEE. Realistically he could do it in 3 days tops. But with the SEE info that has surfaced, he has given up and stopped wasting mats/time. Yes, he did decide to go for SEE, months ago (or whenever new GLs were announced), but he's been sitting on it and gave up. If there a more players like him, the number of SEE owners on the charts would be higher.
    ...

    That right there is where many of the early unlocks come from. People who made those choices and went with it.

    That is always where the early unlock numbers come from.

    As they play out from "here" (those values have been steady for almost a week) we will see people who made the choice based on other factors.

    But to say the early unlock numbers are based on any actual feedback loop of game play is just not accurate.

    GLs have a long cycle to them, especially at the beginning.
  • Kelthuzil wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    Not necessarily true...

    My guild mate has been sitting on a potential SEE for a week now. He just needs to finish Piett to relic and that's it and he can get SEE. Realistically he could do it in 3 days tops. But with the SEE info that has surfaced, he has given up and stopped wasting mats/time. Yes, he did decide to go for SEE, months ago (or whenever new GLs were announced), but he's been sitting on it and gave up. If there a more players like him, the number of SEE owners on the charts would be higher.

    Personally I would have given up on SEE too unless I saw a buff,had I not already unlocked him. The imperial troopers you get from farming him are way more useful than he is. Save my gear that I'd spent on SEE to go to JKL amd GAS instead, far more useful heros



    This. Myself and 5 others in my guild alone were actively working at see, and seeing the current state he’s in have said no thanks.

    I’ll finish my troopers and piett, thankfully I had the foresight to wait on sidious maul etc, see is in no way worth the gp hit for those utterly useless characters at relic.

    Yeah. I'm pretty close to meeting the reqs for SEE but am holding off on G13 / relics for Sideous, RG and Krennic given the overwhelming negative feedback on SEE. I have taken Maul to r3 🤦‍♂️ but I do at least like him as a character even if he is badly outdated.
    SEE just doesn't seem to justify relicing up garbage characters.
  • A hell of a lot of people are going to be holding off now until CG make an official statement on the matter I recon. I already know a few doing so in my guild as well.

    Simple truth of it is, he is the worst GL right now.
    Rey, Luke and Kylo teams can all beat SEE team comps, Kylo can even 1v5 him.
    He is terrible on defense and just cant keep his team alive as he has no defensive bonuses or damage bonuses on his leadership like the other 3 GL's have.
    SEE has the most counters to his teams.
    SEE does literally less damage than my Imperial Troopers on his Basic and Special. Quite a lot of 2 year old, 3 year old characters out do him on damage output.
    His Ultimate isn't even that good, an it requires a massive sacrifice to his already limited survivability.

    Right now, I dont see his unlock numbers going up a whole lot until CG say something on the matter. Its clear to most people right now that he definitely needs a buff of some sort.
  • RAYRAY
    2761 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    I went for see because I have Rey. I thought it would be a good idea to get a DS GL and I figured it wouldn’t be too risky to dive in because CG HAS SET A PRECEDENT that was basically of a GL wasn’t up to snuff, they would make changes to ensure they were up to snuff. We are in the very painful period of finding out the SEE is woefully underpowered in most scenarios, although reasonably balanced in a few very specific situations (vs JML on offense).

    After all of the testing I have done, I am convinced that SEE is not up to snuff. The good news is that he wouldn’t need many things to make him good enough. More damage, ignoring taunts on link, maintaining “so be it, Jedi” post ultimate, etc. so many good ideas have been shared. At this point, due to Precedent that was already set, I have 100% expectation that SEE will be fixed, because he needs to be fixed. The only problem now is the timing. If they continue to wait, nobody is going to continue to rush to get him, which will negatively impact the bottom line.
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Esharan wrote: »
    The problem is his ultimate ability against non-linked enemies does absolutely dog s*** damage. In some cases it does not even move an opponent's protection bar.. I can take video of this if you'd like, suffice to say the damage from his ultimate ability against non-linked foes is useless and bad.

    I usually keep two enemies linked until right before Unlimited Power use and then change the links to two others. The first two will die from no protection and then the second two die from being linked. SEE’s damage is bad, but if you use change links you should be able to kill off 4 enemies at least.

  • To everyone modding SEE for Offense - since he stacks Mastery and not Offense, you may get more mileage from a Crit Damage set. That should add its multiplier to the damage from Mastery as well as his natural Offense.

    It does feel like that level of Mastery stacking - doubled Mastery for SEE in 7 Decieved/Linked turns, tripled in 12, quadrupled in 15, and his Ult doubles whatever value he currently has - should be doing more than what people claim to see. It’s supposed to be multiplicative, not additive.
  • Tactics Attackers Mastery gives less base damage than Agility/Strength Attackers?

    ... huh.
  • SithAmer
    227 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Speaking for myself, I am continuing my farm for Piett but have not and will not proceed to gear any of the required toons till I see SEE performing upto GL level. If he neither performs nor receives a buff, I will simply gear Piett and move on to something else. However, I am really angry now for spending time and energy in farming Krennics of the world. I would also be upset at losing precious time by later having to start farming for JML toons.

    Also, the hidden cost of using SEE is high. You can't use any of the toons you geared up for his event, in his team. You end up having to R5 or R7 other toons like BSF, DR, Sion, DN, SET, etc.

    Further, if something is not done, CG can kiss the rock paper scissor meta good bye since very few people will go for SEE now. This is not healthy for game balance.
    Post edited by SithAmer on
  • dgree
    520 posts Member
    Esharan wrote: »
    Kelthuzil wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Esharan wrote: »
    Also according to swgoh.gg there are get this...

    300 SEEs in game

    Compared to 2000+ JML, and over 14k Rey and SLKs.

    I wonder why. Also no one is using SEE in arena. I also wonder why?

    Please fix him CG for gods sake.

    Most if not all of the unlocks at this point in time were made by people who made their choice before any information was out there.

    Those numbers do not in any way reflect his ability

    Not necessarily true...

    My guild mate has been sitting on a potential SEE for a week now. He just needs to finish Piett to relic and that's it and he can get SEE. Realistically he could do it in 3 days tops. But with the SEE info that has surfaced, he has given up and stopped wasting mats/time. Yes, he did decide to go for SEE, months ago (or whenever new GLs were announced), but he's been sitting on it and gave up. If there a more players like him, the number of SEE owners on the charts would be higher.

    Personally I would have given up on SEE too unless I saw a buff,had I not already unlocked him. The imperial troopers you get from farming him are way more useful than he is. Save my gear that I'd spent on SEE to go to JKL amd GAS instead, far more useful heros



    This. Myself and 5 others in my guild alone were actively working at see, and seeing the current state he’s in have said no thanks.

    I’ll finish my troopers and piett, thankfully I had the foresight to wait on sidious maul etc, see is in no way worth the gp hit for those utterly useless characters at relic.

    Very wise. I was unfortunately not this smart and made the mistake of ulocking and getting him day 1 oops...

    After seeing how much of a beast SLKR was in every game mode against every team and enemy, and the fact that SEE was supposed to be a great Sith leader GL, you can be forgiven for thinking that getting a brand new GL sold as having an amazing ultimate would be a good idea. I certainly bought all those initial Piett weekly shipments (but not the next week ones). I honestly can't recall SWGOH ever having such a high cost to such a new meta toon that performs so poorly.

    If I had SEE right now, I'd still drop under all the SLKR squads, I'd still have to refresh twice with 150 crystals to climb to the top with a non-SEE counter squad over the course of 2 or so hours (until there are too many SLKR squads), I'd still have to gear Gauntlet pilots for Empire fleet to be competitive, SEE wouldn't help me at all in HSTR, and I still would need to do things in PVE like use EP lead in Assault Battles.

    Oddly enough, the getting the brand spanking new GL, if you have the resources to do so, is not a smart move (unless you already have multiple GLs), and getting SLKR despite him being old is the smart move. I know I'd feel stupid if I got SEE already because I feel stupid just waiting for the Empire/Sith GL that was coming instead of getting SLKR. This looks like a trap intended to suck up peoples' resources before the meta really changes--like a super expensive GG in a DR/Padme meta that requires R7 crap toons instead of shard shop currency.

    The ultimate insult would be if SEE remained bad but, like Sidious, was simply neglected and required for something else. It's a shame that the Sith faction in squads and fleet had so much potential, but that there's kinda nothing here to invest in. It's a shame that major Sith enthusiasts that I know are finally getting a full Sith faction leader again but aren't excited about it.

    I don't want to strip people of all hope, and we don't know what's going to happen. But it's possible that people who wanted to play with Sith will have to be content to just use the older Sith squads and wait patiently. I'll be swimming in my stun guns and credits like Scrooge McDuck.
  • I unlocked SEE the day before yesterday, got him to r7 this morning. I don't have the ultimate yet, so let's get that out there, but based on what I've seen people saying about the ultimate and how battles have gone so far, I'm not holding out a lot of hope. I also don't have any of the other GLs.

    Every day that passes it seems like there's less of a chance we are "waiting for the right team comp" and more a chance of "he's just really underwhelming." I remember when GAS was released and I got him that first go-round. Sure there was the 5* controversy but you could feel how powerful the character was even at 5*. Hell I was pulling top 10 in arena even with a G11 GAS for a long time because he still had use. Even with that being the least "needle changing" meta in a long time, it was still a step above everything else.

    There is none of that feeling with SEE. If you mod for offense, he hits... OK. If you mod for speed... he's still way slower than every other GL. If you mod for protection... he's slightly harder to kill. It really doesn't matter what you do, he's just kind of OK. It feels like unlocking Jedi Training Rey at this point in the game. Sure she's useful, but there's just not much there anymore. And with 14 high relic characters needed the cost is obviously much higher.

    I don't know what the answer is, because the kit seems like a cool idea and a novel one too. But instead it's just exceptionally underwhelming. And I know we need to start limiting power creep a bit but this just feels like a travesty. It wasn't easy upgrading every character to get here, then sitting through a week's worth of ticket farming just to unlock him, then to have to sit through another 2 weeks to farm the ultimate that by all intents and purposes, doesn't really do much.

    I think if you're a brand new account and you unlock SEE quickly you'll be happy for a tiny bit until someone in your shard unlocks Kylo, then your tiny advantage disappears pretty quickly. But for an established account this is like unlocking an old legendary that isn't all that good anymore.
  • I unlocked SEE the day before yesterday, got him to r7 this morning. I don't have the ultimate yet, so let's get that out there, but based on what I've seen people saying about the ultimate and how battles have gone so far, I'm not holding out a lot of hope. I also don't have any of the other GLs.

    Every day that passes it seems like there's less of a chance we are "waiting for the right team comp" and more a chance of "he's just really underwhelming." I remember when GAS was released and I got him that first go-round. Sure there was the 5* controversy but you could feel how powerful the character was even at 5*. Hell I was pulling top 10 in arena even with a G11 GAS for a long time because he still had use. Even with that being the least "needle changing" meta in a long time, it was still a step above everything else.

    There is none of that feeling with SEE. If you mod for offense, he hits... OK. If you mod for speed... he's still way slower than every other GL. If you mod for protection... he's slightly harder to kill. It really doesn't matter what you do, he's just kind of OK. It feels like unlocking Jedi Training Rey at this point in the game. Sure she's useful, but there's just not much there anymore. And with 14 high relic characters needed the cost is obviously much higher.

    I don't know what the answer is, because the kit seems like a cool idea and a novel one too. But instead it's just exceptionally underwhelming. And I know we need to start limiting power creep a bit but this just feels like a travesty. It wasn't easy upgrading every character to get here, then sitting through a week's worth of ticket farming just to unlock him, then to have to sit through another 2 weeks to farm the ultimate that by all intents and purposes, doesn't really do much.

    I think if you're a brand new account and you unlock SEE quickly you'll be happy for a tiny bit until someone in your shard unlocks Kylo, then your tiny advantage disappears pretty quickly. But for an established account this is like unlocking an old legendary that isn't all that good anymore.

    SEE is deeply linked with his ultimate, more than any other GL. He lurks in the shadows accumulating power then reveals itself and bring on the storm, at least he was presented that way. If you don't have the ultimate, he just lurks.
    I do agree that so far, ultimate see users seem disappointed, no argument there. But it's unfair to judge him without his ultimate imo.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    I unlocked SEE the day before yesterday, got him to r7 this morning. I don't have the ultimate yet, so let's get that out there, but based on what I've seen people saying about the ultimate and how battles have gone so far, I'm not holding out a lot of hope. I also don't have any of the other GLs.

    Every day that passes it seems like there's less of a chance we are "waiting for the right team comp" and more a chance of "he's just really underwhelming." I remember when GAS was released and I got him that first go-round. Sure there was the 5* controversy but you could feel how powerful the character was even at 5*. Hell I was pulling top 10 in arena even with a G11 GAS for a long time because he still had use. Even with that being the least "needle changing" meta in a long time, it was still a step above everything else.

    There is none of that feeling with SEE. If you mod for offense, he hits... OK. If you mod for speed... he's still way slower than every other GL. If you mod for protection... he's slightly harder to kill. It really doesn't matter what you do, he's just kind of OK. It feels like unlocking Jedi Training Rey at this point in the game. Sure she's useful, but there's just not much there anymore. And with 14 high relic characters needed the cost is obviously much higher.

    I don't know what the answer is, because the kit seems like a cool idea and a novel one too. But instead it's just exceptionally underwhelming. And I know we need to start limiting power creep a bit but this just feels like a travesty. It wasn't easy upgrading every character to get here, then sitting through a week's worth of ticket farming just to unlock him, then to have to sit through another 2 weeks to farm the ultimate that by all intents and purposes, doesn't really do much.

    I think if you're a brand new account and you unlock SEE quickly you'll be happy for a tiny bit until someone in your shard unlocks Kylo, then your tiny advantage disappears pretty quickly. But for an established account this is like unlocking an old legendary that isn't all that good anymore.

    SEE is deeply linked with his ultimate, more than any other GL. He lurks in the shadows accumulating power then reveals itself and bring on the storm, at least he was presented that way. If you don't have the ultimate, he just lurks.
    I do agree that so far, ultimate see users seem disappointed, no argument there. But it's unfair to judge him without his ultimate imo.

    I have his ult and he is still underwhelming. even his ult damage is bad. he loses all survival during ult. he has no battlefield control at all to keep his squishy sith alive long enough to get to ult.
    If you don't have treya as an ally then AB just screws him cause when he ults he doesn't clear his debuffs.

    all other gls can beat him with little effort (i have a shard mate who used 4 different rey teams to beat my see. titans, full resistance, rey droids, and even random stall units.) slkr solos him. LS bast L with wat and JML beats SEE with ease. just use JML, whos faster, to increase SEE cooldowns so he can't even use link. then use AB to stop him. Prot up completely neuters his prot steal
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