New Mod Slicing Breaks the Game Even More

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Disclaimer: I’m likely only writing this because I’m one of the poor saps who is on the wrong side of slice rng. I’d classify myself as a kraken (I play in the guild with the most gp so I know no one here will feel bad for me)

So the thing that was always terrible about mods is now made even worse. Everyone wants speed. Speed doesn’t hit, the mod is trashed. Ask any guild and they’ll show how how they coach players to slice or not slice based on speed.

Now we have 6e-a slicing where some people have gained 8 new super mods and others have gained 0. Same investment by both players but one had the skill to slice mods better. How riveting.

I am considering quitting for the first time in my career as a result of this travesty until cg addresses this issue with mods.

Yours truly,
- Mr 0/8 slicing speed with new mods

Replies

  • I get where you’re coming from, but this is why it’s good to use these materials on mods with more than two helpful secondaries (or at least 2), for example SLKR needs offence and speed, so if you have one with offence % and speed, and maybe flat offence, it’s much more likely to be useful
  • WookieWookie
    558 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.
  • Technically we can only have sliced 7 mods so far as the first week we could only do 1.

    That said, between my 2 accounts I'm now 0 for 14 on speed hits. Good times.
  • scuba
    12617 posts Member
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Disclaimer: I’m likely only writing this because I’m one of the poor saps who is on the wrong side of slice rng. I’d classify myself as a kraken (I play in the guild with the most gp so I know no one here will feel bad for me)

    So the thing that was always terrible about mods is now made even worse. Everyone wants speed. Speed doesn’t hit, the mod is trashed. Ask any guild and they’ll show how how they coach players to slice or not slice based on speed.

    Now we have 6e-a slicing where some people have gained 8 new super mods and others have gained 0. Same investment by both players but one had the skill to slice mods better. How riveting.

    I am considering quitting for the first time in my career as a result of this travesty until cg addresses this issue with mods.

    Yours truly,
    - Mr 0/8 slicing speed with new mods
    There is no skill to mod slicing, it is choose a mod and then RNG
  • Hawthorne wrote: »
    Technically we can only have sliced 7 mods so far as the first week we could only do 1.

    That said, between my 2 accounts I'm now 0 for 14 on speed hits. Good times.

    That’s incorrect. I’ve sliced 8 times. Check your math. Remember slicing at the different letters requires different mats
  • Gosszilla
    16 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Scuba, the word choice of skill was intentional lol. It’s ruining the game because you are correct. They prefer to take skill out of it. Like half the clowns comments in here saying if they could choose a stat to slice they wouldn’t pick speed. So those horrible players will hit speed and be better off for it even if they don’t understand it’s importance
  • Kyno
    28671 posts Moderator
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Scuba, the word choice of skill was intentional lol. It’s ruining the game because you are correct. They prefer to take skill out of it. Like half the clowns comments in here saying if they could choose a stat to slice they wouldn’t pick speed. So those horrible players will hit speed and be better off for it even if they don’t understand it’s importance

    Some of those comments are based on the fact that if you pick the right mode you double your chances to not have it still be garbage, and increase the chance of it being ok and still a keeper for future upgrades.

    Still not skill based, but playing that odds is all we got.
  • You are right. Speed is king and RNG does suck. That said, I believe long term the new mod slicing may even out imbalances because your getting more opportunities on already good mods to move speed from what is likely 3-4 roll hits to 5. Heck you have done 8 rolls. As anyone knows, you need thousands of rolls to beat the rng. Not to mention, I'm sure you "krakens" will get to buy the mats at some point in the near future so CG can continue to milk you for progression in a game going on 2 plus years with without new, enjoyable playable content ;).
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Scuba, the word choice of skill was intentional lol. It’s ruining the game because you are correct. They prefer to take skill out of it. Like half the clowns comments in here saying if they could choose a stat to slice they wouldn’t pick speed. So those horrible players will hit speed and be better off for it even if they don’t understand it’s importance

    Some of those comments are based on the fact that if you pick the right mode you double your chances to not have it still be garbage, and increase the chance of it being ok and still a keeper for future upgrades.

    Still not skill based, but playing that odds is all we got.

    Kyno love you bro. But this is what I’m calling for a change on. Let’s put some skill back into the game. Let players pick the stat the want if they take it to 6A for example. That’s an even playing field. Also the fact that any bump to a mod could be considered trash should be alarming to devs. I know they don’t care but come on. We invest an insane amount in this incredible game. (Whether that investment is time or money or both varies of course)
  • It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.
  • Kyno
    28671 posts Moderator
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Scuba, the word choice of skill was intentional lol. It’s ruining the game because you are correct. They prefer to take skill out of it. Like half the clowns comments in here saying if they could choose a stat to slice they wouldn’t pick speed. So those horrible players will hit speed and be better off for it even if they don’t understand it’s importance

    Some of those comments are based on the fact that if you pick the right mode you double your chances to not have it still be garbage, and increase the chance of it being ok and still a keeper for future upgrades.

    Still not skill based, but playing that odds is all we got.

    Kyno love you bro. But this is what I’m calling for a change on. Let’s put some skill back into the game. Let players pick the stat the want if they take it to 6A for example. That’s an even playing field. Also the fact that any bump to a mod could be considered trash should be alarming to devs. I know they don’t care but come on. We invest an insane amount in this incredible game. (Whether that investment is time or money or both varies of course)

    I agree, but there is almost nothing in this game that cant be overcome with the players skill.

    I do not have the best mods, I am able to take 1 on my shard. I am never the fastest. I am not the most skilled player, but I can make it work.

    I'm not saying they couldnt make changes, but this was a good thing to the overall randomness of mods. More chances and the locked max means that what seemed like a great mod before can now be overshadowed by a great mod born of the new system.

    25 speed is great, but it's better with 75 (not sure what the max would be with a 4/4 or 5/3 split on speed/offense). No one will argue that speed is king, but the queen can be just as punishing.

    There are many favorable combinations of stats that are better than just speed. Those will be coming and be explored a lot as we get through the first "I need speed" push.

    Personally I feel like this(the current setup) is a better system than allowing player input on mod upgrades, that would devalue the system more, IMO.

    One thing i think would be a really "nice to have" would be a way to destroy mods and have them give you some mats back, rather than just sell for credits. Either a choice between credits/mats or give both back.
  • Cant even beat the event to get slicing mats here.
  • Jppc
    378 posts Member
    If you have a mod prior to that change with 2 rolls in speed, one in another good secondary and other in a bad one the mod would be meh. Now that mod can still increase speed and the other good one and be a god mod. Yeah now we were able to slice few mods so who got lucky has better mods but in the long run the introduction of new possibles rolls lucky will be less and less important.
    I don’t think it will happen but if in the future we be able to 7*E-7*A (in the same mode of 6*E-6A i.e max rolls for each secondary still be 5) less RNG will be involved to obtain a god mod (only speaking of speed)
  • Ultra
    7425 posts Member
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    GLs aside, speed matters and is very important. You need high speed to counter GLs without using one. In some GL mirror matches you need more speed in some toons than others
  • Speed has always been the most important factor in Mods and the random nature of Mods has always created a massive unfair game imbalance to those who have been luckier with their slicing. I've tired pointing this out several times but no one wants to listen.
    No player ever wants to change the system if the current system provides them with the advantage. And if they've lucked out with their Mod slicing, they're not going to listen to arguments to change it.

  • All the slice attempts... Ive hit speed once. I hate this.
  • Why is the mod "trashed" if it doesn't upgrade speed? Yes, that may be the attribute you (everyone) favours but a mod with plus 20 speed is still that even if it doesn't slice. A good mod doesn't become a bad one, surely?

    For the record, I've had one that rolled speed so far (others were health, defence and tenacity - *sigh*) - it's now +26. My fastest speed secondary.
  • MetaThumper
    494 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Right. I understand that theory and appreciate your thought there. But the truth is speed is all that matters.

    No it isn't. It's important but it's definitely "not all that matters. With relic levels in the mix it has boosted the importance and value of other secondaries.

    OP - Judging by the comment about needing to hit max rolls in order to improve chances you aren't too slicing mods that already have 5 speed rolls right? If so that's your problem as 5 is max for any stat.
    Post edited by MetaThumper on
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.

    JML and SEE are bringing speed back to the GL meta.

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.

    I didn't get that... could you explain please ?
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.

    I didn't get that... could you explain please ?

    OK, let's use this mod as an example
    h0rx5vsnxsir.jpg

    That started as a purple mod with % protection, speed, and flat offense as it's secondary stats. At level 3 I had a 0% chance roll increases to those stats as it was missing the final secondary stat. So it gave me %offense. So now I technically rolled 1 hit per stat.

    At the subsequent thresholds, level 6, 9, and 12, I had a 25% chance to increase a stat. In this case I rolled speed once, as noted by the 2 next to speed, and offense twice.

    When slicing from purple to gold I hit offense again, which had a 25% chance to happen, giving me 4 hits on offense.

    When I now slice to 6e, all secondary stats get upgrades and it doesn't count towards you max roll. So when I now slice to 6d I still have a 25% chance to increase a secondary stat.

    Let's assume I make that slice and once again roll flat offense (again a 25% chance) That will give me a max offense roll as you can not roll a stat increase more than 5 times.

    Now when I slice from 6d to 6c, I can only roll increases to % protection, speed, and % offense, thus giving me a 33% chance to increase any of the remaining stats, or in otherwords reduced randomness since my options have now gotten smaller.

    If that mod would have maxed flat offense before I sliced it to 6e, my rng would have been reduced earlier. Giving me a higher likelihood at that point to roll the stat I want.

    Problem is that each instance is still independent so what I previously rolled will almost certainly have no impact on my future rolls, with the exception happening at hitting a max roll of stat.

  • The big problem is we just don't have enough rolls right now. If Galactic Challenges were daily instead of weekly this would be less of a problem. I like the balanced of mods 3.0 better than 2.0, but only once we have the materials to actually use the system.
  • Gosszilla wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gosszilla wrote: »
    Scuba, the word choice of skill was intentional lol. It’s ruining the game because you are correct. They prefer to take skill out of it. Like half the clowns comments in here saying if they could choose a stat to slice they wouldn’t pick speed. So those horrible players will hit speed and be better off for it even if they don’t understand it’s importance

    Some of those comments are based on the fact that if you pick the right mode you double your chances to not have it still be garbage, and increase the chance of it being ok and still a keeper for future upgrades.

    Still not skill based, but playing that odds is all we got.

    Kyno love you bro. But this is what I’m calling for a change on. Let’s put some skill back into the game. Let players pick the stat the want if they take it to 6A for example. That’s an even playing field. Also the fact that any bump to a mod could be considered trash should be alarming to devs. I know they don’t care but come on. We invest an insane amount in this incredible game. (Whether that investment is time or money or both varies of course)

    Or at least add a "revert secondary" option to downgrade a secondary of choice (downgrade costs smth (another new material?) and no materials are handed back - you just wasted the slicing mats and need to use that new mats for the downgrade. This way at least our awesome mods are saved and still have the potential of turning into god mods, just have to slice them over and over again (so you still have to hit the right RNG).
    Right now, it feels EXTREMELY frustrating to see my awesome mods being screwed by bad rolls and unfortunately I'm also one of these "naturally unlucky" people (only hit 1 speed roll so far).
    Examples of my "luck":
    ro3vfytdeo9x.png
    4 attempts to hit the last speed roll - chance of failure: 31,6%
    2kybnmbabfmk.png
    2 attempts to hit either speed or %offense - chance of double fail: 25%
    Not only that I'm not hitting the rolls but these mods, while obviously not going into the trash can, are still turning into mediocre ones considering that looking into the future, speed focused chars will be equipped with all those (5) speed mods with each one having like 27+ speed.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.

    I didn't get that... could you explain please ?
    At 6e, this mod had 5 hits on the %protection secondary. You cannot have more than 5 hits on any given secondary therefore you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting each remaining secondary rather than the usual 1 in 4. Of course that is still no guarantee it will hit speed, as you can see..
    o3b7kj6r5bsw.png
  • Rath_Tarr
    4005 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    The big problem is we just don't have enough rolls right now. If Galactic Challenges were daily instead of weekly this would be less of a problem. I like the balanced of mods 3.0 better than 2.0, but only once we have the materials to actually use the system.
    Even two challenges a week would be a significant improvement provided the rewards aren't halved in the process.
  • Once a secondary has rolled 5 times (once from initial, plus 4 upgrades), it cannot be rolled again. Therefore if you max rolls on a secondary, then on your next upgrade, there are only 3 options, hence your odds change from 1/4 to 1/3.

    To the question on the odds, the “real” math becomes complicated since the odds can change past 4 rolls, but if we conservatively assume they do not, the odds of hitting the same secondary are:
    1 roll, 1 hit: 25% (1 in 4) 5D
    2 rolls, 2 hits: 6.25% (1 in 16) 5C
    3 rolls, 3 hits: 1.56% (1 in 64) 5B
    4 rolls, 4 hits: 0.39% (1 in 256) 5A, 6E
    5 rolls, 4 hits: 1.46% (1 in 68) 6D
    6 rolls, 4 hits: 3.30% (1 in 30) 6C
    7 rolls, 4 hits: 5.77% (1 in 17) 6B
    8 rolls, 4 hits: 8.65% (1 in 12) 6A

    If you did happen to have a mod with a speed secondary that rolled all of the same non-speed stat up to 6E, your odds of rolling speed at least once from 6E to 6A are actually quite good (about 80%).
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    It's certainly not 'all that matters' - with the new GLs having such high base speed, it's often correct to have JML have protection% (especially if with Wat) over flat speed, as % scales better. I'd wager a +100 speed JML team could still auto a god-speed-modded (+155) speed Kylo team.

    If anything speed matters less now than older metas when flat speed was a greater % change in a character's base speed.

    I do agree that in the Rey/Kylo meta, speed mattered less. However, +2% offense doesn't have the same impact as the opportunity of starting the fight. A +4 Speed can have a major impact on the outsome of the fight, much more than any other secondary increase.

    As long as we only slice about 2 mods per week, RNG will have a major impact. But I agree with 7AnimalMother: it will decrease speed mod RNG on the long term. Hopefully we'll have more ways to obtain slicing material to level the odds.

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.

    I didn't get that... could you explain please ?

    OK, let's use this mod as an example
    h0rx5vsnxsir.jpg

    That started as a purple mod with % protection, speed, and flat offense as it's secondary stats. At level 3 I had a 0% chance roll increases to those stats as it was missing the final secondary stat. So it gave me %offense. So now I technically rolled 1 hit per stat.

    At the subsequent thresholds, level 6, 9, and 12, I had a 25% chance to increase a stat. In this case I rolled speed once, as noted by the 2 next to speed, and offense twice.

    When slicing from purple to gold I hit offense again, which had a 25% chance to happen, giving me 4 hits on offense.

    When I now slice to 6e, all secondary stats get upgrades and it doesn't count towards you max roll. So when I now slice to 6d I still have a 25% chance to increase a secondary stat.

    Let's assume I make that slice and once again roll flat offense (again a 25% chance) That will give me a max offense roll as you can not roll a stat increase more than 5 times.

    Now when I slice from 6d to 6c, I can only roll increases to % protection, speed, and % offense, thus giving me a 33% chance to increase any of the remaining stats, or in otherwords reduced randomness since my options have now gotten smaller.

    If that mod would have maxed flat offense before I sliced it to 6e, my rng would have been reduced earlier. Giving me a higher likelihood at that point to roll the stat I want.

    Problem is that each instance is still independent so what I previously rolled will almost certainly have no impact on my future rolls, with the exception happening at hitting a max roll of stat.

    That's crystal clear, thanks :)

    I get your point and I find if totally valid tbh. There's a fancy but coming though.

    However, a x5 speed mod is far more important than a x5 offense mod, because if you want to go first, a x4 speed may not be enough, as a x4 offense mod will most likely get the job done.

    Furthermore, "dual secondary" (two x5 secondaries) mods have a narrower (is it a word ?) use, so it's not as important as having 5 increase in offense or 5 increase in speed, especially in arena, where you basically use always the same limited pool of mods whatever team you're playing at the moment. So you're speedy/offense set with Dark Revan may not be switchable to your Palpatine where you would like speed/protection, for instance. The only exception would be "no speed mods", like pure offense mods than can hit 5 offense and 5 %offense, where you can have god-mod of another level.

    To sum up, I agree that there is potential for a new level of god mods very RNG dependant, but barring a few exception, the "RNG cost" is acceptable as it offers more chances to slice x5 mods, speed of offense, which basically are the droids we're looking for, flattening the RNG curve on this objective.
  • Well I’m on the other side of the coin then, I’m 5/5 slicing (4) roll speed mods to max out at 5.... one took Max rolls to hit, one took 2 rolls to his and 3 rolled on the first go...
  • 7AnimalMother
    2053 posts Member
    edited October 2020

    RNG will not decrease enough in the long run to make you feel good about it. You'd have to take a mod that already had a secondary stat hit max rolls by 6e in order to increase your roll chances to 33% from 25%. I don't know what the exact math is but I'd surmise that having a large number of mods with a max rolled stat by 6e is not statistically high.

    Yes it will. Think of it this way. When you level/slice a mod to t6e, once you know speed is on the mod, you get exactly 4 shots to increase it. When you move from t6e to t6a, you now get 4 MORE opportunities to increase speed on that same mod (unless it maxes before then). The opportunities for a speed increase for any given mod are effectively doubled.

    In other words, my grey T5 mod with 5 speed showing now has 8 chances to be 20+ as opposed to only 4.

    If that's not helping reduce RNG, I don't know what is.....

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