GAC matchmaking system

Replies

  • Really I don't know how can someone play with that mm system in GAC.
    FOR EXAMPLE I always get opponent who is at least 300k stronger than me.
    In this moment I am fighting against opponent who is 600k stronger than me.
    He put GAS, SLK,PADME,DREVAN,GG,SHACK TI in deff and I don't have DREVAN and especially some legend or GAS.
    The first MM system was far better and fair if you ask me.
    Merging players with the same amount of GP.
    Everyone are saying drevan and whole bunch of characters are free to play so it's my mistake that I don't have some crucial characters.
    OK maybe it is but in a old MM system it is also free to play where are you gonna put your gp and in what.
    So if I wanna be "IN THE GAME" I am forced to have some of the legend characters that is pure crap if you ask me.
  • Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3
  • The old MM system was not better and definitely not fair.

    When TB first dropped, lots of players took all their toons to g7/8, level 50+, ability level 7 across the board so they could grow their GP.

    When TW and later GAC dropped, this turned out to be a bad thing to do as this meant they had a lot of totally useless characters in their roster, which made things lopsided when matched with newer players who had left dozens of characters at lvl1.

    This was absolutely unfair, as there is nothing anyone could do to "undo" the gearing and levelling of characters.

  • Slatki30
    13 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Before anyone writes a comment about this situation that I wrote just put yourself in my position.
    From the start when I installed the game I was hunting one by one fraction untill I get full squad of 5 characters with all the zetas and everything.
    And now it turned out that I was an **** to play like that which is very disturbing because I play several years now,put a loot of my time in this game which is awesome... correction IT WAS AWESOME and fair in the start.
    I don't care if someone is spending a loot of money to obtain characters more quickly it's their thing,but come on...what is too much it's too much.
    HOW COME I DON'T GET WEAKER PLAYERS IN GAC???
    Not even one player since they change MM was weaker than me.
    [Removed-CM]
    Post edited by EA_Joz on
  • LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    For what reason? It is definitely fairer now.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    The more he spent, the faster he had the resources, the bigger mod quality gap will be.

    Unless they are aware bad mods will screw them in the long run and budget some of their spending towards mods.

    Very true. I only thought about packs and forgot crystals, which is pretty important ^^

    This is even true for the highest edge. I just used "-guildquality" on the C3PO bot, my gp standing on my current guild is 35th, but mod quality standing is 13th and I'm f2p. It boils down to individuals to budget mod investment.
  • I just wanna apologize for my earlier behaviour and bad words that I wrote.
    I can see that this subject touches the nerves of very important people here and I am a little fish.
    I can only say one thing...TROUTH HURTS.
    NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE. :smile:
  • Except it's not the truth. You don't seem to realise the cognitive dissonance in your claim. You are saying people have more gp than you because they gear junk characters and they are 600k stronger than you on junk at the same time.

    Keep ignoring current and past metas and your situation will only get worse.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Except it's not the truth. You don't seem to realise the cognitive dissonance in your claim. You are saying people have more gp than you because they gear junk characters and they are 600k stronger than you on junk at the same time.

    Keep ignoring current and past metas and your situation will only get worse.

    No Maru that is not what I said.
    I said that they changed MM system because players upgraded useless characters for TB to get better prizes.
    That made the MM system changed because in GAC they have no use of them.
    I STATED THAT FIRST MM WAS MORE FAIR MERGING PLAYERS BY GP.
    Tell me how can this be fair merging me 3.9mil. gp with 4.5mil. gp?How???
  • Slatki30
    13 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    I wonder what kind of opponents would I get to raise even more characters to relic for some legend.
    What 1mil stronger than me?
    And now MM system compares my cls,Han and chewie at relic7 with slk,GAS and drevan.
    Hahaha that is nonsense.
    Please tell me that you think otherwise.
  • Kyno
    30563 posts Moderator
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    I wonder what kind of opponents would I get to raise even more characters to relic for some legend.
    What 1mil stronger than me?

    No matter what your GP, you will be matched with people who have the same MM GP as you.

    Take the number of defensive positions you place, multiple by 2, that number is the number of toons taken into account for matchmaking.

    Any other GP they have will not be relevant to matchmaking. Yes it should be accounted for, to some extent, in your strategy when placing teams, but honestly a properly developed roster and plan can make any extra GP irrelevant.
  • Slatki30 wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Except it's not the truth. You don't seem to realise the cognitive dissonance in your claim. You are saying people have more gp than you because they gear junk characters and they are 600k stronger than you on junk at the same time.

    Keep ignoring current and past metas and your situation will only get worse.

    No Maru that is not what I said.
    I said that they changed MM system because players upgraded useless characters for TB to get better prizes.
    That made the MM system changed because in GAC they have no use of them.
    I STATED THAT FIRST MM WAS MORE FAIR MERGING PLAYERS BY GP.
    Tell me how can this be fair merging me 3.9mil. gp with 4.5mil. gp?How???

    Simple...and you can read why it's fair with thousands of posts on the forums since this change;

    You don't use those characters in the matches, what you use is the top of your roster. If you really have to go beyond that, you are already losing that match.

    You not having past metas has nothing to do with this. You are getting matched with players that has the same top X gp...who has those metas. Why does everyone has them but not you? And while not getting them, you still kept pushing your top X heavily. I bet if you shared your account, it looks more like a hobbyist one rather than built for competition.

    Lastly you can't get matched with any players at 4.5m+, because you are not in the same division.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    I wonder what kind of opponents would I get to raise even more characters to relic for some legend.
    What 1mil stronger than me?

    No matter what your GP, you will be matched with people who have the same MM GP as you.

    Take the number of defensive positions you place, multiple by 2, that number is the number of toons taken into account for matchmaking.

    Any other GP they have will not be relevant to matchmaking. Yes it should be accounted for, to some extent, in your strategy when placing teams, but honestly a properly developed roster and plan can make any extra GP irrelevant.

    I did won couple of times against players who have GAS OR SLK.
    BUT THIS CANT BE MORE FAIRER MM FOR PLAYERS LIKE ME.
    MM system can't compare cls with GAS or similar but it is designed to do so.
    It is fairer for those who build up their roster for nothing but for players like me it is definitely not.
    Please tell me this he put DREVAN with malak and dbastilla,GAS,PADME,SLK,GG AND SHACK TI in deff and I put revan,padme,gg, Mon mothma, dooku with asaji and zombie,kru with executioner and kylo ren.
    I left for attack cls,palp stone,traya and Bh.
    That what I wrote are my top characters that this MM is merging me for with players like my opponent.
    Come on this can't be true.
    PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO DO AND WHO DO I ATTACK?
    AND HE LEFT ALSO CLS,TRAYA,NS,BH AND SOME OTHERS CHARACTERS FOR ATTACK AND NOT ALL OF THEM ARE ON RELIC.
    THIS MM don't make sense.
    If this guy has 4.5 mil gp then merge him with 4.5 mil gp opponent that is more reasonable than this.
  • Besides complaining, if you are genuinely looking for advice;
    You have already screwed your top 80 by pushing it above your punching grade, meanwhile skipping various metas. Get them, much more easier than it was at the time. Manage your top 80, when developing a character think about if it's a valuable contribution to you for pushing top 80 even more.

    There will never be such a thing as "I don't have gas/jkr/dr and what not, so I want to get matched with people who also doesn't have them". If there was, there would be not much point in getting any of the new metas since it's not even an advantage.

    MM has weak points, what you are ranting on has nothing to do with those.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Besides complaining, if you are genuinely looking for advice;
    You have already screwed your top 80 by pushing it above your punching grade, meanwhile skipping various metas. Get them, much more easier than it was at the time. Manage your top 80, when developing a character think about if it's a valuable contribution to you for pushing top 80 even more.

    There will never be such a thing as "I don't have gas/jkr/dr and what not, so I want to get matched with people who also doesn't have them". If there was, there would be not much point in getting any of the new metas since it's not even an advantage.

    MM has weak points, what you are ranting on has nothing to do with those.

    Ok let's just say that what you wrote is true then why MM has changed???
    Why all those players complain that about first MM.
    MM was changed because THEY ruined their gp I didn't ruin my top 80...new MM did that.
  • Slatki30 wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Besides complaining, if you are genuinely looking for advice;
    You have already screwed your top 80 by pushing it above your punching grade, meanwhile skipping various metas. Get them, much more easier than it was at the time. Manage your top 80, when developing a character think about if it's a valuable contribution to you for pushing top 80 even more.

    There will never be such a thing as "I don't have gas/jkr/dr and what not, so I want to get matched with people who also doesn't have them". If there was, there would be not much point in getting any of the new metas since it's not even an advantage.

    MM has weak points, what you are ranting on has nothing to do with those.

    Ok let's just say that what you wrote is true then why MM has changed???
    Why all those players complain that about first MM.
    MM was changed because THEY ruined their gp I didn't ruin my top 80...new MM did that.

    Naah, lol. The way that you claim -they ruined their gp- came much before GA was even a thing. You can't retroactively write history.

    AND this still has absolutely nothing to with you skipping metas, you are confusing your A's and B's.

    Anyways, I gave you my suggestions. I'm pretty much done since you're spiralling in bewilderment. Do work on your roster's weakness...or don't.
  • Kyno
    30563 posts Moderator
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    I wonder what kind of opponents would I get to raise even more characters to relic for some legend.
    What 1mil stronger than me?

    No matter what your GP, you will be matched with people who have the same MM GP as you.

    Take the number of defensive positions you place, multiple by 2, that number is the number of toons taken into account for matchmaking.

    Any other GP they have will not be relevant to matchmaking. Yes it should be accounted for, to some extent, in your strategy when placing teams, but honestly a properly developed roster and plan can make any extra GP irrelevant.

    I did won couple of times against players who have GAS OR SLK.
    BUT THIS CANT BE MORE FAIRER MM FOR PLAYERS LIKE ME.
    MM system can't compare cls with GAS or similar but it is designed to do so.
    It is fairer for those who build up their roster for nothing but for players like me it is definitely not.
    Please tell me this he put DREVAN with malak and dbastilla,GAS,PADME,SLK,GG AND SHACK TI in deff and I put revan,padme,gg, Mon mothma, dooku with asaji and zombie,kru with executioner and kylo ren.
    I left for attack cls,palp stone,traya and Bh.
    That what I wrote are my top characters that this MM is merging me for with players like my opponent.
    Come on this can't be true.
    PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO DO AND WHO DO I ATTACK?
    AND HE LEFT ALSO CLS,TRAYA,NS,BH AND SOME OTHERS CHARACTERS FOR ATTACK AND NOT ALL OF THEM ARE ON RELIC.
    THIS MM don't make sense.
    If this guy has 4.5 mil gp then merge him with 4.5 mil gp opponent that is more reasonable than this.

    The matchmaking system is fair, because it doesn't compare those 2 characters. it gives each player the option to make choices on how they develop their roster. Each choice is given the same/similar weight. i.e. - 1 ability upgrade = 1 ability upgrade, level = level....and so on. a maxed toon with the same number of abilities as another toon will have the same total GP. It is up to the player to make choices that help them be more versatile, or fit their strategy. That makes it fair to everyone, as they can tailor their roster to play how they want, and know exactly how it will effect their matchmaking.

    if you choose not to work towards having a GAC balanced roster, or ask for help on how to do so, then you are likely not going to like the MM. if you care about GAC and want to do better, focus your development on that. It will not happen overnight, but you will do better as time goes on.

    The total GP is meaningless to the match, more GP doesn't allow your opponent to place more defenses. Development strategy: (pick and choose your order as you see fit if you want to try and do better at GAC)
    - Work out a defense that allows you to fully clear the opponent
    - work on defensive teams that will cost your opponent more banners
    - work on offensive teams that suit multiple purposes - GL/META counter team, Teams that can go in short and win more banners
    - rebalance your defensive strategy to allow for harder teams that may cause a loss for your opponent
    - I'm sure there are others to add to this list.....

    The point is, you cannot control how much extra GP your opponent has, but you can develop what toons you are being matched on and make them more useful to yourself. You can only play your side of the match, and they are not going to change MM to make it easier for your to do so. its all about the long game, you may have dug yourself into a corner right now, but if you are truely interested in doing better in GAC, ask for help, MM will still be there doing exactly what it does.
  • Slatki30 wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Besides complaining, if you are genuinely looking for advice;
    You have already screwed your top 80 by pushing it above your punching grade, meanwhile skipping various metas. Get them, much more easier than it was at the time. Manage your top 80, when developing a character think about if it's a valuable contribution to you for pushing top 80 even more.

    There will never be such a thing as "I don't have gas/jkr/dr and what not, so I want to get matched with people who also doesn't have them". If there was, there would be not much point in getting any of the new metas since it's not even an advantage.

    MM has weak points, what you are ranting on has nothing to do with those.

    Ok let's just say that what you wrote is true then why MM has changed???
    Why all those players complain that about first MM.
    MM was changed because THEY ruined their gp I didn't ruin my top 80...new MM did that.

    I think this post sums up your issues very neatly.

    - You are suggesting that anyone who inflated their GP in the early days of TB "ruined" their GP, despite the fact that there was absolutely no indication at the time that inflating their GP could ever be a bad thing
    - You are suggesting that it's not your fault your roster is getting matched with people that have teams you don't have.

    It's hard to follow exactly what your complaint is, but here's an interesting comparison for you...

    You are sitting at 3.9M GP with 86 zetas, 34 g13 (lots of whom are r5+) and 34 g12.
    - The lowest GP member of my guild has same GP, 72 zetas, 10 g13 and 34 g12
    - next lowest GP member has 500k more GP, 78 zetas, 32 g13, 26 g12
    - the player currently top of the Div 2 GAC leaderboard has 250k more GP, 59 zetas, 19 g13, 25 g12

    You can't get matched with any of those players, as your top X GP is too high. You will consistently be drawn against people with much more total GP than you because your roster is very top heavy.

    As is often the case in these threads, your fondness for the old matchmaking system is likely because it was heavily in your favour. There cannot be many 3.9M GP rosters that have 34 relic toons and 34 g12 behind them, so you would consistenly get matched with people who could not compete with you.


  • Waqui
    8498 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    You could argue that both MM designs were fair. However, the current system creates significantly more even matches and doesn't disincentivise building the lower part of your roster like the old design did.
  • Kyno
    30563 posts Moderator
    Waqui wrote: »
    LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    You could argue that both MM designs were fair. However, the current system creates significantly more even matches and doesn't disincentivise building the lower part of your roster like the old design did.

    To add to this,

    The new system allows player to "correct" mistakes of the past. you can build new teams and toons into your top 80 and let others fall out.

    the old system there was no way to push anything out, you just carried your mistakes.

    yes we all have to live with bad choices, but this game is about planning and developing, the new system lets you do that more than the old way.
  • Slatki30 wrote: »
    Really I don't know how can someone play with that mm system in GAC.
    Easily.
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    FOR EXAMPLE I always get opponent who is at least 300k stronger than me.
    In this moment I am fighting against opponent who is 600k stronger than me.
    My previous opponent was 700k higher. No problem.
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    He put GAS, SLK,PADME,DREVAN,GG,SHACK TI in deff and I don't have DREVAN and especially some legend or GAS.
    The first MM system was far better and fair if you ask me.
    Merging players with the same amount of GP.
    Everyone are saying drevan and whole bunch of characters are free to play so it's my mistake that I don't have some crucial characters.
    The original MM system did not care which characters you had either. That is your responsibility to manage.

    YOU failed to manage your roster effectively over the last two years.

    YOU are blaming the matchmaker for your failings.

    But YOU are responsible for your current situation, not the matchmaker.
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    I can only say one thing...TROUTH HURTS.
    NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE. :smile:

  • Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.
  • Slatki30 wrote: »
    Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.

    It’s not a theory. Well done - matches are not won and lost on paper.

  • TVF
    30149 posts Member
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.

    It’s not a theory. Well done - matches are not won and lost on paper.

    They're won and lost in the CG laptop where the employees decide who will win and who will lose.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.

    It’s not a theory. Well done - matches are not won and lost on paper.

    They're won and lost in the CG laptop where the employees decide who will win and who will lose.

    Do you mean that GAC is rigged ?
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.

    It’s not a theory. Well done - matches are not won and lost on paper.

    They're won and lost in the CG laptop where the employees decide who will win and who will lose.

    Do you mean that GAC is rigged ?
    If you count the fair matchups, I win easily.

    If you count the unfair matchups, people are trying to steal GAC away from me!
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Slatki30 wrote: »
    Maybe your theory is right.
    I won that guy in GAC who is 600k stronger than me.
    His team could not clear 4 of my team's.
    And I won 1244 against 1216.

    It’s not a theory. Well done - matches are not won and lost on paper.

    They're won and lost in the CG laptop where the employees decide who will win and who will lose.

    Do you mean that GAC is rigged ?
    If you count the fair matchups, I win easily.

    If you count the unfair matchups, people are trying to steal GAC away from me!

    I think you should file a lawsuit and demand a banner recount in all zones.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Waqui wrote: »
    LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    You could argue that both MM designs were fair. However, the current system creates significantly more even matches and doesn't disincentivise building the lower part of your roster like the old design did.

    This. Both systems are fine. There are arguments for either. There are people who will do better under one than another.

    But as in any game, fairness is determined more by the rules applying equally to everyone. And under either matchmaking system, they do. So they are fair.

    It's like creating house rules in monopoly. A whole assortment of different rules can be fair as long as they apply equally to all players.

    Unfortunately adding GAC was like staring a monopoly game with whatever money you had. No set of rules at that point will be perfect. But any set of uniform rules that base matchmaking on resources put into the game are fair.

    One idea for another matchmaking system that would be interesting to see if they could somehow measure resources collected and base matchmaking on that rather than resources used. It would be similar to the original gp matchmaking except it would include hoarded Crystal's and gear at the rate it raises gp. Basically it wouldn't matter whether you gear the low end or hoard because matchmaking would treat both equally.

    Probably not feasible but it would be interesting.

    I would also be ok with it if they mixed up the matchmaking every so often. Have one gac based on total gp and another based on top 80. Maybe alternate. It's like playing monopoly with extra money one game and without the next. Some people will do better one way and others will do better another way.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    You could argue that both MM designs were fair. However, the current system creates significantly more even matches and doesn't disincentivise building the lower part of your roster like the old design did.

    This. Both systems are fine. There are arguments for either. There are people who will do better under one than another.

    But as in any game, fairness is determined more by the rules applying equally to everyone. And under either matchmaking system, they do. So they are fair.

    It's like creating house rules in monopoly. A whole assortment of different rules can be fair as long as they apply equally to all players.

    Unfortunately adding GAC was like staring a monopoly game with whatever money you had. No set of rules at that point will be perfect. But any set of uniform rules that base matchmaking on resources put into the game are fair.

    One idea for another matchmaking system that would be interesting to see if they could somehow measure resources collected and base matchmaking on that rather than resources used. It would be similar to the original gp matchmaking except it would include hoarded Crystal's and gear at the rate it raises gp. Basically it wouldn't matter whether you gear the low end or hoard because matchmaking would treat both equally.

    Probably not feasible but it would be interesting.

    I would also be ok with it if they mixed up the matchmaking every so often. Have one gac based on total gp and another based on top 80. Maybe alternate. It's like playing monopoly with extra money one game and without the next. Some people will do better one way and others will do better another way.
    I don’t know if I agree that both systems are fine.

    Kyno mentioned it above - if we match on total GP then people are forced to live with the consequences of every single item of gear, zeta, level that they’ve applied to any toon or ship in their roster. There is nothing anyone can do to rectify mistakes, or to rectify what was originally a perfectly valid strategy of gearing / levelling everything.

    That’s what made that system worse than the current one. At least now you can do something to manipulate your matchmaking GP positively over time.
  • LastNeuron wrote: »
    Agree, original GP MM was fair than this one, sure for 3v3

    For what reason? It is definitely fairer now.

    Not agree, higher GP player have a lot of teams than can use to attack and put the best one in defence. You can use more than 80 teams during a GA match.
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