Raid cost for smaller Guilds

Prev1
it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.

Replies

  • Kyno
    26697 posts Moderator
    Unfortunately there is no such thing as a "smaller guild". Guilds are designed to be and raids are designed around 50 players.

    If you want to be in a guild that is not full, that's your choice, but a full guild will generally put in a lot of effort to stay that way, or people will run alt accounts to keep ticket generation at max. This is one of the rewards for that effort, they can raid at "maximum efficiency".
  • thank you for your reply, that is unfortunate that is the way as it does slow my small group down from progressing faster, people running alt accounts in the higher guilds for additional raiding still goes on and enabling smaller groups this ability for the current raids i can’t see stopping that happening, perhaps improving the programming to stop guild jumping would help such as blocking players returning to the same guild within 7 days. i know for a fact that some players don’t want to or have the commitment to participate in territory battles or be in a larger guild and just want to have fun in a smaller one. it’s a pity you won’t help these players since i think you’re missing an improvement here, us players in these smaller guilds still do need currency for the guild store for those characters shards and want to be competitive in these new events such as galactic challenges that is set for single player gaming.
  • crzydroid
    4968 posts Moderator
    Yeah, unfortunately, the game seems designed around multiplayer and daily gameplay.
  • jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.

    Your proposal would be you and your 5 friends getting better rewards than people in a 50 person guild. Assuming the dev's granted your request and the raid were 1/10 of the cost of a 50 person guild, you would essentially be getting top 5 rewards as often as as 50 person guild has to split the total rewards which averages to far less than top 5 for everyone. Especially in the sith raid.

    The change you propose would create an incentive for players that don't like Tb or tw to create mini guilds rather than having to still be in a group of 50 and share the rewards.

    You may not like it but there are reasons. But there are plenty of fairly lax guilds out there to join that will let you skip tb or tw if you want. Though you are complaining about not enough guild currency but are skipping a lot of stuff that rewards that currency. You can't have it both ways. Either the currency is important enough to play the part of the game that rewards it or it's not.
  • jpeng
    12 posts Member
    edited November 21
    do an appropriate cost then but 60,000 tickets for a 5 person guild to do heroic rancor is excessive. or even give them all rank 11 rewards like the sim does.
  • jpeng
    12 posts Member
    edited November 21
    guilds that are okay with you skipping territory battles? really? that just seems morally unfair to the other players in that guild. plus the whole point of the post was about not wanting to be in a guild of 50 but just be a guild with a family of 5.
  • jpeng wrote: »
    do an appropriate cost then but 60,000 tickets for a 5 person guild to do heroic rancor is excessive.
    Heroic raids are clearly not designed to be regularly done by 5 person guilds, though.

    Just take your guildmates and join a bigger guild with 35-40+ members. It's admirable that you want to keep your guild going, but in the long run you are all just losing out on rewards in every guild related game mode.
  • What you’re describing is a really edge case.

    You have a small group of players who don’t want to compete in the guild events, which means not staying competitive with arena and other game modes.
    But you also want raids more frequently to help with the gear crunch and with earning shards.

    Most players fall into one side or the other - competitive or very casual. This is a hybrid situation.

    There is nothing wrong with that, however the game is not designed around those very specific parameters. And any time or effort spent developing to meet those parameters would be largely wasted to a majority of the player base.
  • Kyno
    26697 posts Moderator
    jpeng wrote: »
    do an appropriate cost then but 60,000 tickets for a 5 person guild to do heroic rancor is excessive. or even give them all rank 11 rewards like the sim does.

    60000 tickets designed for a 50 person guild. If you choose to not try to keep your guild full, then you and your guild will suffer.

    The issue has less to do with the ticket cost for the raid, and more to do with your choice to only have 5 people in your guild.
    jpeng wrote: »
    guilds that are okay with you skipping territory battles? really? that just seems morally unfair to the other players in that guild. plus the whole point of the post was about not wanting to be in a guild of 50 but just be a guild with a family of 5.

    That's an interesting situation you wish you be in. Unfortunately that is not the design or purpose of a guild in a game, this is meant to be a social aspect to help add stability and more diverse content.

    As stated above, to adjust the everything so a guild can do all the guild things (or even some of them) without being full would be only to serve a very small segment of the playerbase. This would also lead to more balance testing on all of these elements to not give an advantage to "less work" of having a not full guild.

    If they didnt balance this than not full guilds could have a huge advantage, but remove stability from the game, when 2-3 people leave a guild even at 1 time, nothing really happens, just more recruiting. 2-3 players leaving a 5-10 person guild, could cause a larger group to leave, or just dissolve the guild all together.
  • Waqui
    7863 posts Member
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.

    Would you consider it fair that you still win the full amount of currency, gear and shards for ranks 1 through 5 if you only pay one 10th the raid tickets to launch the raid?

    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.
  • As noted above, having only 5 members in your guild is crippling your ability to have raids more often. I personally don’t understand not wanting to do TB or TW, but that decision was yours to make.
  • jpeng
    12 posts Member
    edited November 22
    @Waqui i’ve already addressed those points further on in the additional posts i posted above.

    this was just was a suggestion, simply from a situation i found myself in as with many other workplaces or families i would imagine not wanting to be in a guild with strangers. who knows CG might have liked the idea and thought it might be worth implemented. although i feel it would be an improvement i also understand the effort/cost to incorporate this into the game out ways the benefit to CG.

    @Kyno i’m not sure how small guilds would have an advantage as clearly they would be losing out on much of the TW, TB and dailies reward/currencies. they would also suck at the new rancor raid, this would only allow those smaller guilds to raid more often on raids that are now outdated allowing them guild currency to progress their rosters a little faster that is currently offered as simmable or easily completed to those in larger guilds.
    Post edited by jpeng on
  • Kyno
    26697 posts Moderator
    jpeng wrote: »
    Waqui i’ve already addressed those points further on in the additional posts i posted above.

    this was just was a suggestion, simply from a situation i found myself in as with many other workplaces or families i would imagine not wanting to be in a guild with strangers. who knows CG might have liked the idea and thought it might be worth implemented. although i feel it would be an improvement i also understand the effort/cost to incorporate this into the game out ways the benefit to CG.

    Kyno i’m not sure how small guilds would have an advantage as clearly they would be losing out on much of the TW, TB and dailies reward/currencies. they would also suck at the new rancor raid, this would only allow those smaller guilds to raid more often on raids that are now outdated allowing them guild currency to progress their rosters a little faster that is currently offered as simmable or easily completed to those in larger guilds.

    Let's be really clear here, there is no such thing as a small guild.

    Players who do not want to be part of a full guild should not be given any advantage, even on older or simmable content. The ticket system is put in place to give pacing to the event, based on gameplay.

    The amount of work to properly balance rewards/events/pacing, and making sure that there is no way to take advantage of this setup and still bounce around to a full guild for TW/TB, is a lot and should not be "wasted" for such edge cases as this.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.


    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.

    I dont support catering to 5 man guilds, but I do really wish they would adjust the ticket system so that a full 50/50 every day is not required to get max tickets. Maybe allow each person to earn 625 tickets instead of 600, with a guild cap at 30k still? Or give out a percentage of 30k equal to the percentage of the max tickets your guild earned for the day? You'd probably need a minimum number of players to qualify for the last 1 so you don't have 1 man ticket farming guilds.
  • crzydroid
    4968 posts Moderator
    Waqui wrote: »
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.


    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.

    I dont support catering to 5 man guilds, but I do really wish they would adjust the ticket system so that a full 50/50 every day is not required to get max tickets. Maybe allow each person to earn 625 tickets instead of 600, with a guild cap at 30k still? Or give out a percentage of 30k equal to the percentage of the max tickets your guild earned for the day? You'd probably need a minimum number of players to qualify for the last 1 so you don't have 1 man ticket farming guilds.

    I'd thought about some similar system for alleviating the burden of all needing cap. Like if a high enough percentage hit 600, you get a certain amount of bonus tickets. Also I think it would be nice if they could incrementally increase the cap the smaller the guild gets to account for being at like 47 out of 50 and still getting max raid tickets.

    Obviously a 5-person guild would still take much longer to open raids, unless all 5 were spending so many crystals everyday that they could hit 6,000 energy/day each. Which if they're spending that much it wouldn't be a concern to CG I think. So with a sliding scale it's still harder for really small guilds to raid, but if you are missing just a few members or two have extenuating circumstances, the guild can still hit max.
  • this idea isn’t just for a 5 man guild, that is just my situation but there are guilds with 10, 25 or 30 players that it takes forever to launch raids that are considered old content and are easily solo’d by newer players. having tried an alt account in some of these guilds and can confirm this suggestion would also help some newer players progress faster which seems to be a focus for CG now.
  • jpeng wrote: »
    this idea isn’t just for a 5 man guild, that is just my situation but there are guilds with 10, 25 or 30 players that it takes forever to launch raids that are considered old content and are easily solo’d by newer players. having tried an alt account in some of these guilds and can confirm this suggestion would also help some newer players progress faster which seems to be a focus for CG now.
    All the guild sizes you listed are incomplete guilds.

    If newer players want to progress faster, the easiest way to achieve it is to be in a complete guild.
  • bouncing around from weak guild to weak guild a lot of them have inactive players, this would encourage them to remove those players, instead i found myself locked out since i don’t want to be in a guild with 25 inactives, if i knew there was only 25 active players it is allowing me choose better. also in these guilds is the type of player it would help and improve their enjoyment of the game enabling them to raid more often and progress faster possibly spend more.
  • You don’t want to be in a guild with 25 inactives? Yet you’re wilfully in a guild with 45 inactives?

    This is the classic case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it.
  • yes i want to be in a guild of 5 players but i miss out on raiding so i’m having to look elsewhere since the game doesn’t support for smaller guilds. i fully understand players posting here not getting it but from a player such as myself i feel CG is missing out on an improvement that would cater for myself or the lone player possibly better.
  • For the 5th time... there are no smaller guilds, only incomplete guilds.
  • i’m not sure why people don’t think i’m serious, i play msf on my own and thoroughly enjoy it but parts of the game i’m locked out of also character shards i can’t get either. but with swgoh those raids are viable for the single player or small groups to do thus enabling better progress for those who are currently not catered for and enabling them better access to the selection of characters available.
  • For the 5th time... there are no smaller guilds, only incomplete guilds.

    don’t give yourself a heart attack! lol
  • Kyno
    26697 posts Moderator
    jpeng wrote: »
    bouncing around from weak guild to weak guild a lot of them have inactive players, this would encourage them to remove those players, instead i found myself locked out since i don’t want to be in a guild with 25 inactives, if i knew there was only 25 active players it is allowing me choose better. also in these guilds is the type of player it would help and improve their enjoyment of the game enabling them to raid more often and progress faster possibly spend more.

    Choosing to join a guild that is not as active is not a good choice, but talking to the players in a guild before joining, or looking at guilds who are actively recruiting can easily solve the bouncing issue. Again, this circles back to a slight bit of work on the players end, that pays off in the players favor.
  • crzydroid
    4968 posts Moderator
    jpeng wrote: »
    i’m not sure why people don’t think i’m serious, i play msf on my own and thoroughly enjoy it but parts of the game i’m locked out of also character shards i can’t get either. but with swgoh those raids are viable for the single player or small groups to do thus enabling better progress for those who are currently not catered for and enabling them better access to the selection of characters available.

    I don't know what exactly it is you're looking for, but I also tend to like single player games I can do on my own schedule. Since coming back to the game I've told myself I'm going to be a more casual player, and one way I'm doing that is by joining a guild for about 1 event a month. So I can still join a higher guild just for 1 TB, do all the raids for that week, and then go back to guildless for a while. You can control how you do it. I joined a smaller guild in TBs for a bit and merc'd a TW for them. This month I might stay for more than one event. You may try something similar if you're finding being in a guild full time is not for you.
  • Waqui
    7863 posts Member
    jpeng wrote: »
    @Waqui i’ve already addressed those points further on in the additional posts i posted above.

    You've suggested to block players from returning to a guild for 7 days. You didn't address how to prevent the type of abuse I described (having ticket alts generate tickets, then kicking them to launch a 5-man raid for 6k tickets). How would you prevent that type of abuse?
  • Waqui
    7863 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.


    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.

    I dont support catering to 5 man guilds, but I do really wish they would adjust the ticket system so that a full 50/50 every day is not required to get max tickets. Maybe allow each person to earn 625 tickets instead of 600, with a guild cap at 30k still? Or give out a percentage of 30k equal to the percentage of the max tickets your guild earned for the day? You'd probably need a minimum number of players to qualify for the last 1 so you don't have 1 man ticket farming guilds.

    Why 625? Why not 750? Or 1000?

    Yes, I understand that with a limit of 625 you enable guilds with only 48 members to generate 30.000 tickets daily, but what about guilds with only 40 or 30 members?

    Alternatively, guilds with 48 members (or who miss out on 1200 tickets daily for some other reason) could just accept that they are only able to launch 24 raids for every 25 raids a guild with perfect ticket generation launches.
  • Waqui
    7863 posts Member
    jpeng wrote: »
    i’m not sure why people don’t think i’m serious,...

    I'm sure, you are serious. I just don't support your suggestion. That's all. If you present a way to prevent abuse or a good reason why your 5 man guild should be able to launch raids at a discount cost while others pay the full amount of tickets I may change my mind.
  • Kyno
    26697 posts Moderator
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.


    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.

    I dont support catering to 5 man guilds, but I do really wish they would adjust the ticket system so that a full 50/50 every day is not required to get max tickets. Maybe allow each person to earn 625 tickets instead of 600, with a guild cap at 30k still? Or give out a percentage of 30k equal to the percentage of the max tickets your guild earned for the day? You'd probably need a minimum number of players to qualify for the last 1 so you don't have 1 man ticket farming guilds.

    Why 625? Why not 750? Or 1000?

    Yes, I understand that with a limit of 625 you enable guilds with only 48 members to generate 30.000 tickets daily, but what about guilds with only 40 or 30 members?

    Alternatively, guilds with 48 members (or who miss out on 1200 tickets daily for some other reason) could just accept that they are only able to launch 24 raids for every 25 raids a guild with perfect ticket generation launches.

    They would also keep some limit. Allowing for 10% seems reasonable, if they were going to do it. If they were to do it, I dont seem them allowing for 10 or more to not be present or pulling in almost all the tickets required.
  • Waqui
    7863 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    jpeng wrote: »
    it would be nice to have a sliding scale for cost of raids, i’m currently in a 5 man guild and don’t want to be in anything more what is frustrating is that we can complete pit, tank and sith raid but it takes forever to save tickets. it would be nice to have a sliding scale for ticket cost so we could set it to 5 or even 10 participants only and launch just as often as the larger guilds. so 5 players could launch a pit raid 6000 tickets instead of of 60,000 tickets and only be able to have a couple of raids a months. it would also help with getting those character shards that are only available in the guild store not to mention the gear crunch. note:- not asking for better rewards for those 5 players just to be able to raid as frequently as larger guilds. thanks for reading.


    Also such a feature could be abused. Imagine having ticket alts in your guild to help generate tickets and then kicking the alts just before launching the raid for 6k tickets.

    I dont support catering to 5 man guilds, but I do really wish they would adjust the ticket system so that a full 50/50 every day is not required to get max tickets. Maybe allow each person to earn 625 tickets instead of 600, with a guild cap at 30k still? Or give out a percentage of 30k equal to the percentage of the max tickets your guild earned for the day? You'd probably need a minimum number of players to qualify for the last 1 so you don't have 1 man ticket farming guilds.

    Why 625? Why not 750? Or 1000?

    Yes, I understand that with a limit of 625 you enable guilds with only 48 members to generate 30.000 tickets daily, but what about guilds with only 40 or 30 members?

    Alternatively, guilds with 48 members (or who miss out on 1200 tickets daily for some other reason) could just accept that they are only able to launch 24 raids for every 25 raids a guild with perfect ticket generation launches.

    They would also keep some limit. Allowing for 10% seems reasonable, if they were going to do it. If they were to do it, I dont seem them allowing for 10 or more to not be present or pulling in almost all the tickets required.

    So, Bulldog suggested 625, you suggest allowing for 10% (do you mean 45 members / 667 daily tickets each?). Any reason why 10% (or 45 members)?
Sign In or Register to comment.