Solicitation for Topics of Interest

Replies

  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    This might seem odd to newer players, but I think it would be fun to add the raids to the journey guide - as single player events.. I realize there are people who can solo HSith with the right SLKR team - but it would be fun to try different ways to to beat the various phases of each of the raids. Even going back and actually playing the original Rancor or AAT with different teams.

    I actually asked this question during the Q&As when they were still a thing.

    Can any or all of the raids be added to the journey guide for fun and/or practice? No rewards of course, apart from allowing people to progress in any of the quests that they may be doing.

    The Journey Guide presents the raid characters: Han Solo, General Kenobi, and Darth Traya. The goal of the feature is to surface the actual actions players need to do and point them to those actions. Because the raids are designed to be collaborative game modes, creating an isolated practice mode wouldn't fit the goal of the Journey Guide. That said, I can see the value in the suggestion, and it's probably something that could fall under the initiative of the sandbox mode.


    The TL:DR answer is no. That being said, I did ask the question, so I do like this idea as well.
  • I'd be interested to know what the selection process is for hero induction, if it's purely CG's decision or if EA/LucasArts has any authority.

    example, Solo a Star Wars Movie: I think a lot of people were surprised when Beckett wasn't added to the swgoh roster.

    Back in 2018 I remember Carrie saying she would love to add Hondo Onaka, so it's assumed there are channels to go through first. The question is of relevance to whether there is any platform for we, the players to be able to pertition for additional characters to be inaugurated.

    Also while I'm here, if anyone could explain the exact mechanics of "each of his/her turns" which often appears in hero kits I'd be appreciative, example TIE Fighter Pilot getting almost infinite amounts of foresight (which often reapplies at the end of all my heroes turns)

    thanks in advance
  • Pitdog73
    8 posts Member
    edited February 15
    Not sure where to put this but
    1)BOBA FET is a Mandalorian, but not in game.
    2)While I got 50 characters all needing same upgrade gear.(multipletimes). yet got over 100,000 pcs of gear .. no one uses.
    3)THE MANDALORIAN.. has a ship.. but not in game..
    4)Where's pilot Luke Skywalker and his x-wing.
    You know we all want to here luke joining fleet battle saying.. "Red 5. Standing by"
    5) need a Death Star battle guild battle event.
    6) challenge rewards.. only 2 pcs of gear from all 3 challenges are worth anything.. should change rewards/add a tier/ or something not to make them pointless..
  • Are there any plans to update the toons and gear in the Catina Battle Store, Guild Store, Squad Arena Store and Galactic War Store? Allowing a better rotation of toons can help new players and some older players.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Musk_misk wrote: »
    Are there any plans to update the toons and gear in the Catina Battle Store, Guild Store, Squad Arena Store and Galactic War Store? Allowing a better rotation of toons can help new players and some older players.

    @Musk_misk those particular stores have been locked to allow players to transition through them, starting with shards to build a wider roster, and then transitioning to shard shop currency income over time. Those stores will not be updated.
  • Doja, here from the SWGoH Events Discord under your orders (good soldiers always follow orders):

    1. Just want to thank you guys for how awesome it is engage with you all now.
    2. I had two topics:

    - challenge tier 2 and 3 have the same rewards, just was curious what the thought process was behind that since I think a lot of it was us thinking it was a place holder for something we would recieve in the future.
    - can you delve into how ships factors into GAC matchmaking, since that's kind of an enigma from anything I can find.

    Again, thank you so much!
  • Fatal
    39 posts Member
    edited February 21
    Would it ever be possible to revisit the concept of 15% base resist RNG and 2% base evasion chance? In a game with competitive modes, making the right move and having the game randomly decide that your choice wasn't valid is incredibly frustrating.
    Post edited by Fatal on
  • Fatal
    39 posts Member
    edited February 21
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?
  • Fatal
    39 posts Member
    edited February 21
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.
    Post edited by Fatal on
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
  • Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.
  • Fatal
    39 posts Member
    edited February 21
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    I agree, but I'm not sure that it's a healthy dynamic for the game for me to constantly have to second guess "is upgrading this character now going to burn me later?" in a game that's fundamentally supposed to be about upgrading things. Obviously things fall out of meta all the time, but in cases like these, making a character "better" has made my gameplay experience worse. I'm effectively locked out of using half of Ki-Adi-Mundi's kit, or fielding unique team concepts, because I invested in those characters.
  • I would love to see us be able to move zetas around like we can with mods. I have characters I don't use anymore, but have zetas. Those zetas are stuck with those characters, and we have to buy more zetas.

    I've been playing almost from the beginning. I love the game, keep up the great work.

    Cheers.
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    Hard pass.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.
  • I really doubt CG would do that.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Sneezy3690 wrote: »
    I would love to see us be able to move zetas around like we can with mods. I have characters I don't use anymore, but have zetas. Those zetas are stuck with those characters, and we have to buy more zetas.

    I've been playing almost from the beginning. I love the game, keep up the great work.

    Cheers.

    This has been brought up before, and not moving but the ability to remove a mod every so often has been discussed by the dev team. the general plan seems to have changed to open up the market and basically "give away" roughly 1 full zeta a year.

    They are unlikely to make moving or removing zetas a thing. The general idea is to always keep things moving forward.
  • Ultra
    7309 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt
  • Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.

    I'm sure there are other abilities that are better when not fully upgraded because of weird side effects like this. I don't expect they'll ever let us downgrade abilities, but I understand the desire for such a system when they keep creating abilities like that.
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.

    Early on, no way. My alt had a Shaak team with no zetas for a while but they were all G8 other than my G12 Fives (for ships) and I definitely wanted him taunting.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.

    Early on, no way. My alt had a Shaak team with no zetas for a while but they were all G8 other than my G12 Fives (for ships) and I definitely wanted him taunting.

    Fair enough, though that only reinforces the desire for a downgrade system. At first, the taunt was useful, but not it is detrimental.
  • Fives has such high defense that you DO want him taunting, when he is modded right, he is very hard to kill. Essentially this makes your opponent waste fire. And because shaak lead has protection recovery on basic and fives counters, this makes it very hard to kill him. This is why the SLKR counter works (and Kylos obsession with fives.)
  • Also, fives taunt was in effect long before his sacrifice zeta rework
  • Also, fives taunt was in effect long before his sacrifice zeta rework

    Yep. Just another thing that reinforces the desire for a downgrade system. When he first had his taunt, there was no reason to want someone else to die first.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Sneezy3690 wrote: »
    I would love to see us be able to move zetas around like we can with mods. I have characters I don't use anymore, but have zetas. Those zetas are stuck with those characters, and we have to buy more zetas.

    I've been playing almost from the beginning. I love the game, keep up the great work.

    Cheers.

    The general idea is to always keep things moving forward.

    On paper that sounds great but in practice I'm gated out of fielding one of the best possible meta defense teams right now because I zeta'ed one character and took another to high relic, and needed to not have done one or the other.

    I don't expect the system to allow for refunds, I don't think it would be particularly balanced, which is why I'm asking for straight up removal as a compromise.
  • Ultra
    7309 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.

    I'm sure there are other abilities that are better when not fully upgraded because of weird side effects like this. I don't expect they'll ever let us downgrade abilities, but I understand the desire for such a system when they keep creating abilities like that.

    I disagree with the idea that you want someone other than fives to die

    Fives unique makes him a psuedo taunter without a taunt

    If fives has no taunt, players on offense will still target fives

    on offense you can just not make him taunt

    Fives does get defense bonus when he's taunting so he's harder to kill when he's taunting so its better to make him taunt so that GAS stands up in time
  • Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.

    I'm sure there are other abilities that are better when not fully upgraded because of weird side effects like this. I don't expect they'll ever let us downgrade abilities, but I understand the desire for such a system when they keep creating abilities like that.

    I disagree with the idea that you want someone other than fives to die

    Fives unique makes him a psuedo taunter without a taunt

    If fives has no taunt, players on offense will still target fives

    on offense you can just not make him taunt

    Fives does get defense bonus when he's taunting so he's harder to kill when he's taunting so its better to make him taunt so that GAS stands up in time

    Yeah but to "just not make him taunt" you are completely ignoring that other ability, because you don't want him to taunt.

    I know it's not a "one size fits all" type thing, but there are, as you know, plenty of situations in which you having that ability omega'd is worse than having it not omega'd.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fatal wrote: »
    Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.

    @Fatal

    No.

    Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?

    Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.

    It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.

    Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.

    In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.

    I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.

    Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?

    Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.

    Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.

    But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
    And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.

    Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.

    I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt

    Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.

    I'm being completely genuine and speaking from experience when I say that my 4* G8 non-unique omega KAM was stronger against SLK than my 7* R8 maxed KAM.
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