(Mis)matchmaking in Territory Wars (sandbagging)
November 24, 2020 7:35PM
edited November 2020
Hello,
This topic has been discussed here few times already, but this time I decided to bring it up again because the matchmaking in TW is getting worse and worse, and it seems sandbagging by guilds has become a “new reality” in SWGOH... and it’s very frustrating.
It’s n-th time in a row where we are paired with a guild witch outstands us in EVERY stats (relics, galactic legends, speed mods, etc) and the only reason we’re being matched by TW matchmaking algorithm is “active GP”.
Dear CG - we have very commited players (most of them plating more than few years already), but as a guild leader I am not able to keep the morale high, if we are getting beaten up in so unfair way, by much stronger guilds - so often.
One may say that we should start doing the same - sandbagging and beat up in unfair battle other, smaller guilds - but this is not the solution as it always will be unfair to somebody. And we’re here to have fun, not to use loopholes in the system to “win” in unfair way.
Having said that - could somebody from CG explain me, what we should do when we’re being matched with opponents like presented in the attached screenshots?
TWs are one of the most fun part of the game, but if you’;re taking the “fun” part from us, more and more people will continue to quit playing the game for good.
This is simply unfair. We have nothing against loosing the Territory Wars, but let’s just have a fair fight - otherwise it’s not fun anymore.
This topic has been discussed here few times already, but this time I decided to bring it up again because the matchmaking in TW is getting worse and worse, and it seems sandbagging by guilds has become a “new reality” in SWGOH... and it’s very frustrating.
It’s n-th time in a row where we are paired with a guild witch outstands us in EVERY stats (relics, galactic legends, speed mods, etc) and the only reason we’re being matched by TW matchmaking algorithm is “active GP”.
Dear CG - we have very commited players (most of them plating more than few years already), but as a guild leader I am not able to keep the morale high, if we are getting beaten up in so unfair way, by much stronger guilds - so often.
One may say that we should start doing the same - sandbagging and beat up in unfair battle other, smaller guilds - but this is not the solution as it always will be unfair to somebody. And we’re here to have fun, not to use loopholes in the system to “win” in unfair way.
Having said that - could somebody from CG explain me, what we should do when we’re being matched with opponents like presented in the attached screenshots?
TWs are one of the most fun part of the game, but if you’;re taking the “fun” part from us, more and more people will continue to quit playing the game for good.
This is simply unfair. We have nothing against loosing the Territory Wars, but let’s just have a fair fight - otherwise it’s not fun anymore.
Post edited by Kyno on
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Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
There are a few notes about approaching this subject that make it more helpful and useful for a constructive conversation.
You do not know the other guild or thier players, calling this sandbagging and acting like it's an intentional act, does help the conversation.
How a guild ends up at these numbers doesnt matter. The issue is the numbers and the fact that a difference in average GP (or other examples of this, from a numbers stand point).
The characters a guild does or doesnt have are not really part of a mismatch, even if they are GLs. There are F2P counters out there, or the fact that F2P are also gaining GLs, or even 2 now.
You comparison app seems to be comparing all 50 members of the guild to yours. But this isn't an accurate comparison if they are only using 45 members to your 50.
That is like comparing the total gp in gac when only the gp of your top 80 are used.
The data you shared doesn't show an accurate picture. They could have only 30 people playing or all 50. And that makes a huge difference in what you will face.
This is the whole point. When guild is sandbagging, they rotate c.a. 5-7 members who do not join TW. In case of our current opponent, 44 people signed up for TW.
This way they always face to weaker guild, as mainly active GP is taken into consideration. This is 99% win chance - especially if we consider top guilds with total GP around 300M.
And if we win every TW, you can skip one in 10 games. The balance in the end is very postivei (3 zeta * 9 games vs 2 zetas * 10 games). If you count the total numbers of TWs during the year, it really makes a difference.
And the fact thet there are 44 players (opponent) vs 48 players (us) doesn’t change anything - as they still have over 20+ Galatic Legends, more relics, better speed mods, etc.
What proof do you have of consistant sandbagging by your opponents? Some people have real life commitments.
For example, we are only 42 this TW. Had a few sit out due to attack phase being amongst Thanksgiving plans.
Friends from the community confirm this (from various „top” guilds), but obviously I don’t want to generalize that it’s true for every guild - as it’s not. In many cases it’s exactly as you said - some people simply do not join because they don’t have time, or whatever. In the end - the end the result is the same I am afraid.
My goal is to make a point that matchmakling algorithm should be fixed, and should take into consideration other stats then simply Active GP.
This is true. That’s why I removed guild names from the screenshot, as I don’t know if our current opponent sandbagged or simply some people didn’t have time to participate in TW. In the end it doesn’t matter, as the end result is the same - mismatch.
Correct.
And this is one of the main issues in matchmaking algorith. Taking into consideration Active GP itself leads to mismatch. Let’s even forget about the characters - average GP of our opponent is 6.2M, in our case it’s 5.5M which should bring some perspective how mismatched our TW will be (again - let’s forget that they have 46 more Galactic Legends
It seems to me they have utilized their active gp better than your guild has. One of the problems with being a casual guild is you sometimes run into a more focused guild.
If you account for active gp only the match is 266 mil on you side and 272 mil on theirs assuming the missing players on both sides have the average go of the guild.
That's pretty close actually. Within about 2%. The matchmaking isn't meant to make up for your guild's decisions on how you built your gp. It is meant to match you with a guild with similar gp.
They will win because they have very pvp focused rosters for their gp and your guild does not.
I’m sorry for saying this, but this is nonsese. You can’t „utilize” active GP - it’s just there, especially if 48-50 out 50 sign up for TW.
Again, you’re doing it all wrong. Yes, they will win but because they have much better developed rooster (betters stats, more relics, more GLs, etc) as their average GP will be signifcantly higher by default (if total guild GP differs by 30M there is no other way).
Having matchmaking done by „average active gp” would make more sense as it would lead to more equal battles, and than your arguments would be totally valid.
Sure you can utilize active gp. All active gp is is the sum of the gp that all players who joined have.
If as a guild you only accept players that have pvp focused rosters, you have less useless teams making up the gp of the guild and less useless gp making up the gp of those who join tw.
It's a choice to be made on whether this is the best course or not. Some guilds are ok with losing to not have to be bossy about what to farm. Some guilds aren't.
But the reason you are losing to what appears to be a very pvp focused guild is likely lack of focus of the rosters that make up your guild. It's essentially the same as gac but the roster choices of the rest of your guild affects your chances if winning also.
I think he is complaining about the frequency as well.
Our guild went through a run. In fact, the last 3 guilds we have faced have shown some traits of sandbagging as well.
What do you propose as a solution. Not allowing guilds under 50 people joining playing.
That would go over great. You can't tell if they are intentionally sandbagging or not. There is no way to tell.
And if you have a pvp competitive guild you would likely still have a chance to win. The few players not joining leading to a higher average go per person may play a role but a far smaller one than roster decisions made by your guild members.
Ok, I will try to explain for the thousand time: match two people with 6m GP (total active GP 12m) against four people with 3m GP (total active GP 12m). Is this a fair fight?? In Your opinion those four people developed their rosters wrong or they are not focused enough on pvp?? Seriously... Solution is to take into matchmaking number of participating players to make matchmaking more fair. How can there be any downside to this? If in Your guild 40 players join TW, You will meet opponent with similar number of joined players and GP - then You can say who have better roster/is more pvp focused/fight better.
I can see that @Kudlaty already replied, but let me add something here as well, as you’re missing the point here and again - there is a wrong logic behind your arguments.
The whole purpose of matchmaking should be to make sure two guilds in TW are as equal as possible, to have a fair fight and then the better one (with better rooster, mods, stats, strategy, etc) wins. To achieve this, the average GP of signed up players ob both sides should be as close as possible. This can be achieved e.g. by pairing guild with similar active GP + same number of players participating in TW.
Again - I am fine with loosing the TW, even 10 times in a row, but I expect a fair fight. The example above shows that we have no chance in this TW even before it started, because the matchmaking algorithm is doing it all wrong.
Except that makes it where lazy guilds that build collector rosters end up with the same rewards as those that put the effort in. No thanks.
No worries and thanks for dropping a note! As mentioned in earlier posts - in any case (sandbagging or not) the matchmaking algorithm shouldn’t pair us together if they would finaly fix it and combine active GP with number of participating players (or at least with average GP of partiicipating players).
Currently we have what we have - boring TW on your side, and frustarting on our side
Cheers!
In an ideal situation yes, but what about times when that may not be possible.
In any case, this situation isn't that extreme. More like an average of 5.5 mil vs an average of 7 mil with less people. With the number of slots in tw, a guild with 5.5 mil gp could compete if they were focused rosters. A focused 5.5 mil gp account would probably have a GL and a few GL counters.
It wouldn't be an easy match but the main issue here is poor choices rather than poor matchmaking.
I'll concede that matchmaking is part of your problem. But not all of it. At an average gp of 5.5 mil, you have 18 people with no GL. That is 36% of your guild that is dragging you down. The other guild has only about 1.5 mil gp more on average but most have two GLs. That looks like they are more focused.
It's similar to GAC. If your guild bloats its gp with hobby farms, you'll get matches that are difficult and sometimes impossible.
Now it may be possible that those in your guild that don't have a GL, have otherwise very pvp oriented rosters. If so they should probably have two or 3 GL counters each at that GP. If that is the case (the data is unclear on that), then the battle is not impossible. Difficult but not impossible. If you are at that high of gp, as and can't counter a GL or 2, then you haven't been playing competitively.
Do You know how many characters on g13 fits into this gap of 1,5m GP on this power level? Quite a few, I would say