The Pit Challenge Tier & Relic 8 [MEGA]

Replies

  • frackme_21 wrote: »
    I wonder if CG realizes that the challenge pit is tearing guilds apart. It takes everyone going at the same time and no one posting any damage till everyone is sure they have 100%. This is causing tons of strife for guilds.

    People mess up and don't get on airplane mode, and post accidentally. Or people get annoyed that their run is getting dropped, so the get significantly worse rewards (yeah, CG they're not flattened out like you said).

    What are the odds they fix this in some way?

    Given that they’ve literally just said they’re going to be making changes to the raid id say pretty high
  • frackme_21 wrote: »
    I wonder if CG realizes that the challenge pit is tearing guilds apart. It takes everyone going at the same time and no one posting any damage till everyone is sure they have 100%. This is causing tons of strife for guilds.

    People mess up and don't get on airplane mode, and post accidentally. Or people get annoyed that their run is getting dropped, so the get significantly worse rewards (yeah, CG they're not flattened out like you said).

    What are the odds they fix this in some way?

    Doja just announced today changes are coming. I’ll bet it’s making the stacking mechanic by an individual basis as well as Probbaly adding some kind of max siphon for SLKR or the thresholds to make him less full phase clearing. I’m always skeptical of them but if they have any kind of sense thats the direction they’ll take
  • How dare people solo phase 1 during a mass coordinated attack
  • FistyCuffs wrote: »
    How dare people solo phase 1 during a mass coordinated attack

    I hear yah. I don’t see it as a big deal, considering after P1, I’ve yet to see a single team solo P2-P4. It’s not a big issue. If they really care so much, oh well. Especially if they make the stacking mechanic per individual run, not universal. If that’s the case then fine, let em make it a guild effort rather than one guy soloing with SLKR. So long as it’s per run, then it takes away one of the biggest issues with the stacking mechanic
  • Expect the worst. This is cg after all.
  • UPDATE: Changes to the CT Rancor raid are being made! More details will follow when I get them and your patience has been (and continues to be) appreciated. Although I can't go into more detail at this time, I know several posts have requested that I let y'all when something is happening and I said I'd report back what I can when I can. Not sure how long until the next update, but I promise to let you know as soon as I can.

    As a guild leader, I wish they will remove the every 20% thresholds. Because of these thresholds, we have to ask every members to gather at the same time, and this is a very difficult task. We have doctors, soldiers, policemen and etc. Does CG want me to ask them to leave their patients, responsibilities and duties during the raid? And turn on their airplane mode for few hours waiting other to participate the raid?
  • MDX wrote: »
    UPDATE: Changes to the CT Rancor raid are being made! More details will follow when I get them and your patience has been (and continues to be) appreciated. Although I can't go into more detail at this time, I know several posts have requested that I let y'all when something is happening and I said I'd report back what I can when I can. Not sure how long until the next update, but I promise to let you know as soon as I can.

    As a guild leader, I wish they will remove the every 20% thresholds. Because of these thresholds, we have to ask every members to gather at the same time, and this is a very difficult task. We have doctors, soldiers, policemen and etc. Does CG want me to ask them to leave their patients, responsibilities and duties during the raid? And turn on their airplane mode for few hours waiting other to participate the raid?

    Can't believe I'm going to defend this shower of a company, but this is quite a ridiculous statement. Life / career is more important than the game, who is going to put the game first over their life? No one. If they can't do the game because they're a doctor, then so what? They'll play the game when they can.

    Ultimately this is a mobile game that they're trying to turn into an MMO which is ridiculous of course - and the raid is a pile of something... but using people's careers as an argument is not really sensible.
  • frackme_21 wrote: »
    I wonder if CG realizes that the challenge pit is tearing guilds apart. It takes everyone going at the same time and no one posting any damage till everyone is sure they have 100%. This is causing tons of strife for guilds.

    People mess up and don't get on airplane mode, and post accidentally. Or people get annoyed that their run is getting dropped, so the get significantly worse rewards (yeah, CG they're not flattened out like you said).

    What are the odds they fix this in some way?

    We’ve lost good people due to this and then chasing a Cpit guild, we’ve also gained people to fill there spots but ultimately the same problem .

    Over 240mill guild and less than 10 people putting the effort in to turn up and try the raid.

    Me And another guild mate get consistently just under 50% so effectively we can 3 man phase 1, however it takes an hour or more to actually get a 3rd to drop in a run with gas or Padme to make up the difference.

    Nobody shows up to this raid😡😡they just can’t be **** with the effort and the coordination.

    I’ve said it before but you’ve wrecked my guild and my enthusiasm for the game, I literally haven’t spent since the Cpit came out whilst waiting to see what unfolds. Close to quoting , I feel like I should leave and “chase” a likeminded guild that can do the Cpit but my desire to play this game is wavering to be honest now.

    For the love of god......why couldn’t you just do a stacking damage penalty PER player to make it so you can’t take 2 teams into a phase without one being nerfed considerably.
    There would still need to be coordination but not the whole guild getting together for hours at the same time.

    And 7 people doing the raid, probably over a 100k spent in the game between them, they are addicts and they do not represent probably 99% of the player base .

    This company is ridiculous , old raid rehashed lazily with upped pain🥱.

    WHERE IS THE DEATH STAR RAID!!! Where is the many raid possibilities from mandalorian episodes??
    What a shower of ....
  • Adoy_IdeJ wrote: »
    MDX wrote: »
    UPDATE: Changes to the CT Rancor raid are being made! More details will follow when I get them and your patience has been (and continues to be) appreciated. Although I can't go into more detail at this time, I know several posts have requested that I let y'all when something is happening and I said I'd report back what I can when I can. Not sure how long until the next update, but I promise to let you know as soon as I can.

    As a guild leader, I wish they will remove the every 20% thresholds. Because of these thresholds, we have to ask every members to gather at the same time, and this is a very difficult task. We have doctors, soldiers, policemen and etc. Does CG want me to ask them to leave their patients, responsibilities and duties during the raid? And turn on their airplane mode for few hours waiting other to participate the raid?

    Can't believe I'm going to defend this shower of a company, but this is quite a ridiculous statement. Life / career is more important than the game, who is going to put the game first over their life? No one. If they can't do the game because they're a doctor, then so what? They'll play the game when they can.

    Ultimately this is a mobile game that they're trying to turn into an MMO which is ridiculous of course - and the raid is a pile of something... but using people's careers as an argument is not really sensible.

    I think you're missing the point of that comment. Let me put it another way: I have people from all over the world in my guild. Should I expect some people to wake up at 5am to hit the raid or stay awake until 3am in airplane mode in case they need to post?

    What we mean is that, as you mentioned, this is a mobile game and people shouldn't be forced to adjust their life to fit the game.

    Oh, and did anyone mention that this raid is a guildbreaker, too? ;)
  • TVF
    27419 posts Member
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Mupper00 wrote: »
    frackme_21 wrote: »
    I wonder if CG realizes that the challenge pit is tearing guilds apart. It takes everyone going at the same time and no one posting any damage till everyone is sure they have 100%. This is causing tons of strife for guilds.

    People mess up and don't get on airplane mode, and post accidentally. Or people get annoyed that their run is getting dropped, so the get significantly worse rewards (yeah, CG they're not flattened out like you said).

    What are the odds they fix this in some way?

    We’ve lost good people due to this and then chasing a Cpit guild, we’ve also gained people to fill there spots but ultimately the same problem .

    Over 240mill guild and less than 10 people putting the effort in to turn up and try the raid.

    Me And another guild mate get consistently just under 50% so effectively we can 3 man phase 1, however it takes an hour or more to actually get a 3rd to drop in a run with gas or Padme to make up the difference.

    Nobody shows up to this raid😡😡they just can’t be **** with the effort and the coordination.

    I’ve said it before but you’ve wrecked my guild and my enthusiasm for the game, I literally haven’t spent since the Cpit came out whilst waiting to see what unfolds. Close to quoting , I feel like I should leave and “chase” a likeminded guild that can do the Cpit but my desire to play this game is wavering to be honest now.

    For the love of god......why couldn’t you just do a stacking damage penalty PER player to make it so you can’t take 2 teams into a phase without one being nerfed considerably.
    There would still need to be coordination but not the whole guild getting together for hours at the same time.

    And 7 people doing the raid, probably over a 100k spent in the game between them, they are addicts and they do not represent probably 99% of the player base .

    This company is ridiculous , old raid rehashed lazily with upped pain🥱.

    WHERE IS THE DEATH STAR RAID!!! Where is the many raid possibilities from mandalorian episodes??
    What a shower of ....

    At least I am a software developer for more than 10 years, User Experience definitely is one of the most important things we have to consider when we are planning to implement any new features.

    SWGOH is a worldwide mobile game, their players or users are coming from all over the world and with different occupations. They should give their users with great experience and enjoy playing their game, not destroying people life, or reject certain classes of people to play this game. Do you means doctors, soldiers, and other professionals are not qualified to enjoy this game? As @SarcSennex mentioned, it’s not only inconvenient for certain occupations but also for guilds which have members from all over the world.

    When CG design the raid, they should consider how they can make a challenging raid and at the same time they won’t screw up their players experience. Not the players have to design our timetable to fit the game, or hiding in the toilet from our boss or wife lol. As a developer, we strive to make our users enjoy our product instead of suffering our product, this is an ethic of a developer.

    No doubt the thresholds force all the guild members to complete every phases at the same time, and airplane mode is another key to success. For short term it’s challenging, but this is not the way for long term. People have their own reasons they can’t make it. One of a suggested solution is if a guild completed the raid more than 3 times then the thresholds will be removed?

    Besides that, this is not only my comment, but also comments from my guild members. They love this game and willing to contribute to our guild and at the same time they want to take care of their real life. As a guild leader I am trying to voice out for them and hope I can help them.
  • Kyno
    28149 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.
  • SarcSennex wrote: »
    Adoy_IdeJ wrote: »
    MDX wrote: »
    UPDATE: Changes to the CT Rancor raid are being made! More details will follow when I get them and your patience has been (and continues to be) appreciated. Although I can't go into more detail at this time, I know several posts have requested that I let y'all when something is happening and I said I'd report back what I can when I can. Not sure how long until the next update, but I promise to let you know as soon as I can.

    As a guild leader, I wish they will remove the every 20% thresholds. Because of these thresholds, we have to ask every members to gather at the same time, and this is a very difficult task. We have doctors, soldiers, policemen and etc. Does CG want me to ask them to leave their patients, responsibilities and duties during the raid? And turn on their airplane mode for few hours waiting other to participate the raid?

    Can't believe I'm going to defend this shower of a company, but this is quite a ridiculous statement. Life / career is more important than the game, who is going to put the game first over their life? No one. If they can't do the game because they're a doctor, then so what? They'll play the game when they can.

    Ultimately this is a mobile game that they're trying to turn into an MMO which is ridiculous of course - and the raid is a pile of something... but using people's careers as an argument is not really sensible.

    I think you're missing the point of that comment. Let me put it another way: I have people from all over the world in my guild. Should I expect some people to wake up at 5am to hit the raid or stay awake until 3am in airplane mode in case they need to post?

    What we mean is that, as you mentioned, this is a mobile game and people shouldn't be forced to adjust their life to fit the game.

    Oh, and did anyone mention that this raid is a guildbreaker, too? ;)

    Well on that I agree, it's been badly thought out - but... if a guild expects you to wake at 5am, then I'd suggest you find another guild. I found a guild that suits my time zone... but, this raid has caused international guilds to suffer again - but international guilds are always going to have issues, whether that is TW, TB deployments, or anything else. Someone will always miss out because you can never find a time, or a strategy that suits everyone.

    I'm not wanting to defend CG's decision on this raid, as I agree it's appalling the amount of coordination that it requires, and the lack of imagination / creativity for a "new" raid.

    However guilds break all the time. Some people want to be more competitive, some are happy to coast, some just leach the rewards without doing any work, some don't care about winning, just want to farm Ugnaught to R7 - they're all valid, but you cannot have them in the same guild as people will want different things from the game.

    As the game evolves, and as people's rosters change, and their thoughts towards the game changes, they may find that their guilds are too competitive, not competitive enough or whatever.

    however regardless of that, this raid does need an overhaul. Despite clearing it easily and in under an hour, I have to hang onto my phone for an hour on AP mode on regularly (which means I could miss calls) just to post some damage. So on that I agree, it's really awful game design.
  • Kyno
    28149 posts Moderator
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.
  • Feel we should be getting more out of this game for the time and investment .
    Bought Valhiem on steam for £15 two weeks ago and have over 60 hours on it already😳 , incredible value compared to mobile games in general .
  • zeratul021
    20 posts Member
    edited February 23
    Please remove the 20% stat boosts, rather replace it it with limit for a single team damage or whatevs.
    It's terrible for time management, lot of us have work & families, not to mention different time zones. Some of us work in healthcare & life sciences, I'm pretty sure even CG is aware of the current situation.
    You really force us & box us into corner here with such steep time management requirements. And I'm not even talking about really inadequate and random rewards considering the organization and time investment needed from 40+ people :(
    Game should be fun, Challenge Rancor is really making it feel like a work chore :(
  • TVF
    27419 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    Which is why I said the damage threshold is poorly thought out.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    28149 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.

    I also do not want to start an argument.

    I would be interested in hearing solutions to this raid other than attacking at the same time. Yes I know 7 people cleared this raid but they still had to coordinate with extreme rosters and investment.

    Now if you wanna say that international guilds have a guild problem fine. If that is the stance CG wants to take, the problem will not exist for a lot of these players who end up deciding the game is no longer worth their time or money.

    Thankfully, they are making a change. We will see what it is.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    Those have been choices made by your guild. This is a case where game mechanics require it.
  • Kyno
    28149 posts Moderator
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.

    I also do not want to start an argument.

    I would be interested in hearing solutions to this raid other than attacking at the same time. Yes I know 7 people cleared this raid but they still had to coordinate with extreme rosters and investment.

    Now if you wanna say that international guilds have a guild problem fine. If that is the stance CG wants to take, the problem will not exist for a lot of these players who end up deciding the game is no longer worth their time or money.

    Thankfully, they are making a change. We will see what it is.

    Yeah, no one is taking that stance, good to just move on and see what comes.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.

    Kyno I don’t buy the “the game doesn’t require damage coordination” for crancor.
    Yes it can be done with a smaller part of the guild, but runs absolutely need to be coordinated.

    If you seriously claim otherwise, I challenge you to show how challenge rancor is to be beaten without coordinating runs.
    Especially in a fashion which can be done by more than the top 25 guilds.
  • Kyno
    28149 posts Moderator
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.

    Kyno I don’t buy the “the game doesn’t require damage coordination” for crancor.
    Yes it can be done with a smaller part of the guild, but runs absolutely need to be coordinated.

    If you seriously claim otherwise, I challenge you to show how challenge rancor is to be beaten without coordinating runs.
    Especially in a fashion which can be done by more than the top 25 guilds.

    I was speaking technically, as there is nothing in game forcing this. Because saying this is new and thay any guild previously using this technique for other things is only technically a guild problem, it's an actual problem guilds face, not everyone is at the top end.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    All raids were guild breakers.

    The damage threshold is poorly thought out, but that doesn't change the fact that new challenging content has always shuffled guilds up.

    Whilst there is some truth to that, the previous content shuffled guilds up because guilds had members who didn't have the roster or skill level to contribute. This is the first time content has been punitive for people who can't play the game at the same time as their guild mates.

    I have been in guilds that had timelines (windows where action was required)for both TW attacks and phases of the Sith raid. Yes, nothing like the exactness required here, but we lost members when each of those were implemented.

    The game never forced your guild to act in this way...your guild did. That’s on your guild, not the game.

    Very true, but there are many that I believe dont know or dont remember that there are many guilds out in position to do things they may not expect.

    In luls many mid range guilds may thrive due to big players looking to min max, and when new content hits they have to make it work or lose the ability to do that content or break apart.

    This happens each and every time, and it's not always about difficulty.

    This may not be the way the game is for some, but there are more different situations out there than many realize due to all the factors people list in this thread.

    There's a great quote from Scrubs that all these guild horror stories make me think of, "Statistics don't matter to the individual."

    Let's say 95% of guilds are seeing no serious issues besides the headache of coordinating damage. I'm either in one of those 95% or I'm in one of those 5%. If I'm in one of those 5%, knowing that it's not a problem for the other 95% doesn't help me.

    I agree that no matter what new guild content is released, no matter how hard CG tries to make it disrupt as few guilds as possible, someone is going to be negatively affected by it. So the response to these guild strife stories should not be, "Sorry, bro. That's what happens." The response should be, "Is this different than previous releases of new guild content? Or is your guild not a good fit for you anymore?"

    In the case of cPit, it could be either. I'm sure there are some guild that fall in that mid-range group you described, and they would have issues regardless of the coordination schtick. But this coordination mechanic is new. So it's fair to assume (and we know for a fact based on some posters here) that there are guilds being hurt by this, and it is different than previous releases of new guild content. In my opinion, the coordination required should have been 100% foreseeable (unless they were testing it with the stacking bugged, as has been opined by many here). So (some) people are justified in their outrage that this happened at all and that it has taken so long for CG to address it.

    So I'm not trying to open an argument (not speaking about you), but you seems to be highlighting my point.

    This isnt new, it may be new to the top 5% of guilds, but it's not new, and the game doesn't have a requirement of all players attacking in this fashion, this is the player based solution. This tactic has been used by guilds before, but it is dismissed as " a guild choice" and a "guild problem" not " a game problem". That same logic from the post I quoted could be used to say that international guilds have a "guild problem" and not "a game problem".

    Anyway this is all moot, as they are working on some change and we can all see how this rolls out.

    Kyno I don’t buy the “the game doesn’t require damage coordination” for crancor.
    Yes it can be done with a smaller part of the guild, but runs absolutely need to be coordinated.

    If you seriously claim otherwise, I challenge you to show how challenge rancor is to be beaten without coordinating runs.
    Especially in a fashion which can be done by more than the top 25 guilds.

    I was speaking technically, as there is nothing in game forcing this. Because saying this is new and thay any guild previously using this technique for other things is only technically a guild problem, it's an actual problem guilds face, not everyone is at the top end.

    Now I'm curious. I've never been in a guild where coordination remotely near this level was required (practically, not technically) to clear content/earn rewards. What were guilds coordinating this much for in the past?
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