Challence Tier Rancor - The design flaw to end all design flaws

Vi are a 290m GP guild trying the Challenge tier Rancor raid. We are likely a bit too weak to beat it yet, but we were trying, having fun and would likely get stuck somewhere in phase 3. Which is fine. We would try it, practice and return next time with a chance to beat it.
Then disaster struck. A member had a mental blackout and took Papa Pig down below 80%. That crippled our few Rey teams from 14-18% down to 3-4% effectively making it game over.
One mistake, from one player. Game over. That is not fun. Games that isn't fun stop being played. Fast.

Replies

  • If LSGTB is anything to go by, they are not changing the challenge tier.

    CG’s official stance: Git gud.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    If LSGTB is anything to go by, they are not changing the challenge tier.

    You are likely right, but the difference is, that LSGTB is just absurdly hard, this raid is as well AND one mistake can ruin everything. For the entire guild. That is a first.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    If LSGTB is anything to go by, they are not changing the challenge tier.

    You are likely right, but the difference is, that LSGTB is just absurdly hard, this raid is as well AND one mistake can ruin everything. For the entire guild. That is a first.

    I agree with you, it’s just CG doesn’t listen to the community. LSGTB is a prime example of this.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    If LSGTB is anything to go by, they are not changing the challenge tier.

    You are likely right, but the difference is, that LSGTB is just absurdly hard, this raid is as well AND one mistake can ruin everything. For the entire guild. That is a first.

    I agree with you, it’s just CG doesn’t listen to the community. LSGTB is a prime example of this.
    LSTB is fine now.

    Admittedly that’s 1 year after release, which doesn’t bode well for the Challenge Pit.
  • Waqui
    7987 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    If LSGTB is anything to go by, they are not changing the challenge tier.

    You are likely right, but the difference is, that LSGTB is just absurdly hard, this raid is as well AND one mistake can ruin everything. For the entire guild. That is a first.

    I agree with you, it’s just CG doesn’t listen to the community. LSGTB is a prime example of this.
    LSTB is fine now.

    Admittedly that’s 1 year after release, which doesn’t bode well for the Challenge Pit.

    LSGTB is not fine now. Content that can’t be 100% completed a year after release is a failure.

    We complete it every month. No, we don't get top rewards for max stars but we are rewarded according to our results. Even if a player makes a mistake we still win rewards - possibly less rewards but we don't lose everything.

    The new Challenge Tier raid is different. One single mistake early on can render further battles futile.
  • If you need to coordinate so everyone plays at the same time it's just pointless. Who has time to sit on their phone and a laptop to play a mobile phone game?

    Not that we're anywhere near being able to beat it. But I know we as a guild aren't bothered about trying to herd cats just for a raid.
  • We have the same thing happen again, one run ruins it all (I made the mistake btw).
    I think it is the worst design I have yet seen in this game
  • I’m curious how they managed to test this raid with only one laptop
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  • I’m curious how they managed to test this raid with only one laptop

    12 people all sitting around it at the same time? :D
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • It's really what all this comes down to in the end.. one person should not be able to mess up an entire raid run for a guild. That's ridiculous.

    I agree with the people saying they probably won't change it because over time perhaps new characters and relic levels will make it easier. That's fine if that's what it is... but the mechanics need to change or it needs to be more flexible for officer management. Let officers pause the raid to prevent mis-posts or add a "post damages" button after you die so you don't need airplane mode for all members. Anything to prevent one person accidentally costing the entire guild the whole raid and flushing 180K worth of tickets down the drain. Come to think of it... if they aren't going to make life easier maybe they should refund the 180K tickets if you abandon the raid so that at the very least you can re-try the attempt.

    On pit raid days, my entire day is basically wasted trying to coordinate runs - which we have to do in split segments (one morning and one night) because we are a spread out guild as far as time zones go. P.I.T.F.A. and unreasonable for a mobile game in my opinion.
  • LendersQuiz
    646 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Something simple that could be added is adding a reset function. Make the reset function limited to 1-3 times. Keep the clock the same, just reset the raid.

    I agree with the OP, if one person makes a single mistake, that's it, the raid is over

    Lost a battle in TB? You may miss a star but the whole TB isn't over. You didn't take out a turret on the tank? The whole raid isn't done. It took you 3 battles in TW to beat a team? TW isn't over.

    No other guild wide game mode in this game is like that.
  • IronCross
    491 posts Member
    edited January 6
    The raid itself isn’t bad, just the need to have so many people on at the exact same time. Just terrible...

    Remove the 20% ramp up and raid is fixed.
  • The dream scenario*:
    Every time you finish a battle in the raid, you get a popup (disabled in options) and can choose between: "forfait", "deal damage" and "submit" (or whatever they should be called).
    "Forfait" just leaves the run and 0 damage is dealt and no toons is used. "Deal damage" is just like now, you spend the toons and deal the damage". "Submit" will set the run aside and leave you to do whatever you want. The officers get a screen with all the submitted runs and can choose to accept the damage or cancel the run.
    The officers can block "deal damage" and/or "submit, thereby hindering accidental damage
    Players can only have 1 run submitted at the same time, submitting a new run overwrites the old one.

    *can be adjusted to GAC and TW as well. No game should have it's competitive aspects be dependent on flight mode"
  • While I like this idea of a forfeit, deal damage, submit button I feel its not something that should be set aside and then let officers choose which ones to accept and which dont. As an officer you could just dismiss people that would push you out of top10 for example in favour of others that are lower so its susceptible to abuse.

    A button that just lets you forfeit or submit would be enough. Then members wouldnt need airplane mode though they'd still have to wait for the go ahead to press submit. Not ideal but better than what it is now.
  • Yeah the officer submit is way too prone for abuse and allows others to interfere with your gameplay. They'd never do it for that reason alone.

    Forfeit / Complete makes the most sense. With the usual extra "Are you sure you want to forfeit? All damage scored will be lost." warning.
  • Just an update on this one single aspect of the raid that makes it a train wreck
    We have phase 1-3 down to almost routine as 3-5 people can do each phase. Still a chore, but it can be managed.
    Phase 4 though... All but 1 time have we suffered from people doing damage on accident and ruining the raid for us all.
    We are at a point were a lot wont try any more, why bother? It's sad.
  • IronCross wrote: »
    The raid itself isn’t bad, just the need to have so many people on at the exact same time. Just terrible...

    Remove the 20% ramp up and raid is fixed.

    To be fair just removing that mechanic would likely make the raid too easy for SLKR to solo.

    Remove the mechanic and replace it with stacking dmg and speed every 2% or so in an individual run. The rate at which it stacks can be adjusted to hit their targets.

    Another solution would be to limit siphoning to 100 stacks. This would prevent SLKR from destroying this and any new raids but still leave him doing decent damage and relatively unchanged in the rest of the game.
  • To be fair just removing that mechanic would likely make the raid too easy for SLKR to solo.

    Remove the mechanic and replace it with stacking dmg and speed every 2% or so in an individual run. The rate at which it stacks can be adjusted to hit their targets.

    Another solution would be to limit siphoning to 100 stacks. This would prevent SLKR from destroying this and any new raids but still leave him doing decent damage and relatively unchanged in the rest of the game.

    Fair and easy solutions.
    Another option would be rewards for each phase. Sure, we might not get rewards for phase 4, but we would get something for all the work. It would help motivate members.

  • StarSon
    4809 posts Member
    The dream scenario*:
    Every time you finish a battle in the raid, you get a popup (disabled in options) and can choose between: "forfait", "deal damage" and "submit" (or whatever they should be called).
    "Forfait" just leaves the run and 0 damage is dealt and no toons is used. "Deal damage" is just like now, you spend the toons and deal the damage". "Submit" will set the run aside and leave you to do whatever you want. The officers get a screen with all the submitted runs and can choose to accept the damage or cancel the run.
    The officers can block "deal damage" and/or "submit, thereby hindering accidental damage
    Players can only have 1 run submitted at the same time, submitting a new run overwrites the old one.

    *can be adjusted to GAC and TW as well. No game should have it's competitive aspects be dependent on flight mode"

    This sounds an awful lot like "work" and "quality of life," so it's pretty unlikely anything remotely similar takes place.
  • IronCross wrote: »
    The raid itself isn’t bad, just the need to have so many people on at the exact same time. Just terrible...

    Remove the 20% ramp up and raid is fixed.

    To be fair just removing that mechanic would likely make the raid too easy for SLKR to solo.

    Remove the mechanic and replace it with stacking dmg and speed every 2% or so in an individual run. The rate at which it stacks can be adjusted to hit their targets.

    Another solution would be to limit siphoning to 100 stacks. This would prevent SLKR from destroying this and any new raids but still leave him doing decent damage and relatively unchanged in the rest of the game.

    Or even just leave the 20% bump in, but on a personal basis, not universal. It's amazing - of all of the ways CG could have accomplished their stated goals about reducing in-guild friction and raids not being easily solo'd, they always manage to choose the option that is the least player-friendly. It's truly a gift. The Mark of a well run company.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    The raid itself isn’t bad, just the need to have so many people on at the exact same time. Just terrible...

    Remove the 20% ramp up and raid is fixed.

    To be fair just removing that mechanic would likely make the raid too easy for SLKR to solo.

    Remove the mechanic and replace it with stacking dmg and speed every 2% or so in an individual run. The rate at which it stacks can be adjusted to hit their targets.

    Another solution would be to limit siphoning to 100 stacks. This would prevent SLKR from destroying this and any new raids but still leave him doing decent damage and relatively unchanged in the rest of the game.

    Or even just leave the 20% bump in, but on a personal basis, not universal. It's amazing - of all of the ways CG could have accomplished their stated goals about reducing in-guild friction and raids not being easily solo'd, they always manage to choose the option that is the least player-friendly. It's truly a gift. The Mark of a well run company.

    I see what you did there.


    Wouldnt a beta test program catch this? We are told there is a beta test program, you can even apply for it, yet we get things like this. If there is such a program, its good to know that CG ignores them as much as they ignore us.
  • Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    I see what you did there.


    Wouldnt a beta test program catch this? We are told there is a beta test program, you can even apply for it, yet we get things like this. If there is such a program, its good to know that CG ignores them as much as they ignore us.

    Who would we guess got access to a beta test? F2P players? Nahh. Fisk? Dolphins? Whales? Krakens? Nahh Über Krakens? Yes, that is correct. That sounds exactly like something they would do. Who are the only guilds befitting from the way the raid is designed? The top guilds with their über krakens...
    [removes tinfoil hat B) ]

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