Feeling the squeeze - Gear crunch and game requirements starting to get me down

f82bd
57 posts Member
Hey there EA/CG,

Just a bit of feedback:

To level set: I play with a couple of main accounts both of which I have in average, below 200m GP guilds. I've been playing this game for a couple of years now and have spent over $600 on at least one of my main accounts. I get first place in fleet arena daily and can work my way up to first in squad in at least one of my accounts. I also get top 3 in raids regularly.

My feedback: This game has always been a bit of a farming grind but I feel like the grind has gotten much slower. It takes too long now to get a new character to a usable level. There's new content everywhere but since you need g12/g13 for anything to be useful in most of the playing modes, and mixed with the gear crunch, the majority of the new content is meaningless/untouchable to a player at my playing and spending level. It used to be that I'd play with a new squad, DR, Padme, GAS, for six months and move on to the next squad and farm. But now it is taking me over a year to farm a legendary character and I'm left playing with the same team/s for much longer. Add that the new game modes often require levels of characters beyond what I have, PIT, LS Geo, many of the GCs, where I just get blown up, I'm ending up just stuck playing the same modes in the same way for much longer.

I've seen a couple of changes lately which are great, e.g. double shard drops, and bonus shards in cantina. But these changes don't at all seem to balance out against the real challenges I face on a daily basis, i.e. gear 13 requirements, r8 opponents, Galactic Legend requirements and opponents, Mando Baskar requirements.

I can see that this is a recognized challenge based on the above mentioned changes we have already seen, as well as some of the developer comments and videos posted by various popular Youtubers. But my feedback is really to say that I think some of these changes are a little misdirected for a player at my level and not making a difference. I can't imagine that someone at my paying/playing level is not of value to the game developers. Is the economy of the game so distorted that someone has to pay more than $300/yr to play this game?

One easy solution: Open up the g12 and under gear crunch while still maintaining and profiting from g13 gear. Give players a difference making amount of gear like stun guns, stun cuffs, carbantis in some mode or daily reward.

Replies

  • Kyno
    27450 posts Moderator
    This is great feedback and I just wanted to make one note.

    The updates where not directly meant to benefit "older players", they were stated to be a neutral change. That being said, I think its a player in your area to say these changes were of no benefit. you seem to be saying you have played for around 2 years. Do you have all the toons that are on the accelerated list? if not, there is a benefit to you. you will not get them in half the time and have more time/energy/crystals to spend on gearing them, than before the change.

    they also made note that they did this change first and wanted to let it settle in before they will try to look at other economies. While we dont know what this will bring, I am hopeful they will make some direct changes to make getting to g12/13 quicker/easier.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    "A player at your level"? If this is one of your accounts:

    https://swgoh.gg/p/887344419/characters/

    .... I'd say that you are doing quite well for your level (3.2 million GP). Yes, you don't have any of the strongest teams for challenge tier Rancor raids but contrary to your claim you have viable teams for all other new content:

    You already have 3 viable teams for Republic Offensive (LS Geos TB). You skipped a couple of the "usual" teams for Separatist Might (NS and Traya trio) but nevertheless you have enough viable teams to do your part in your 165 Million GP guild. In a guild at that level you don't need to take your characters/teams to g13 for them to be viable in TB/TW. The same goes for you personally in GAC. I'm sure your characters at g12 (or even a few at g11) can do their job in GAC.

    Yes, you would have a long way to go to unlock SLKR or GL Rey since you've skipped farming FO and Resistance characters altogether until now. However, it looks like you are farming for SEP and are rather close to having all the required characters ready for him. Not bad at all at your 3.2 million GP. However, relic'ing characters like Tarkin, RG and Krennic while still having DS at g12 and Veers/Starck at purple gear levels hurts you in GA - but that's a different topic.

    Getting blown up in GC? No Mando Beskar available for GC? You just had a GC where you could easily get the top tier rewards crate with your roster. You are probably able to get the second highest tier rewards in most other GCs. Again: Quite good at 3.2 Million GP.

    What more did you expect for "a player at your level"?

  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    And regarding the new changes not helping "players at your level":

    They will certainly help you farm FO, Resistance, NS and other characters/teams that have been in the game for more than a year. Challenge tiers in assault battles will also help you gearing/relicing your characters. GCs help everyone (and an update is coming soon).

    Most players in your guild have Traya at 7* while you haven't even unlocked her. Did you join them recently (and hence only done hSTR for a short period of time)? Just curious.

  • f82bd
    57 posts Member
    I have to say I'm a bit apprehensive to respond to you Waqui since you have been so aggressive in the past with your responses to my posts. This feedback is for CG/EA. My main point was around farming and requirements, and how relatively recent changes are affecting my play. I think most players would agree with much of what I'm saying, i.e. that toons generally need to be g12/g13 to be viable, that farming and meta requirements have increased two and three fold, etc. Of course this feedback is specific to my pay and play level as I've indicated. Additionally, while I'd like to avoid going into detail about unrelated and less pertinent topics to my initial post regarding specific squads or toons I may or may not have, I do get blown up in game modes like LS Geo and the current GC. Getting blown up is not my issue. It's that new, extremely high-end game modes are not often playable, and this fact mixed with the gear crunch and new meta requirements, have resulted in a stagnation of play for me given what I'm willing to pay and how active I am. I'm playing the same modes at the same levels for longer periods of time. Your definition of "viable" I'm assuming is a Padme, GAS, and Jedi squad, and while yes with these squads you can sometimes get 4/4 in a phase in LS geo, more often it's quite the opposite. And this sample comes from experiences across many guilds. Again, I think that an examination of toons and squads and how or why I do or don't get blown up is a rabbit hole conversation, and missing my main points.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    edited January 10
    You should learn to distinguish between disagreement and aggression.

    My feedback was meant both for you and the game designers.

    I wouldn't expect CG to design end-game content to suit incomplete teams or teams with suboptimal (or even weak) mods like you do. An example:

    LS TB is playable when you have reliced GAS, 501st, Padme and jedi teams with Shaak Ti on the side - contrary to what you claim. However, when I checked your mods I saw some obvious flaws on the first 2 characters I checked (Padmé and JKA). If you want your GR team to perform better you really should mod them better. It's not all about gear and gear crunch like you claim. Don't underestimate the importance of mods. Yes, you have the Negotiator but with Umbaran as your only GR tank ship (no Clone Sgt. or Y-wing) you will have a hard time with your incomplete fleet (and more so if your guild doesn't fill all squadrons in the first zone).

    I don't see this as a game design problem like you do.

    Yes, GL requirements are much higher than the requirements for legendary characters but despite this you are close to having fulfilled the requirements for SEE. Not bad for a player at your stage. After unlocking SEE you can enjoy the much shorter farms for CLS, BB8, JTR and the triumvirate all of which you have skipped so far. Those characters will help you in GAC which has been a source for frustration for you previously.
    Post edited by Waqui on
  • Waqui- You're breaking down mods and toons on one of my accounts and talking about stuff that isn't really relevant to the main point of my post. You seem to be answering still why I get blown up in LS RO. This was originally given just as an example of a higher end game mode. It's the combination of the higher end game modes, higher meta requirements, and the g12/13 gear crunch that I was describing and how these changes have affected gaming for me and players like me.

    And even though I think it's a bit of a tangential conversation to respond to your point about mods in LS RO, I'll say just a couple of things. Mod setups change all the time depending on what the toons are used for or what the mods are needed for. Am I playing LS Rep Offensive now? No. So the mod setup isn't necessarily representative for what I would use in that game mode. The guild for that account doesn't even do LS RO because the majority of the guild gets blown up in it. Besides the tb is hugely dependent on guild GP and make-up anyway. But again this was only an example like PIT or many of the GCs of newer, higher end game modes. I'm not taking issue with higher end game modes or that I do or don't get blown up. You seem to be missing the main point and purposefully focusing on small details just for sake of arguing.

    You also keep referring to this one account and assuming I don't already have the shard requirements for toons req'd for farms like CLS, etc. I actually do have these requirements but just haven't unlocked these toons. The same for Galactic Republic fleet tanks. This is part of what I was describing about content being unusable/untouchable. Of course there will always be an opportunity cost to what someone decides to farm but because of so many of the combined changes and requirements for a toon to be viable, I'm even farther from being able to use some of this new content, or as you've pointed out even some of the old content.

    I've also never said the double drops aren't helpful. I actually said that they were great but they don't balance out the other daily issues I'm having and have already described.

    And because of everything I've described, I find myself in a situation where I'm playing the same game modes the same way with the same toons for longer periods of time. This was my feedback. Will mods change that? No. Will the double drop changes change this? Not substantially. Will not farming a GL? Maybe a little but there would be other longer term consequences. I could change guilds but that also seems like a rather short sighted solution.

    I've suggested a possible solution already. And I think something is coming to address this squeeze. I think it has to or else people will stop playing at a higher rate. I just hope these changes come sooner rather than later.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    You've claimed that the majority of the new content is meaningless for a player at your playing/spending level.
    You've described that you get blown away in LS Geos TB (RO).
    You've claimed that RO is unplayable.
    And you've claimed that RO often requires higher geared characters than what you have.

    That's what I'm responding to. You have geared teams but there's more to playing RO than gear - there's mods and completing your teams. If you play RO using incomplete teams or using suboptimal/wrong types of mods on your key characters it's not a game design issue. That was my feedback to you (and to CG) - take it or leave it. Just don't claim that you only mentioned RO as an example of new content.

    Here's some more feedback:

    In your OP you complained about your trouble with g13 and r8 opponents. Once you move on to farming some of all those "old" characters that you've skipped so far the recent updates will make farming them much faster and leave you with more resources for gear/relic materials. On top of that the rewards from newer content f.ex. GC and new tiers to Assault Battles will help you gear/relic your characters even faster. That will help you change your situation. How are those updates meaningless to you?

    If you're tired of playing the same game modes over and over you could try moving on to a guild that actually plays RO instead of LS Hoth TB. Farming a couple more teams for Separatist Might may help you get accepted to a higher GP guild. Alternatively, try to convince your guild to move on to RO even if some of your guildies get blown up there. Or do a rotation. I guess you could score 7* - 9* in RO depending on the level of activity in your guild.

    You complained about having trouble with g13 and r8 opponents. I assume you're referring to GAC since you do well in squad arena. I see you've followed some of the advice I gave you back in April in your discussion about GAC matchmaking. You could do even better by not relicing your characters until you really need it (See my first response in this discussion for examples). If a characters does the job at g13/r0 stockpile your relic materials until later.

    Yes, I'm aware that I base my feedback on only this one account of yours. You may be able to use my feedback for your other account(s) or you may not. If you want feedback for those accounts as well feel free to post link(s) to the profiles.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    You've claimed that the majority of the new content is meaningless for a player at your playing/spending level.
    You've described that you get blown away in LS Geos TB (RO).
    You've claimed that RO is unplayable.
    And you've claimed that RO often requires higher geared characters than what you have.

    I mentioned LS geo along with PIT and some GCs as new content that seems to be built more for future content. And yes my squads have been blown up in LS geo, PIT and some GCs regardless of modding. I never said RO is unplayable but I have said that it is also highly dependent on guild GP and make-up. I never said new content is meaningless. I think all the new content is great but access to it is limited because of all the factors I've described. It doesn't matter how much new content there is when you can't access it.
    Waqui wrote: »
    That's what I'm responding to. You have geared teams but there's more to playing RO than gear - there's mods and completing your teams. If you play RO using incomplete teams or using suboptimal/wrong types of mods on your key characters it's not a game design issue. That was my feedback to you (and to CG) - take it or leave it. Just don't claim that you only mentioned RO as an example of new content.

    I'm really regretting even mentioning LS geo, ughh. Forget about it. You're missing the point. Sure modding and different teams can have different outcomes. But I have guilds of people that would agree that LS geo is more of an end game game mode.
    Waqui wrote: »
    Here's some more feedback:

    In your OP you complained about your trouble with g13 and r8 opponents. Once you move on to farming some of all those "old" characters that you've skipped so far the recent updates will make farming them much faster and leave you with more resources for gear/relic materials. On top of that the rewards from newer content f.ex. GC and new tiers to Assault Battles will help you gear/relic your characters even faster. That will help you change your situation. How are those updates meaningless to you?

    No complaining here just offering feedback. I have multiple accounts and have the characters you've mentioned. My CLS squads still needs to be g12/13 to be viable in most game modes. I also already said that I'm getting to the top of squad and fleet arenas, and finishing top 3 in raids. I don't see a dramatic difference in gear from assault battles between accounts. And anyway this is a raindrop in the ocean compared to GL requirements and the g13 gear crunch.
    Waqui wrote: »
    If you're tired of playing the same game modes over and over you could try moving on to a guild that actually plays RO instead of LS Hoth TB. Farming a couple more teams for Separatist Might may help you get accepted to a higher GP guild. Alternatively, try to convince your guild to move on to RO even if some of your guildies get blown up there. Or do a rotation. I guess you could score 7* - 9* in RO depending on the level of activity in your guild.

    This is about the first real answer you've given to my OP although I mentioned it first in my last reply. I could change guilds but is that really the answer for everyone in my situation? Just abandon the relationships I've made with my guildies. And how do I get my guild to finish out PIT? This was really my point, that end game content is sometimes unplayable however you define what end game is. Obviously, you think LS geo is beginner level stuff.
    Waqui wrote: »
    You complained about having trouble with g13 and r8 opponents. I assume you're referring to GAC since you do well in squad arena. I see you've followed some of the advice I gave you back in April in your discussion about GAC matchmaking. You could do even better by not relicing your characters until you really need it (See my first response in this discussion for examples). If a characters does the job at g13/r0 stockpile your relic materials until later.

    Not complaining just providing feedback. Again, I think that most would agree g12/13 is required for most toons to be viable in most game modes. Otherwise I didn't mention GAC.
    Waqui wrote: »
    Yes, I'm aware that I base my feedback on only this one account of yours. You may be able to use my feedback for your other account(s) or you may not. If you want feedback for those accounts as well feel free to post link(s) to the profiles.

    Thanks for the offer.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    edited January 11
    f82bd wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    You've claimed that the majority of the new content is meaningless for a player at your playing/spending level.
    You've described that you get blown away in LS Geos TB (RO).
    You've claimed that RO is unplayable.
    And you've claimed that RO often requires higher geared characters than what you have.

    I mentioned LS geo along with PIT and some GCs as new content that seems to be built more for future content. And yes my squads have been blown up in LS geo, PIT and some GCs regardless of modding. I never said RO is unplayable but I have said that it is also highly dependent on guild GP and make-up. I never said new content is meaningless. I think all the new content is great but access to it is limited because of all the factors I've described. It doesn't matter how much new content there is when you can't access it.

    You called most of the new content meaningless/untouchable and gave RO, Rancor and some GCs as examples. But ok, you don't think any more that the new content is meaningless and that RO is untouchable. Fair enough.

    Yes, access to end-game content is limited for players with mid-game rosters and guilds with mediocre GP. I don't see a problem here.

    Yes, you may struggle with tiers V through VII in some GCs, but you can win rewards in all of them - and even win top rewards in some. None of them are untouchable like you claim. There's a challenge for both novice players, mid-game players and veteran players and a progressive rewards system. There wouldn't be much challenge for veteran players if players at your stage could complete all feats.

    You request easier access to gear to be able to beat the new content. But as I see it the new content is in itself a source for more gear - both GCs, RO and challenge tiers in assault battles with Challenge tier Rancor raids as the only exception. It does make a difference for players at your stage contrary to your claim. You described it as raindrops but that's how this game is designed - lots of small raindrops every day with a few snowballs here and there.
    f82bd wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    If you're tired of playing the same game modes over and over you could try moving on to a guild that actually plays RO instead of LS Hoth TB. Farming a couple more teams for Separatist Might may help you get accepted to a higher GP guild. Alternatively, try to convince your guild to move on to RO even if some of your guildies get blown up there. Or do a rotation. I guess you could score 7* - 9* in RO depending on the level of activity in your guild.

    This is about the first real answer you've given to my OP although I mentioned it first in my last reply.

    For your next discussion I would recommend that you only include what want to discuss and leave out any stuff you don't actually mean. If you don't think new content is meaningless and that RO is untouchable don't describe it as such.
    f82bd wrote: »
    I could change guilds but is that really the answer for everyone in my situation? Just abandon the relationships I've made with my guildies.
    Up to you. If you want to play RO you only have those two options: Convince your guild to play RO instead of Hoth TB or find another guild.
    f82bd wrote: »
    And how do I get my guild to finish out PIT?
    If you expect a 165 Million GP guild to beat the newest end-game guild event you have a problem. I can't help you with that problem. I doubt anyone can.
    f82bd wrote: »
    This was really my point, that end game content is sometimes unplayable however you define what end game is. Obviously, you think LS geo is beginner level stuff.

    You have 3 (gear wise) viable teams for RO. If you see your self as a beginner level player then I guess we can call it beginner level stuff if you prefer. No objections on my side.
    f82bd wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    You complained about having trouble with g13 and r8 opponents. I assume you're referring to GAC since you do well in squad arena. I see you've followed some of the advice I gave you back in April in your discussion about GAC matchmaking. You could do even better by not relicing your characters until you really need it (See my first response in this discussion for examples). If a characters does the job at g13/r0 stockpile your relic materials until later.

    Not complaining just providing feedback. Again, I think that most would agree g12/13 is required for most toons to be viable in most game modes. Otherwise I didn't mention GAC.

    You complained about your trouble (challenges) with r8 opponents while you're doing well in arenas. Which opponents did you mean if not in GAC then?
  • @Waqui it's not worth any more of my time answering you. You have completely missed the point.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    f82bd wrote: »
    @Waqui it's not worth any more of my time answering you. You have completely missed the point.

    Don't worry. I got your point from the start. You blame your troubles on game design and request that the developers solve your problems for you. Its not the first time you do that. I got it.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    f82bd wrote: »
    @Waqui it's not worth any more of my time answering you. You have completely missed the point.

    Don't worry. I got your point from the start. You blame your troubles on game design and request that the developers solve your problems for you. Its not the first time you do that. I got it.

    I don't think you really got my point from the start. To reiterate, there's no blame or complaining here, just feedback. This is a feedback forum isn't it? I've only pointed out what's probably obvious to most. I actually have said some of the new changes are great. And I am looking forward to the developers' future changes that address some of what I've described. Like the moderator has also mentioned, related changes are probably coming.

    And like I said before regarding your posts, they do seem a bit aggressive, i.e., multiple, repeated and unending responses to somebody else's feedback.
  • Waqui
    7982 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    You should learn to distinguish between disagreement and aggression.

    My feedback was meant both for you and the game designers.
    Waqui wrote: »
    f82bd wrote: »
    @Waqui it's not worth any more of my time answering you. You have completely missed the point.

    Don't worry. I got your point from the start. You blame your troubles on game design and request that the developers solve your problems for you. Its not the first time you do that. I got it.

  • f82bd wrote: »
    aggressive, i.e., multiple, repeated and unending responses to somebody else's feedback.

  • I get your point and I totally agree with you, OP. The gear grind from IX to XII is pretty slow. There are lots of characters I'd love to use, but I can't gear them up fast enough to be usable.
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