We need new Metas!

Replies

  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    edited February 12
    I would much rather have new “content” (not just characters), reworks for example LS TB, new raids and stuff... Arena. Nope, it’s not bringing any new things to the table
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    I would much rather have new “content” (not just characters), reworks for example LS TB, new raids and stuff... Arena. Nope, it’s not bringing any new things to the table

    Good news there's an entire new game mode on the way.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    I would much rather have new “content” (not just characters), reworks for example LS TB, new raids and stuff... Arena. Nope, it’s not bringing any new things to the table

    Good news there's an entire new game mode on the way.

    True, and Im looking forward for it!
  • Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    While easily true with a diverse meta, once it’s the “have this team or lose” meta, the cooperation of the shard goes away in my anecdotal experience.

    Cooperation happens in shard chats and through truces with folks ingame contacting. In my experience how metas changed over the years didn't even effect whom shows up at the top daily...given they can grab the latest climbable meta. i.e. I had trouble when I missed jkr meta the first time and that's it. Otherwise it's the same drill all the time.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    While easily true with a diverse meta, once it’s the “have this team or lose” meta, the cooperation of the shard goes away in my anecdotal experience.

    Cooperation happens in shard chats and through truces with folks ingame contacting. In my experience how metas changed over the years didn't even effect whom shows up at the top daily...given they can grab the latest climbable meta. i.e. I had trouble when I missed jkr meta the first time and that's it. Otherwise it's the same drill all the time.

    So if you missed the meta, did you achieve in the same way? Were others swapping teams to help you out? If so, kudos to your shard.
  • Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    While easily true with a diverse meta, once it’s the “have this team or lose” meta, the cooperation of the shard goes away in my anecdotal experience.

    Cooperation happens in shard chats and through truces with folks ingame contacting. In my experience how metas changed over the years didn't even effect whom shows up at the top daily...given they can grab the latest climbable meta. i.e. I had trouble when I missed jkr meta the first time and that's it. Otherwise it's the same drill all the time.

    So if you missed the meta, did you achieve in the same way? Were others swapping teams to help you out? If so, kudos to your shard.

    I passed those periods investing in the meta breaker teams and given the long term arena income the troubled times was for short intervals. Yeah chat folks often help eachother with mod removal. Never asked for that and if there's a particular team at 1 I can't beat, I just settled with 2 or 3.

    Disclaimer: this might not be the case for people who managed to catch a meta but don't have the overall roster to jump for each meta transition. Consistent arena income is the thing that warrants further of it.
  • Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.
  • Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.
  • Konju wrote: »
    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.
    With @MaruMaru you're having one of the best forum people to discuss with, i always appreciate the talk with they.
    In my shard we're helping each other with switching teams, removing mods and even blocking snipers. It doesn't matter what teams you have or not have, if you're able to climb and you play by the rules everyone will respect your payout no matter what.
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • I’d welcome a new meta as well, even if I probably wouldn’t catch it first time around/as fast as many from my shard.
    I don’t think we will see one though.
    I have a feeling the current state of arena is fully intended by CG, as it is lowering net crystal payout.
    Most from my shard chat spend 50-150 crystals pr. day on refreshes as everyone are dropped so low overnight since top 250 all have at least one GL.
    If you are delayed in starting your climb, it’s either more spent on instant refresh or lower final placement as well.

    I think CG are trying to slowly close arena as a main crystal income.
  • Morgoth01 wrote: »
    I’d welcome a new meta as well, even if I probably wouldn’t catch it first time around/as fast as many from my shard.
    I don’t think we will see one though.
    I have a feeling the current state of arena is fully intended by CG, as it is lowering net crystal payout.
    Most from my shard chat spend 50-150 crystals pr. day on refreshes as everyone are dropped so low overnight since top 250 all have at least one GL.
    If you are delayed in starting your climb, it’s either more spent on instant refresh or lower final placement as well.

    I think CG are trying to slowly close arena as a main crystal income.

    They are probably going to make the new game mode (conquest it was called?) the main source of crystals.
    "To die for one's people is a great sacrifice. To live for one's people, an even greater sacrifice. I choose to live for my people. What do you choose?"
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    I’d welcome a new meta as well, even if I probably wouldn’t catch it first time around/as fast as many from my shard.
    I don’t think we will see one though.
    I have a feeling the current state of arena is fully intended by CG, as it is lowering net crystal payout.
    Most from my shard chat spend 50-150 crystals pr. day on refreshes as everyone are dropped so low overnight since top 250 all have at least one GL.
    If you are delayed in starting your climb, it’s either more spent on instant refresh or lower final placement as well.

    I think CG are trying to slowly close arena as a main crystal income.

    They are probably going to make the new game mode (conquest it was called?) the main source of crystals.

    This will not be a constant game mode, so this is not likely.

    From some side conversation we have had, I also dont get the feeling there is any plans to have conquest running 100% of the time in the future either.
  • If CG brought a new meta that dominated every team including GLs a lot of people would quit (including me). I’ve spent to much time farming up the current GLs just for some other toon to come and wipe out everything leaving me in the #200+ arena ranks.
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    I’d welcome a new meta as well, even if I probably wouldn’t catch it first time around/as fast as many from my shard.
    I don’t think we will see one though.
    I have a feeling the current state of arena is fully intended by CG, as it is lowering net crystal payout.
    Most from my shard chat spend 50-150 crystals pr. day on refreshes as everyone are dropped so low overnight since top 250 all have at least one GL.
    If you are delayed in starting your climb, it’s either more spent on instant refresh or lower final placement as well.

    I think CG are trying to slowly close arena as a main crystal income.

    They are probably going to make the new game mode (conquest it was called?) the main source of crystals.

    Probably huh?
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    13jkelly wrote: »
    If CG brought a new meta that dominated every team including GLs a lot of people would quit (including me). I’ve spent to much time farming up the current GLs just for some other toon to come and wipe out everything leaving me in the #200+ arena ranks.

    A lot of people quit over everything, I'm told.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    I’d welcome a new meta as well, even if I probably wouldn’t catch it first time around/as fast as many from my shard.
    I don’t think we will see one though.
    I have a feeling the current state of arena is fully intended by CG, as it is lowering net crystal payout.
    Most from my shard chat spend 50-150 crystals pr. day on refreshes as everyone are dropped so low overnight since top 250 all have at least one GL.
    If you are delayed in starting your climb, it’s either more spent on instant refresh or lower final placement as well.

    I think CG are trying to slowly close arena as a main crystal income.

    They are probably going to make the new game mode (conquest it was called?) the main source of crystals.

    This will not be a constant game mode, so this is not likely.

    From some side conversation we have had, I also dont get the feeling there is any plans to have conquest running 100% of the time in the future either.

    Interesting.
    "To die for one's people is a great sacrifice. To live for one's people, an even greater sacrifice. I choose to live for my people. What do you choose?"
  • Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    Yes I believe it’s just a difference of opinion and experience for this thread in general. I find it interesting. I like your take on it.
  • This was one of the better threads and discussions I've seen here in a while. I love the honesty of some and have to respect them for it. Good read so thanks all involved
  • TVF
    27500 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.

    So then you are just wanting a team that raises the ceiling a little higher to ease this issue. I'm seeing it in my shard as well but it's still relatively easy to climb having multiple GLs now thankfully. That's something I don't mind but I don't see how they can do it without making previous GLs obsolete in the process.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.

    So then you are just wanting a team that raises the ceiling a little higher to ease this issue. I'm seeing it in my shard as well but it's still relatively easy to climb having multiple GLs now thankfully. That's something I don't mind but I don't see how they can do it without making previous GLs obsolete in the process.

    This is generally why I see them leaving these 4 GLs as the top edge for a bit. I do expect things to shift and slide, but I dont expect a 'line in the sand' meta shift like we have seen previously.

    I dont expect them to leave arena alone or anything like that, but they do seem to be testing the idea that the drive to grab the new thing be based on the faction fest system we see in GCs and most likely Conquest (they seem to be based on the same build style)

    That being said we have seen armorer make SEE more of a powerhouse, which means we could see these kinds of 'side benefits' from getting the new stuff as they fill out the Mandalorian faction.

    If I had to choose, I would love to see more ships come first, and if that means a meta shift vs just more options, so be it.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.

    So then you are just wanting a team that raises the ceiling a little higher to ease this issue. I'm seeing it in my shard as well but it's still relatively easy to climb having multiple GLs now thankfully. That's something I don't mind but I don't see how they can do it without making previous GLs obsolete in the process.

    This is generally why I see them leaving these 4 GLs as the top edge for a bit. I do expect things to shift and slide, but I dont expect a 'line in the sand' meta shift like we have seen previously.

    I dont expect them to leave arena alone or anything like that, but they do seem to be testing the idea that the drive to grab the new thing be based on the faction fest system we see in GCs and most likely Conquest (they seem to be based on the same build style)

    That being said we have seen armorer make SEE more of a powerhouse, which means we could see these kinds of 'side benefits' from getting the new stuff as they fill out the Mandalorian faction.

    If I had to choose, I would love to see more ships come first, and if that means a meta shift vs just more options, so be it.

    Hey Kyno, I appreciate you can't make announcements or the like, but can you or Dojo give any indication of the dev's thinking around ships? I think a lot of people feel it's got a bit stale in terms of arena but has broader potential (i.e. a ships' raid).
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.

    So then you are just wanting a team that raises the ceiling a little higher to ease this issue. I'm seeing it in my shard as well but it's still relatively easy to climb having multiple GLs now thankfully. That's something I don't mind but I don't see how they can do it without making previous GLs obsolete in the process.

    This is generally why I see them leaving these 4 GLs as the top edge for a bit. I do expect things to shift and slide, but I dont expect a 'line in the sand' meta shift like we have seen previously.

    I dont expect them to leave arena alone or anything like that, but they do seem to be testing the idea that the drive to grab the new thing be based on the faction fest system we see in GCs and most likely Conquest (they seem to be based on the same build style)

    That being said we have seen armorer make SEE more of a powerhouse, which means we could see these kinds of 'side benefits' from getting the new stuff as they fill out the Mandalorian faction.

    If I had to choose, I would love to see more ships come first, and if that means a meta shift vs just more options, so be it.

    Hey Kyno, I appreciate you can't make announcements or the like, but can you or Dojo give any indication of the dev's thinking around ships? I think a lot of people feel it's got a bit stale in terms of arena but has broader potential (i.e. a ships' raid).

    ..... I can ask, but that is kind of the problem....

    They will not make an announcement about things that are not happening, and since we dont see much talk about ships, it seems like we will not be seeing much going on in that area at the moment.

    The only saving grace we have is that all the new modes do have the ability to include ships, so there is still a future there, but who knows if/when that will happen.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Konju wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Meanwhile I'd rather not spend two hours every day climbing thank you very much.
    And that's about it - you don't want to work for your top spots,

    Hahaha I got my roster and my resources to where they are with a ton of work. I earned my place in this resource management game. And while not skipping any other parts of the game by the way. Meanwhile right now anyone can climb to the top regardless of mods or effort. All it takes is having a few hours free consecutively every day. How is that earned?

    So another player investing the time and energy to have the GL counter to your defense set isn’t work? That other player showing up everyday for similar length of climb as you to their payout isn’t work? I certainly think both would qualify as earned.

    It's less work when arena is RPS, by far.

    While I do believe you personally put in more work staying ahead in meta terms, for many it’s a swipe of the card, a double click of a mouse button and a monetary transaction. Where is the work in that?

    There isn't any work in that. But it helps keep the game going. Necessary so that others can play for free.

    True. It does.

    I understand the frustration in climbing for longer amounts of time, but advocating for the whales, krakens & leviathans (most of them spending no matter what, keeping the game going for F2P no matter what) to have an “easy” button doesn’t exactly sound like a path earned either, which you agreed.

    It seems you are just out for TVF and that kind of selfishness has gotten you where you are. Hard to argue it’s not a successful strategy for you. Nothing wrong with it either.

    Simply put, I prefer looking for paths where all succeed and achieve. After all we are taking the rewards from CG so a cooperative effort to take as much as possible is always preferable to me. I’m the kind of guy who throws his last GAC match to allow my opponent to get to kyber if I’ve already achieved it (does not always happen). A diverse meta accomplishes this goal of taking more from CG better than the old metas: unlock “X” paywall (or severe hoard wall) and win.

    Thanks for the discussion. We simply disagree and I can appreciate that.

    This is already the case given shard folks cooperate and isn't much dependant on metas.

    Then what would a new “meta” matter other than cleaning the board from ftps?

    For me that's exactly the case. It shakes of temporary climbers from previous meta and nothing more. Arena chats are mostly made of f2p too and early meta transition period is somewhat troubling for f2p. But given they've been arena top 20er for long periods this won't disconnect them.

    i.e. right now my day 1 arena toppers are in 6m-7.5m range. The people that will fall off the wagon is the recent f2p/low spender that shows at the top because they managed to grab jml but don't have the roster backbone to shortly grab the next one (and be ready for any such situation).

    Both of these statements imply to me you would prefer less cooperation. I get your use of “temporary climbers” here but have you considered the possibility that their rosters are at a lower level from only being able to be temporary climbers due to quick meta changes with extreme requirements in many cases? If allowed to be in the top for longer than a month or two they might achieve some level of roster preparedness to continue the climbing and become “permanent” climbers? Surely this is not the case for everyone, but I bet it could be for some of the temporary climbers.

    Maybe I’m just naive, because for 50 crystals (maybe 0 crystals) I can still take 1st everyday in a 3 year old shard with the diverse meta (my PO is 4th this week). I prefer seeing cooperation for those top spots and not just the same person sitting in 3rd all day wasting the crystal payout available as I saw in the singular metas. A diverse meta helps to ensure more can climb and earn more rewards overall. My shard still has room for more 2nd and 3rd place finishes throughout the time range of payouts as well. I am absolutely discussing this issue from that experience and desire. Even though it can be inconvenient climbing sometimes, I still prefer the diversity so more players can compete and improve/git gud.

    While we disagree, I believe differences of opinion should be explored. Thanks for the discussion.

    I didn't say or imply anything about my preferences. I'm just describing the situation in my experience. I haven't seen much difference in whom climbs and how many gets high crystal po's in the current paper rock scissors meta or singular metas of the past. I'm not the one making people capable of persistance throughout the metas whether they pay or are f2p. In both my shard chats, if people who get climbing capability communicate with us and are accepted, they get in. The competetive level is not like it used to be in the first 2 years of the game. This might differ in other shards.

    The thing is there's an amount of people, let's say 50 that can healthily climb around eachother, if there's too many the traffic will get clogged and everyone will have harder time climbing with more matches/time invested. As long as this doesn't happen, it's all fine. Now you can disagree if you find my preference different than yours.

    All of this is very similar to my arena chat. Your assessment of a healthy shard chat can vary, but is also very reasonable.

    I would only say that I am seeing more and newer players in the top 50 & top 20. And some are consistent. These are the players I’m looking to support. If the meta never switched to RPS, these people would miss out on the progression available to them from a diverse meta, hence my reading into what your previous statements implied. A singular meta just rewards P2W and hoarders imo and overall fewer players can climb. I’m looking to take a larger collective chunk of rewards from the game for more players.

    While I may lose out on some crystals through refreshes in a RPS meta and increased length of climb, more players are reaching higher payouts. More players climbing hasn’t drastically impacted my ability to earn decent rewards toward progression. I’m happy for a F2P friendly arena vs the hoard and P2W singular metas.

    Again, I appreciate the perspective differences and gain much from those who have played longer than myself.

    I prefer variable metas as well, like I said I just didn't observe the practical difference. Like right now isn't that much different in top 20 then it used to last 2 years. This might be very different for lower quarters for folks who are trying to get up here.

    You must be in a sleepy shard then. We have all sorts of new people and people long not seen popping up again because you don't need good mods or the right team anymore.

    So then you are just wanting a team that raises the ceiling a little higher to ease this issue. I'm seeing it in my shard as well but it's still relatively easy to climb having multiple GLs now thankfully. That's something I don't mind but I don't see how they can do it without making previous GLs obsolete in the process.

    This is generally why I see them leaving these 4 GLs as the top edge for a bit. I do expect things to shift and slide, but I dont expect a 'line in the sand' meta shift like we have seen previously.

    I dont expect them to leave arena alone or anything like that, but they do seem to be testing the idea that the drive to grab the new thing be based on the faction fest system we see in GCs and most likely Conquest (they seem to be based on the same build style)

    That being said we have seen armorer make SEE more of a powerhouse, which means we could see these kinds of 'side benefits' from getting the new stuff as they fill out the Mandalorian faction.

    If I had to choose, I would love to see more ships come first, and if that means a meta shift vs just more options, so be it.

    Hey Kyno, I appreciate you can't make announcements or the like, but can you or Dojo give any indication of the dev's thinking around ships? I think a lot of people feel it's got a bit stale in terms of arena but has broader potential (i.e. a ships' raid).

    ..... I can ask, but that is kind of the problem....

    They will not make an announcement about things that are not happening, and since we dont see much talk about ships, it seems like we will not be seeing much going on in that area at the moment.

    The only saving grace we have is that all the new modes do have the ability to include ships, so there is still a future there, but who knows if/when that will happen.

    Ok, thank you. 👍
  • AlexanderG wrote: »

    I think a lot of people feel it's got a bit stale in terms of arena but has broader potential (i.e. a ships' raid).

    I'm one of those people. I cannot field 8 fleets, the second to last fleet has one ship besides the cap if you don't underdog with previous fleets, and you can't even run an eighth fleet. Think Territory War and that back wall.
    Others have asked for a FO tank, count me a +1 for that.
    Officer in Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya, Wat & Negotiator on farm. PM to join us.
  • On ships, while I understand it is not a priority for CG, they should atleast close the loop on existing fleets by adding 1-2 ships each for factions like resistance and first order. @Kyno

    Also, while I understand they are working on a new game mode, there has been no real game update since past 20+ days.
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