Conquest Consumables question

Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?

Replies

  • I would assume like energy it's use it and lose it.
  • Will massive damage from the Massively Overpowered data disk still be at 99,999 or will it update to a higher number as the characters have grown considerably over time.
  • Nauros
    4063 posts Member
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Will massive damage from the Massively Overpowered data disk still be at 99,999 or will it update to a higher number as the characters have grown considerably over time.

    AFAIK, massive damage is 99,999 in all instances and there seems to be no intention to change it. That's why Rey does massive damage three times.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • This is exciting, typically when you don’t finish it’s because you lost stamina.
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.
  • Ultra
    7309 posts Member
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    How is it RNG?

    1. You are losing out on energy.
    2. We do not know if stamina after the battle is dependent on health/protection of our units after the battle
    3. Enemy units are scaled with relic tiers, and data disks in mind, so they are pretty strong, so losing stamina might be too much difficult on top of how difficult it already is
    4. Stamina refresh rate might be very slow, and you might accumulate energy faster without having the right toons to attempt the node so you are stuck not being able to use up your energy
    5. Developers are aware that you won't lose stamina for losing, so the game design has that particular feature in mind when designing combat nodes, Its possible that they received a lot of negative feedback from beta testers about stamina being used up even if you lose, not as fun for players with not a lot of roster depth etc

  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    How is it RNG?

    1. You are losing out on energy.
    2. We do not know if stamina after the battle is dependent on health/protection of our units after the battle
    3. Enemy units are scaled with relic tiers, and data disks in mind, so they are pretty strong, so losing stamina might be too much difficult on top of how difficult it already is
    4. Stamina refresh rate might be very slow, and you might accumulate energy faster without having the right toons to attempt the node so you are stuck not being able to use up your energy
    5. Developers are aware that you won't lose stamina for losing, so the game design has that particular feature in mind when designing combat nodes, Its possible that they received a lot of negative feedback from beta testers about stamina being used up even if you lose, not as fun for players with not a lot of roster depth etc

    I agree, replay for RNG is not going to be a "winning strategy". Energy is one of the keys to maxing things out. Having to finish feats to max rewards. Slow refresh rate. You want to be as efficient as possible with energy.

    Answer:
    2. It is a static value removed after each battle you win.
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Lovely, thank you for the clarification:)
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    This sounds so...anti CG like..
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    This is like the silliest complaint I have ever heard all these years, and this is coming from me lol. How is this bad, it's like saying hey did you mess up the fight? Here do it again without any penalties. Or is this battle too easy for ur team or too difficult? Simply back out and use something else and keep that team at full strength

    No, it's a valid point Bulldog raises. It's all/mostly about psychology.
    Imagine you stand before at node with a really difficult team, think Secrets Shadow hard with high RNG factor.You have 2 top teams left, one that can beat it easily, but then you get low on stamina, and a team that might win 1 out of 20 battles. With this implementation, using the weak team is valid strategy. But it will be a pain - and players like me will do it.
    I will prefer events tuned for something else - or very low RNG at least.
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    This is like the silliest complaint I have ever heard all these years, and this is coming from me lol. How is this bad, it's like saying hey did you mess up the fight? Here do it again without any penalties. Or is this battle too easy for ur team or too difficult? Simply back out and use something else and keep that team at full strength

    No, it's a valid point Bulldog raises. It's all/mostly about psychology.
    Imagine you stand before at node with a really difficult team, think Secrets Shadow hard with high RNG factor.You have 2 top teams left, one that can beat it easily, but then you get low on stamina, and a team that might win 1 out of 20 battles. With this implementation, using the weak team is valid strategy. But it will be a pain - and players like me will do it.
    I will prefer events tuned for something else - or very low RNG at least.

    I could be wrong here, but isn't there both energy and stamina to consider?
    So you would loose energy if you attempt a battle unsuccesfully, but you wouldn't loose the boost from consumables and the toons wouldn't loose stamina?
    If my understanding here is correct, it is quite detrimental to go the "brute force vs. rng" route, as you would quickly be constrained by energy, rather than stamina.
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    This is like the silliest complaint I have ever heard all these years, and this is coming from me lol. How is this bad, it's like saying hey did you mess up the fight? Here do it again without any penalties. Or is this battle too easy for ur team or too difficult? Simply back out and use something else and keep that team at full strength

    No, it's a valid point Bulldog raises. It's all/mostly about psychology.
    Imagine you stand before at node with a really difficult team, think Secrets Shadow hard with high RNG factor.You have 2 top teams left, one that can beat it easily, but then you get low on stamina, and a team that might win 1 out of 20 battles. With this implementation, using the weak team is valid strategy. But it will be a pain - and players like me will do it.
    I will prefer events tuned for something else - or very low RNG at least.

    They are 7 battles and a boss battle, if you don't have enough teams for each phase then idk what you do in ur GAC.
    If you are down to just 2 teams, it means you got 90% of ur units wiped out, then that right there becomes an strategy problem, not a refresh problem, would you rather have ur team take damage and lose stamina on a battle that you are losing? Or simply back out and go back in without any penalty.

    This is literally complaining for the sake of complaining

    It's not complaining just for the sake of complaining, because this was actually a reason I originally complimented CG on the Galactic Legend ticket systrm that everyone hates. I loved how the ticket system forced CG to make the battles repeatable with the right strategy, unlike the GAS event or some of the GCs or countless others that are an RNG nightmare even if you meet or exceeded the recommendations (although I do wish there was a better way to find that strategy by practicing for free, but thats for another discussion).

    And yes, there is a lot of information we don't know or understand yet, and maybe this won't be the case. That's a valid point. But that applies to anyone complimenting the system just as much as it does criticizing it. We discuss our thoughts on the info we have atm, and most of us will end up changing our thoughts to some degree once we actually play it.
  • I think people are confusing stamina and energy (if I’m reading right). I think energy still gets depleted, but stamina, which affects characters stats, doesn’t get depleted on a loss. If I’m wrong and you don’t lose energy either then that’s just silly. And if I’m reading it wrong completely, then just ignore me.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    Kard_1986 wrote: »
    I think people are confusing stamina and energy (if I’m reading right). I think energy still gets depleted, but stamina, which affects characters stats, doesn’t get depleted on a loss. If I’m wrong and you don’t lose energy either then that’s just silly. And if I’m reading it wrong completely, then just ignore me.

    You are correct.

    Energy is used like all energy, once you enter a battle its lost.

    Stamina is only taken after a win.

    The general idea seems to be stamina drives difficulty on the win count. Cant use the same team repeatedly, need to have a wide roster and good counters, with flexibility. And development will allow you to go further each time.

    Energy is designed to make feats more "difficult" and push refreshes if you want to try for RNG, making that a costly plan to try and win. Basically driving a cost to max out everything in the event. With still allowing for progress without investment, and development will make gaining stars on battles easier , saving energy for feats as you complete more nodes at 3*.
  • Ultra
    7309 posts Member
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Morgoth01 wrote: »
    Just checking, but the consumables which last 2-4 battles, is that going to last for 2-4 battle attempts or 2-4 completed battles?

    I.e. if we consume a consumable to test out if that will allow for team X to succeed, how much of a risk factor would that be?
    The consumables are only used on completing a battle with a win. Losses do not run down the battle counter for consumables. Similar with Stamina, its only depleted if you win.

    Woah so if we dont win the match we don't lose stamina just energy, cool

    I don't like this. This means playing RNG until you get the result you want becomes an optimal strategy, and that makes me want to bang my head against the wall. When losses are impactful, the game design has to reflect that.

    This is like the silliest complaint I have ever heard all these years, and this is coming from me lol. How is this bad, it's like saying hey did you mess up the fight? Here do it again without any penalties. Or is this battle too easy for ur team or too difficult? Simply back out and use something else and keep that team at full strength

    No, it's a valid point Bulldog raises. It's all/mostly about psychology.
    Imagine you stand before at node with a really difficult team, think Secrets Shadow hard with high RNG factor.You have 2 top teams left, one that can beat it easily, but then you get low on stamina, and a team that might win 1 out of 20 battles. With this implementation, using the weak team is valid strategy. But it will be a pain - and players like me will do it.
    I will prefer events tuned for something else - or very low RNG at least.

    1 out of 20 battles means it will cost you 16*20 = 320 energy to get that win

    You'll not end up progressing far in conquest if you keep retrying the same combat node for days
  • Kard_1986 wrote: »
    I think people are confusing stamina and energy (if I’m reading right). I think energy still gets depleted, but stamina, which affects characters stats, doesn’t get depleted on a loss. If I’m wrong and you don’t lose energy either then that’s just silly. And if I’m reading it wrong completely, then just ignore me.

    Not confusing the two, but maybe misunderstanding the value of everything. I'm assuming things bought from the new shop will have extremely high value, as it will compete with other things exclusive to that store (new ships/char?), with no other way to purchase them. I'm viewing energy as relatively cheap to refresh with crystals, as that's how all the other energy in the game is. So yeah, I'm making a lot of assumptions, but that's why I view things like stamina and consumables as extremely valuable but not so much with energy.
  • Kyno
    28358 posts Moderator
    edited February 25
    Kard_1986 wrote: »
    I think people are confusing stamina and energy (if I’m reading right). I think energy still gets depleted, but stamina, which affects characters stats, doesn’t get depleted on a loss. If I’m wrong and you don’t lose energy either then that’s just silly. And if I’m reading it wrong completely, then just ignore me.

    Not confusing the two, but maybe misunderstanding the value of everything. I'm assuming things bought from the new shop will have extremely high value, as it will compete with other things exclusive to that store (new ships/char?), with no other way to purchase them. I'm viewing energy as relatively cheap to refresh with crystals, as that's how all the other energy in the game is. So yeah, I'm making a lot of assumptions, but that's why I view things like stamina and consumables as extremely valuable but not so much with energy.

    I see your point, but would question how many players see adding another 50 crystal (or whatever the cost ends up being) to their daily routine as cheap. We do have what looks like many opportunities for rewards in this mode, between sectors and the end of event, and then whatever is awarded as intermediaries..... but unlike normal energy farming some of those will be prize boxes.

    This seems like a game mode where the path each player takes will be very personal for much of the reasons you listed above.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • Kurizir
    7 posts Member
    edited February 25
    The GL ticket system is awful. I enjoyed events like the Malak event where it did came down to strategy and then execution. Yes it was an RNG fest but felt rewarding getting it done. I wasn’t punched in the face for simply attempting it. Then forced to farm for days before having another go at it. Instead of trying to figure it out on my own and enjoying the event itself. I instead chase down a YouTuber video because the thought of losing tickets again is anxiety inducing. Doesn’t make the game fun at all.

    The GL event is an abusive system, farming tickets for days only to have Vader one shot you in 15 seconds. I can’t imagine what someone who doesn’t chase down YouTuber videos would feel like when they see 60 tickets get flushed down the toilet in a matter of seconds just for trying the event. Sorry but that GL ticket system can get tossed in the trash bin.

    Without having hands on time with the mode, the strategy of this game mode will hopefully be how you deploy your team efficiently across the map. If you’re not efficient then it’ll cost you resources. You may burn a team on a few early nodes when they would have been better suited further down the track.

    Regardless, there was nothing to like about the GL ticket/shard system.
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