Galactic Power is a broken way to run the matchmaking

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Stenun
765 posts Member
Galactic Power is not a fit way to match make guilds for the Territory War - it's an outdated system that doesn't take into account the extreme strength of GLs relative to their GP or even make allowances for Relics.

For example ...
My Baze Malbus is 6*, g8, 3 A Mods, 3 C Mods; his GP is 11,373. My GL Rey has a GP of 49,743.
According to match-making purely based on GP, five copies of my Baze Malbus is a greater asset than my GL Rey.
Now imagine if one guild had no copies of Malbus and 10 copies of my GL Rey and another guild had no GL Reys but 50 copies of my Malbus.
All other things being equal, the GP values would match and they would be considered a good match for each other.

Does anyone REALLY believe that would be a fair fight?

Galactic Power is not enough for matchmaking anymore, it needs updating to take into account the new mechanics in the game.

Replies

  • Gifafi
    5417 posts Member
    50 bazes can beat one rey, if we want to continue that anaLOLgy
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    50 bazes can beat one rey, if we want to continue that anaLOLgy

    I didn't compare 50 Bazes to one Rey.
    I asked if 50 six star g8 Bazes were as powerful as 10 fully upgraded GL Reys?
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Galactic Power is not a fit way to match make guilds for the Territory War - it's an outdated system that doesn't take into account the extreme strength of GLs relative to their GP or even make allowances for Relics.

    For example ...
    My Baze Malbus is 6*, g8, 3 A Mods, 3 C Mods; his GP is 11,373. My GL Rey has a GP of 49,743.
    According to match-making purely based on GP, five copies of my Baze Malbus is a greater asset than my GL Rey.
    Now imagine if one guild had no copies of Malbus and 10 copies of my GL Rey and another guild had no GL Reys but 50 copies of my Malbus.
    All other things being equal, the GP values would match and they would be considered a good match for each other.

    Does anyone REALLY believe that would be a fair fight?

    Galactic Power is not enough for matchmaking anymore, it needs updating to take into account the new mechanics in the game.

    If a guild has 10 GLs of any type, they are also carrying 10x the GP of the required toons for that GL. That is part of the balance, and not all the required toons are really useful.
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    If a guild has 10 GLs of any type, they are also carrying 10x the GP of the required toons for that GL. That is part of the balance, and not all the required toons are really useful.

    I did specify "all other things being equal". So both guilds have all the required toons but one guild just haven't unlocked their GLs yet.

    The point is that GP is not an accurate way of comparing the worth and strength of characters to each other and thus when that imbalance is amplified across 50 players v 50 players, it gets even worse.

    Either GP needs a massive overhaul to be more accurate for comparing each character or the matchmaking system needs to take more into account than just GP.
    It simply doesn't work as is.
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If a guild has 10 GLs of any type, they are also carrying 10x the GP of the required toons for that GL. That is part of the balance, and not all the required toons are really useful.

    I did specify "all other things being equal". So both guilds have all the required toons but one guild just haven't unlocked their GLs yet.

    ...

    That is a bad tactic by the team without the GLs. Developing your roster in a poor fashion will have consequences, but it's also something any player can develop through.

    Making a very specific situation to have matchmaking seem worse than it is (in this particular circumstance) doesnt really portray the whole picture.
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If a guild has 10 GLs of any type, they are also carrying 10x the GP of the required toons for that GL. That is part of the balance, and not all the required toons are really useful.

    I did specify "all other things being equal". So both guilds have all the required toons but one guild just haven't unlocked their GLs yet.

    ...

    That is a bad tactic by the team without the GLs. Developing your roster in a poor fashion will have consequences, but it's also something any player can develop through.

    Making a very specific situation to have matchmaking seem worse than it is (in this particular circumstance) doesnt really portray the whole picture.

    I know it's a bad tactic, it's an analogy.
    All analogies fall down if you put them under too much scrutiny. Even saying something like "this guy is as good an actor as Humphrey Bogart" falls down when someone points out that Bogart is dead and therefore his acting range is somewhat limited now.
    The point of an analogy is not a literal exact comparison.
    So I think focusing solely on the specifics of my analogy without addressing the wider issues it was illustrating is rather a waste of both our times.
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If a guild has 10 GLs of any type, they are also carrying 10x the GP of the required toons for that GL. That is part of the balance, and not all the required toons are really useful.

    ..

    The point is that GP is not an accurate way of comparing the worth and strength of characters to each other and thus when that imbalance is amplified across 50 players v 50 players, it gets even worse.

    Either GP needs a massive overhaul to be more accurate for comparing each character or the matchmaking system needs to take more into account than just GP.
    It simply doesn't work as is.

    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster (gear, abilities, which toons picked, ext.) This allows players to make choices on where they put the resources they have and have the choices they made shine though.

    It actually works quite well for how simple of a system it is. But there are other issues, GP is not really one of them.
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster

    But it doesn't work for that, either.
    All it takes is two equal players opening a Chormium Mega-Pack and one player getting a brand new character neither of them previously had and the other player getting a duplicate.
    Suddenly, the first player has more GP despite them both having invested the same in their rosters.

    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.

  • Waqui
    8211 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    For example ...
    My Baze Malbus is 6*, g8, 3 A Mods, 3 C Mods; his GP is 11,373. My GL Rey has a GP of 49,743.
    According to match-making purely based on GP, five copies of my Baze Malbus is a greater asset than my GL Rey.
    Now imagine if one guild had no copies of Malbus and 10 copies of my GL Rey and another guild had no GL Reys but 50 copies of my Malbus.
    All other things being equal, the GP values would match and they would be considered a good match for each other.

    Does anyone REALLY believe that would be a fair fight?

    Even fight? No. Fair fight? Yes. One guild built stronger rosters than the other and earned their advantage.

  • Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster

    But it doesn't work for that, either.
    All it takes is two equal players opening a Chormium Mega-Pack and one player getting a brand new character neither of them previously had and the other player getting a duplicate.
    Suddenly, the first player has more GP despite them both having invested the same in their rosters.

    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.

    This argument is old and tired, much like myself.

    GLs come with the baggage of an additional 250k GP from gearing / relicing the required toons. Plus the ~50k GP from the GL themselves.

    The sooner people who are matched with a GL imbalance acknowledge that they must have made up the associated ~300k GP from somewhere else in their roster, the sooner they can build their roster smarter.
  • Gifafi
    5417 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    50 bazes can beat one rey, if we want to continue that anaLOLgy

    I didn't compare 50 Bazes to one Rey.
    I asked if 50 six star g8 Bazes were as powerful as 10 fully upgraded GL Reys?

    yeah, I already said it was a bad analogy
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    "All other things being equal" ... it's right there in the OP.

    Never mind. I don't know why I expected this conversation to go any differently.
  • CCyrilS
    5274 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    "All other things being equal" ... it's right there in the OP.

    Never mind. I don't know why I expected this conversation to go any differently.

    Because all other things can't be equal in this situation. If a guild has made the mistake of gearing up things other than GLs, then the balance is still there, just not in your favor. You can't lack GLs AND have everything else be equal.
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    "All other things being equal" ... it's right there in the OP.

    Never mind. I don't know why I expected this conversation to go any differently.

    Because all other things can't be equal in this situation. If a guild has made the mistake of gearing up things other than GLs, then the balance is still there, just not in your favor. You can't lack GLs AND have everything else be equal.

    The balance is NOT there because GP isn't balanced.

    That's my whole point.

    You can't say "well if this grossly powerful thing scored the same as this weak thing then the balance is still there".
    Just because they score the same does NOT mean they are balanced.

    That's my whole point.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    "All other things being equal" ... it's right there in the OP.

    Never mind. I don't know why I expected this conversation to go any differently.
    Because you’ve invented a borderline ridiculous set of circumstances with which to make your point.

    If we take one toon and compare it with one other toon (or 5 copies of that toon), the comparison is meaningless.

    - The investment required for someone to own Rey at ~50k GP absolutely dwarfs the investment for 5 copies of 6* g8 Baze.
    - GAC matchmaking takes into account the top X toons. Not 1 toon versus multiple copies of the same toon
    - TW matchmaking doesn’t do that, but again, if a guild is capable of being matched with a guild who own 50 Reys when they themselves don’t have any, they are responsible for that.
  • CCyrilS
    5274 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    "All other things being equal" ... it's right there in the OP.

    Never mind. I don't know why I expected this conversation to go any differently.

    Because all other things can't be equal in this situation. If a guild has made the mistake of gearing up things other than GLs, then the balance is still there, just not in your favor. You can't lack GLs AND have everything else be equal.

    The balance is NOT there because GP isn't balanced.

    That's my whole point.

    You can't say "well if this grossly powerful thing scored the same as this weak thing then the balance is still there".
    Just because they score the same does NOT mean they are balanced.

    That's my whole point.

    Your idea of balanced is wrong. It doesn't mean equal in usefulness. The idea is not to match so that everyone has a 50/50 chance of winning everytime. The idea is to match so that the better guild wins.
  • Gifafi
    5417 posts Member
    maybe the matchmaking should take into account mods too. And player ability and knowledge.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • CCyrilS
    5274 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    maybe the matchmaking should take into account mods too. And player ability and knowledge.

    Even better, AI could control both sides and ensure a tie everytime.
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster

    But it doesn't work for that, either.
    All it takes is two equal players opening a Chormium Mega-Pack and one player getting a brand new character neither of them previously had and the other player getting a duplicate.
    Suddenly, the first player has more GP despite them both having invested the same in their rosters.

    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.

    All things being equal can you tell me which toon at 4* from the chromium pack will make it impossible for the other person to win.
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster



    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.

    G8 is equal to g8 in terms of GP.

    GP is not a measure of power, it's a measure of which toons a player has invested in up to a certain gear level, abilities, and everything else.

    Which toons a player invests in and how far they invest into them is "the secret sauce " that makes a roster good or bad in a certain game mode, even though the players may have roughly invested the same amount of stuff.

    This type of blind system when used in matching players is like having a cooking show where each person is given the same amount of money to make a meal from the same selection at the same store. Some people will make better choices than others.

    No one is trying to say one character at max is equal to another at max, and some characters have different max GP too.

    All of this together is what makes this kind of blund system fair, we are all subject to the same rules and can make the choices we want to work with.
  • CCyrilS
    5274 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster



    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.


    This type of blind system when used in matching players is like having a cooking show where each person is given the same amount of money to make a meal from the same selection at the same store. Some people will make better choices than others.

    Are you saying $20 of spam isn't equal to $20 of top sirloin?
  • CCyrilS wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    It is not meant to be a representation of the power of a toon. Its meant to be a representation of how much someone has invested in thier roster



    So no, GP doesn't even give that much of an accurate depiction of investment.


    This type of blind system when used in matching players is like having a cooking show where each person is given the same amount of money to make a meal from the same selection at the same store. Some people will make better choices than others.

    Are you saying $20 of spam isn't equal to $20 of top sirloin?
    @Kyno this post made it past the spam filter...
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    I'm saying that GP is not an accurate way of comparing "Like v Like" no matter how we look at the definition of "Like" in that context - whatever you want to say GP is used for, it doesn't do that use well.
    And using it for matchmaking is a joke and results in hideously unfair matches every iteration of the Territory War. And if you are really unlucky, your guild will get hit with that bad luck more than others.
    And I strongly suspect that everyone posting in this thread telling me how wrong I am and how great GP is as a matchmaking tool has never had the misfortune to be in such a position.

    "It doesn't happen to me so I will ignore, dismiss and argue with all the people saying it happens to them", right?
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    I'm saying that GP is not an accurate way of comparing "Like v Like" no matter how we look at the definition of "Like" in that context - whatever you want to say GP is used for, it doesn't do that use well.
    And using it for matchmaking is a joke and results in hideously unfair matches every iteration of the Territory War. And if you are really unlucky, your guild will get hit with that bad luck more than others.
    And I strongly suspect that everyone posting in this thread telling me how wrong I am and how great GP is as a matchmaking tool has never had the misfortune to be in such a position.

    "It doesn't happen to me so I will ignore, dismiss and argue with all the people saying it happens to them", right?

    It allows players choices on where they invested resources to shine through. What you keep pointing to are not realistic situations to make this part of match making seem worse than it actually is.

    Many people have bad matches, but not due to this. More often than not, it's due to how they build their roster.

    Do you have any real examples of GP measure making an issue you would like to discuss, that dont involve multiples of the same character, chromium luck on a single toon, or a scenario where the entire guild made the same bad choice and carried a lot of bloat into a match?

    We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

    I see four problems with this argument:

    1) It was not implemented right from the start of the game's life and indeed characters we were actively encouraged to farm years ago, we are now actively encouraged NOT to farm as they would hurt us in matchmaking. The Jawas are a very good example of this. Ages ago, the Mod Challenges were faction locked - you had to have certain factions geared up to fight in each Mod Challenge set and the Speed Mods required Jawas. So I spent ages farming up my Jawas so I could complete the top Tier of the Speed Mods Challenge and I did it. And then the faction requirement was removed and my Jawas have never seen use again and now they are a liability in inflating my score for matchmaking.
    Because these rules have NOT been there from the start, there are hundreds of guilds, thousands of players, who are in the same boat. So while I was a good little soldier years ago and farmed my Jawas because the game told me to do so, I am now being penalised for it by having it count against me.
    So "we all followed the same rules" is not true - not every player followed the rules to farm their Jawas because the rules keep changing.
    And it's not just Jawas, there are loads of characters we all farmed in the early days because they were the best ones to get who are now no longer worth it and inflate our GP. The power creep of new characters is an inevitable consequence of the game's longevity but it does mean that the GP we all generated years ago is now not worth the GP we are getting today.
    So no, we have NOT all followed the same rules.

    2) "The better strategist should win" is only valid if matching based on GP was a fair indication of a player's/guiild's strategy. But it's not.
    For example, Sandbagging is a major problem and it only works because the matchmaking is done based on the GP of the players who sign up.

    3) Your argument, if implemented by all, would stop everyone from participating in Marquee events or indeed any event or action that unlocks a new character we are not instantly ready to get to relic level. All new characters we unlock at 3 stars slowly inflates our GP and slowly, cumulatviely, over time, across the guild, this punishes us. Or are you seriously going to claim it's good strategy to not unlock new characters until you have the gear to get them immediately to g13?

    4) This is supposed to be a Star Wars game. We play for the Star Wars characters. And now suddenly I'm going to be penalised because I want Princess Leia in my collection? Sure, I accept she's not the best character in the game but she's Princess flipping Leia and this is Star Wars. Your argument would have everyone avoiding the Star Wars nature of the game and only going for the elite characters regardless of who they are. Enfys Nest is a much better character in game than Princess Leia but I refuse to accept an argument that says in a Star Wars game you should farm Enfys Nest to g7 but don't unlock Princess Leia. That's just daft.
  • Kyno
    29106 posts Moderator
    Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

    I see four problems with this argument:

    1) It was not implemented right from the start of the game's life and indeed characters we were actively encouraged to farm years ago, we are now actively encouraged NOT to farm as they would hurt us in matchmaking. The Jawas are a very good example of this. Ages ago, the Mod Challenges were faction locked - you had to have certain factions geared up to fight in each Mod Challenge set and the Speed Mods required Jawas. So I spent ages farming up my Jawas so I could complete the top Tier of the Speed Mods Challenge and I did it. And then the faction requirement was removed and my Jawas have never seen use again and now they are a liability in inflating my score for matchmaking.
    Because these rules have NOT been there from the start, there are hundreds of guilds, thousands of players, who are in the same boat. So while I was a good little soldier years ago and farmed my Jawas because the game told me to do so, I am now being penalised for it by having it count against me.
    So "we all followed the same rules" is not true - not every player followed the rules to farm their Jawas because the rules keep changing.
    And it's not just Jawas, there are loads of characters we all farmed in the early days because they were the best ones to get who are now no longer worth it and inflate our GP. The power creep of new characters is an inevitable consequence of the game's longevity but it does mean that the GP we all generated years ago is now not worth the GP we are getting today.
    So no, we have NOT all followed the same rules.

    2) "The better strategist should win" is only valid if matching based on GP was a fair indication of a player's/guiild's strategy. But it's not.
    For example, Sandbagging is a major problem and it only works because the matchmaking is done based on the GP of the players who sign up.

    3) Your argument, if implemented by all, would stop everyone from participating in Marquee events or indeed any event or action that unlocks a new character we are not instantly ready to get to relic level. All new characters we unlock at 3 stars slowly inflates our GP and slowly, cumulatviely, over time, across the guild, this punishes us. Or are you seriously going to claim it's good strategy to not unlock new characters until you have the gear to get them immediately to g13?

    4) This is supposed to be a Star Wars game. We play for the Star Wars characters. And now suddenly I'm going to be penalised because I want Princess Leia in my collection? Sure, I accept she's not the best character in the game but she's Princess flipping Leia and this is Star Wars. Your argument would have everyone avoiding the Star Wars nature of the game and only going for the elite characters regardless of who they are. Enfys Nest is a much better character in game than Princess Leia but I refuse to accept an argument that says in a Star Wars game you should farm Enfys Nest to g7 but don't unlock Princess Leia. That's just daft.

    1) yes we do follow the same rules the rules for TW have been here as long as the game mode has. TW has been around long enough for any player to develop past "their mistakes" or find a way to use them, and changing the GP calculation doesn't change any of this.

    2) mismatches based on number of players in a guild is an issue, and that has nothing to do with GP calculation of a character.

    3)it would only stop people who misunderstand what GP is and how much variance there is in the matchmaking process and how little a marquee effects that. but again, if a guild wants to implement a strategy of not unlocking those characters to reduce the small amount of GP a unleveled and ungeared toon adds, sure why not. I can assure you that that decision would have less effect on their record than a farming guide based on their map strategy. Moving forward is always the best strategy, make the plan, work the plan, and try to use anything at your disposal.

    4)no you are not being penalized for making a decision about what you want. but every choice has both an up side and a down side. a collector, a PVP player, and a PvE player are all going to have different rosters that play each game mode differently, the balance each player finds is on them and based on how they feel and want to play the game. the game is not going to cater to make anyone better in a game mode they are not trying to be better in on their own.

    you are playing a game about a game, in a cantina, in the star wars universe. it doesn't really follow lore, or a story line based on the movies, books, or shows.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

    I see four problems with this argument:

    1) It was not implemented right from the start of the game's life and indeed characters we were actively encouraged to farm years ago, we are now actively encouraged NOT to farm as they would hurt us in matchmaking. The Jawas are a very good example of this. Ages ago, the Mod Challenges were faction locked - you had to have certain factions geared up to fight in each Mod Challenge set and the Speed Mods required Jawas. So I spent ages farming up my Jawas so I could complete the top Tier of the Speed Mods Challenge and I did it. And then the faction requirement was removed and my Jawas have never seen use again and now they are a liability in inflating my score for matchmaking.
    Because these rules have NOT been there from the start, there are hundreds of guilds, thousands of players, who are in the same boat. So while I was a good little soldier years ago and farmed my Jawas because the game told me to do so, I am now being penalised for it by having it count against me.
    So "we all followed the same rules" is not true - not every player followed the rules to farm their Jawas because the rules keep changing.
    And it's not just Jawas, there are loads of characters we all farmed in the early days because they were the best ones to get who are now no longer worth it and inflate our GP. The power creep of new characters is an inevitable consequence of the game's longevity but it does mean that the GP we all generated years ago is now not worth the GP we are getting today.
    So no, we have NOT all followed the same rules.

    2) "The better strategist should win" is only valid if matching based on GP was a fair indication of a player's/guiild's strategy. But it's not.
    For example, Sandbagging is a major problem and it only works because the matchmaking is done based on the GP of the players who sign up.

    3) Your argument, if implemented by all, would stop everyone from participating in Marquee events or indeed any event or action that unlocks a new character we are not instantly ready to get to relic level. All new characters we unlock at 3 stars slowly inflates our GP and slowly, cumulatviely, over time, across the guild, this punishes us. Or are you seriously going to claim it's good strategy to not unlock new characters until you have the gear to get them immediately to g13?

    4) This is supposed to be a Star Wars game. We play for the Star Wars characters. And now suddenly I'm going to be penalised because I want Princess Leia in my collection? Sure, I accept she's not the best character in the game but she's Princess flipping Leia and this is Star Wars. Your argument would have everyone avoiding the Star Wars nature of the game and only going for the elite characters regardless of who they are. Enfys Nest is a much better character in game than Princess Leia but I refuse to accept an argument that says in a Star Wars game you should farm Enfys Nest to g7 but don't unlock Princess Leia. That's just daft.

    1) this is ludicrous. Look me up on swgoh.gg - I have 2 g11 jawas, a g10 and 2 g9. The gearing beyond g9 was for the early days of HAAT, and g9 was comfortably good enough to beat the mod challenge.

    My highest GP Jawa is currently ranked 147th on my roster. I almost got an RSI scrolling down to find him.

    Please stop claiming that your jawas are in any way affecting your matchmaking and in any way a liability. Because this simply isn’t true.

  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    What is it with people on this site struggling so much with analogies?
    Either people bend the analogy to breaking point or they tear holes in what is clearly an example of a wider issue and think that just by discrediting this one example analogy suddenly the whole argument is bunk.

    There is a much broader issue here which is a serious problem in the game and when I talk about the problem with generalisations, people tell me to be more specific. When I talk about the problem with specifics, people say it's "ludicrious" and can't be used as an example of the more general problem.
    It's quite clear that people just don't want to talk about the problem.

    So whatever. I'm done.

    But GP is broken and not fit for the purpose of matchmaking.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    What is it with people on this site struggling so much with analogies?
    Either people bend the analogy to breaking point or they tear holes in what is clearly an example of a wider issue and think that just by discrediting this one example analogy suddenly the whole argument is bunk.

    There is a much broader issue here which is a serious problem in the game and when I talk about the problem with generalisations, people tell me to be more specific. When I talk about the problem with specifics, people say it's "ludicrious" and can't be used as an example of the more general problem.
    It's quite clear that people just don't want to talk about the problem.

    So whatever. I'm done.

    But GP is broken and not fit for the purpose of matchmaking.
    Your example is ludicrous. Are your jawas still in your top 100 GP toons?
  • Stenun
    765 posts Member
    Your example is ludicrous. Are your jawas still in your top 100 GP toons?

    It is ludicrous for the Straw Man representation of my words that you are currently attacking, yeah.
    My whole point about the Jawas was purely to illustrate that we are not, nor have not, all been playing by the same rules. I never claimed that my Jawas are a massive liability, I used them as one example of the much wider problem.
    And I think you know that.
    And I also think that if I were to use another example to illustrate the problem, you would have the same reaction: "oh it's ludicrousous to say that your OG Jedi are a liability" or "oh it's ludicrous to say that your WIggs is a liability", etc. We would dance this dance dozens of times and you would still avoid the actual point I was trying to make.
    We are not, nor ever have been, all been playing by the same rules.

    And it is responses like yours which are the reason I am not going to bother with this thread any more.
    I'm responding one final time to give a better, calmer, explanation of why I am now going to stop because my last message was a bit rushed. But I feel I have explained it properly now and won't respond to this thread again. No matter how many people misrepresent me, accuse me of not being specific enough, accuse me of being too specific, or whatever.

    Good day.

    Matchmaking is broken. Peace, out.
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