Why do you punish players for building a team?

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Konviction
7 posts Member
edited April 27
I have been playing for a month or so and the one thing that I can’t understand is why GW , for newer players, is so hard.

What is the point of making it impossible to complete most days?

GW is NOT a relevant part of the game for anyone that has been playing for a while so why do you handicap the new player with the scaling system for GW?

The resources for completion are nice and needed by any new player, I mean this game is 5 years old.

I don’t mind working for something but it should be about building up to complete a task, not about the higher you build the harder the task gets.

I have a 75 Phoenix team G8 and modded and several days running I get a full level 85 Jedi team that basically wipes me without even getting a chance to do anything....that’s fun...NOT

I have watched several videos and the jist is either cheese it when your really low level or build multiple teams up.

Again I ask why is that necessary for a 5 year old game.

GW should reward you for building a team, not punish you.

If the intention is to get me to spend, I can assure you, game mechanics like this just drive me to quit playing ( and yes I do spend but not to complete a broken mechanic ).

Needed to vent...

Konviction
Post edited by crzydroid on

Replies

  • crzydroid
    5980 posts Moderator
    One month is still VERY early game. Yes, multiple teams will help you, but that is your ultimate goal anyway, and you don't need to spend to do it.

    The other thing is what mods you have. Make sure you have the right sets and primaries, certainly, but also having really good speed secondaries will help immensely. It does take some time to get up a nice collection of those.

    The difficulty of GW does cap around level 85, so eventually you'll start to find it incredibly easy.
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.
  • It's a Galactic War. A single 5-man squad is not expected to win an entire Galactic War on their own in the early game; you have to expand your roster to succeed. Strategize team management to hit the hard nodes with your best squads primed for action. Some days it will be painful and you will fail. War can be like that. You will get past it.
  • Konviction
    7 posts Member
    edited May 11
    Thanks all for the replys.

    While I understand the whole “ it’s learning the teams “ idea and I agree I have had several fights I’ve had to try many times to beat and I’m ok when it’s a fair fight, I don’t mind that and enjoy the challenge.

    It should not be my level 74 team vs. full level 85 team of Jedi’s with a Bas lead. No amount of strategy or trying will make any difference when they literally one shot any team I try. That is just poor match making period.

    Especially when it’s the last node to clear GW for the day. It’s just plain insulting to match a team that can’t be beat by the rooster I have.

    I realize that at some point GW will be in the rear view and nothing but a one button sim, it doesn’t change the fact that it shouldn’t be an impossible task for a little bit of loot, which for a new player makes a huge difference. It’s an old old game mechanic that only frustrates the new players.

    Just look at the amount of post about it’s the main negative when starting new....why make it so frustrating...for what purpose?

    I’ll get through it eventually but I stand by my statement that the difficulty needs to be lessened, even if you beat it everyday, it still takes almost two months to complete, that’s enough time to spend in one area of the game, it doesn’t need to take three to four months. If you haven’t learned about the teams you fight by two months....then you never will.....

    Thanks again for the feedback :)
    Post edited by crzydroid on
  • Konviction
    7 posts Member
    edited May 11
    Today is awesome, at sixth tier, which is supposed to be a slightly harder matched power team, I get a level 85 full Jedi team with bast. lead and Yoda, Anakin and my level 76 Phoenix team gets obliterated. Slightly harder my butt. This match making is a joke.

    I mean on other days I get very beatable teams at this node, they are a notch up from the first five teams but beatable with a couple of attempts.

    Terrible game design as indicated by the number of post on this garbage.

    Do they want me to delete this game, it’s like they are trying on purpose to get me to rage quit and I don’t think I’m too far away at this point.

    Starting from scratch on a five year old game puts me way way way way behind most players and I desperately need the resources from GW to help me level up at a decent pace. I don’t need to get 200 fricken GW tokens vs 1200 because of poor game matchups based on a broken design. There is Zero reason to have GW, on a 5 year old game, to be this impossible to clear on so many days.

    Wake up Capital Games and change this old and broken design so you stop running off people who are just trying to enjoy the game.





    Post edited by crzydroid on
  • TVF
    31095 posts Member
    Starting from scratch on a five year old game puts you on the same level as everyone else who started at the same time you did, which is all that matters.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Waqui wrote: »
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.

    "Galactic War is supposed to be frustrating, then once you get level 85 it becomes boring." Wow.. great advertisement for a game mode right there. I think you just made the O.P.'s point for them. xD
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.

    "Galactic War is supposed to be frustrating, then once you get level 85 it becomes boring." Wow.. great advertisement for a game mode right there. I think you just made the O.P.'s point for them. xD

    If that' s how you read it I guess nobody here can help you.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.

    "Galactic War is supposed to be frustrating, then once you get level 85 it becomes boring." Wow.. great advertisement for a game mode right there. I think you just made the O.P.'s point for them. xD

    If that' s how you read it I guess nobody here can help you.

    You literally said at level 85 GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting. I'm not misreading anything. That is not a good thing to say about a game mode in a video game my man.
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.

    "Galactic War is supposed to be frustrating, then once you get level 85 it becomes boring." Wow.. great advertisement for a game mode right there. I think you just made the O.P.'s point for them. xD

    If that' s how you read it I guess nobody here can help you.

    You literally said at level 85 GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting. I'm not misreading anything. That is not a good thing to say about a game mode in a video game my man.

    Having a training ground is good for a game - but apparently some people don't understand the concept.

  • Waqui wrote: »
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    The scaling is what makes GW both a challenge and a training ground for new players. Both the scaling as you progress through the 12 nodes and the scaling as you develop your top team. You can complete it most days - but probably not every day. If it was much easier it wouldn't be the same training ground.

    Once you reach the cap (or get to sim at level 85 - 50 completions) GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting.

    "Galactic War is supposed to be frustrating, then once you get level 85 it becomes boring." Wow.. great advertisement for a game mode right there. I think you just made the O.P.'s point for them. xD

    If that' s how you read it I guess nobody here can help you.

    You literally said at level 85 GW becomes too easy, boring and uninteresting. I'm not misreading anything. That is not a good thing to say about a game mode in a video game my man.

    Having a training ground is good for a game - but apparently some people don't understand the concept.

    Having a training ground is a good thing. You are 100% correct on that. But there is also nothing wrong with admitting when there are some flaws to the training ground. Nothing improves if everyone is resistant change. That creates stagnation. What I see here is a.. "I suffered so you should suffer too.." mentality. What would be productive would be a "I suffered so what can I do to help others suffer less?." But not every soul is capable of such altruism so I understand.

    Again I can live with the game mode.. I've already gotten one 7* out of the War store. But I can also admit that it has some flaws, and I won't jump on someone for pointing them out. From my experience with Galactic War so far is that 80% of the time the matches are just straight cakewalks, 10% are actually good tests, and then 10% are just outright beyond a players current budget.

    I think what is a big problem that is happening lately is that many people are farming Phoenix Squad, and with the recent double drops.. a bunch of people have 6 or 7* phoenix squads at gear tier 4-5 and level 45. This massively inflates their GP of their main squad, then when they get into Galactic War they end up facing someone 20 levels above them with mods because that is what their inflated GP suggests they should face. One year ago it would have took new players 2 months or more to farm a 7* Phoenix, now that time has been cut in half. But naturally the gear grind and Ability grind have not been cut in half.. However its * that inflates GP more than anything. So forgive me if I can sympathize with these players.
  • CCyrilS
    5536 posts Member
    edited May 11
    Deleted
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    If everyone could beat GW everyday with their Phoenix (or whatever team they focus on first) it wouldn't be much of a training ground. This game isn't a one-team-wins-all-game-modes game. It's really quite simple.
  • Just because you farmed a single team early game doesn’t mean you’ll clear GW. Especially Phoenix. Once you get Thrawn drop them in the garbage chute.
  • kello_511
    1562 posts Member
    There is a lot of randomness to who you face in GW, especially in those later nodes. I believe that the teams are based only on GP of the team, which means that there can be some pretty significant swings in difficulty of a given team.
    There is a segment in time where those teams get pretty powerful and can be quite difficult to beat, which is where you are now.

    GW wasn’t always like that. In fact it used to be that it was (maybe?) glitched as the node 11/12 were ultra easy teams. The devs fixed that eventually and it became what we have now.

    Many of us who started early only had to endure that window for a really short time, and had enough of a roster built up (before the game mode switched to that ultra-hard) that we barely noticed.
    It will still be a relatively short window for you as well, although I get that it can be very frustrating.

    Just keep building up more teams and accept that at times you won’t clear GW. It is what it is.

    I doubt that the devs have any plans to “fix” it because it is only an issue for players within that window.
  • I think the solution is to advise newcomers to not rapidly Star up their characters. I wouldn't advise pushing beyond 4 or 5* until you get your initial squad to gear 7-8. This would keep the GP of your main squad down and keep the gear level of your foes down below gear 7 and 8 also. What I have seen lately with the x2 drops on nodes and 10 shards per store purchase is you get Phoenix to 6* easily just as your hitting gear 6. However at gear 6 with a GP of 30K because the team is 6*, your running yourself into plenty of Gear 8 Squads.. with well built mods.

    I did a test of another account where I've kept everyone at 4* and gear 6, and Galactic War has been an utter cakewalk. Sometimes there will be a character on the other side that is gear 7.. but no gear 8's.. and not heavily modded.
  • CCyrilS
    5536 posts Member
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    I think the solution is to advise newcomers to not rapidly Star up their characters. I wouldn't advise pushing beyond 4 or 5* until you get your initial squad to gear 7-8. This would keep the GP of your main squad down and keep the gear level of your foes down below gear 7 and 8 also. What I have seen lately with the x2 drops on nodes and 10 shards per store purchase is you get Phoenix to 6* easily just as your hitting gear 6. However at gear 6 with a GP of 30K because the team is 6*, your running yourself into plenty of Gear 8 Squads.. with well built mods.

    I did a test of another account where I've kept everyone at 4* and gear 6, and Galactic War has been an utter cakewalk. Sometimes there will be a character on the other side that is gear 7.. but no gear 8's.. and not heavily modded.

    you can now level up 2 squads in the time you used level up 1. Shouldn't that make up the difference?

    Also I'm not sure beating GW is worth sacrificing the stars?

    Do new players still know about preloading TM in early nodes to be able to beat the harder ones?
  • crzydroid
    5980 posts Moderator
    kello_511 wrote: »
    There is a lot of randomness to who you face in GW, especially in those later nodes. I believe that the teams are based only on GP of the team, which means that there can be some pretty significant swings in difficulty of a given team.
    There is a segment in time where those teams get pretty powerful and can be quite difficult to beat, which is where you are now.

    GW wasn’t always like that. In fact it used to be that it was (maybe?) glitched as the node 11/12 were ultra easy teams. The devs fixed that eventually and it became what we have now.

    Many of us who started early only had to endure that window for a really short time, and had enough of a roster built up (before the game mode switched to that ultra-hard) that we barely noticed.
    It will still be a relatively short window for you as well, although I get that it can be very frustrating.

    Just keep building up more teams and accept that at times you won’t clear GW. It is what it is.

    I doubt that the devs have any plans to “fix” it because it is only an issue for players within that window.

    The super easy node 12 only happened if your power was so high it broke the algorithm because it couldn't find teams that were high enough power. Node 12 was always meant to be ultra hard, with all the purple nodes being harder than the others. I think that even if you got the easy node 12 though, you faced a hard node 10.

    The switch to the version we have now was to cap the difficulty at about what a person who just hit level 85 would have. So it was actually a huge nerf to the difficulty.
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    DarthSeryl wrote: »
    I think the solution is to advise newcomers to not rapidly Star up their characters. I wouldn't advise pushing beyond 4 or 5* until you get your initial squad to gear 7-8. This would keep the GP of your main squad down and keep the gear level of your foes down below gear 7 and 8 also. [...]

    Terrible advice. I wouldn't recommend that since:

    A. Holding back the development of your main team will hurt you in arena(s) and other game modes and delays your unlocking of your first legendary characters (whether it's EP/Thrawn, Padme, GMY or...).
    B. You can still complete GW most days if your main team and tactics are good.

  • Well this week Ive been able to clear GW a whopping one time.

    I get that GW is kinda of a right of passage and at some point soon, as everyone says, it will be easily beatable and irrelevant part of the game.

    If it becomes irrelevant then why make it so hard to beat for people trying to level up so they can start to really play the game?

    Why have a game mechanic that is frustrating to players trying to level?

    What is the point of that?

    It’s not a matter of being a training grounds when you get teams that can’t be beat ( after many many attempts and combos of teams )?

    What is the point of punishing someone for rapidly trying to build a team?

    It’s a trash mechanic that needs to go the way of the dodo bird, it adds zero fun to the game and zero since of accomplishment when you get teams that are well above your best team.

    Again, this game is 5 years old, there is Zero reason to have a game design that punishes you leveling up, what sense does that make?

    I firmly believe the thought process is “let’s make this hard so the newbs spend money to try and beat it” which is all well and good but when there are tons of other reasons to level up your teams, most people will spend a little bit to help them out. They don’t need to fell forced to spend to get past a frustrating game experience.

    There are F2P players that will not spend any money early on and that kind on mechanic will only drive them away from the game which doesn’t help anyone - having a thriving player population is important to a games long term survivability - why keep an archaic mechanic in place that threatens that?

    There is so much to do in this game , there is no need for a frustrating experience for people who are trying to level up to get to level 85 - which is really the beginning of the game from what I can tell.

    Again, my biggest complaint is that you get punished - pre level 85, which takes a while to reach, for trying to level up a team. That’s just lazy poor game design period…..
  • The point of frustrating players is money. If people are impatient and frustrated, some of them will spend money to get past it.

    I'm a 4+ year player and there are still parts of the game I can't beat.

    GW has already been made easier in some ways, what is it, only 50 completions to sim it? I think it was 150 for me. Difficulty has been changed to top out at some point, instead of keep scaling higher and higher.

    They are not going to make it any easier. You will grow into it, then past it. Then you'll grow into other parts of the game, then past them. And so on... this is their intended design.
  • Gifafi
    5697 posts Member
    It’s hard to beat for beginners. It becomes irrelevant as your roster improves. Asking why it is hard for beginners is missing the point.

    It’s like asking why the rancor raid is so hard when you and your guild start doing it. Then the same thing when you move to tank, hsth, and eventually crancor.

    Things are only “too hard” until you git gud. So that’s my advice.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Perfect example:

    A level 80 5 star Jenga Fett completely wrecked my level 79 7 star Phoenix team…..1 guy 1 level above and 2 stars below wrecks my entire team? When I have turn meter advantage?

    Again it’s not a matter of I’ll get past it or other parts of the game are hard….it’s a matter of how ridiculous the difficulty scale is, in that the stronger you get the more impossible some matches become.

    Do any other parts of the game get harder the higher you level or do they become easier? My guess is they get easier as you get stronger teams. That is and has been how games are designed for the last 30 years.

    They probably won’t change it but it doesn’t mean it’s not a broken part of the game.

    If this were a newer game and most of the player base was fighting through GW then whatever, it is what it is but for a 5 year old game, the newb content should be designed to be doable and enjoyable, not a royal PITA. I don’t mind a grind but come on, GW is just stupid design.

    If you take any game that has been around for 5 years, they make the old content easier and more stream lined to get people hooked, lol. This design just hurts new players for rewards that are great for newbs but mean nothing to veterans.

    I mean this is the feedback forums, I’m just telling you how I feel and looking through the forums, I’m no where near alone about GW and how it is by far the worst part of the low level gaming experience.

  • Gifafi
    5697 posts Member
    Early and mid-game is a million times easier than it was before.

    Go on, git!
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    Konviction wrote: »
    Perfect example:

    A level 80 5 star Jenga Fett completely wrecked my level 79 7 star Phoenix team…..1 guy 1 level above and 2 stars below wrecks my entire team? When I have turn meter advantage?

    Did you try stunning him? Do you have any potency mods on Zeb? How are the mods on the rest of your team? Did you try with your secondary team (empire have plenty of crowd control)?

    If this is your profile:

    https://swgoh.gg/p/542697275/

    ... I see what your problem is. Don't underestimate the importance of modding well. I'm sure, you will see an improvement if you move some mods you already have around (that's part of the training ground effect).
  • crzydroid
    5980 posts Moderator
    Again, it only scales on top five. Building up multiple teams will give you an advantage. You're not SUPPOSED to beat it with just one team when you're a beginner.

    Are there other parts of the game that do this as well? Yes, if you get just one team to relics and have no one else, your Grand Arena matches will be horrible.
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    Another key point about the difficulty, is its difficult when you do not have counter teams.

    A progressive game mode like this is supposed to be hard, and get easier as you develop. It also teaches you about mechanics and how to counter them.

    Development of both strength and width of roster are key. Yes it is meant to kick you butt at times and you will learn to get through it. Its important to learn the things its teaching you, one of them is patience.
  • I am developing my roster as best I can for now. Although every single newer YouTube video tells you NOT to develop the roster or you kill any chance of doing well in early game GAC.

    I have no idea about GAC but when every single content creator says not to develop your rooster and keep GP as low as possible, then I tend to believe there is something to that.

    I would love to develop mods but this game is as stingy with credits as any mobile game I have played in 15 years. I barely have enough credits to level 7-8 characters when I level up a level. There is very little left over to play with mods, as that cost is too high - compared to many other mobile games, and I’ve tried 100’s.

    Not to mention I accidentally sold all my mods I had acquired about 2 weeks ago - mod interface is another area that is lacking as well. But that’s my bad, live and learn.

    Early and mid game SHOULD be much easier on a game that’s five years old…they will never get newbs to infuse the game if they have to grind years just to get to mid game when the majority of the player base is already at end game. Without newbs constantly trying the game ( and spending) then the game will die. It happens over and over and over again to older games. Every YouTube video talks about the latest and greatest which is mostly for end game peeps. That’s what keeps the game exciting and people wanting to try it out, but if mechanics are in place that cripple the leveling process than how is that a good thing? It’s not, period.

    I do appreciate the people trying to be helpful, minus the trolls of course.

    Today I got to GW node 9 before a clone team wiped all three of my squads..least it was one better than yesterday ( it was another clone team as well ).

    About two months of playing and I have 16 clears - woohoo.

    I should of done more research and just kept levels low to cheese GW just to get through it, although 50 days of not grinding anything probably would have bored me to death and I would have quit. If I don’t leave the game better than when I started for the day, then I feel like it’s completely wasted time and I can’t play games like that.

    So for now I will continue to hate GW but the tokens are needed to badly to help level my fleet :)



  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    There is a lot of advice out there and you need to definitely take a lot into account when making choices, but you also need to take it with a grain of salt and find your own path.

    You should look more into the rules, rewards, and matchmaking for GAC, and also consider if this is the game mode you want driving your development plan. Make sure to make your own choices, and understand what your own long term plan is.

    The game has a pace and its setup like a marathon, planning and patience will get you very far. Make a plan and work the plan.


    As far as the direct correlation between GAC development and doing better in GW, developing a second team that is going to be useful in GAC, will help you in GW, and should go against any of the more focused advice for GAC.
  • Waqui
    8575 posts Member
    Konviction wrote: »
    I am developing my roster as best I can for now. Although every single newer YouTube video tells you NOT to develop the roster or you kill any chance of doing well in early game GAC.

    I have no idea about GAC but when every single content creator says not to develop your rooster and keep GP as low as possible, then I tend to believe there is something to that.

    I'm not sure you've understood them correctly. And don't worry. You're far from that stage still. As long as you only develop characters that you have a use for and don't develop them beyond where they do the job you're good in GAC as well.
    Konviction wrote: »
    I would love to develop mods but this game is as stingy with credits as any mobile game I have played in 15 years. I barely have enough credits to level 7-8 characters when I level up a level. There is very little left over to play with mods, as that cost is too high - compared to many other mobile games, and I’ve tried 100’s.

    Another example of misunderstanding. I didn't recommend to "develop mods". I recommended to move the ones you already have around. But it's all up to you whether you want to improve your performance in squad arena and GW by moving mods around or not. Yes, it may cost a bit of credits to move them but it's worth the investment. You'll win those credits back. If you want more specific advice on how to improve mods on your Phoenix team all you have to do is ask.
    Konviction wrote: »
    Early and mid game SHOULD be much easier on a game that’s five years old…they will never get newbs to infuse the game if they have to grind years just to get to mid game when the majority of the player base is already at end game. Without newbs constantly trying the game ( and spending) then the game will die. It happens over and over and over again to older games.

    You're too late to that party. The game died back in 2016 when mods were introduced - and a couple of times every year since then.
    Konviction wrote: »
    Every YouTube video talks about the latest and greatest which is mostly for end game peeps. That’s what keeps the game exciting and people wanting to try it out, but if mechanics are in place that cripple the leveling process than how is that a good thing? It’s not, period.

    There are a few videos out there about farming paths for new players as well.

    Your problems in GW don't cripple your leveling. You gain exp by burning energy and completing daily challenges.
    Konviction wrote: »
    I do appreciate the people trying to be helpful, minus the trolls of course.

    Today I got to GW node 9 before a clone team wiped all three of my squads..least it was one better than yesterday ( it was another clone team as well ).

    About two months of playing and I have 16 clears - woohoo.

    A couple years ago I created an alt account just for fun. I reached the 50 GW completions before level 79 (I abandoned the account again mid 70s). The GW design hasn't changed since.
    Konviction wrote: »
    I should of done more research and just kept levels low to cheese GW just to get through it, although 50 days of not grinding anything probably would have bored me to death and I would have quit.

    I wouldn't recommend to follow DarthSeryl's advice. See my response to them for an explanation why.

    If you really want to you could farm all you want without applying the gear or training/promoting/unlocking any character. Just stockpile/hoard the resources until you feel like using them.
    Konviction wrote: »
    If I don’t leave the game better than when I started for the day, then I feel like it’s completely wasted time and I can’t play games like that.

    So for now I will continue to hate GW but the tokens are needed to badly to help level my fleet :)

    Alternatively you could try improving your team(s) and learn to master GW. But do whatever is more fun for you.

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