Conquest 4 Feedback [MERGE]

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  • Paul1994 wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    I’m wondering if anyone else is finding the current Conquest event super hard compared to the previous events?

    I’m finding that regardless of the teams I’m loosing health on every turn and every battle the enemy teams seem to take a ridiculous amount of chain attacks.

    I’m wondering if this is intentional or a bug? I normally find the event rather enjoyable but this time I’m finding it was ridiculously difficult even on normal mode.

    Many thanks

    P

    Yes... definitely. I do not come to the forums often but I felt like I'm having the same issues with higher difficulty.

    Last time I was able to beat all sectors on hard with no issue. Now I'm stuck in sector 3, next to last battle, fighting a general Anakin clone team with steadfast retribution and getting my behind handed to me in it and up to this point.
  • twstdbydsn
    672 posts Member
    edited May 24
    I am almost done with Sector 2 and it seems similar to me so far. I've only had 1 match up that felt tougher than most overall.
    Post edited by twstdbydsn on
  • The phoenix squad I faced in sector 2 was over prepared III, giving them +40% speed, offense, max health and max protection. Definitely more challenging, but doable.

    OP: I'm seeing a lot more GR with the steadfast retribution this time around - at least mid-way thru sector 3. I'm just happy they didn't use that modifier for the GR bosses! That would be brutal.
  • MasterSeedy
    3374 posts Member
    I'm seeing a lot more GR with the steadfast retribution this time around - at least mid-way thru sector 3

    The enemies are random. I hate SR as well. There are ways of dealing with it of course, Rey being my favorite, but nonetheless I dislike it. But you're not seeing more GR with SR squads because of a design choice related to difficulty. You're just seeing that randomly.
  • Kyno
    30052 posts Moderator
    personally, I find difficulty fun, but that is just me.

    Of course I find it fun to overcome difficult challenges. You're not reading me, or not understanding me.

    If you put in specific difficulty factor, in this case speed, and then you put in something to purchase for the same currency the event provides as a reward that boosts your own team's speed to cancel out the advantage of the other side, then this is just a "tax": Everyone can compete fairly on speed so long as the rewards are reduced.

    If this is the primary thing that makes it difficult, then there's no strategy to it at all: it's only a tax, and that's it. Some people like me can get around it. I can use JKLS lead + JML. With his 500ish speed JML goes first & uses Heroes arise, and then before the enemy gets a turn their speed is reduced to 110ish. Which means the tax I pay will be less than what others will pay, but it's not like it's meaningful in any event.

    If you removed the consumable and took the enemy speed down to something reasonable, you would have the exact same level of difficulty as if you never boosted enemy speed or offered a speed consumable in the first place.

    I like difficulty. But because speed consumables exist, CG still needs to make it difficult when speeds are roughly equal. If CG is relying on speed to make things difficult, then they shouldn't offer the consumable. If they're not relying on speeds to make it difficult, then ... it's pointless.

    At least Speed data disks offered a meaningful strategic choice: since slots are limited, you can gain a speed advantage only by forgoing some other advantage you might like to have in the same battle. If they were worried that Quicken was too easy to come by, the interesting choice would be to offer a +25% speed disk that uses up 4 slots. That equates to a lot of other bonuses you would have to give up and, again, makes for interesting strategic choices as a result.

    "Will I bang my head against a wall of super fast toons that one shot characters or will I spend X currency to play the battle on easy mode?" isn't an interesting strategic choice. It's boring, it's lazy, and, wait for it, ...

    ...it's no fun.

    Insinuating that I don't like difficulty by avoiding the actual issues present in their game design choices isn't helping you defend your position at all. This is a bad game design choice.

    I did understand you, but the "issue" here is that any one particular stat can be a problem for anyone. development and mods can play a big factor there, so focusing in on any single element "doesn't work".

    if you lower the speed or any particular stat, you then make what was difficult at the upper end, easy, which may not be the goal.

    I think the whole situation is much more layered than this, and just saying reduce speed and remove speed consumables doesn't necessarily achieve the same goal.

    if this was meant to be a layered outcome you have people who can beat it with nothing, people who can beat it with consumables, people who can't beat it no matter what but within that group you have players who can and cannot progress further with consumables. if consumables are not seen as "powerful enough" they become pointless.

    that is why i said they may have wanted it to be harder to make more definition between those groups, and "want" players to use those "more". I also feel that what the stat is is more or less irrelevant.

    I guess if you assume that you need to use speed to overcome a team rather than any other stat it may appear to be not strategic, but certain teams can overcome a challenge without being faster, but adding other stats that contribute to their synergy.

    I agree about discs, and we may see them come back when others are removed, or have cost changed, only time will tell, but many players consider those less strategic due to the cost of removal. (I dont, but others have said that)
  • I'm seeing a lot more GR with the steadfast retribution this time around - at least mid-way thru sector 3

    The enemies are random. I hate SR as well. There are ways of dealing with it of course, Rey being my favorite, but nonetheless I dislike it. But you're not seeing more GR with SR squads because of a design choice related to difficulty. You're just seeing that randomly.

    For an event that runs so infrequently and lasts so long, I feel like that type of RNG should be tuned down a little. Same with the data discs.
  • Acymetric
    92 posts Member
    edited May 24
    One other thought that occurred to me: the buffs and debuffs from the techs should not be dispellable. Most of the squads where initial tether tech would actually have an effect are already easy to take out without it. The rest are either immune or have a buff cleanse that they can get off before it ends up mattering.
  • NicWester
    7933 posts Member
    I would say that it’s not so much that this Conquest is difficult as it is that the first Conquests were easy. This is likely where the difficulty curve was supposed to be from the get-go.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Acymetric
    92 posts Member
    edited May 24
    NicWester wrote: »
    I would say that it’s not so much that this Conquest is difficult as it is that the first Conquests were easy. This is likely where the difficulty curve was supposed to be from the get-go.

    If the goal was for max rewards to mostly be attainable for people with 3M+ GP (on normal), which would make a little sense given the 4M cutoff for hard, then this is probably about right. It doesn't make it any less annoying to get max rewards last conquest only to likely end up gated somewhere in P3 or 4 this time around (and likely going forward pending either additional tweaks to the balance, me unlocking GL Rey, or me abandoning the GL Rey farm to relic Jedi, GR, and Sith).

    In other words, you're probably right but I don't have to like it :)
  • NicWester wrote: »
    I would say that it’s not so much that this Conquest is difficult as it is that the first Conquests were easy. This is likely where the difficulty curve was supposed to be from the get-go.

    that begs the question why not run it at the "correct" difficulty to start with.
  • Acymetric
    92 posts Member
    edited May 24
    NicWester wrote: »
    I would say that it’s not so much that this Conquest is difficult as it is that the first Conquests were easy. This is likely where the difficulty curve was supposed to be from the get-go.

    that begs the question why not run it at the "correct" difficulty to start with.

    It is hard to properly tune difficulty without having actual players involved to evaluate it. I can't fault them for not having it exactly right from the get-go, that was kind of expected, but I think they

    1) overcorrected and made Normal a little to hard for people with mid-range GP (also highly dependant on roster construction, GAS, Geos, and Padme are all basically direct counters to my top squads and they are EVERYWHERE, to say nothing of the frequent GG and DR squads).

    2) Would have been better off making it "too hard" and then tweaking it to make it a little easier. Going the other way is kind of a recipe for frustration for the players.
  • Hi guys,

    Sorry I’m very new to this so I don’t know how to directly reply to a comment. Please bare with me.

    So basically what’s happening in terms of loosing health is I attack the enemy obviously they loose health but for some reason I do too. For example if I use Vader Merciless Massacre by the time he’s attacked everyone he will be in the red in terms of health.

    I’m currently stuck at the end of Phase 3 (I think, GL REY)

    Also on a plus note all day the game has been closing itself for no apparent reason. Is anyone else experiencing this?
  • Paul1994 wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    Sorry I’m very new to this so I don’t know how to directly reply to a comment. Please bare with me.

    So basically what’s happening in terms of loosing health is I attack the enemy obviously they loose health but for some reason I do too. For example if I use Vader Merciless Massacre by the time he’s attacked everyone he will be in the red in terms of health.

    I’m currently stuck at the end of Phase 3 (I think, GL REY)

    Also on a plus note all day the game has been closing itself for no apparent reason. Is anyone else experiencing this?

    I forget the name but there's a special modifier in some battles that causes you to lose health when you deal damage (I think it's the amount of damage you dealt but not 100% sure). You can't be defeated by that damage but obviously it makes it a lot easier for other attacks or defeat you.
  • MasterSeedy
    3374 posts Member
    I would say that it’s not so much that this Conquest is difficult as it is that the first Conquests were easy.

    Since I'm not remotely near whale status (yes, I have a powerful roster, but not that powerful: take a look at my JKR and Sith Empire teams, for instance) and only got JML for this conquest, I agree. It's a challenge for the game devs to provide enough energy that people don't have to spent crystals just to play S5 even if they win all the previous battles without wasting energy AND simultaneously make it difficult or impossible to complete with a 4.5 to 5.5M gp roster. If I had gotten the next to best prize box the first few times, I would have been fine with that. I know that there are better rosters than mine out there, and allowing them to do better than I do isn't unfair.

    But there are also many people who are quite patient. If you only have 2 great teams, that's enough to use your stamina wisely and get through many if not all of the sectors. You fight your way through the battles using your best squads, then go back later with counter squads against whatever teams you thought would be easiest in order to pick up the feats. Designing a game mode that gives someone with a 7.5M gp roster max rewards, me with next best, and someone with 4.2M gp the minimum reward box may not be possible, because you have to allow for strategy to matter ... otherwise it's just a slot machine, insert Roster, spin dial, collect CAT shards.

    But that said, even if you find that someone with just the right 4.2M gp roster can complete S5, that doesn't mean you have to leave the Conquest difficulty where it was.

    I think that they tried to get a good range of difficulties in the Sectors and that a greater % of people were getting max rewards than they anticipated, so they're continuing to tweak it. If they were giving out more rewards than they expected and that's affecting both the economy and the psychology of the game (people expecting that just because they qualify for Hard Mode that means that they should expect max rewards), then that's a problem and so increasing the difficulty is absolutely what they should be doing.

    Separately, another thought on speed:

    I don't particularly like the speed system, but thinking about it more, it's not all teams that create the problem. It's rebels with their endless cries and Imps with their infinite TM train. Here the choice might very well be go first or give up. I don't like that. But since it's only particular squads, if CG gave Phoenix, CLS, and Imps a bonus other than speed, I think the problem would disappear.

    In the past, BTW, Geos & Ewoks might also be a problem because they too get a lot of TM jumps, but with the sheer numbers of assists & mass attacks, the use of Convor's Agility is going to give you tons of dodge and therefore tons of TM. So that disk should be something close to a hard counter for them, and their speed/TM train isn't the same problem it is for Rebels.

    So, ... CLS, Phoenix, Imps: Change the speed modifiers on those squads & I would be happy with the speed issue.

  • MasterSeedy
    3374 posts Member
    Though we've been talking about the speed factor, Konju has gone straight to the heart of things. All 5 of your points are dead on.
    1. Ability to check enemy stats. Don’t send us into battles blind. “The enemy is 40% faster” what does that mean? Add this feature to Challenges as well.

    YES. This is the #1 issue for me. We can check the speed and other stats of Arena opponents. Why not GC & Conquest opponents. I could not agree more. I would be over the moon if they made this change.

    2. Counters for feats in boss battles.

    YES. And this is the #2 issue for me, so I'm not only agreeing with what you're saying, so far I'm agreeing with your priority order. On those TM removal feats, the likelihood is that I'm removing 1200% TM instead of 700% because I just don't know how much has been removed. This doesn't make the game more challenging. It's not needed for difficulty that I don't know how close to the feat I am. What this does is ensure that people spend 5 minutes longer than necessary, drawing out the battle just to be certain they've got the feat without having to waste energy trying again.

    Could there by anything less fun than getting a feat and then deliberately drawing out the battle unproductively for another 5 to 10 minutes?

    Games should always prioritize the fun. The lack of a counter KILLS FUN. This is a huge problem CG, even if it only affects boss battles. FIX IT.
    3. Set areas for purple disk awards.

    I would care more about this if the purple disks were consistently the strongest in the game. But they're not. If I never got a purple disk my progression would not be affected in any way. So while I'm sympathetic to this criticism, until they better balance the different disks this would be my #5 priority.

    Or it would be my #6 priority, I guess, since now I'm adding "rebalance the purple disks" to the list.
    4. Variety of enemy per battle node choice. The choice between enemies in a 3 node choice shouldn’t be Carth, Carth or Carth.
    5. Variety of disks.

    I couldn't decide which of these were more important to me. I'd like both fixed, but neither is close to the level of importance as #1 & #2. There's a big drop in priority from those 2 down to the level of fixing node choices.
  • InyakSolomon88
    595 posts Member
    edited May 24
    In the past, BTW, Geos & Ewoks might also be a problem because they too get a lot of TM jumps, but with the sheer numbers of assists & mass attacks, the use of Convor's Agility is going to give you tons of dodge and therefore tons of TM. So that disk should be something close to a hard counter for them, and their speed/TM train isn't the same problem it is for Rebels.

    Have to find a Convor's agility first. I was more than halfway through sector 3 before I even found one. instead CG was doing things like this to me: wue98slag6ax.png
  • Konju
    1013 posts Member
    @MasterSeedy

    I like your criticism of the purple disks and the balancing aspect. I didn’t use a purple disk in either of the last 2 Conquests either (1 because I chose not to and another because I never had the option). This is definitely just for a fun/enjoyment aspect. My inclusion of that item is more about letting the players try out those disks (or at least have the chance to do so) more than give them to the players simply to get through the mode (Massively Over-Powered with Offense Buffs & Defense buffs is quite OP).
  • Konju
    1013 posts Member
    In the past, BTW, Geos & Ewoks might also be a problem because they too get a lot of TM jumps, but with the sheer numbers of assists & mass attacks, the use of Convor's Agility is going to give you tons of dodge and therefore tons of TM. So that disk should be something close to a hard counter for them, and their speed/TM train isn't the same problem it is for Rebels.

    Have to find a Convor's agility first. I was more than halfway through sector 3 before I even found one. instead CG was doing things like this to me: wue98slag6ax.png

    Yeah, that needs to be fixed. Terrible luck.
  • scuba
    12682 posts Member
    Simple as this, previous ones to many people cleared
    1. Remove cd reduction
    2. Add tons of speed to enemy (seems the only way they can make things "difficult")

    Sad it had to go that route, I was enjoying blowing stuff up and watching the players team go like the suped up AI teams.
  • Yea it is much harder IMO, and I've got pretty decent disks. I am basically down to my best team already most of the way into sector 2. I see no path to sector 5 unless somehow I get significant disk improvements.
  • scuba
    12682 posts Member
    It is still fun, just not as fun as before, then again I thought mods 1.0 was fun.
  • They've put better teams as bosses in this conquest. That's another added difficulty.
  • braccer
    7 posts Member
    edited May 24
    Has anyone found a way to beat the Sector 5 SLKR? His stats are insane. I’ve tried using JKR, JML, JKL, GAS, and wat like in arena, but he just smokes through them.
  • Vendi1983
    4675 posts Member
    I have double 50% Entrenched and double 75% Entrenched and then just Mirrored him with double tank FO.

    I have Massively Overpowered from Sector 3 at some point and still haven't equipped it.

    Entrenched is excellent, esp if you have relic Padmé. You can take the beating from being slower without dying, and you're debuff immune right out of the gate.
  • braccer wrote: »
    Has anyone found a way to beat the Sector 5 SLKR? His stats are insane. I’ve tried using JKR, JML, JKL, GAS, and wat like in arena, but he just smokes through them.

    I'm not in sector five but that's not the comp I use for SLKs in arena. JML lead w/JKL, Gen Sky, HYoda, JKR. build the ult and hYoda buffs everyone.
  • MasterGomez87
    12 posts Member
    edited May 25
    it is MUCH harder stopped me at boss for 2 and 3 but got RNG lucky 3 was alot easier then 2 was.

    Blocked off at Rey no idea how im supposed beat that without a GL
    Post edited by MasterGomez87 on
  • just ran into this at Sector 4..

    all 5 nodes are GR... I get that this "could" happen but this... is not ideal.. or fun..






    eri1atajyb5e.png
  • SotaDraken
    65 posts Member
    edited May 25
    SotaDraken wrote: »
    just ran into this at Sector 4..

    all 5 nodes are GR... I get that this "could" happen but this... is not ideal.. or fun..






    eri1atajyb5e.png

    was able to 1* the 2 nodes I needed to get past..

    used Palp, Vader, Thrawn,, Wat and Droideka..

    on the 2nd node, it came down to Droideka (had Medpac buff from Wat) taking out Rex, Cody, Clone Sargeant, and GK all by itself..

    Crazy!
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