The Stand Your Ground Update [MEGA]

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SemiGod
2130 posts Member
edited July 7
With CG waiting until next months LSGTB to fix the SYG bug, this leaves us with the 2nd TB where our KAM mission runs are impacted.

Considering how slow to obtain KAM is, the chance of him being required for the upcoming DS GL & him being a huge character for Jedi splits, I feel as if some sort of shard compensation should be given as the mission is drastically harder without the additional survivability from SYG.

Especially considering this is the 2nd TB where the bug will persist.

EDIT: Made it into a Mega thread
Post edited by Ultra on

Replies

  • Jpfit262
    418 posts Member
    So since the kam shard mission is going to be broken again for the upcoming TB, as it was the last time, it is going to be more difficult again. Because of the increased difficulty of the most difficult event in the game, it will make it much more difficult for guilds to get shards. The increase in difficulty delayed progress last TB and will further delay progress this time around.

    I appreciate the shuffle in August, but the one coming up is left un-fixed. I strongly believe there should be some kam shard comp for the last 2 TB. This progress has either delayed someone unlocking or 7* kam.
  • StarSon
    5201 posts Member
    edited July 8
    1. According to CG, it’s not a bug, it's a change that they have decided to revert
    2. They don't care that our KAM runs are impacted
    3. We have no way of knowing if KAM will be required for the next GL or not
    Post edited by StarSon on
  • SemiGod
    2130 posts Member
    On the bright side, the odds of KAM being required for Lord Vader are much lower considering the Mission is bugged ;)
  • wildnz
    87 posts Member
    Yeah this needs a response. Last month was particularly bad as it happened mid way through the lstb , so depending on when you did the KAM mission you either had stand your ground work as it has previous, or the no protection recovery way. Having it so all players lose the protection recovery aspect will mean some who would have completed the mission will fail. Its really hard to quantity as each guild and individual will be different as those with g12 clones would probably never win anyway, those with lots of experience and relic 7 clones probably will still win, those in the middle ; who really knows. I think some shards for all is probably the only prudent response, acknowledging due to the complexity described above it's unlikely to be 'fair".
  • Players in guilds who 7* KAM already have a competitive advantage over the rest of us bc of now, two months' worth of under-earning KAM shards compared to what we could have....this impacts TW, GAC, arena etc. And I'm **** they haven't done a make good.

    Specifically, it appears they have an advantage with JMK and KAM together on defense.

    They can easily write a script that says "take the last 3 months worth of this guild KAM shards earned and drop it to them in this TB
  • Ultra
    7898 posts Moderator
    SemiGod wrote: »
    On the bright side, the odds of KAM being required for Lord Vader are much lower considering the Mission is bugged ;)

    Don't think KAM will be required for anything anytime soon

    The idea of KAM being required for anything isn't going to cross my mind until there are about 10k players with 7* KAM in the game (currently its 3.5k)
  • SemiGod
    2130 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    SemiGod wrote: »
    On the bright side, the odds of KAM being required for Lord Vader are much lower considering the Mission is bugged ;)

    Don't think KAM will be required for anything anytime soon

    The idea of KAM being required for anything isn't going to cross my mind until there are about 10k players with 7* KAM in the game (currently its 3.5k)

    Yeah I know it’s very unlikely, but you know how I am. 😂
  • TheJEFFtm
    908 posts Member
    Yeah, I really gotta agree that a make good of some kind is probably going to be in order here… and as mentioned above, the last one broke between phases, so guild that ran the KAM mission in phase 3 were not nearly as affected as those who run it in 3 and 4, or 4 exclusively.

    My recommendation would be, (at a minimum,) compare KAM shards awarded to the guild in both May and June, and use the higher of those two numbers as the base for the make good.

    Just as an example, my guild all ran fairly early in p3 last TB (so none of us were affected by the bug) and hit 41 KAM shards, in May we hit 38 shards - so if we only win 25 missions this time, our make good after TB would be an additional 16 shards.

    If we hit 41 or above successes, no make good would be awarded (I mean, I think we should get something more anyways… but, whatever…)

    As another example, my friend’s guild runs the KAM mission Territory in both p3 and p4 (by not achieving a star there in p3), and they got 19 shards in May and 16 shards in June, so if they only pass 13 missions this go around, their make good should be another 6 shards at the end of TB (for a total of 19) to at least bring them up to their ‘unbugged’ performance level.
  • Chonsp
    21 posts Member
    August is back!
  • Whatelse73
    1083 posts Member
    Should be pretty simple. If your guild participates in LS Geo TB, each member should get 8-10 shards for each run. So, 16-20 shards total should be a decent mea culpa for the issue.
  • Leytuhas
    106 posts Member
    Not gonna lie @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI this issue is a bit bigger than a "whoops sorry.". How did a change that big even make it through QA without someone asking "didn't this work differently when we tuned the KAM mission".

    Seriously. Is there no source control? Just revert the specific change that caused this.
  • MprezdNZ
    13 posts Member
    I'm not sure why they didn't just make the decision to run DS first (which would mean 2 back to back) and then do LS later rather than swap with TW. So the way I read it now is we'll get 2 TBs back to back and 4 TWs back to back
  • TheJEFFtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I really gotta agree that a make good of some kind is probably going to be in order here… and as mentioned above, the last one broke between phases, so guild that ran the KAM mission in phase 3 were not nearly as affected as those who run it in 3 and 4, or 4 exclusively.

    My recommendation would be, (at a minimum,) compare KAM shards awarded to the guild in both May and June, and use the higher of those two numbers as the base for the make good.

    Just as an example, my guild all ran fairly early in p3 last TB (so none of us were affected by the bug) and hit 41 KAM shards, in May we hit 38 shards - so if we only win 25 missions this time, our make good after TB would be an additional 16 shards.

    If we hit 41 or above successes, no make good would be awarded (I mean, I think we should get something more anyways… but, whatever…)

    As another example, my friend’s guild runs the KAM mission Territory in both p3 and p4 (by not achieving a star there in p3), and they got 19 shards in May and 16 shards in June, so if they only pass 13 missions this go around, their make good should be another 6 shards at the end of TB (for a total of 19) to at least bring them up to their ‘unbugged’ performance level.

    --- But this part: "My recommendation would be, (at a minimum,) compare KAM shards awarded to the guild in both May and June, and use the higher of those two numbers as the base for the make good." fails to consider Guild Growth and improvement. If you are recently prioritizing KAM shards, this wouldn't factor that in.
  • TheJEFFtm
    908 posts Member
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Should be pretty simple. If your guild participates in LS Geo TB, each member should get 8-10 shards for each run. So, 16-20 shards total should be a decent mea culpa for the issue.

    Are you suggesting that all (or most) guilds are only getting 8-10 shards per LSTB event?
    I can tell you that isn’t the case by a long ways. (My guild has done 41/38/35/38 over the last four months and several of my friends are in contemporary guilds feilding similar numbers, and we would be fairly peeved to only receive 20 shards)

    This post should provide a little more depth to what GP guilds are averaging production wise, it’s certainly not exhaustive, but it should give you an idea…

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/245114/kam-shard-production/p3
  • TheJEFFtm wrote: »
    Yeah, I really gotta agree that a make good of some kind is probably going to be in order here… and as mentioned above, the last one broke between phases, so guild that ran the KAM mission in phase 3 were not nearly as affected as those who run it in 3 and 4, or 4 exclusively.

    My recommendation would be, (at a minimum,) compare KAM shards awarded to the guild in both May and June, and use the higher of those two numbers as the base for the make good.

    Just as an example, my guild all ran fairly early in p3 last TB (so none of us were affected by the bug) and hit 41 KAM shards, in May we hit 38 shards - so if we only win 25 missions this time, our make good after TB would be an additional 16 shards.

    If we hit 41 or above successes, no make good would be awarded (I mean, I think we should get something more anyways… but, whatever…)

    As another example, my friend’s guild runs the KAM mission Territory in both p3 and p4 (by not achieving a star there in p3), and they got 19 shards in May and 16 shards in June, so if they only pass 13 missions this go around, their make good should be another 6 shards at the end of TB (for a total of 19) to at least bring them up to their ‘unbugged’ performance level.

    --- But this part: "My recommendation would be, (at a minimum,) compare KAM shards awarded to the guild in both May and June, and use the higher of those two numbers as the base for the make good." fails to consider Guild Growth and improvement. If you are recently prioritizing KAM shards, this wouldn't factor that in.

    I agree completely, thus my “at a minimum” and “I think we should get something more” statements - I personally wouldn’t be horribly offended to receive just the pre-bug totals, but I do think there should be some additional compensation as well, I was just trying to present a reasonable baseline (IMHO) to start addressing the elephant in the room from.
  • TVF
    30068 posts Member
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Should be pretty simple. If your guild participates in LS Geo TB, each member should get 8-10 shards for each run. So, 16-20 shards total should be a decent mea culpa for the issue.

    That would be most welcome! I could really use the extra 300 shard shop currency :sunglasses:
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Will CG be bold enough to make KAM a req for the next GL after they have a known bug they didn’t fix, preventing people from getting him?
  • SemiGod
    2130 posts Member
    It would be bold regardless of the bug.

    Somewhere around 60,000-80,000 people had 7* Wat before he was made a GL req.

    Only 3587 people have a 7* KAM
  • TVF
    30068 posts Member
    Here's hoping!
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gifafi
    5569 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Here's hoping!

    Boo
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Nauros
    4440 posts Member
    Maybe if they didn't waste time on useless updates nobody asked for, it could have been solved by now...
  • As a make good wouldn’t it be possible to just double the KAM rewards until it is fixed. Considering the top guilds had multiple months of double rewards this is totally fair.
  • MasterSeedy
    3475 posts Member
    @TheJEFFtm
    Are you suggesting that all (or most) guilds are only getting 8-10 shards per LSTB event?

    No. THey're suggesting that the number of people who fail the mission because of this change when they would have won if the change had been reverted early is no more than 8 to 10 people per guild per TB.
    I ran my mission after the change last month. Worse, I was running it at the last possible minute with huge technical difficulties trying to stream the thing (on the 50 Shards of KAM Discord channel) which delayed things & increased stress. With 14 minutes to go I finally got things up and running.

    SYG provided me with no protection recovery, it was under the worst possible conditions, I was doing the mission alone without other streamers to talk tactics during the run, and 3 or 4 minutes later I got my shard. Easily.

    If your guild is getting 41 shards per month, I'll be surprised if you get fewer than 31 this month on the same number of player attempts.

    We've been talking about this quite a bit on 50SoK, and the apparent consensus is that the people it's most likely to affect are those who are running lower health Shaaks with no CritAvoid arrow. A guild that's strong enough to get 41 shards in a single month probably has plenty of CA arrows in their players' inventories.

    I agree a make good is probably necessary, but 8 to 10 shards is going to be more than generous for most guilds who are getting less than 30 shards anyway. For guilds like yours & mine we have more attempts so there's more chance to fail because of the switch, but we also have stronger players with stronger mod inventories.

    8 to 10 for this month and 4 to 5 for last month (since it did not affect all runs) is probably fine.

    They could, of course, provide a different make good for each guild using a method such as that you've suggested, but I personally doubt it's going to amount to more than 8 to 10 shards anyway, so why should they do the extra work?
  • Kvothe25 wrote: »
    Will CG be bold enough to make KAM a req for the next GL after they have a known bug they didn’t fix, preventing people from getting him?
    You mean a bug that's costing like 3-5 extra losses guildwide (when a guild should be able to get 35-40+, many just blame it on the bug when they'd fail anyway)?

    Yes, it has an impact, but not that dramatic to scrap a requirement if it would have been included in the first place.
  • Bartek
    94 posts Member
    I just read that August TB is being rescheduled. I was 100% sure that was a mistake and we are talking July. But.. well, no :o
    Anyway, CG should really think about compensating the players without 7* KAM. This problem is already beyond me but i still have some guildmates without maxed Ki-Adi.
  • Kyno
    30525 posts Moderator
    StarSon wrote: »
    1. It's not a bug, it's a change that they have decided to revert
    2. They don't care that our KAM runs are impacted
    3. We have no way of knowing if KAM will be required for the next GL or not

    2. They do care, and there was no change in the win rate last round. They will monitor the data this go also.

    Surprisingly our guild actually increased our win count last round.
  • Kyno
    30525 posts Moderator
    Kvothe25 wrote: »
    Will CG be bold enough to make KAM a req for the next GL after they have a known bug they didn’t fix, preventing people from getting him?

    If he is going to be required, he will be. This issue will not change that. They will rely on data to show how this impacts the players.
  • there was no change in the win rate last round.

    While that's good to know, without knowing how many people completed the mission before downloading the change we can't be sure how good that data is.
    They will monitor the data this go also.

    Good. I don't know how many people might fail b/c of the bug, and maybe the number will be very small, but I'm glad they're going to be paying attention.
    Surprisingly our guild actually increased our win count last round.

    Not that surprising. Except at the very top end guilds should be getting better prepared on average each month. Some won't, and even when you're better prepared RNG can hand you a bad run, but better toons is a positive, the change to SYG was a negative, and RNG over a small sample size (35 to 50 attempts) can easily be larger than the net effect of improved toons minus new SYG mechanic.

    I'd be interested in comparing the rate of increase in wins over the months before to end of last month + this month. If it's not increasing at the same rate, then that could easily be the effect of the SYG change even if successes don't actually go down.

    Note that I'm not complaining, I'm just noting that a single guild getting a few more shards last month isn't high quality evidence for the lack of an effect (or for quantifying the specific effect size).
  • Nauros
    4440 posts Member
    there was no change in the win rate last round.

    While that's good to know, without knowing how many people completed the mission before downloading the change we can't be sure how good that data is.
    They will monitor the data this go also.

    Good. I don't know how many people might fail b/c of the bug, and maybe the number will be very small, but I'm glad they're going to be paying attention.
    Surprisingly our guild actually increased our win count last round.

    Not that surprising. Except at the very top end guilds should be getting better prepared on average each month. Some won't, and even when you're better prepared RNG can hand you a bad run, but better toons is a positive, the change to SYG was a negative, and RNG over a small sample size (35 to 50 attempts) can easily be larger than the net effect of improved toons minus new SYG mechanic.

    I'd be interested in comparing the rate of increase in wins over the months before to end of last month + this month. If it's not increasing at the same rate, then that could easily be the effect of the SYG change even if successes don't actually go down.

    Note that I'm not complaining, I'm just noting that a single guild getting a few more shards last month isn't high quality evidence for the lack of an effect (or for quantifying the specific effect size).

    This. Arguing that there was no change in win rate and thus all is fine is simply playing us for fools. There should be more wins each month, due to player development. The win rate staying the same means there definitely is some adverse effect.
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