JMK breaks the status quo.

Replies

  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    How dare they climb in the arena without spending money! How awful of them. lol
    You’re revealing your true feelings here. It is erroneous to assume that everyone at the top of arena shards has spent money.

    I haven’t spent anything on the last 3 GLs or CAT. Have spent barely anything since getting GAS first time.

    Did you read what TVF said?
    These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep.
  • th3evo wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    How dare they climb in the arena without spending money! How awful of them. lol
    You’re revealing your true feelings here. It is erroneous to assume that everyone at the top of arena shards has spent money.

    I haven’t spent anything on the last 3 GLs or CAT. Have spent barely anything since getting GAS first time.

    Did you read what TVF said?
    These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep.
    It was probably in response to you suggesting a 2.9M GP player with 1 GL spends money - which you did.
  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    It was probably in response to you suggesting a 2.9M GP player with 1 GL spends money - which you did.


    th3evo wrote: »
    Do you as a 5 year old player really have someone with 2.9M GP in your shard? Did they suddenly come back?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.
    Saying that they have an option of spending money to buy the next GL isn't the same as suggesting they spend money.
  • TVF
    30032 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    How dare they climb in the arena without spending money! How awful of them. lol

    I love how you keep switching arguments, but also making counterarguments to things I didn't even say.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • th3evo wrote: »
    It was probably in response to you suggesting a 2.9M GP player with 1 GL spends money - which you did.


    th3evo wrote: »
    Do you as a 5 year old player really have someone with 2.9M GP in your shard? Did they suddenly come back?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.
    Saying that they have an option of spending money to buy the next GL isn't the same as suggesting they spend money.
    Oh dear. That’s your defence?
  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    How dare they climb in the arena without spending money! How awful of them. lol

    I love how you keep switching arguments, but also making counterarguments to things I didn't even say.
    TVF wrote: »
    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    This comment sounds like you are unhappy about players in your shard climbing and causing payout issues for others even though they don't spend money to keep up with the power creep. Am I mistaken?

  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    It was probably in response to you suggesting a 2.9M GP player with 1 GL spends money - which you did.
    th3evo wrote: »
    Do you as a 5 year old player really have someone with 2.9M GP in your shard? Did they suddenly come back?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.
    Saying that they have an option of spending money to buy the next GL isn't the same as suggesting they spend money.
    Oh dear. That’s your defence?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.
    What do you want from me? Nowhere in my comment did I suggest that the player spends money. It wasn't even my intention. I just said that they can.
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    edited July 22
    4sw9tlovpxor.png08ajpewqaa4g.png
    h8o4ch983q2g.png

    r8shj5t06rg8.png
    10 Kenobi in top 14. A top 14 that used to be quite diverse.


    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.

    But for a while there it was glorious. You could see three completely different teams to fight. Often, a specific lead team will have toons not normally associated with that team slotted in there. There has been a great diversity for some time and it’s been amazing.

    But that’s slowly changing. Forcing everyone, like before, in a singular way.

    I’ve thought one of the best things about this game recently was the diversity of teams with the 4 GL’s that could find a way to beat anything. So far Kenobi CAT counters are unreliable. So far.
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    Just don’t want to see a return to that stagnation
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    edited July 22
    And before anyone says I’m only 147, I’ll soon be on the way up, but the Kenobi wall will be on the way down 😂


    Jeez, haven’t even considered Vader.

    He’s gonna wreck isn’t he?
  • Kyno
    30501 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    This is exactly what I wanted from CAT / JMK.

    As alien as it may seem to some, I love the rewards I get from arena, and I like to get them with as little effort as possible.

    Having to watch my back for a 1 GL 2.9M GP player who climbs at all hours of the day is not what I want.

    Fighting 8,9,10 battles a day in squad arena is not what I want, even if there is variety in the squads I use in doing so. I already have to endure this in fleet arena.

    Seeing that 1 GL player reduced to feeding off scraps and sticking in the 20s all day is exactly what I want.

    And I am completely OK with the next GL replacing JMK, because I am confident I’ll unlock them much much faster than almost everyone else in my shard.

    Do you as a 5 year old player really have someone with 2.9M GP in your shard? Did they suddenly come back?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    I'd have to disagree. While some level of power creep is healthy for the game, I don't think it should be at a level as to lock out ftp players. Currently See and JML are recent enough that they should (and do) have a chance against the new meta.

    I didn't say lock out f2p players. I don't consider Rey or SLKR recent enough, and SEE and JML are pushing it. F2p players in 4 year old shard should need to get the newest thing to compete at the top of arena, not any one GL.

    I agree that the next few GLs should push Rey and Slkr from the top of arena. But see and jml are literally the newest GLs prior to this one. They should still have some viability for the next meta or two.

    I would imagine that giving a GL a small boost with a new toon is "easier" and therefore may happen over the next while rather than trying to keep the current pace of GLs, not to mention we will shortly run low on "GL worthy" characters.
  • Konju
    1082 posts Member
    JMK w/CAT is beatable with all of the other GLs.

  • TVF
    30032 posts Member
    Crayons wrote: »
    4sw9tlovpxor.png08ajpewqaa4g.png
    h8o4ch983q2g.png

    r8shj5t06rg8.png
    10 Kenobi in top 14. A top 14 that used to be quite diverse.


    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it.

    False
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Xcien
    1474 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    4sw9tlovpxor.png08ajpewqaa4g.png
    h8o4ch983q2g.png

    r8shj5t06rg8.png
    10 Kenobi in top 14. A top 14 that used to be quite diverse.


    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it.

    False

    Glad to see you enjoyed the stale meta, friend.
    "Thank you for evaluating."
  • TVF
    30032 posts Member
    Xcien wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    4sw9tlovpxor.png08ajpewqaa4g.png
    h8o4ch983q2g.png

    r8shj5t06rg8.png
    10 Kenobi in top 14. A top 14 that used to be quite diverse.


    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it.

    False

    Glad to see you enjoyed the stale meta, friend.

    Awww thanks buddy.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    This is exactly what I wanted from CAT / JMK.

    As alien as it may seem to some, I love the rewards I get from arena, and I like to get them with as little effort as possible.

    Having to watch my back for a 1 GL 2.9M GP player who climbs at all hours of the day is not what I want.

    Fighting 8,9,10 battles a day in squad arena is not what I want, even if there is variety in the squads I use in doing so. I already have to endure this in fleet arena.

    Seeing that 1 GL player reduced to feeding off scraps and sticking in the 20s all day is exactly what I want.

    And I am completely OK with the next GL replacing JMK, because I am confident I’ll unlock them much much faster than almost everyone else in my shard.

    Do you as a 5 year old player really have someone with 2.9M GP in your shard? Did they suddenly come back?
    Thanks to the power of money they will most likely be able to buy their way to the next GL and bother your still.

    Maybe not 2.9m but we are in an April 2017 and have had several sub 5m players with one GL show up out of nowhere and cause payout issues for others. These people don't spend money, if they did they would be able to keep up with power creep. They are taking advantage of rock paper scissors instead.

    I'd have to disagree. While some level of power creep is healthy for the game, I don't think it should be at a level as to lock out ftp players. Currently See and JML are recent enough that they should (and do) have a chance against the new meta.

    I didn't say lock out f2p players. I don't consider Rey or SLKR recent enough, and SEE and JML are pushing it. F2p players in 4 year old shard should need to get the newest thing to compete at the top of arena, not any one GL.

    I agree that the next few GLs should push Rey and Slkr from the top of arena. But see and jml are literally the newest GLs prior to this one. They should still have some viability for the next meta or two.

    I would imagine that giving a GL a small boost with a new toon is "easier" and therefore may happen over the next while rather than trying to keep the current pace of GLs, not to mention we will shortly run low on "GL worthy" characters.

    It's probably easier but not necessarily more profitable. Even with the relatively easy requirements of jmk, I'm sure he cost more resources than CAT. At end game especially, it was really easy to get 7 star CAT ftp. With 3 mo notice hoarding some gear wouldn't be that hard. I didn't since I'm working on jmk ftp but if you already had him then there isn't a lot of monetization there.

    If you consider both close together there can be. But if they released a toon to make Rey or Kylo meta again rather than releasing more GLs, then there wouldn't be much profit if they were a conquest character.

    So I'm guessing we'll still have some GLs coming even after Vader. There's the possibility of a mando era gl but I think that will be awhile since we may need more content before we see the big bad. (My guess is ashoka and thrawn). Maybe we'll get an old republic and with empire GL if they need to stall some.

    My point is that 2 years down the road, we won't have 8 GLs that are all competitive but likely 4 that are competitive and 4 that are less competitive.
  • Larx
    291 posts Member
    diversity in arena depends on your shard. on main account there were only JML and SEE, no place for Rey or SLKR. Rey teams are between Top 200- 400. Now with Kenobi becoming more and more famous in my shard top 20 belongs to them.

    in my shard u never had the chance of fighting against 4 different GLs. for me ( JML owner ) it is always a mirror match.
    same for fleets. 5 Male and 45 Negos in there.

    on my alt account:
    arenashard full of every GLs and only one Kenobi.
    fleet: even the **** meta is present or some Hux fleets.
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    4sw9tlovpxor.png08ajpewqaa4g.png
    h8o4ch983q2g.png

    r8shj5t06rg8.png
    10 Kenobi in top 14. A top 14 that used to be quite diverse.


    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it.

    False

    A statement without provenance, back up information, statistics, or even a well thought out opinion written clearly and succinctly, is invalid and worthless.

    True.
  • Crayons wrote: »
    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.
    That’s the bit I think is false - and the beauty is, because I know some people didn’t hate it, it is by definition false to claim we all hated it.
  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    edited July 22
    Kyno wrote: »

    I would imagine that giving a GL a small boost with a new toon is "easier" and therefore may happen over the next while rather than trying to keep the current pace of GLs, not to mention we will shortly run low on "GL worthy" characters.

    I said it before - massive jumps in power creep hurt the game. CG have been backing themselves into a corner for a long time now. They taught players to expect the next big thing to significantly outperform previous big things. If they want to keep players hooked they need Epic GLs and Legendary GLs.
    Power creep is fine but it needs to be slow and steady. Always replacing old meta with a new meta is a bad way to go about it. Look at how long and complicated the kits are nowadays - JMK = 790 words, JML = 637 words, SEE = 721 words. SEE gets two new abilities in his ultimate yet his kit is shorter than JMK's...
    I doubt they are going to release a character to specifically boost SLKR's viability for example. They might release something that will benefit him (like SEE+armorer) but I don't think they would do it on purpose.
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    Crayons wrote: »
    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.
    That’s the bit I think is false - and the beauty is, because I know some people didn’t hate it, it is by definition false to claim we all hated it.


    Fair. But his post required that information to be valid.

    However to the contrary, having been part of these forums, the game, and the wider community in general since Nov 2016, I am safe in my post that the majority, though I will now accept not all, players did not enjoy the stagnation, and have been enjoying the recent liberation of personal choice.
  • Crayons wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.
    That’s the bit I think is false - and the beauty is, because I know some people didn’t hate it, it is by definition false to claim we all hated it.


    Fair. But his post required that information to be valid.

    However to the contrary, having been part of these forums, the game, and the wider community in general since Nov 2016, I am safe in my post that the majority, though I will now accept not all, players did not enjoy the stagnation, and have been enjoying the recent liberation of personal choice.
    Of course, what constitutes enjoyment is different for different people.

    I’ve stated before I enjoy the rewards more than the process, so anything that makes it tougher for people with less developed rosters than me to contest those rewards with me, I’m going to like.

    Since I’ve been playing and earning top end arena rewards (I didn’t really crack top 20 til Traya) there have been 3 types of meta I’ve seen:

    1) hard-to-get characters, mods not especially important.
    This includes Traya, JKR, GAS. These were monotonous as you rarely if ever lost a mirror match once you knew the best strategy, but the exclusivity of the characters meant that there wasn’t a horde of people snapping at your heels.

    2) hard-to-get characters, mods extremely important
    This was the DR / Malak meta for me. I didn’t get Malak first time, which left me struggling in squad arena for months. And even when I got him, some people were still extremely hard to beat because of their superior mods.

    3) RPS
    This is what we have now, and I personally find it dull. Yes I can fight a JML team, followed by SLKR, followed by SEE, and I’d swap to the hard counter each time - but the battles themselves were pretty much full auto. Certainly after a handful of moves you could perfectly safely press auto.

    Of those 3 options, my preference remains #1, and I’m crossing my fingers that this is what JMK/CAT brings.
  • Antario
    396 posts Member
    edited July 22
    As a member of a well-organized arena shard server, the best meta was actually GAS-501. Everyone can beat everyone easily as long as you have GAS 501. Nobody needs to beg anyone to drop mods or change characters to reach the top. As long as the PO time was respected, everyone could get 500 crystals every day.

    The GAS-Meta was Socialism in its purest form.
  • Crayons
    252 posts Member
    Crayons wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.
    That’s the bit I think is false - and the beauty is, because I know some people didn’t hate it, it is by definition false to claim we all hated it.


    Fair. But his post required that information to be valid.

    However to the contrary, having been part of these forums, the game, and the wider community in general since Nov 2016, I am safe in my post that the majority, though I will now accept not all, players did not enjoy the stagnation, and have been enjoying the recent liberation of personal choice.
    Of course, what constitutes enjoyment is different for different people.

    I’ve stated before I enjoy the rewards more than the process, so anything that makes it tougher for people with less developed rosters than me to contest those rewards with me, I’m going to like.

    Since I’ve been playing and earning top end arena rewards (I didn’t really crack top 20 til Traya) there have been 3 types of meta I’ve seen:

    1) hard-to-get characters, mods not especially important.
    This includes Traya, JKR, GAS. These were monotonous as you rarely if ever lost a mirror match once you knew the best strategy, but the exclusivity of the characters meant that there wasn’t a horde of people snapping at your heels.

    2) hard-to-get characters, mods extremely important
    This was the DR / Malak meta for me. I didn’t get Malak first time, which left me struggling in squad arena for months. And even when I got him, some people were still extremely hard to beat because of their superior mods.

    3) RPS
    This is what we have now, and I personally find it dull. Yes I can fight a JML team, followed by SLKR, followed by SEE, and I’d swap to the hard counter each time - but the battles themselves were pretty much full auto. Certainly after a handful of moves you could perfectly safely press auto.

    Of those 3 options, my preference remains #1, and I’m crossing my fingers that this is what JMK/CAT brings.

    And I’m thinking that being able to bring a counter is what made it boring for you, but not always having the specific one made it exciting for others. We have to get freaky with our rosters to pull off a win. So it’s exciting, and it doesn’t always work. It’s made arena and stuff quite fun when it was just a task before, much like you experience now.



  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    I can see how RPS would be boring for someone who already has everything because when you can play rock, paper and scissors at the same time it kinda loses it's appeal. But that's not the case for majority of players and I don't think the game should only cater to the top 1%.
    I don't see the point of playing a multiplayer game without the multiplayer part.
  • TVF
    30032 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    I can see how RPS would be boring for someone who already has everything because when you can play rock, paper and scissors at the same time it kinda loses it's appeal. But that's not the case for majority of players and I don't think the game should only cater to the top 1%.
    I don't see the point of playing a multiplayer game without the multiplayer part.

    Some people like PvE more.

    Also, some people like TW/GAC more.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Nikoms565
    14213 posts Member
    edited July 22
    th3evo wrote: »
    I can see how RPS would be boring for someone who already has everything because when you can play rock, paper and scissors at the same time it kinda loses it's appeal. But that's not the case for majority of players and I don't think the game should only cater to the top 1%.

    It doesn't only cater to the top 1%. One could argue that the fact that the meta has been very open and diverse for the past several months is, in fact, proof that it doesn't.

    Many would argue (and rightfully so), that the game has to cater to the top 1%, at least some of the time. Whether that 1% are spenders or not (hint: there are 8+ million GP players that are f2p and always have been).
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    I can see how RPS would be boring for someone who already has everything because when you can play rock, paper and scissors at the same time it kinda loses it's appeal. But that's not the case for majority of players and I don't think the game should only cater to the top 1%.
    I don't see the point of playing a multiplayer game without the multiplayer part.

    Some people like PvE more.

    Also, some people like TW/GAC more.

    Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the multiplayer part of my comment?
  • Crayons wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    Crayons wrote: »
    There was a time where every single toon in arena was the same. You enter arena and all three battles were the same choice, no matter how many times you refreshed. We all hated it. No individuality. No choice.
    That’s the bit I think is false - and the beauty is, because I know some people didn’t hate it, it is by definition false to claim we all hated it.


    Fair. But his post required that information to be valid.

    However to the contrary, having been part of these forums, the game, and the wider community in general since Nov 2016, I am safe in my post that the majority, though I will now accept not all, players did not enjoy the stagnation, and have been enjoying the recent liberation of personal choice.
    Of course, what constitutes enjoyment is different for different people.

    I’ve stated before I enjoy the rewards more than the process, so anything that makes it tougher for people with less developed rosters than me to contest those rewards with me, I’m going to like.

    Since I’ve been playing and earning top end arena rewards (I didn’t really crack top 20 til Traya) there have been 3 types of meta I’ve seen:

    1) hard-to-get characters, mods not especially important.
    This includes Traya, JKR, GAS. These were monotonous as you rarely if ever lost a mirror match once you knew the best strategy, but the exclusivity of the characters meant that there wasn’t a horde of people snapping at your heels.

    2) hard-to-get characters, mods extremely important
    This was the DR / Malak meta for me. I didn’t get Malak first time, which left me struggling in squad arena for months. And even when I got him, some people were still extremely hard to beat because of their superior mods.

    3) RPS
    This is what we have now, and I personally find it dull. Yes I can fight a JML team, followed by SLKR, followed by SEE, and I’d swap to the hard counter each time - but the battles themselves were pretty much full auto. Certainly after a handful of moves you could perfectly safely press auto.

    Of those 3 options, my preference remains #1, and I’m crossing my fingers that this is what JMK/CAT brings.

    And I’m thinking that being able to bring a counter is what made it boring for you, but not always having the specific one made it exciting for others. We have to get freaky with our rosters to pull off a win. So it’s exciting, and it doesn’t always work. It’s made arena and stuff quite fun when it was just a task before, much like you experience now.



    So…. Kind of like we have right now? (If we don’t have Kenobi/CAT)
  • th3evo
    288 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    I can see how RPS would be boring for someone who already has everything because when you can play rock, paper and scissors at the same time it kinda loses it's appeal. But that's not the case for majority of players and I don't think the game should only cater to the top 1%.

    It doesn't only cater to the top 1%. One could argue that the fact that the meta has been very open and diverse for the past several months is, in fact, proof that it doesn't.

    Many would argue (and rightfully so), that the game has to cater to the top 1%, at least some of the time. Whether that 1% are spenders or not (hint: there are 8+ million GP players that are f2p and always have been).

    I agree with your comment. I don't know why you think I don't. I just said that I understand why someone like DarjeloSalas wouldn't enjoy RPS. But the rest of us average players (probably) prefer RPS that we currently have. Sometimes catering to the top 1% is also fine.
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