[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

Replies

  • Ultra wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If Crumb's post and the podcast are all the replies we're getting, then I'm not sure I've learned anything new since the announcement. And if that is the only response we're getting, bummer.

    Kyno, you keep repeating answers we've already heard. The problem is that their answer is not good enough, not that we haven't seen it. Those same words could be used to justify a nerf to GLs and a boost to the counters. We have not seen, because they have not shared, anything tangible to back up their claims. And many of us don't trust them because their responses often seem detached from our experience as players.

    This is why I'm so bothered by them muzzling these supposedly prominent play testers. If every die hard SWGOH player's favorite content creator could say, "I've seen these changes implemented on the test server. I know it sounds like a lot, but trust me, it won't be as bad as it sounds." Then you wouldn't have a community uproar. But from a group that thought cPit 1.0 was acceptable? Well I have no faith in them.

    If you think they are dishonest, no answers will ever be enough. They are not likely to share direct values or details.

    I'm not sure of a single game that has a beta program and allows those players to speak about the testing done. They dont need your faith.

    MSF did it with the ISO-8 testing and everything worked out just fine. Their CC's even made videos with "beta footage" to showcase what was to come. They have done this twice. CG cant do that because of "reasons".

    The fact of the matter is that the "beta testers" (if they even exist) do not have the trust of the community as evidenced by the original CPIT. Could they have said something to CG about how bad the original CPIT was, but CG went ahead with their plan, as they almost always do, sure, but we don't know that because we don't hear from them. Allowing some of the biggest CC's for this game to be in the beta test and relay their feedback to the community would go a loooooog way.

    As far as the gear crunch, Crumb said on that podcast last night, is the same thing that CG has said in the past..."We are looking into it".....I am so sick of that phrase because it means nothing when nothing happens.....and when it does, we get sold Kryotechs as a gear crunch easement......

    Beta testers can be against some changes (like CPit 1.0, character nerfs) but what they say is considered as feedback and CG can choose to listen or ignore it at their discretion, I don't think its fair to blame beta testers as we don't know what feedback they gave CG, nor do we know if CG listened or not

    Maybe the actual CPit 1.0 was much worse than we are aware of

    Since nobody knows who the beta testers are, I think you're making very bold claims by claiming they don't have the community's best interests

    Perhaps this still speaks more to CG than their beta testers, but isn’t the point of beta testing to do multiple tests? Not to just get a “much worse” CPit Beta, say it’s bad, then have them change it to CPit 1.0 and release it and not test if it’s still bad?
  • Nauros
    4785 posts Member
    Are you meaning to have the Executor not beatable by anything else? That's what I understand when I see it. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's not healthy to have anything that cannot be beaten by anything else.

    That's exactly how they see it. It'll be the new ship meta.

    Yep, new ship meta consisting of a single fleet. And not a word on all that is troubling ships except for that they will maybe look at rebalancing crewless ship (which should happen automatically whenever there is new progression). No ship mods, keeping the rigid and limiting pilot system, no new places to actually use ships, just a new toy to buy if we want to keep our crystal income...
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If Crumb's post and the podcast are all the replies we're getting, then I'm not sure I've learned anything new since the announcement. And if that is the only response we're getting, bummer.

    Kyno, you keep repeating answers we've already heard. The problem is that their answer is not good enough, not that we haven't seen it. Those same words could be used to justify a nerf to GLs and a boost to the counters. We have not seen, because they have not shared, anything tangible to back up their claims. And many of us don't trust them because their responses often seem detached from our experience as players.

    This is why I'm so bothered by them muzzling these supposedly prominent play testers. If every die hard SWGOH player's favorite content creator could say, "I've seen these changes implemented on the test server. I know it sounds like a lot, but trust me, it won't be as bad as it sounds." Then you wouldn't have a community uproar. But from a group that thought cPit 1.0 was acceptable? Well I have no faith in them.

    If you think they are dishonest, no answers will ever be enough. They are not likely to share direct values or details.

    I'm not sure of a single game that has a beta program and allows those players to speak about the testing done. They dont need your faith.

    MSF did it with the ISO-8 testing and everything worked out just fine. Their CC's even made videos with "beta footage" to showcase what was to come. They have done this twice. CG cant do that because of "reasons".

    The fact of the matter is that the "beta testers" (if they even exist) do not have the trust of the community as evidenced by the original CPIT. Could they have said something to CG about how bad the original CPIT was, but CG went ahead with their plan, as they almost always do, sure, but we don't know that because we don't hear from them. Allowing some of the biggest CC's for this game to be in the beta test and relay their feedback to the community would go a loooooog way.

    As far as the gear crunch, Crumb said on that podcast last night, is the same thing that CG has said in the past..."We are looking into it".....I am so sick of that phrase because it means nothing when nothing happens.....and when it does, we get sold Kryotechs as a gear crunch easement......

    CG did do it, and if i recall for a long time people complained about certain people getting and sharing special access and leaks. So it's not that they can do it and choose not to. They had to cancel the program and rebuild it, for reasons.

    Correct you will not be privy to communication between the dev teams and testers, again, i think this is normal in any beta situation.

    Yes you can sight a few limited examples of open beta or times where beta programs have been given permission, but there are the exceptions not the rule.
  • Ultra
    8516 posts Moderator
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    If Crumb's post and the podcast are all the replies we're getting, then I'm not sure I've learned anything new since the announcement. And if that is the only response we're getting, bummer.

    Kyno, you keep repeating answers we've already heard. The problem is that their answer is not good enough, not that we haven't seen it. Those same words could be used to justify a nerf to GLs and a boost to the counters. We have not seen, because they have not shared, anything tangible to back up their claims. And many of us don't trust them because their responses often seem detached from our experience as players.

    This is why I'm so bothered by them muzzling these supposedly prominent play testers. If every die hard SWGOH player's favorite content creator could say, "I've seen these changes implemented on the test server. I know it sounds like a lot, but trust me, it won't be as bad as it sounds." Then you wouldn't have a community uproar. But from a group that thought cPit 1.0 was acceptable? Well I have no faith in them.

    If you think they are dishonest, no answers will ever be enough. They are not likely to share direct values or details.

    I'm not sure of a single game that has a beta program and allows those players to speak about the testing done. They dont need your faith.

    MSF did it with the ISO-8 testing and everything worked out just fine. Their CC's even made videos with "beta footage" to showcase what was to come. They have done this twice. CG cant do that because of "reasons".

    The fact of the matter is that the "beta testers" (if they even exist) do not have the trust of the community as evidenced by the original CPIT. Could they have said something to CG about how bad the original CPIT was, but CG went ahead with their plan, as they almost always do, sure, but we don't know that because we don't hear from them. Allowing some of the biggest CC's for this game to be in the beta test and relay their feedback to the community would go a loooooog way.

    As far as the gear crunch, Crumb said on that podcast last night, is the same thing that CG has said in the past..."We are looking into it".....I am so sick of that phrase because it means nothing when nothing happens.....and when it does, we get sold Kryotechs as a gear crunch easement......

    Beta testers can be against some changes (like CPit 1.0, character nerfs) but what they say is considered as feedback and CG can choose to listen or ignore it at their discretion, I don't think its fair to blame beta testers as we don't know what feedback they gave CG, nor do we know if CG listened or not

    Maybe the actual CPit 1.0 was much worse than we are aware of

    Since nobody knows who the beta testers are, I think you're making very bold claims by claiming they don't have the community's best interests

    Perhaps this still speaks more to CG than their beta testers, but isn’t the point of beta testing to do multiple tests? Not to just get a “much worse” CPit Beta, say it’s bad, then have them change it to CPit 1.0 and release it and not test if it’s still bad?

    I'm not part of Beta so idk anything about it but my point is that we shouldn't speak what goes on and doesn't in beta and what they are saying without being part of it
  • Doja and I spent most of the weekend gathering sentiment and feedback regarding the Road Ahead. Below are some of the most recurring comments we noticed, and hopefully the following responses will help clarify some of the questions and concerns you have.

    We also appreciate the vast majority of you separating the video format from the news contained within the message. Hopefully we can deliver more videos in the future and work toward expanding the ways we interact with the SWGoH community.

    Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.

    GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.

    Difficulty of Events Post-Character Changes:

    We are reviewing existing Journey Guide events for any unintentional side effects. Our goal is to keep these events around the same level of difficulty as before.

    Three of the characters had specific updates to their kits to maintain the character’s utility as a high-end unit in other areas of the game, such as PvE events, etc. General Skywalker, for example, had things added to his kit because we wanted to offset the changes and make sure he remained highly effective - especially when leading a full 501st squad - in other areas of the game.

    Dark Trooper:

    We noticed some confusion surrounding Dark Trooper and wanted to clarify that DT is not getting any direct changes to its kit. Rather, the changes to Sith Eternal Emperor reduce Dark Trooper’s effectiveness in this matchup and that is why we specifically decided to return resources for Dark Trooper.

    Relic 9 Timing:

    Relic 9 is further out and will be coming to the game after the character changes are implemented, not before. We’ll share more details on R9 as it gets closer. Having said that, the character changes needed to happen before R9, otherwise the underlying issues surrounding defense being ignored would only be exasperated.

    Razor Crest Shards and Conquest 7:

    More details on obtaining Razor Crest shards will be coming soon. As far as Conquest 7 (and the concern of no August Conquest), as mentioned in the video, Conquest 7 will experience a slight delay. Three Conquests over the next three-ish months is still the plan. This should result in little to no interference with the timeline of playing through the next three Conquests and reaping the resulting rewards of your efforts there.

    Executor Requirements:

    We saw a lot of discussion surrounding the requirements for Executor and it’s place in the fleet meta. It is our intention that the Executor will be commensurate in power to the difficulty involved in acquiring it.

    ---

    I hope this response sheds some light on our perspective. We will continue to escalate your feedback to the team and be here to answer as many questions as possible.

    Why doesn’t it matter to CG that many of us invested (bought) GAS and JKL. We made these investments knowing these characters are very good. Most of us would NEVER have gone this route if we knew CG would confiscate our property (eliminating the toons key abilities). In my opinion CG made implied promises that the toons we acquire/buy would remain the same (or get buffed ) but not go backwards! CG has now broken this promise and I don’t know how you can ever trust them again.
    For me, the design of my roster is now just wrong. GLs are already too powerful and as they get even more powerful this game will lose much of its fun. Luke Skywalker was the underdog, yet he defeated the empire. The underdog in SWGOH will have very little to no chance given the nerfs on the horizon.
    This is a sad day for the game.
  • MaruMaru
    2353 posts Member
    Starslayer wrote: »
    thanos_123 wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    khdelboy wrote: »
    So what happens if you and your opponent put every GL on defence in GAC?

    The match would end up as a stalement, and the winner gets the glory if they have a high GP. Which is a terrible idea to a dull format. I’ll just not bother with GAC anymore.

    I would urge you all to think about dropping those nerfs.

    There are 7 spots in the front line (at least in my division) and 6 GLs, the winner will be the one who clears the remaining fight better. Still not much fun, but better than a dumb GP check.
    Do you think people would actually do this?

    I play GAC to reach Kyber. If I begin setting all my GLs on defence, I could win all 12 matches but get nowhere near Kyber.

    I don’t think this is something that many players will do, to be honest.

    Of couse it happens and of course you can reach kyber this way... thats why COUNTERS existed!

    People think that non-gl counters won’t work anymore, that’s the starting point. Let’s say they’re right.
    So they think the best strat is to put all your GLs on D as long as you have more than the opponent. Then, if your opponent put 1 gl on each of his front row, you won’t pass the front row because non-gls counters don’t work anymore (initial statement) and you don’t have any left to beat them.
    So with this strategy, if non-GLs counters don’t work anymore, you’ll win your matchs but won’t reach kyber, because you won’t score enough points even if you stay undefeated.

    Going from here, how does one consistently have the gl count advantage? It's not random at all, because it depends on top x. From experience I can tell you the advantage is on the players that mostly went for GLs, but not much beyond that. This ensures the bottom portion of their top X isn't riddled with many theorycraft or (teams the player likes) toons. I know this is the case, because I'm on the theorycraft side and I've always at the best got matched with same amount of gls to more gls than mine...which has never been a problem until now.

    The more gl oriented a roster is raised, the more likely they are to be matched with less gl oriented rosters (=less gl count) they'll get matched. Given this new paradigm, newer rosters raised under this paradigm will have advantage if they are played with GLs to defense race.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Ahnald has a completely F2P account that’s 9 months old and has only 2 toons at R5. He has 3 or 4 more at G12 and the rest are scattered gear levels. He said it’ll be at least a couple
    More months before he will have a full team of g13 characters. So to get enough toons for those next level of daily challenges, it would take 18-24 months to get enough toons for those levels. You mean after 2 years players shouldn’t have access to relief from the G8 through g11 gear crunch?

    At what GP?

    Also, if there is a place to make it easier to get past a punch point, those will likely be added to a planned farming guide and be happening quicker than the estimate there. Also, once you hit one team, it makes getting the rest of the toons get there quicker, which is something they would need to balance in a situation like this.

    Not saying it's not a possibility, but it's not "oh just do this" simple, like you say it is.

    We also dont know where they really want that line to be. I suspect it's more GP than time based, but that is a guess, and I suspect Conquest will be used,as it's new and has a threshold.
  • Why doesn’t it matter to CG that many of us invested (bought) GAS and JKL. We made these investments knowing these characters are very good. Most of us would NEVER have gone this route if we knew CG would confiscate our property (eliminating the toons key abilities). In my opinion CG made implied promises that the toons we acquire/buy would remain the same (or get buffed ) but not go backwards! CG has now broken this promise and I don’t know how you can ever trust them again.
    For me, the design of my roster is now just wrong. GLs are already too powerful and as they get even more powerful this game will lose much of its fun. Luke Skywalker was the underdog, yet he defeated the empire. The underdog in SWGOH will have very little to no chance given the nerfs on the horizon.
    This is a sad day for the game.

    See those specific characters allowed small spenders like us, but who cares about F2P and small spenders lol, to farm GLs at a an enjoyable pace while enjoying the game and being sorta competitive in our bracket.....clearly you see what the problem is there.

  • Starslayer
    1328 posts Member
    CmdrS0l0 wrote: »
    So I’m still a little confused. Will they be changing the GAC matchups to now only have players with GLs match up against other players with GLs? Seems a little unfair if you have a GL player match up against a non-GL player even though their GP might be comparable?

    You chose to relic’d 15 good characters
    I chose to relic’d 14 meh characters in order to relic a great one

    We both made strategic choices. Now, let’s fight.

    The only issue is imo: did you specifically chose to relic 5 of those 15 characters in order to beat my great one and have no other uses for them at this relic level ? Then, if your characters are now strongly nerfed and you can’t do it anymore (what we cannot say for sure at this time, let’s wait until it’s in the game to see if it’s now impossible), offering to devolve your characters seem fair but open a door that they may not want to open. Not fully open, they nudged it a bit.
  • Nauros
    4785 posts Member
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Any test program was/is/has always been under NDAs.

    Testing done by prominent members of the community is good for the community. No matter what they can say to the community.

    You do understand how shadily corporate that sounds when you are venturing into the realm of Non Disclosure Agreements. That suggests that C.G. has something negative to hide from us they do not want getting out.

    That one is actually fair, I think. Not having NDAs would lead to information getting disseminated in an uncontrolled way, and some people would get an advantage over others. Once real money gets involved, things could get troublesome.
    That said, there could be at least some officially sanctioned information coming from the testers.
  • AlexanderG
    1167 posts Member
    don't bother you guys, EA doesn't give a "****" about losing f2p players. f2p don't spend money.

    I'm not sure it's helpful to discuss thus as a FTP issue - I'd imagine the majority of GLs are owned by FTP players.

    What is egregious is taking some of the best characters in the game (that aren't quite GL level) nerf them for dubious reasons. Thrawn for example has been in the game since 2017 - I'm not aware of any previous issues with his kit.

    The requirements for GAS and JML alone should preserve them from being nerfed - they are already hard to acquire. And whether it's, time, money or both, those investments should be respected.
  • SerylT2
    146 posts Member
    edited July 27
    Nauros wrote: »
    That one is actually fair, I think. Not having NDAs would lead to information getting disseminated in an uncontrolled way, and some people would get an advantage over others. Once real money gets involved, things could get troublesome.
    That said, there could be at least some officially sanctioned information coming from the testers.

    It is a very weak excuse as open Beta testing is extremely common in todays world of gaming. You can of course look across the field of the gaming industry at the divide between open and NDA beta testing.. and see the same divide on companies that care what players think.. and which companies do not.

  • SerylT2 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Any test program was/is/has always been under NDAs.

    Testing done by prominent members of the community is good for the community. No matter what they can say to the community.

    You do understand how shadily corporate that sounds when you are venturing into the realm of Non Disclosure Agreements. That suggests that C.G. has something negative to hide from us they do not want getting out.

    Or, they don’t want people leaking the next character reveal/requirements/kit preemptively. Or worse, leaking info for a new Star Wars piece of content (ie Crosshair not coming).

    NDA’s get a bad rap, for some good reasons, but they’re pretty common in corporations to keep new releases a secret.
  • SerylT2
    146 posts Member
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Or, they don’t want people leaking the next character reveal/requirements/kit preemptively. Or worse, leaking info for a new Star Wars piece of content (ie Crosshair not coming).

    NDA’s get a bad rap, for some good reasons, but they’re pretty common in corporations to keep new releases a secret.

    That is nonsense and you know it. There is no reason why BETA testers would not be allowed at THIS point to disclose that information.. since it is technically already disclosed to the public. All the testers would have to do now is inform us of their gameplay experiences. I mean you do know you can label some information confidential and some information sharable to get the community the info they actually need without spoiling surprises? That is what good companies do.

  • Zanir
    333 posts Member
    edited July 27
    Forget BBQ Vader, if you want to keep your spot at the top of your fleet shards, you need the Executor. I can still cheese my way into top 20 with SEE in my squad arena. I take 1st or 2nd daily in FA. FA in my main source of crystals. Time to unlock Bando and relic some BHs.

    I have 1 GL and so far have only ever been matched with other players who have 1 GL. Typically it works out so we both place the GL on defense and if they had Rey, I could beat it with Vader. Unlocking more GLs doesn't guarantee me better GAC rewards, it just guarantees opponents with more GLs as well. GLs help in GeoTB, but guild growth in GeoTB is slow enough that if I put off getting a 2nd GL for a few more months, I'm not really hurting the guild. TW? 2nd place rewards are almost as good as 1st place, we could literally do nothing but set lvl1s on def and walk away with 2 zetas like it's nobody's business.

    I am no incentivized to work on relicing 15 toons that are either bad (Mace Windu, BKK) or hugely expensive (Bad Batch) in order to unlock a new GL. For the Executor, I will only need 4 new G13s. That's a much better investment.

    Thanks for helping me decide to keep ignoring 5 of the 6 GLs, CG, I'm doing just fine with one.
  • I’m curious how they can charge people money for something, and then devalue it without offering full refunds to players who invested in those characters. If I buy a Tesla, and then they half my battery life remotely just because they want the newest model to stand out…there would be a class action lawsuit, and BBB complaints. That should happen with EA too.

    In a sense, you sold people something and are now back peddling because you sold them something too good? It isn’t for the life of the game, it’s to get people to spend money for GL. If you want to have no defensive penetration characters going forward that’s your prerogative. I just don’t know how you can sell people goods, and not allow your customers to reap the benefit of investing in said goods?

    I myself am a spender in this game, a decent one at that. These changes won’t hurt me, but that doesn’t matter. I do support a class action against EA if these changes take place. I would hate to see my fellow players be taken advantage of by corporate greed.
  • SerylT2 wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Or, they don’t want people leaking the next character reveal/requirements/kit preemptively. Or worse, leaking info for a new Star Wars piece of content (ie Crosshair not coming).

    NDA’s get a bad rap, for some good reasons, but they’re pretty common in corporations to keep new releases a secret.

    That is nonsense and you know it. There is no reason why BETA testers would not be allowed at THIS point to disclose that information.. since it is technically already disclosed to the public. All the testers would have to do now is inform us of their gameplay experiences. I mean you do know you can label some information confidential and some information sharable to get the community the info they actually need without spoiling surprises? That is what good companies do.

    What information would you have them disclose at this point? CG’s already said what they want to change, what requirements they want to release, their reasoning… all a Beta Tester could add is stating they’re a Beta Tester and they tested it. Sharing their opinion on the final product just gives a face (digital or otherwise) on the statements CG’s already made, and judging by the reaction this move is generating I doubt they’d look forward to doing so.

    When the confidential information is the existance of the change, what information do you want shared? This is the Road Ahead, where CG announces things.
  • Allmight_1 wrote: »
    I’m curious how they can charge people money for something, and then devalue it without offering full refunds to players who invested in those characters. If I buy a Tesla, and then they half my battery life remotely just because they want the newest model to stand out…there would be a class action lawsuit, and BBB complaints. That should happen with EA too.

    In a sense, you sold people something and are now back peddling because you sold them something too good? It isn’t for the life of the game, it’s to get people to spend money for GL. If you want to have no defensive penetration characters going forward that’s your prerogative. I just don’t know how you can sell people goods, and not allow your customers to reap the benefit of investing in said goods?

    I myself am a spender in this game, a decent one at that. These changes won’t hurt me, but that doesn’t matter. I do support a class action against EA if these changes take place. I would hate to see my fellow players be taken advantage of by corporate greed.

    They technically sold you toon shards and crystals, not the actual character kit
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Any test program was/is/has always been under NDAs.

    Testing done by prominent members of the community is good for the community. No matter what they can say to the community.

    You do understand how shadily corporate that sounds when you are venturing into the realm of Non Disclosure Agreements. That suggests that C.G. has something negative to hide from us they do not want getting out.

    Not in the slightest, they are playing and using things not released as they test new things, they do not want them spreading information before its released, this is very common in beta programs. It's not about anything negative or shady, it's about keeping things from being know before it is time, for many reasons.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Nauros wrote: »
    SerylT2 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Any test program was/is/has always been under NDAs.

    Testing done by prominent members of the community is good for the community. No matter what they can say to the community.

    You do understand how shadily corporate that sounds when you are venturing into the realm of Non Disclosure Agreements. That suggests that C.G. has something negative to hide from us they do not want getting out.

    That one is actually fair, I think. Not having NDAs would lead to information getting disseminated in an uncontrolled way, and some people would get an advantage over others. Once real money gets involved, things could get troublesome.
    That said, there could be at least some officially sanctioned information coming from the testers.

    Agree, and there was talk of an open beta type system at one point, but that either didnt happen or was in a more limited fashion than a true open beta, during the release times of the major guild events.
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nick_74 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Looooki wrote: »
    Sooooo let's get this out of the way ...

    Has CG replied to any of the post yet ?
    Is Doja leaving CG ? Why the silence and crumb taking the lead ?
    When is the update dropping (Specific date)

    And I guess the most important question ??
    - what data is CG using to arrive at this conclusion in the road ahead ?

    Yes they have.

    No. Because 1 - he is the lead, 2 - a little bit of not our business, not being rude, just saying people have lives.

    No date yet.

    Testing on relic levels.
    I Can understand that you need to do some changes but I don’t get the many of the nerfs like Thrawn and C 3po, how can this be related to relic levels?

    Also if you read the comment it pretty clear that relic 9 is not wanted at this time especially since even the biggest whales are having a hard time reaching relic 8.

    If my personal income was depending of a game like this and I got such a massive negative feedback I would be very worried

    The defense ignoring and such is what is based on relic levels, some of the other changes were based on making/keeping GLs in the tip tier vs counters requiring lower investment (their words not me defending anything).

    There will always be conflict when it comes to pushing development and the pace that which it can happen. Just like good character levels, shouldn't high level relic be harder to get or take longer? (Not taling about the other pinch points along the way)

    The game is always dying, and each thing will always be the last straw. They look at the constructive feedback and they do their best to advocate for what they can when things like this happen. Unfortunately the player base is not always going to have the knowledge or wherewithal to gauge long term effects or future content/additions. Or the ability this may grant devs to make new toons at many levels more efficiently or possibly update older toons. This is not the players fault or anything like that, it's just the nature of being on the outside. I am also not saying this is right or the only way it could be. Or anything like that.

    Kyno nobody has issues with rebalancing due to interactions with defense. That’s fine. However based on crumbs posts and the RA video itself, it’s clear they’re doing this to also neutralize non GL counters. That’s not ok, especially when after over a hundred pages regarding SEE and troopers, posts about JML vs DR, etc all of it was deemed WAI and ok by the devs. They had given it the green light and people invested specifically for counters to GL’s. Now they’re actively taking that investment away.

    As for the gear crunch, sure the newest thing should be the hardest to obtain sure. Unfortunately there’s hasn’t been any alleviation from GEAR 8 gear crunches… when getting from g8 to G12 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G12 to G13 is still an insufferable grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from G13 to R7 is still a massive grind, more progression is not ok. When getting from R7 to R8 is a huge resource sink and only several months old, more progression is not ok. Getting from R8 to R9 is going to be a massive resource dump if R8 is any indication, and what’s more they keep forcing us to use the same relic materials all the way from R1 through R8. Every single piece is the same beyond R5. Carbonite boards, bronzium wiring, chromium transistors, heatsinks, electrium conductors, zimbiddles and of course the signal data’s….that’s just relic.

    Come on Kyno, I get you defending them as par the course but there’s nothing you can say to justify even more progression when G8 gear is still an issue 5 years into the game.

    I was specifically speaking to the player talking about intro of 9 when 8 is hard to get and expressed that, but that's for ignoring that and saying I am in any way defending anything about gear levels. Cheers.

    And I touched on that. R8 to R9 should still be difficult. Even getting to R8 should be tougher but any other mobile game in existence, even MSF with how money hungry and greedy they are have made gear progression easier as your time in the game goes on. Blue and purple gear? Used to be massive choke points like their G13 uniques and G15 currently are. Now? Purple gear is nothing. Getting to G12 is only bottlenecked by gold and training mats; which one will more available than the other, balancing it out over time.

    CG hasn’t done that. At all. They’ve actually made the grind from G8-g13 worse with the introduction of kyro techs. Another 2 gear pieces to farm under the guise of it “alleviating the stun gun crunch” lmao nope, still there! Just worse now.

    What you’re missing the point on even with the person you were talking to is that it’s not an issue of a several month old gear level being hard to obtain. It’s a 5 year old gear issue still being a massive choke point.

    I’m sorry but listening to crumb dance around the question regarding the gear economy in that podcast was the most disingenuous and maddening thing from that whole segment. He’s literally saying that they know how to get more gear to us but don’t want to because they don’t want to completely lose those bottlenecks at lower levels over time. Excuse me? I get keeping those bottlenecks in place so new accounts don’t just gear up in one week, but players that have been in the game for a year or two, let alone since day one, should not be unable to bring characters to G12 with little inconvenience given the bottlenecks still in place at G12, G12+, G13 and every relic level.

    But you are wrong, they have dealt with it "naturally" like they said they are sticking to, at the moment. That is why we have increased income of many pieces over time. Yes this was been fairly in line with the need, which keeps the pace where it is, but that is also needed. We have not slowed in any of these incomes which would be a sign of them not doing anything to address this.

    I am also disheartened by the direct statement that we will not see more of a distinct action to deal with gear (although I have been suspecting as such from the discussions I have had/seen), but I still think there are still possibilities for them to deal with this through existing game modes.

    I have not listened yet, but I get that, they still want a development cycle in the early stages like we had then.

    Also, their “natural” fixes haven’t done anything to specifically target gear crunches that are hindering us all. Crumb mentioned Conquest and GC’s….umm no that doesn’t guarantee even crunch gear rewarded when you have mk4 carbs and guns in the prize boxes and nerf the rewards as you progress rather than reward more. Same for GC’s as that’s more tuned for mod slicing materials.

    What natural things? The daily prize box? I’m sorry I think it’s been almost a month since I saw mk5 guns, mk3 cuffs or mk8 biotech as a prize from there.

    Kyro’s? That made the gear grind WORSE. Not better

    Raid rewards? The same tank rewards in both HAAT and HSTR? Mk6 thermals? Mk4 holodiscs. Mk10 and 11 weapontechs? To this day the best rewards are in the normal Rancor Raids. Crancor is a mixed bag because you could end up with G5 gear or something as great as fully crafted mk5 gun or kyro templates. However to this day I’ve gotten none of that. The best I got was fully crafted G12 gear like the mk12 blast armor.

    Where’s the natural help?



    How to actually fix it?

    Daily challenge rewards? Oh look a solution….

    Guaranteeing gear drops or upping the drop rates? I mean….that could work too.

    Reworking prize boxes in current game modes? That could work too

    There’s several ways for the to do it. They can do it. What they lack is will or the capacity

    How early does a player get r3 or r5? Having enough characters to do daily challenges doeant really sound like a later stage of a roster.

    What current prize boxes have an sort of real divide? Basically Conquest is the only one.

    There are not several ways that actually offer any divide, which is what they seem to be looking for.

    Ahnald has a completely F2P account that’s 9 months old and has only 2 toons at R5. He has 3 or 4 more at G12 and the rest are scattered gear levels. He said it’ll be at least a couple
    More months before he will have a full team of g13 characters. So to get enough toons for those next level of daily challenges, it would take 18-24 months to get enough toons for those levels. You mean after 2 years players shouldn’t have access to relief from the G8 through g11 gear crunch?

    At what GP?

    Also, if there is a place to make it easier to get past a punch point, those will likely be added to a planned farming guide and be happening quicker than the estimate there. Also, once you hit one team, it makes getting the rest of the toons get there quicker, which is something they would need to balance in a situation like this.

    Not saying it's not a possibility, but it's not "oh just do this" simple, like you say it is.

    We also dont know where they really want that line to be. I suspect it's more GP than time based, but that is a guess, and I suspect Conquest will be used,as it's new and has a threshold.

    Umm no that’s not true. For the daily challenges you need tanks, attackers and support/healers for each one respectively. A full team of 5 has a mixture of both. You need 15 toons to handle those challenges.

    Also I believe he is at 1 mil GP just about because he is specifically farming for SLKR, he only has KRU and Hux at R5. OGKylo, FOTP and FOSTP are G12. All others are G11 through G8 for FO. The rest of his roster I believe is around G9/10. That’s after almost a year with dedicated F2P farming. You mean to tell me he’s gonna get 15 toons to R3 by years end? Stahp. That’s him not spending a dime. Can others get there faster? Sure, if they spend. Which…isn’t there the point?

    We all know where CG wants the crunch to be at. This dancing around the question is old. And I mean OLD. That’s why I’m seeing people on here, including myself who spent a fair amount of money on this game go F2P over this. I’m glad. I sincerely hope this affects their bottom dollar enough where they finally wake up and cut the nonsense already.

    I’m not going to pay my hard earned money on a game where my monetary and in game investments are trivialized by arbitrary nonsense and constant flip flopping policy on their end. I can’t tell you how happy I am that I waited to splurge on my 4th GL to see what Lord Vader had in store for us. Saved myself quite a bit of coin.

    I am aware how they work, how many attackers are in the SLKR requirements, and I dont think they have a requirement on the number of toons, but they could add that.

    So once you break open that door, you are accelerating farming right there at that point. Again, just saying those in particular are not as simple as you make it seem, but we can move on.
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