Abusing arena with discord

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  • Options
    chuckrambo wrote: »
    Shard chats make everyone's clinb easier and cost everyone fewer crystals in refreshes. This just seems like 'good communication' and 'efficiency,' not 'abuse,' maybe try having some perspective and play nice? It's just unnecessary and the most inefficient odd flex to climb 4+ hours before your PO anyway.

    It makes the climb easier if you are in the shard chat, but not necessarily "everyone's climb".

    If you are on the hit list then you can keep refreshing as much as you like but will get pulled back around your PO.

    Perhaps perspective from other angles is needed?

    Shard chats work because they need to limit their members and create a core - whether the other players 'play nice' or not does not usually matter.

    My experience of any limitations placed on shard chats are usually at a specific payout not at the chat as a whole. Yeah if you share a payout with five other people in your shard who are in the chat and you’re not, it’s likely hard to get in the chat.

    Then again, most people who are severely against chats, in my experience, have never really tried to work with their chat or get into their chat. Nor do they recognize the benefits of the chat even to them. Your climb is easier as a non chat member because 50+ people are agreeing to be punching bags for 75-90% of the day depending on the chat. Yes, if you get noticed the chat can turn on you but that’s when your individual diplomacy comes into play.

    Do you want to take on chat alone or try to work with it? The more stubborn you are the harder your time.
  • Options
    CG has refused to comment on this. They could change the ToS so it's no longer a problem. But effort.
    It clearly states NO ANTI COMPETITIVE BEHAVIOR. Cooperative behavior is the opposite of Competitive behavior. Locking people out for ~30 minutes in coordinated hits to prevent any non-shard mafia players from moving during payout is anti-competitive behavior. Using diplomacy to determine payout order is anti-competitive behavior. Players (and by extension shard mafias) do NOT own their shards.

    BuT iTs In DiScOrD wHiCh Cg CaNt ReGuLaTe...
    Again wrong, and let's use examples.
    Companies utilize their Code of Ethics as a firing mechanic all the time. John Doe makes a racist slur on twitter or on a live video at the bar on Saturday night. John's boss fires him Monday morning for an Ethics violation. It is irrelevant that the behavior occurred off company property and time. The rule applies universally.
    Another example. A high school football coach steals another team's playbook while out at the grocery store. Even though this occurs off school property, the local officials can declare that his team forfeits the game for violating the athletic association's rules. Again, location is irrelevant. Rules are rules.

    We have several solutions to this problem.
    Remove the anti-competitive behavior language because you don't enforce it.
    Switch arena to a points based system rather than a simple ladder.
    Allow for shard migration every 6 months to a shard of similar or older age to prevent advantages.
    Actually enforce the ToS as stated and start punishing the anti-competitive behavior.

    What will actually happen:
    Keyboard warrior shard mafia dons will make snarky replies that fail to address the points laid out above.
  • Options
    Remove the anti-competitive behavior language because you don't enforce it.

    Great idea. I vote for that one.
  • Options
    Your solutions to the “problem” work against the best interest of the shard as a whole or don’t address the issue.

    More competition means more refreshes and less crystals for everyone including yourself. Unless you’ve specifically done something to anger the shard. Then maybe you’ll need to spend less on refreshes.

    Targeting individuals is so rarely done by most shards because it works against the goal of the shard for these reasons.

    1) it takes coordination and the secondary goal of chats is to spend less time worrying about arena
    2) it can cost crystals if you aren’t the max jump or if the individual hitting you isn’t in their climb window. The primary goal of chats is to maximize crystals.

    I think those not in chats think all chat members only hit non chat members. This is just false. The majority of people I hit in my climb from 50-70 to 1st are other chat members. The number of people on my chats targeting list? Zero.
  • th3evo
    358 posts Member
    Options
    CG has refused to comment on this. They could change the ToS so it's no longer a problem. But effort.
    It clearly states NO ANTI COMPETITIVE BEHAVIOR. Cooperative behavior is the opposite of Competitive behavior. Locking people out for ~30 minutes in coordinated hits to prevent any non-shard mafia players from moving during payout is anti-competitive behavior. Using diplomacy to determine payout order is anti-competitive behavior. Players (and by extension shard mafias) do NOT own their shards.

    BuT iTs In DiScOrD wHiCh Cg CaNt ReGuLaTe...
    Again wrong, and let's use examples.
    Companies utilize their Code of Ethics as a firing mechanic all the time. John Doe makes a racist slur on twitter or on a live video at the bar on Saturday night. John's boss fires him Monday morning for an Ethics violation. It is irrelevant that the behavior occurred off company property and time. The rule applies universally.
    Another example. A high school football coach steals another team's playbook while out at the grocery store. Even though this occurs off school property, the local officials can declare that his team forfeits the game for violating the athletic association's rules. Again, location is irrelevant. Rules are rules.

    We have several solutions to this problem.
    Remove the anti-competitive behavior language because you don't enforce it.
    Switch arena to a points based system rather than a simple ladder.
    Allow for shard migration every 6 months to a shard of similar or older age to prevent advantages.
    Actually enforce the ToS as stated and start punishing the anti-competitive behavior.

    What will actually happen:
    Keyboard warrior shard mafia dons will make snarky replies that fail to address the points laid out above.

    Both of your examples are bad because they only use individuals and require proof.
    How would CG enforce their ToS? Even if CG knows there are shard chats how would they know who are the members? There is no link between your discord and the game.
    Discord chats are not public and even if someone snitches it can't be enforcable. Why? Because there is no way for CG to link and verify the identity of a discord user and their in-game account. Even if someone states their allycode in the discord chat CG can't trust that.

    I would welcome some (positive) changes to squad/fleet arena. At this point in game it's pretty much just an activity check. It's not really about competition anymore - Grand Arena is much better.
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    BuT iTs In DiScOrD wHiCh Cg CaNt ReGuLaTe...

    Actually enforce the ToS as stated and start punishing the anti-competitive behavior.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    7zyfqrez3p1r.jpeg
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  • Options
    Hello.

    Faced with a problem where >20 persons joined discord chanel and cooperate to give each other good rewards by nerfing their squads and to not give others by attacking them in PO time.

    I'll try to explain. Sorry for my English.

    For example, you took 2 place in your PO time, they don't attack you from 5-3, they attack you only from 6+ to not give you a good reward and they attack you again from a lower position to put you down and to pass one of theirs.

    Can I do something against such coordination? Change somehow arena?
    I've donated thousands of dollars to start again with HDB, gears and shards, but their cooperation nullifies everything.

    Hi
    NikolayParaskiva
    I know your problem but What is your plan or what do you do in your arena
  • WoodDaversTrain
    20 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Options
    Shadow1989 wrote: »
    In my situation, im always first and people beg me to join their chat which i didn't want to. Let me explain why…

    Someone from that arena chat purposely snipe me before i get my slkr.

    I told them i open first position only if they kick the bugger sniper out. I left the chat as all of them are rude, even unapologetic about the sniping.

    Till now, two months later, im still unbeatable. Rofl.

    I agree with @SithVicious - that will probably not work out for you in the long run. I understand your frustration and why you would want to take that stance; but if you p*$s them all off now and burn every bridge in sight, then as soon as they all get their own GLs you will be Public Enemy #1 and may never see the Top 20 again.

    IMO, it's unreasonable for you to expect them to boot someone in the chat for sniping someone that isn't (or wasn't) in the chat. Maybe there was a reason he sniped you? Do you share a payout? Or had you maybe sniped him during his payout previously, even without knowing it? Regardless, do yourself a favor: get off your high horse and try to make amends if it's not too late.
    Hello.

    Faced with a problem where >20 persons joined discord chanel and cooperate to give each other good rewards by nerfing their squads and to not give others by attacking them in PO time.

    The reality of the situation is that - intended or not - the format of arena payouts makes it more strategic to cooperate than to be a thorn in people's sides, especially at the top. If you've proven an ability to consistently hit top 10, then I'd be surprised if they haven't already invited you. If you're being obstinate about not joining, or especially if you're hitting other people during their payout hours when you're nowhere near yours, that's why they're targeting you. If you weren't offending anyone, you wouldn't be having so much trouble.

    Don't follow @Shadow1989 's advice. You'll only end up becoming a permanent pariah. If you don't want to join the shard chat, I agree you should make your own channel with RotBot, but instead of using it to annoy everyone, make sure you don't hit people during payout or climb. If you're not a problem, maybe they'll leave you alone. If you want to get reciprocity, so they know your payout and don't hit you when it hurts, just join the darn chat.
    Post edited by WoodDaversTrain on
  • WoodDaversTrain
    20 posts Member
    edited August 2021
    Options
    CG has refused to comment on this. They could change the ToS so it's no longer a problem. But effort.
    It clearly states NO ANTI COMPETITIVE BEHAVIOR. Cooperative behavior is the opposite of Competitive behavior.

    ...

    We have several solutions to this problem.
    Remove the anti-competitive behavior language because you don't enforce it.
    Switch arena to a points based system rather than a simple ladder.
    Allow for shard migration every 6 months to a shard of similar or older age to prevent advantages.
    Actually enforce the ToS as stated and start punishing the anti-competitive behavior.

    Actually, I disagree that cooperation is necessarily anti-competitive. Example: teams in competitive racing. Do you think NASCAR and Formula 1 are not enforcing competition because they allow teams of drivers/racers?
    (If you do, that's fine. Your opinion is yours and other may agree too; but it's not the only opinion.)

    Anyway, some of your ideas might possibly help and I myself would like the ability to switch shards too, but I doubt it's gonna' happen.

    The only sure-fire way I can think of to easily eliminate shard chats and cooperation, would be to eliminate rotating payouts and make it one single daily payout per shard. But that would create other problems (lower total rewards for everyone) and disparities (favors people who happen to be able to play in the hour before payout).

    Nothing is perfect, and ultimately I don't have a huge problem with what's in place now - just hope you're lucky enough to be in a less competitive shard or one with a good (i.e., not toxic) shard chat. Toxic shard chats do exist, but I agree with Drathuk916 - I don't think they're the norm, but definitely can make life hell if you find yourself in that boat. That and potential leveling of competition in general are why I would support the ability to switch shards (with limits similar to changing payout times).
  • Options
    Shadow1989 wrote: »
    In my situation, im always first and people beg me to join their chat which i didn't want to. Let me explain why…

    Someone from that arena chat purposely snipe me before i get my slkr.

    I told them i open first position only if they kick the bugger sniper out. I left the chat as all of them are rude, even unapologetic about the sniping.

    Till now, two months later, im still unbeatable. Rofl.

    I agree with @SithVicious - that will probably not work out for you in the long run. I understand your frustration and why you would want to take that stance; but if you p*$s them all off now and burn every bridge in sight, then as soon as they all get their own GLs you will be Public Enemy #1 and may never see the Top 20 again.

    IMO, it's unreasonable for you to expect them to boot someone in the chat for sniping someone that isn't (or wasn't) in the chat. Maybe there was a reason he sniped you? Do you share a payout? Or had you maybe sniped him during his payout previously, even without knowing it? Regardless, do yourself a favor: get off your high horse and try to make amends if it's not too late.
    Hello.

    Faced with a problem where >20 persons joined discord chanel and cooperate to give each other good rewards by nerfing their squads and to not give others by attacking them in PO time.

    The reality of the situation is that - intended or not - the format of arena payouts makes it more strategic to cooperate than to be a thorn in people's sides, especially at the top. If you've proven an ability to consistently hit top 10, then I'd be surprised if they haven't already invited you. If you're being obstinate about not joining, or especially if you're hitting other people during their payout hours when you're nowhere near yours, that's why they're targeting you. If you weren't offending anyone, you wouldn't be having so much trouble.

    Don't follow @Shadow1989 's advice. You'll only end up becoming a permanent pariah. If you don't want to join the shard chat, I agree you should make your own channel with RotBot, but instead of using it to annoy everyone, make sure you don't hit people during payout or climb. If you're not a problem, maybe they'll leave you alone. If you want to get reciprocity, so they know your payout and don't hit you when it hurts, just join the darn chat.

    He said he snipe me on purpose to get my attention.
    Hello… no one gave me a invite to the chat when i reached top 10,

    U want to sniped me to get my attention? I cant accept it, you are showing me disrespect. How about be nice and send a invite before sniping me.

    I can only say, go f yourselves, all of you. If they had not been an A hole, i would have shared the payout.

    That being said, unless you are a kraken like myself, getting slkr in 2-3 weeks, dont go around doing what i do :)

    Like i said previously, 5-10 gl not an issue for me in this relatively new shard and im not in need of crystals




  • Options
    Shard chats make everyone's clinb easier and cost everyone fewer crystals in refreshes. This just seems like 'good communication' and 'efficiency,' not 'abuse,' maybe try having some perspective and play nice? It's just unnecessary and the most inefficient odd flex to climb 4+ hours before your PO anyway.

    Not everyone, just for people in chat. It's abuse and they should be banned.
  • Options
    Shard chats make everyone's clinb easier and cost everyone fewer crystals in refreshes. This just seems like 'good communication' and 'efficiency,' not 'abuse,' maybe try having some perspective and play nice? It's just unnecessary and the most inefficient odd flex to climb 4+ hours before your PO anyway.

    Not everyone, just for people in chat. It's abuse and they should be banned.
    If CG followed your advice they would be banning a huge chunk of the player base and almost everyone who spends.

    Time to work on your diplomacy skills.
  • Nihion
    3340 posts Member
    Options
    If you’re shard chat won’t let you in, just make a second one with all the people that they’ve pushed out. Then slowly pick away at their members (if they’re really that mean, the group is bound to have weaknesses) and you’ll soon be the only one left. Be a more forgiving and inviting shard chat than they were, and problem solved. If you’re not willing to put in the work and coordination that the shard chat puts in every day, then maybe you don’t deserve a top spot.
  • Options
    Shadow1989 wrote: »
    Whale harder

    I followed your advice ovxbk8uh68a2.png
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