TW MM and defensive placements [MERGE] 10-5-21

Replies

  • strafeSS
    166 posts Member
    edited October 6
    49 teams per zone is about as much fun as a colonoscopy.

    And two recent changes are fighting each other. The nerf to non GL counters and a MM algorithm that weighs in losses. Those two don’t work together because it is going to imbalance # of GLs of opponents.
  • strafeSS wrote: »
    49 teams per zone is about as much fun as a colonoscopy.

    And two recent changes are fighting each other. The nerf to non GL counters and a MM algorithm that weighs in losses. Those two don’t work together because it is going to imbalance # of GLs of opponents.

    I LOVE the increase....let's make it epic...just give us time to run it and keep the slot counts consistent per division.
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    This is completely unfair.
    We are up against a guild who are 3 divisions higher then us. So why is this being allowed??
    Please do not delete this as this is not fair.
    Our opponents have over double the amount of GL’s because they are 3 divisions higher then us so their is absolutely no chance for us to win.
    I would like an answer about this but I don’t think I will get one and this will probably be deleted but this is not fair as what it seems like is we are being punished because CG did not update the coding for this game mode.
    My guild: Dark Half
    Opponents guild: Italy Strikes Back III
  • They won’t delete it, but they’ll likely merge it with other threads reporting bad matchmaking
  • They won’t delete it, but they’ll likely merge it with other threads reporting bad matchmaking

    But they shouldn’t do that either because this is a glitch and not just bad matchmaking. I suspect nothing will happen to the guilds affected by this glitch
  • Great new changes for tw matchmaking CG.

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  • How is it a glitch?

    They said guilds could be matched across divisions.
  • How is it a glitch?

    They said guilds could be matched across divisions.

    I didn’t see them saying that but if it’s true that’s not fair and wrong.
    So if it’s true that means smaller guilds have to set more characters and ships on defence which means less characters to use on attack which also means no chance of full clearing.
    This will completely ruin TW’s for smaller guilds as what’s the point in trying. To me this is feels like guilds who have enough GP to get the R9 pieces can for sure get it as their opponent has no chance.
    That’s another game mode ruined.
  • strafeSS wrote: »
    Goldane wrote: »
    strafeSS wrote: »
    49 teams per zone is about as much fun as a colonoscopy.

    And two recent changes are fighting each other. The nerf to non GL counters and a MM algorithm that weighs in losses. Those two don’t work together because it is going to imbalance # of GLs of opponents.

    I LOVE the increase....let's make it epic...just give us time to run it and keep the slot counts consistent per division.

    I’m guessing you’re not a guild officer. Getting 490 teams set is a PITA. And yes fighting 490 teams in 24 hours is worse. I don’t want to turn TW into conquest effort. There is no need. More isn’t always better. More is just more in this case. What was wrong with winning on efficiency with the teams we had before?

    The really annoying this is as well, a few years ago CG actually apologised for the amount of new characters we were getting and how time consuming the game turned into but now they are making this game into a full time job for officers
  • Oh mines the guild with 264m gp outshined by the 316m gp with double the gl's on all counts.
    Just looked at the rewards ingame for r8 r9 mats for a tw win and it's showing as x1 for r8 and x1 for r9 for 380m+ too 260m gp lol So even the big guilds only get x1 r8 r9 mats lmfao

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  • Oh mines the guild with 264m gp outshined by the 316m gp with double the gl's on all counts.
    Just looked at the rewards ingame for r8 r9 mats for a tw win and it's showing as x1 for r8 and x1 for r9 for 380m+ too 260m gp lol So even the big guilds only get x1 r8 r9 mats lmfao

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    That’s the second place rewards.

    If you tap the arrows either side of “second place” you’ll see the real rewards for a win. Lmfao.
  • They had better start speeding up their fixes and stop the hemorrhaging of players leaving the game. The patient is sick and needs major surgery. For some reason it seems like we got a bunch of quacks to look things over. I want to see the game continue for a very long time but lots of huge mistakes have been happening and the base is not happy.
  • Kyno wrote: »

    They will be monitoring and adjusting the new MM parameters.

    Turn the knobs the OTHER way!
    Officer in Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya, Wat & Negotiator on farm. PM to join us.
  • ObiDave54 wrote: »

    But they shouldn’t do that either because this is a glitch and not just bad matchmaking. I suspect nothing will happen to the guilds affected by this glitch

    It's not a glitch....it's a design flaw. Whatever new matchmaking system they designed looks extremely heavily at won/loss record and streaks. There is apparently very little accounting for the actual rosters of the two guilds in terms of total or average participating player GP, which makes zero sense. We were outgunned by 68 mil GP in the first one and now we have a 50 mil GP edge this one...and that's participating player GP too, no sandbagging.
  • More teams per zone sounds fun but with teams with limited counters it's not helpful to have more teams per zone in a battle of "walls" because we can now wait even longer for a tricky wall to come down
    We aren't online 24hrs a day to react to everything. I honestly question whether actual players are evert questioned about this. It seems their testing missed out on how Guilds would approach the Cpit, and I feel they now don't understand how we approach TW.
    Maybe add 12 hours to the clock for like LSTB did so we at least have more time to slog through this improved TW.
  • A big problem seems to be that there's no (or very little) iterative process in generating matches. The old matchmaking system seemed to simply line up all the guilds by participating GP and match them 1v2, 3v4 and so on down the line (checking only for whether it was a repeat match or near-repeat). I assume the new system is similar and computes some scalar (based on what factors we don't know -- last match result seems to weigh absurdly heavily) and then again lines up guilds the same way: 1v2, 3v4 and so on according to this new computed metric.

    Some form of stochastic gradient descent would improve matches significantly (for example, after the initial assignment of A vs B, randomly select another guild (let's say M, originally matched with N) and see whether A-M;B-N or A-N;B-M is a better match than A-B;M-N and switch if so. (Any of us can come up with pretty reasonable criteria for what makes a "better match"). Run through the reswapping process some number of times, and the resulting matches will be much, much better than this we have now.

    Don't know how much processing power/time this kind of matchmaking would take though; obviously, the old way and new way (if it's determined as I suspect) require far less computing resources, leaving us with this pile of poo.
  • Perhaps the devs are trying to prevent full clears, I can see that would be an interesting strat, how heavy or light on D do you go to try and clear the board?
    Officer in Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya, Wat & Negotiator on farm. PM to join us.
  • As much as i railed against the last matchup figured it wouldn't be right to not post that our matchup this time was much more realistic. Opponent still had 10 more GLs than us but i can deal with that. 120 more was a bit over the top last round.

    Hope that they really start using GL's as the first metric followed by GP and not the other way around. It's the only sensible way to do it after the nerfs.
  • Zumwan
    143 posts Member
    edited October 7
    Our guild was also screwed over in the Matchmaking algorithm.
    Our guild has 228M GP. Only 39/45 joined this TW, giving an active GP of 200M. 14 total GLs (I don't know how many joined)
    Our opponent had out of the box 50M more GP than us, and a total of 69 GLs. Again, I don't know how many joined from their guild, but if all joined they would have 78M more GP and four times the amount of GLs. We didn't stand a chance, even coming from a loss the last TW, which I understand should be taken into account as well. They've already fully cleared us, while we were only able to conquer a single (1) territory before coming across a GL wall where we don't have enough teams to beat.

    (Hyperlinks to SWGOH.GG on the previous paragraph, in case it wasn't visible)
  • Sewpot
    1790 posts Member
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    And we need more ships. I’m starting a new saying just for the devs
    For players it’s Git Gud
    For the devs it’s Git 2 Werk
  • People have lives outside the game - it's something that officers just have to take into account when trying to plan TW defense and attack. Recent changes have greatly increased the number of teams per zone across divisions, while the number of guild members has remained the same.

    In effect, guild members needs to spend more time checking the situation in TW, and zones take more time to clear.

    I would propose that the attack phase of TW is increased to a 36 hour window to compensate for this.
  • Sewpot wrote: »
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    And we need more ships. I’m starting a new saying just for the devs
    For players it’s Git Gud
    For the devs it’s Git 2 Werk

    I approve this saying
  • With more TWs here, any word on whether the matchmaking was fixed to look at guild rosters again and not just won/loss records and streaks?
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    With more TWs here, any word on whether the matchmaking was fixed to look at guild rosters again and not just won/loss records and streaks?

    It looks at many factors not just one.

    They will continue to monitor and make adjustments between rounds.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    With more TWs here, any word on whether the matchmaking was fixed to look at guild rosters again and not just won/loss records and streaks?

    It looks at many factors not just one.

    They will continue to monitor and make adjustments between rounds.

    The weighting of those factors was absolutely awful though. I'm not going through the full details of the matchmaking disparities again...it's been beat to death. However, it should go without saying that no TW match-up should ever involve a 50-70 million difference in participating GP under any matchmaking formula. That's just absurd and unacceptable.

  • The weighting of those factors was absolutely awful though. I'm not going through the full details of the matchmaking disparities again...it's been beat to death. However, it should go without saying that no TW match-up should ever involve a 50-70 million difference in participating GP under any matchmaking formula. That's just absurd and unacceptable.

    This. Solve this problem however you wish...just solve it!
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