[MEGA] Road Ahead: October 2021

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    I still haven't seen a single mention of the duplicate data disks problem that's probably a 5 minute code fix - serious bang for the buck on that one and it honestly baffles me that they can't make time to do it.
    I think they realized that it is another "Frustration" mechanic and they want us players to keep striving despite the horrible RNG of Data Disks. The fact that it's brought up every Conquest thread, it's own Thread, multiple posts on Reddit, videos on YouTube (even by top Streamers) and STILL it is not addressed shows CG and their Devs want their Customers frustrated and not happy with their product.



    On a related note, we now have players leaving en masse with the all of CG's missteps lately and lo and BEHOLD! The Gear Crunch is finally being addressed.. After being told for years it's being looked at, when it hits the Company's bottom line (a noticeable downward trend of players leaving and I suspect that the Data shows there isn't enough newer players to make up the loss or keep the Turnover ratio in check) we suddenly get Phases of Gear Relief..

    After CG's missteps:

    1. The Great Nerf
    2. Conquest 7-9 changes
    3. Territory Battle Bugs

    I don't TRUST this Company anymore.. I wish they would listen to the Community more and find that balence between making a profit and keeping their Customers/players happy...

    Still not engaged..
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.
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    Amos wrote: »
    For those people saying Conquest is still a totally viable game mode FtP:

    I've been FtP since I joined the game January 2018. I've been in a guild for about 90% of that time, and changed guilds twice to make sure I wasn't the most dedicated player there. I've logged in for at least an hour every day since I joined; there are <30 total days that I didn't get all my dailies done.

    My current roster has every legendary character except JKL, and no GL's. 5 million total power. Any GL would take me at least two years of dedicated grinding to unlock, and I've had other priorities.

    For Conquests 7-9, I calculated that you would need to generate 1591 energy to get through every battle, fight each miniboss 3 times and each end boss twice, and swap out 5 data disks. At 12 minutes per energy, that takes 19,092 minutes, or 13.26 days, out of a 14 day event.

    That's assuming you win every battle without ever losing a unit, and play diligently enough that the energy never caps out which resets the 12 minute timer. Even in that case, you would only have 4 extra battles of energy generated before the event ended.

    I assumed that with a decently built roster that matched the recommended power for Hard mode (5 million), I would reasonably be able to achieve the top 3 crates like I did in Conquests 1-6. Instead the difficulty, energy costs, and feats were tuned so high I counted myself lucky for getting the second worst crate. It simply isn't possible for me to do better without spending premium currency (crystals) on energy and stamina refreshes.
    Even with a top tier roster that doesn't flinch at the difficulty of tuned-up relic 8 enemies, there wasn't physically enough time to generate enough energy to get the best rewards without spending crystals because of having to repeat so many battles in pursuit of feats. And a roster top-heavy enough to do that isn't possible to have FtP, even if you started grinding right at launch. I know that because if it were possible, then I would be about 4 years away from a maxed out roster, accounting for new character releases, and I'm not. I'm laughably far from it, and the gap only gets bigger with every new character, relic tier, mod tier, and gear type.

    Requiring the use of premium currency, even if it is sometimes given to a player as an in-game reward, is not FtP game design.

    It is literally impossible to do remotely well in Conquest as FtP anymore. Either you're spending on refreshes, or you've already spent on a roster good enough to do well without refreshes. Adding this battle pass system only makes that more true.

    I've accepted that I'm never catching up. In a competitive game that has a business model based on microtransactions, there's always going to be a difference in the power curves of FtP and PtP. It's always going to be true that PtP will perform better and get better rewards; that's the point of competing. I don't even mind the PtW aspect of those power curves because CG has done a decent job of separating players into tiers.

    Never mind that Conquest is PvE, and therefore not a competitive game mode in the first place.

    But it bothers me how much more predatory and exploitative CG keep getting. Let's not lose perspective here! An annual subscription to a big MMO's is ~80$ a year, with additional in-game fees that are often cosmetic. CG has a tiny fraction of the content and staff that those games do. Even if we're generous about those in-game fees for the sake of this comparison, imagine ONLY spending 200$ on SWGOH a year to stay current! Instead of choosing to balance their in-game economy so that a single G12 finisher, of which you need a dozen to have even one GL, is worth 50$ US.

    If you've played ftp long enough, conquest is easily beatable. It are also won't take 2 years to get a GL if you grind. I'm 100% ftp. I have played since November 2016 with an 8 mo break around the time of the malak fiasco. So I missed Rey and slkr. I started up again about the time they announced see and jml. In that time (about a year but a tad bit more), I've finished gas, got jkl, see, jml, executor, and jmk. All without spending a penny. So it doesn't take a year to grind a GL.

    Conquest is also possible ftp. Though I use crystals to refresh to make it more manageable. It's up to you whether the added rewards are worth a few refreshes a day or not. To me they are. But even if refreshes are required, you get enough crystals from dailies to do that if needed. If you choose not to that's up to you. But to say that it's impossible is simply not true.
  • Options
    CadoaBane wrote: »
    with each road ahead the spite for the actual gamers only goes up. every design in the last couple years has been for $$ and hasnt brought anything that ive seen the average gamer ask for. we got conquest characters that they give you shards for but remove them before you get enough shards to complete so they make those chars impossible to get for average player even if they have been playing since the start of the game over 5 years ago.

    galactic legends for whales only
    conquest characters for whales only
    r9 for whales only
    omnicron and cheat mode skills for certain events for whales only.


    wheres the strategy and competitiveness without being a whale?

    Not true. If you've played for 5 yrs you should easily be able to max crate. At max crate you get the new character in 5 conquests without spending any conquest currency on them. That is achievable ftp.

    This might have been true before they came up with the horrible idea of monetizing the Conquest with a battle pass. I have also been playing for about 5 years, the last 4 of them f2p, and have 2 GLs. So far I always got the max crate and was among the first players who unlocked the new Conquest characters. Now this will never happen again because even if I still manage to get the red crate again, those with a battle pass will receive additional shards and even a unique title. That takes away a lot of motivation from me to spend the same amount of time in the game as before, especially when there's not even an option to buy the pass with crystals instead of direct money.

    What other people get doesn't affect what is possible for you. If it did, this isn't the game for you. There's whales in my shard that had jmk day 1. But that had little effect on how long it took me to get him ftp.

    Conquest is no different. Yes the feats suck but are still possible. I wish they were less grindy but it doesn't make it impossible.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.

    Good to know. And what about the ships? I don't think it should affect them, but all other ability upgrades do.
  • Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.

    Good to know. And what about the ships? I don't think it should affect them, but all other ability upgrades do.

    If I had to guess, it'll affect gp and likely anything that gp effects. You may just have to consider that when deciding if have use for a character in one game mode it worth the bloat in other game modes. This is resource management after all
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.

    Good to know. And what about the ships? I don't think it should affect them, but all other ability upgrades do.

    That didnt directly come up, so I will specifically get this in the mix too.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.

    Good to know. And what about the ships? I don't think it should affect them, but all other ability upgrades do.

    If I had to guess, it'll affect gp and likely anything that gp effects. You may just have to consider that when deciding if have use for a character in one game mode it worth the bloat in other game modes. This is resource management after all

    The general sense was around figuring out how to not have that happen. So while we may see it in GP, it may not be calculated when outside of the specific game mode it pertains to.
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    A question just occured to me, how will omicrons affect GP and ships? If they increase GP, it will be literally useless bloat everywhere except for the dedicated mode. If they affect ship stats, they will kinda bleed beyond their mode.

    This was brought up, and they are discussing how they will handle this in calculations like matchmaking.

    Good to know. And what about the ships? I don't think it should affect them, but all other ability upgrades do.

    If I had to guess, it'll affect gp and likely anything that gp effects. You may just have to consider that when deciding if have use for a character in one game mode it worth the bloat in other game modes. This is resource management after all

    The general sense was around figuring out how to not have that happen. So while we may see it in GP, it may not be calculated when outside of the specific game mode it pertains to.

    That seems like a big ask. Assuming different omicrons will affect different game modes, it sounds like a programming nightmare to get it to only affect those game modes.

    Not to mention there are game modes where we want the extra gp to count (tb and tw).

    Personally, I'd rather deal with the potential matchmaking consequences of putting an omicron on a character for a specific game mode than dealing with the potential bugs that will undoubtedly be created if CG tries to negate these effects.
  • Options
    I have played since November 2016 with an 8 mo break around the time of the malak fiasco. So I missed Rey and slkr. I started up again about the time they announced see and jml. In that time (about a year but a tad bit more), I've finished gas, got jkl, see, jml, executor, and jmk.

    Teach us your secrets!
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    I don’t like it because I’m never going to spend money in the game but I do like the way it’s set out. Clear in what you get for your money so you can plan in advance and you know what your paying for so for me, fair play. Hoping to see ships loads soon though.
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    Ripperpa wrote: »
    I have played since November 2016 with an 8 mo break around the time of the malak fiasco. So I missed Rey and slkr. I started up again about the time they announced see and jml. In that time (about a year but a tad bit more), I've finished gas, got jkl, see, jml, executor, and jmk.

    Teach us your secrets!

    My guess is just that you need reasonable good resources management, and active daily as much as possible. I am 100% f2p too since Dec 2015, I probably skipped only a week or 2 in total. I complete conquests with ease as I have all 6 GLs and executor.

  • DinoMight
    57 posts Member
    edited November 2021
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    I don’t like it because I’m never going to spend money in the game but I do like the way it’s set out. Clear in what you get for your money so you can plan in advance and you know what your paying for so for me, fair play. Hoping to see ships loads soon though.

    Until they nerf half the roster you worked to build for over a year...

    The problem is that the grind is so long (understandable - it is a collection game, with new content being practically non-existent these days) that you have to plan your resource management with specific targets in mind over the span of months. I remember planning things 6 months at a time (even beyond, when I just started). The game has changed so much in the last 6 months, and it turns out all that planning and careful resource management amounted to little more than a hill of beans. You see what resources you get for what cost, but the real "valuation" is in assessing how much quicker it gets you to your goal, which is building the roster. The problem is that you don't know whether that roster, which has value now, will have similar value by the time you attain it.

    Why bother working towards a long term goal when the goalposts can shift at any time?

    Keep up this pattern, and at some point, people will just get off the hamster wheel.
  • Mugz722
    21 posts Member
    edited November 2021
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    So CG says they are listening to us and changed conquest based on our input. I would like to know who gave them this inputthat they so called listening to. I don’t really know anyone that think adding the battle pass solved anything. Don’t get me wrong I have nothing against the battle pass as most games have them, but the pass is not a solution!
  • Options
    I dont think any normal player would make conquest like these.. probably whales that have time and money.. i work 11 hours a day, and i dont have time to reach last box..
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    I’m so disappointed - you snuck mode ruining feats and changes into normal and easy conquest. Making it essentially impossible for any f2p people to reasonably max conquest. We need an explanation, why the lack of communication and why make the changes in general? You’ll make us gear up a faction strictly because the people who do hard mode have a chance to unlock boba before a year from now…you’ve upset a good bit of your user base and we deserve to hear why.
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    Are the boba shards additional to ones you'd find in scavenger shop so you'd get an extra 20 per conquest? So you don't need to red box every one next 3 conquests?
  • Ultra
    11586 posts Moderator
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    Sneekypete wrote: »
    Are the boba shards additional to ones you'd find in scavenger shop so you'd get an extra 20 per conquest? So you don't need to red box every one next 3 conquests?

    Yes, and Yes
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    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    Sneekypete wrote: »
    Are the boba shards additional to ones you'd find in scavenger shop so you'd get an extra 20 per conquest? So you don't need to red box every one next 3 conquests?

    Correct, you could not max 1 time and buy the pass 2x, to make up the 25 shard difference. Or not max 2 times and buy all 3 passes, to make up the 50 shard difference.
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    Zumwan wrote: »
    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?

    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
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    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful

    I don't see a feat reduction in Normal conquest.

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    Mugz722 wrote: »
    So CG says they are listening to us and changed conquest based on our input. I would like to know who gave them this inputthat they so called listening to. I don’t really know anyone that think adding the battle pass solved anything. Don’t get me wrong I have nothing against the battle pass as most games have them, but the pass is not a solution!

    The pass is totally a solution to a problem CG created. If you are not an 8 million gp whale they don't want you finishing conquest for free. You either buy a better roster or you buy the 30$ pass if you want the shiny new meta characters.
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    Kyno wrote: »
    Sneekypete wrote: »
    Are the boba shards additional to ones you'd find in scavenger shop so you'd get an extra 20 per conquest? So you don't need to red box every one next 3 conquests?

    Correct, you could not max 1 time and buy the pass 2x, to make up the 25 shard difference. Or not max 2 times and buy all 3 passes, to make up the 50 shard difference.

    Awesome thanks for clarification!
  • zatho
    747 posts Member
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    Zumwan wrote: »
    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?

    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful

    That was a lie from CG, adding to the endless list from the past. They promised less emphasis on feats. But while the number of feats has been reduced, the number of battles to complete the feats probably even increased.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    zatho wrote: »
    Zumwan wrote: »
    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?

    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful

    That was a lie from CG, adding to the endless list from the past. They promised less emphasis on feats. But while the number of feats has been reduced, the number of battles to complete the feats probably even increased.

    The breakdown I saw, showed a lower total battle count for feats, and with the cross over it may technically be even lower than that.
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    The breakdown I saw, showed a lower total battle count for feats, and with the cross over it may technically be even lower than that.

    Is that the case for Normal mode as well?
  • zatho
    747 posts Member
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    Kyno wrote: »
    zatho wrote: »
    Zumwan wrote: »
    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?

    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful

    That was a lie from CG, adding to the endless list from the past. They promised less emphasis on feats. But while the number of feats has been reduced, the number of battles to complete the feats probably even increased.

    The breakdown I saw, showed a lower total battle count for feats, and with the cross over it may technically be even lower than that.

    Lower battle count for the average player or only for those with highly developed scoundrels and bounty hunters? I think some player may save some battles but most players need more to complete
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
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    zatho wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatho wrote: »
    Zumwan wrote: »
    It was communicated that the idea was to make Conquest have less emphasis on feats and more on battle nodes. There was a big increase on the amount of battle nodes. In Normal Mode, at least, the amount of feats hasn't changed. If anything, we now need more battles than before to complete the feats (for example, apply evasion down 30 times in Sector 1 instead of apply Daze 20 times in Sector 4 or 5 the previous time around).
    Can we get some more energy so us F2P players (that won't be buying the Conquest Pass +) can play more of a game mode we enjoy, and make meaningful progress in it?

    Feats have reduced … but they’re more painful

    That was a lie from CG, adding to the endless list from the past. They promised less emphasis on feats. But while the number of feats has been reduced, the number of battles to complete the feats probably even increased.

    The breakdown I saw, showed a lower total battle count for feats, and with the cross over it may technically be even lower than that.

    Lower battle count for the average player or only for those with highly developed scoundrels and bounty hunters? I think some player may save some battles but most players need more to complete

    The battle count was literally a breakdown of feats and how many battles to complete each one, as an individual things for both this set and 7-9.

    This has nothing to do with a players roster.
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