Omicron Ability Update: Qui-Gon Jinn

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  • Ultra
    8709 posts Moderator
    Troopers might still be able to counter the entire team even with the offense boost to JKA, but without JKA, the QGJ omicron does nothing vs troopers
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Troopers might still be able to counter the entire team even with the offense boost to JKA, but without JKA, the QGJ omicron does nothing vs troopers

    Aayla could finally come in clutch with her counter attacks here 🤣.
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  • May have missed something, but won't troopers be able to counter this?

    Why would Troopers counter this?
    Sorry for the newb question, I did take a significant time away from the game, and just trying to catch up now.
  • May have missed something, but won't troopers be able to counter this?

    Why would Troopers counter this?
    Sorry for the newb question, I did take a significant time away from the game, and just trying to catch up now.

    General Veers Leader ability states ‘Imperial Trooper allies … gain 10% Turn Meter whenever they gain a buff.’ and his Unique Zeta states that ‘ Whenever an enemy is defeated while Veers is active, Imperial Trooper allies gain Offense Up for 2 turns, gain 50% Turn Meter, and recover 10% Protection.’
    This created a turn meter train, where the enemy would rarely take a turn.

    Now, with Piett’s Unique Zeta: ‘Whenever an Empire ally begins a turn or attacks out of turn, all Empire allies gain a stack of The Emperor's Trap until the start of the next enemy turn, non-Empire ally's turn, or the end of battle. The Emperor's Trap can't be copied, dispelled, or prevented.’
    So now Troopers under Veers L, with Piett, gain a minimum of 1 buff per turn. Usually more, especially with Range Trooper on the team, as his unique states ‘While Range Trooper is active, Imperial Trooper allies have +50% chance to call another buffed Imperial Trooper ally to Assist when they use an ability during their turn, doing 20% less damage.’
    So usually Imperial Troopers gain so many buffs, that their turn meter train is endless. The enemy would rarely get a turn. So when QGJ dies, nothing changes … unless JKA is on the team. Whenever another ally falls below 50% health, or is defeated, JKA takes a bonus turn. Then, with all the bonus offence from QGJ’s omicron Lead, he will one shot a character, or if his special is available, he will one shot your whole team. So … if there is no JKA or no Aayla (she could counter attack and kill), Troopers will counter QGJ omicron lead. But … if you have a very fast Thrawn with his unique zeta, he could fracture JKA / Aayla, and then he can’t get a bonus turn, as his speed is set to 0, stopping him from attacking. So … Troopers ft. Thrawn could do it. If Thrawn went 1st, fractured JKA, and the Trooper train started, Thrawn wouldn’t get another turn, so fracture won’t expire, and JKA therefore won’t get a turn, so you could potentially win the battle like that … unless they have both Aayla and JKA. You could fracture JKA, avoid AoEs, target JKA, the other 2, then Qui-Gon, building up stacks of Emperor’s Trap (which grants bonus offence), then kill off JKA and the other 2, before one shotting Aayla so she doesn’t counter.
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  • Kill qgj with the aoe of piett and jka will be useless.
  • Jos33680 wrote: »
    Kill qgj with the aoe of piett and jka will be useless.

    How? JKA will still take a bonus turn, as Daze doesn’t stop that. Unless you think taking Anakin to 1%, then killing Qui-Gon and Anakin with the AoE. But we don’t yet know the order of operations there yet. Will the health/prot restore come 1st, or will other Jedi allies become defeatable first.
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  • Jos33680 wrote: »
    Kill qgj with the aoe of piett and jka will be useless.

    How? JKA will still take a bonus turn, as Daze doesn’t stop that. Unless you think taking Anakin to 1%, then killing Qui-Gon and Anakin with the AoE. But we don’t yet know the order of operations there yet. Will the health/prot restore come 1st, or will other Jedi allies become defeatable first.

    Piett’s AoE Zeta inflicts Fear on all enemies if it defeats an enemy, which would stop JKA from taking his bonus turn.
  • ... .

    Thank you for taking your time to give such a detailed answer. I've learnt a lot from you.
  • TargetEadu wrote: »
    Jos33680 wrote: »
    Kill qgj with the aoe of piett and jka will be useless.

    How? JKA will still take a bonus turn, as Daze doesn’t stop that. Unless you think taking Anakin to 1%, then killing Qui-Gon and Anakin with the AoE. But we don’t yet know the order of operations there yet. Will the health/prot restore come 1st, or will other Jedi allies become defeatable first.

    Piett’s AoE Zeta inflicts Fear on all enemies if it defeats an enemy, which would stop JKA from taking his bonus turn.

    I forgot that. I don’t have Troopers geared up at all, but I always loved their mechanics.
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  • Just one more question, please. Why is Imp Troopers not a team in arena, if they're so good that they barely let the opponent take a turn?
    All I see around me is Padme teams, GAS teams, DR, and GLs.
  • Padme teams have JKA to interrupt the train and protection up prevents debuffs.

    DR is too fast for them usually, malak can interrupt the train, and fear is bad for them.

    Can't get a kill against GAS until too late and his counters are too much to withstand.

    Troopers have heaps of uses, but they are not a beat all team. Some trooper+other combos and tactics can probably beat any of those teams though.
  • TheChild_eats_eggs1
    1373 posts Member
    edited December 2021
    Just one more question, please. Why is Imp Troopers not a team in arena, if they're so good that they barely let the opponent take a turn?
    All I see around me is Padme teams, GAS teams, DR, and GLs.
    Padme teams have JKA to interrupt the train and protection up prevents debuffs.

    DR is too fast for them usually, malak can interrupt the train, and fear is bad for them.

    Can't get a kill against GAS until too late and his counters are too much to withstand.

    Troopers have heaps of uses, but they are not a beat all team. Some trooper+other combos and tactics can probably beat any of those teams though.

    As Winterwolves said. Also, as you are a returning player, your arena shard is likely decently aged. This has given players time to work to get better teams.
    Padmé's main problem is actually the unique zeta, which grants undispellable protection up (40%) to an ally when an enemy attacks them out of turn. This is very common in Imperial Troopers (Veers AoE, Piett Basic, Range Unique, Gideon TM reset etc.). JKA can easily be targeted 1st / 2nd to remove the problem of him ASAP.
    DR can be countered by IT, but with very good modding. If you mod Piett for speed, he can outrun DRs, and then start the TM train. Usually, BSF is killed 1st, then DR, Marauder/HK/SET, and Malak is left for last. He can make things tricky, but it can be overcome. Fear is bad for them, but only if you AoE.
    GAS teams -- just like Winterwolves said.
    GLs are GLs. SEE used to be countered by Troopers before The Great Nerf of 2021.

    Also, ask as much as you want. We're here to help.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • Just one more question, please. Why is Imp Troopers not a team in arena, if they're so good that they barely let the opponent take a turn?
    All I see around me is Padme teams, GAS teams, DR, and GLs.
    Padme teams have JKA to interrupt the train and protection up prevents debuffs.

    DR is too fast for them usually, malak can interrupt the train, and fear is bad for them.

    Can't get a kill against GAS until too late and his counters are too much to withstand.

    Troopers have heaps of uses, but they are not a beat all team. Some trooper+other combos and tactics can probably beat any of those teams though.

    As Winterwolves said. Also, as you are a returning player, your arena shard is likely decently aged. This has given players time to work to get better teams.
    Padmé's main problem is actually the unique zeta, which grants undispellable protection up (40%) to an ally when an enemy attacks them out of turn. This is very common in Imperial Troopers (Veers AoE, Piett Basic, Range Unique, Gideon TM reset etc.). JKA can easily be targeted 1st / 2nd to remove the problem of him ASAP.
    DR can be countered by IT, but with very good modding. If you mod Piett for speed, he can outrun DRs, and then start the TM train. Usually, BSF is killed 1st, then DR, Marauder/HK/SET, and Malak is left for last. He can make things tricky, but it can be overcome. Fear is bad for them, but only if you AoE.
    GAS teams -- just like Winterwolves said.
    GLs are GLs. SEE used to be countered by Troopers before The Great Nerf of 2021.

    Also, ask as much as you want. We're here to help.

    I’ll just add - IT can beat these teams, but it required that specific planning and kill order, which the AI is really bad at. It can catch players off guard sometimes, but traditionally IT is very meh on Defense.
  • Hey! Could someone help me understand what the omicron says a bit better? English is my 2nd language and I dont want to get it wrong. When it says "Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed", does that include Qui Gon getting offense equal to 30 times his speed? Or is that just for the allies but no him. Thanks a lot!!
  • Sebek
    2375 posts Member
    Uldred wrote: »
    Hey! Could someone help me understand what the omicron says a bit better? English is my 2nd language and I dont want to get it wrong. When it says "Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed", does that include Qui Gon getting offense equal to 30 times his speed? Or is that just for the allies but no him. Thanks a lot!!

    Yes, it includes Qui-Gon.
    Remember: reality is an illusion. The universe is a hologram. Buy gold. Bye!
  • Uldred wrote: »
    Hey! Could someone help me understand what the omicron says a bit better? English is my 2nd language and I dont want to get it wrong. When it says "Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed", does that include Qui Gon getting offense equal to 30 times his speed? Or is that just for the allies but no him. Thanks a lot!!

    haha. English is my 1st language but me, and others who have english as their 1st language, struggle a lot with CG-English.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • Sebek
    2375 posts Member
    Uldred wrote: »
    Hey! Could someone help me understand what the omicron says a bit better? English is my 2nd language and I dont want to get it wrong. When it says "Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed", does that include Qui Gon getting offense equal to 30 times his speed? Or is that just for the allies but no him. Thanks a lot!!

    haha. English is my 1st language but me, and others who have english as their 1st language, struggle a lot with CG-English.

    Oh come on, it's not that bad.
    Remember: reality is an illusion. The universe is a hologram. Buy gold. Bye!
  • “All allies” or “allies” or “[insert faction here] allies” always includes the character that the ability has (assuming that they are a member of the effected faction). “All other allies” or similar will not.

    Of course, QGJ lead still says “Jedi allies can’t be defeated” which as written includes QGJ himself… so sometimes the description is just wrong.
  • Sebek wrote: »
    Uldred wrote: »
    Hey! Could someone help me understand what the omicron says a bit better? English is my 2nd language and I dont want to get it wrong. When it says "Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed", does that include Qui Gon getting offense equal to 30 times his speed? Or is that just for the allies but no him. Thanks a lot!!

    haha. English is my 1st language but me, and others who have english as their 1st language, struggle a lot with CG-English.

    Oh come on, it's not that bad.
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    “All allies” or “allies” or “[insert faction here] allies” always includes the character that the ability has (assuming that they are a member of the effected faction). “All other allies” or similar will not.

    Of course, QGJ lead still says “Jedi allies can’t be defeated” which as written includes QGJ himself… so sometimes the description is just wrong.

    Dw that was just a joke.
    My discord - BabyYoda#4470 My swgoh.gg - https://swgoh.gg/p/648565123/
  • it doesnt specify GL on opp team i feel like GL on opp shouldn't be able kill jedis if QGJ hqas his omi
  • The added Omicron text is confusing because of the "instead", which could easily be interpreted as negating the entire non-GA portion of the text.

    I don't think that's the case, but please update the language to be more specific.
  • Quoted Leader Ability:
    Leader - AGILITY TRAINING
    Old Final Text (ZETA): Jedi allies have +30 Speed, gain Offense equal to 3 times their Speed, and gain Foresight for 2 turns at the start of each encounter and whenever any unit is defeated.

    New Final Text (ZETA/OMICRON): Jedi allies have +30 Speed, gain Offense equal to 3 times their Speed, and gain Foresight for 2 turns at the start of each encounter and whenever any unit is defeated.

    While in Grand Arenas: Jedi allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed, doubled while they have Foresight. At the start of battle if there are no Galactic Legends and all allies are Jedi, Jedi allies can't be defeated if Qui-Gon Jinn is active. Qui-Gon Jinn can't gain Damage Immunity or Stealth and he can't be revived. When Qui-Gon Jinn is defeated, all Jedi allies recover 100% Health and Protection and gain 400% of Qui-Gon-Jinn's Offense for 2 turns.

    QGJ Change Announcement:

    “ UNIT - Fixed an issue in which Qui-Gon Jinn would incorrectly grant allies Offense while his Speed to Offense bonus was still active rather than after Speed to Offense expires upon being defeated.”

    Current QGJ Leader from In-Game:

    While in Grand Arenas: At the start of battle if there are no Galactic Legends and all allies are Jedi, all other allies instead gain Offense equal to 30 times their Speed, doubled while they have Foresight, and can't be defeated if Qui-Gon Jinn is active. Qui-Gon Jinn can't gain Damage Immunity or Stealth and he can't be revived. When Qui-Gon Jinn is defeated, all Jedi allies recover 100% Health and Protection and gain 400% of Qui-Gon-Jinn's Offense for 2 turns.

    … that’s not a bug, that’s a bait and switch the size of a small moon.
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